"Like anyone will ever use this, lets just phone it in and go home, it's Friday"
sounds British to me
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Brexit | OT3 | A Feast for Crows
- Thread starter theaface
- Start date
"Like anyone will ever use this, lets just phone it in and go home, it's Friday"
sounds British to me
I am getting more and more of the opinion there is no negotiation to be done here, either we accept the EU are not going to cave and deal with the fall out from the Daily Mail or walk away and deal with the fall out.... (economy crashes)
Honestly it is so fucking simple, either give the EU what they want, or walk away, how many times do our dip shit politicians need to be told the same line over and over.
Show them the fucking money!
Honestly it is so fucking simple, either give the EU what they want, or walk away, how many times do our dip shit politicians need to be told the same line over and over.
Show them the fucking money!
PJV3
Member
It was written to keep people like Farage happy if I remember correctly.
Are they still trying that? Are they trying to beat Cheetos record on how many times they have to be told "no, we're not doing that"?
While that would have been a smart thing to do right from the beginning, things have changed since then. May's lost all authority, and I can't imagine Brussels trusts that she has the ability to get any deal through Parliament anymore. If she showed them the money, then the hard Brexit wing of the Tory Party would go nuclear in very quick time and try to replace her. Such a deal might actually get through Parliament, but May would have to break the Tory Party apart to do it, and I don't think she's going to pull a Peel.
On the other hand, any acts that might bolster her authority, like sacking Boris, would also see her getting replaced, probably by Boris himself.
The Brexit negotiations remind me more and more of the Syriza - EU negotiations.
Syriza also constantly tried to get deals that just werent available and had to take their country literally to the cliffs edge to come to a sensible agreement that was actually possible.
Which was coincidentally just about the deal that the European Union wanted to offer.
Magic Money Tree strikes again.
So, they're finally preparing for a no deal scenario. Way too late, and it's only happening to stop Tory rebels, but at least there's some preparation right? Now they just need to deliver on an entirely new IT system to deal with a mammoth increase in customs checks in just over a years time. Easy.
So, they're finally preparing for a no deal scenario. Way too late, and it's only happening to stop Tory rebels, but at least there's some preparation right? Now they just need to deliver on an entirely new IT system to deal with a mammoth increase in customs checks in just over a years time. Easy.
I wonder if their "plan" is still to make the UK (well, England) in to a tax haven to try and stop businesses moving away following no deal. Which is flawed on so many levels, not least because it will never work when businesses know that will be instantly reversed the moment Corbyn gets in. And if Brexit voters thought public services were stretched now, then..
SuperBowser
Member
this is just depressing.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
It's funny because the only excuse brexiteers had for wanting to leave apart from immigration was the "I'm tired of politicians only working for the rich and corporations".
Meanwhile Mays government is making contingencies to literally bow down to the rich and corporations just to keep the economy from failing.
Why are people stupid?
TeamLeftMatch
Member
Welp, that probably makes my decision for me. I'm assuming this means no protections for EU residents.
There's a potential buyer for Northern Ireland?!
JonnyDBrit
Member
Yes, though they'd be paying in Euros.
It is unlikely that it would be able to keep all those advantages it had.
Trump Golf Resort could be so big.
PJV3
Member
I don't know, there doesn't seem to be any mechanism for the rest of the EU to do that, it's going to go to the courts probably.
Unless something has changed since I last heard, all sides are using the vagueness to push their arguments.
Except that the EU plans for Greece are complete bollocks, which was the reason that the IMF essentially wanted out. Of course it was only ever going to end up the way they wanted, since the only options for the Greek government is to go bankrupt or do exactly as they are told.
With the Brexit negotiations, the EU actually has common sense on their side. On the other hand, the current UK government would likely take the nuclear option instead of having to reach a compromise. (For all the the shit people give Syriza, they ended up doing what they thought was the only common sense choice at the end)
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Not even fictional Harold Saxon fucked up the Prime Minister position as bad as May has. Shes desperate to hold on because without Brexit her premiership will be nothing but a seat warmer for the next PM.
PdotMichael
Banned
He got a worse deal though, because he forgot that any Greece plans also must take account that it must go through all Euro countries.
A mistake the UK is still doing which treats Brexit like a domestic problem.
I think you guys are being unfairly harsh on May here.... it is about bloody time we prepped for worst case scenario, a competent Gov would of done this day one....
I presume the money will come from not having to pay a divorce bill
Mp's will never vote to stop article 50 as many of them reside in leave voting areas, and their own interest will be at the fore front of their minds here
I presume the money will come from not having to pay a divorce bill
Mp's will never vote to stop article 50 as many of them reside in leave voting areas, and their own interest will be at the fore front of their minds here
Dirtyshubb
Member
This, in an ideal world, would be the start of changing the publics opinion enough for calls to cancel brexit.
