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Brexit | OT3 | A Feast for Crows

O

oilvomer

Member
*Splinter said:
Would that "bridging loan" have been a sure/permanent fix though?
Click to expand...

Obviously I am only privy to what is in the public domain, but it was to allow Monarch to restructure their debts, however if you listen to Chris Graylings conference speech it looks to me he was happy to allow them to fail as he noted that their failure was because of EasyJet and Fly2be success, so they would hoover up Monarchs left overs, so I expect that was why the loan was refused
 
T

TimmmV

Member
RenditMan said:
An airline the size of Monarch getting brought down by a measly £50 million is no-ones fault but Monarchs.

How do you feel about Chocolate manufacturing jobs getting outbid by other EU manufacturing under cutting it if we're tit for tatting...
Click to expand...

If you're just going to hand wave away legitimate problems then surely chocolate manufacturing jobs getting brought down by measly undercutting is no one's fault but the chocolate manufacturers?

Huw_Dawson said:
Would you therefore confirm that you accept that Monarch being brought down by the raising in costs due to Brexit is a real-world example of Brexit causing the collapse of a company to the tune of several thousand jobs and many thousands of customers losing their flights?

After all, even if you think Monarch was vulnerable and their vulnerability was their own fault, the rise in costs is what killed them.
Click to expand...

You don't understand Huw, now all those jobless people get to be poor free men, instead of slightly less poor servants

oilvomer said:
also worth noting Monarch went at the last minute to the Goverment to ask for a bridging loan, this was refused... so if we want to blame anyone look squarely at number 10, which I find odd as they needed 165 million, yet it has cost tax payers payers 60 million to bring everyone home, would of made fiscal sense to give the loan to protect all those jobs, guess Monarch should of pretended to be a bank
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Not necessarily - if the government didn't think Monarch would be paying that loan back again then taking the £60m loss seems a sensible decision
 
C

Camp Freddie

Member
RenditMan said:
An airline the size of Monarch getting brought down by a measly £50 million is no-ones fault but Monarchs.

How do you feel about Chocolate manufacturing jobs getting outbid by other EU manufacturing under cutting it if we're tit for tatting...
Click to expand...

I am sure that protectionist tariffs on foreign chocolate are definitely something we'll do after Brexit. The Tories are famously the party of protectionism and support for UK manufacturing jobs. If Freddo Frogs have to go up by another 5p then it's a small price to pay for taking back control.

I suppose that destroying the value of the pound and making everyone poorer does technically raise the competitiveness of UK chocolate exports, but I can't help feeling that the losses suffered by literally everyone outweigh the gains that might accrue to the people of Bournville.
Plus Freddo Frog price inflation is fucking insane already.
 
O

oilvomer

Member
Wrong thread I think, but oh he is oh so clever. BJ speech was right where he needs it, not challenging and appealing to those who will make him the next PM, acting the fool, the PM should hire his speech writer. if he makes the ballot he romps home imo
 
J

jelly

Member
So the Telegraph is running with David Davis retiring in 2019 and leaving the transition to Boris.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/02/david-davis-plans-retire-brexit-secretary-uk-leaves-eu-2019/

David Davis plans to retire in 2019 and leave Boris Johnson to steer the UK through the transitional period, The Telegraph can reveal.
The Brexit secretary told friends that Michel Barnier, the EU's chief negotiator, "needs this to work more than I do" because he plans to step aside in June 2019 whereas Mr Barnier will still be in post. 
Mr Davis believes Brexit will be his "last big job", friends told this newspaper.
Meanwhile, Boris Johnson told Conservative activists that Brussels believes Britain will "bottle it" over Brexit.
The Foreign Secretary told a fringe meeting at the party conference that some EU leaders believe Britain will lose its nerve during the Brexit negotiations and try to cancel Article 50.
Click to expand...
 
A

Acorn

Member
Zaph said:
The Brexit secretary told friends that Michel Barnier, the EU's chief negotiator, "needs this to work more than I do"

These people are exactly what you think they are.
Click to expand...
Lol

I don't know what's more scary, DD actually believing that or leaking it as a tactic.
 
J

Jonnax

Member
RenditMan said:
An airline the size of Monarch getting brought down by a measly £50 million is no-ones fault but Monarchs.

How do you feel about Chocolate manufacturing jobs getting outbid by other EU manufacturing under cutting it if we're tit for tatting...
Click to expand...

Measly 50 million? In what world do you live in where that's a measly amount?

So you think that Chocolate manufacturing jobs are going to reappear in the UK after Brexit?

Anyway. It's clear that you don't want to to answer anyone who quoted you about what your supposed problems and issues were with the EU.
I wonder why.....
NwTB9JR.png

zsxB281.jpg


NwTB9JR.png
Click to expand...
 
R

RenditMan

Banned
TimmmV said:
If you're just going to hand wave away legitimate problems then surely chocolate manufacturing jobs getting brought down by measly undercutting is no one's fault but the chocolate manufacturers?



You don't understand Huw, now all those jobless people get to be poor free men, instead of slightly less poor servants



Not necessarily - if the government didn't think Monarch would be paying that loan back again then taking the £60m loss seems a sensible decision
Click to expand...

I'm not hand waving anything, but if we're going to blame a multi billion pound company going down over market fluctuations that can happen anytime for anything then a tit for tat approach needed.

Ryanair only recently cost itself untold millions due to incompetence, it's not a long stretch that the same is happening there. Brexit is a convenient excuse for directors looking to protect their reputation.
 
R

RenditMan

Banned
Jonnax said:
Measly 50 million? In what world do you live in where that's a measly amount?

So you think that Chocolate manufacturing jobs are going to reappear in the UK after Brexit?

Anyway. It's clear that you don't want to to answer anyone who quoted you about what your supposed problems and issues were with the EU.
I wonder why.....
Click to expand...

Don't kid yourself, Eastern European governments are all over our manufacturers courting tales of minimal employment regulations and bargain basement wages and there's sod all we can do about it. Until recently these very economies were dragging down the value of the euro making us look even less competitive. We need to accept we are a competing currency and behave as such.
 
T

TeddyBoy

Member
RenditMan said:
Don't kid yourself, Eastern European governments are all over our manufacturers courting tales of minimal employment regulations and bargain basement wages and there's sod all we can do about it. Until recently these very economies were dragging down the value of the euro making us look even less competitive. We need to accept we are a competing currency and behave as such.
Click to expand...

I don't want to dogpile and I can't find stats to back this up quickly but isn't this completely wrong?

Eastern European countries are finding their internal manufacturing jobs getting drastically reduced as they fail to modernise to industrial standards and qualities available in the larger Western economies. So much so that what industries they do maintain are still struggling as they have emigration as their more talented workers move West to use the same skills for better pay.

I'm sorry Rendit but this post is wrong.
 
J

Joni

Member
Those crazy unemployed immigrants that are stealing all the jobs are also staying in their own country stealing industries there.
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
The classic job stealing immigrant who also simultaneously is lazy and a burden on benefits. While at the same time stealing doctors and nurses jobs and simultaneously being a burden to the NHS.
 
S

Septy

Member
RenditMan said:
Don't kid yourself, Eastern European governments are all over our manufacturers courting tales of minimal employment regulations and bargain basement wages and there's sod all we can do about it. Until recently these very economies were dragging down the value of the euro making us look even less competitive. We need to accept we are a competing currency and behave as such.
Click to expand...

Most Eastern European countries are not in the Euro. They have maintained their own currencies. Only a few of the post 2004 entrants have joined the Eurozone and they're the relatively small ones.
 
T

TimmmV

Member
RenditMan said:
I'm not hand waving anything, but if we're going to blame a multi billion pound company going down over market fluctuations that can happen anytime for anything then a tit for tat approach needed.

Ryanair only recently cost itself untold millions due to incompetence, it's not a long stretch that the same is happening there. Brexit is a convenient excuse for directors looking to protect their reputation.
Click to expand...

"market fluctuations that can happen anytime for anything"

sterling-poud-timeline-brexitedit.jpg


The value of sterling vs the dollar fell 10%, overnight!, these things don't just happen unless there is a huge economic shock! And obviously, a total 19% fall in the value of £ is going to make their ability to buy fuel much, much harder.

It's entirely reasonable that a huge jump in a businesses costs could suddenly turn a profitable company into a huge loss making one. Sure, you could argue that they were overly exposed to the risk of currency fluctuations - but the people who voted to leave were still the people who directly caused that fluctuation to happen!
 
A

avaya

Member
Manufacturing (all) is c.9% of jobs. This is a service economy. Manufacturing isn't going to employ people in the long run. These jobs are being automated away.

What's more there is zero evidenced from peer reviewed studies that EU immigration (which we had total fucking control over) has had a negative impact on wages.

The world is globalised. Deal with it.

But let's not pretend this is actually about economics or anything based in objective reality. This is about how a certain group "feel" about how things should be. These people are reprehensible.

Olof Palme's 60s speech rings true today as it did decades ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3HK8ubv7Mg
 
J

jimbobsmells

Member
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Hazzuh said:
Not really, you can't play a 30 second clip of her looking great on the news if she is coughing during every line
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No, but you get the sympathy and didn't she do well considering stuff.


That's a fucking victory for this government.
 
T

theaface

Member
jelly said:
The Brexit secretary told friends that Michel Barnier, the EU's chief negotiator, "needs this to work more than I do" because he plans to step aside in June 2019 whereas Mr Barnier will still be in post.
Click to expand...

Funny, I thought DD was supposed to be representing the interests of the country as opposed to just himself.
 
D

Don Draper's Hat

Member
She's completely lost the plot since that happened. She can't find her voice, keeps coughing. The crowd is giving her a standing ovation for everything she says to give her time to recover. Classic.
 
P

Par Score

Member
This is the most excruciating bit of public speaking I've ever seen.

The new high bar for political car crash TV. It's brilliant.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
Ugh, I do feel sorry for her, not for her politics, but I can't imagine how shit that must be to be up there with a coughing fit...
 
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