We have already started the media blitz for everything going wrong with brexit so now start focusing on hidden documents that shows we do have an out and how the selfish, party over country Tories are screwing the country over.
With the Tories being a complete embarrassment and making no progress it will be easier to say 'we aren't going to be able to leave on good terms, we will be fucked, we need to cancel brexit now we all know how terrible it will be'.
PJV3
Member
Wasn't it more about politics at a national level than the EU(I agree it made things pointlessly harder for Greece) governments pushing austerity on their own people just weren't interested in helping them out.
The first deal the EU offered was much better than what Greece got because they pointlessly demanded a debt cut which just wasn't realistic at the time. Not only did they get a worse deal but also played their little game until greece was literally about to the default.
What i'm saying is that May is playing a similiar game where all goodwill on the EU is largely used by now and the well is already very poisened.
Both Syriza and the Tory party played (or incase of the Torys are still playing) for a domestic audience without acknowledging political realities in other countries.
Precisly what i'm saying.
It might be too vague in general, but the article has a clear end date. There is nothing on withdrawing the article, only the initial announcement.
The European Commission has also asked to include a firm statement confirming this into the Brexit negotiations.
It is easy to blame the European Union when all the debts for which Greece needed that settlement were to the International Monetary Fund. It wanted the European Union to drop all Greek debts so it could be repaid. That it is also why it didn't want to be part of the plans, they would have needed to wait for their repayments.
PJV3
Member
I was thinking more about the current perks and opt outs we have, we haven't broken any rules and it's going to come down to whatever "constitutional requirements" end up being.
The price will be Britain's reputation and becoming a bit of a joke, voting to leave with absolutely no plan whatsoever, and the worst government in decades.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's still stunning how the IMF could get away with all the shit they were doing regarding the Euromembers and Greece.
Is this sarcasm? How can the two bolded points co-exist in the same paragraph? May has been PM for a fair chunk of time now, she is the head of this current government and is therefore completely accountable for its actions. Not to mention that she was the one who triggered A50 without a semblance of a plan, causing the 2 year clock to start ticking towards an economic shitshow.
Throw in her entire tenure in the home office, her 'citizens of nowhere' drivel, snoopers charter and everything else she's pretty much said or stood for as a frontline MP and the conclusion should be that people aren't nearly harsh enough on May.
Mechanism or no, there will be pressure for UK to have consequences for this circus.
It was the EU (and I think actually a request from Germany, not sure) that brought the IMF in. A lot of voices within the IMF never wanted to be part of the original deal, let alone the various extensions, but Lagarde pushed it through. Now the IMF is just trying to get out of this insane arrangement. There just are certain kinds of debts you cannot pay back, this holds for individuals, for companies, and yes, for countries as well. Sure, this ideally should never happen, I also hope my car never breaks down, but that doesn't mean I don't get insurance for the case it does.
I feel it's also strange to blame the communist Syriza, that was specifically elected on this issue, to even dare fight back. That's such a anti-democratic view point. Certainly the ability of a people to shape their own lives matters more than money?
Admittedly, one of the prior Greek governments should have pulled the break on this and just accepted all out bankruptcy. At this point, I feel, they are just completely stuck in this giant Sunk Cost Fallacy, that is the Greek rescue plan. Let's hope the country is in some decent shape in a few decades, and most importantly, as part of EU reforms, there is some ordered way for a Euro country to declare bankruptcy.
PdotMichael
Banned
Well, screaming for democracy is sure easy if it isn't your money. But I guess allowing the people in all the other people to decide if they want to spend billions of money on Greece is then not that important I guess.
Commander Jameson
Member
I assume you are talking about the minimum £20bn that May has already conceded to paying. Not sure how the UK could get away with not paying anything back to the EU. It would not bode well for future trade agreements if the UK was seen to be happy to renege on deals.
A competent government would have spent time discussing the various options, studying the benefits and costs to each and then decide whether to trigger Article 50.
It was simply Dominique Strauss-Kahn who assumed it was worth it instead of risking another Lehman's scenario for the banks holding the greek debt.
They have actually gone back to paying out new loans.
The party is being blamed because it was plainly lying to the population.
It is more likely European leaders are quietly turning the loan into an indefinite one that can be forgotten when everyone stopped paying attention.
It was meant solely in this singular context, I did not make that clear, as in finally the penny drops and provisions are now being made, so 'at last' (weak applause) for starting to prepare for the worst, criticisms for not acting until now though are more than warranted
Country before party? Ban that filth!
And where is this cash coming from?
I know May is allergic to clear statements, but I'm confused how she could make an argument that the ball is in the EU's court when, insofar as is publically known, the EU is still waiting on firm policy details from the Florence speech. We're not talking about hearing "We will pay our commitments" from a speech, but hard figures and data in a written format that can be analysed.
This is how Leavers have been attempting to communicate with mainland Europeans for decades, not sure why that would change now.