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[cartoon_soldier]

But May said that UK was coming together. So that's good right?

 

[cormack12]

I guess for me it's the pace of this happening. Although when you factor into the equation that all these places will have to tender for the opportunity to host the business then it sort of makes sense.

I think someone posted an article in the other thread a while back about how as soon as we stopped fannying about and actually triggered article 50 the entire power dynamic changed. This just further underlines that the EU's priority is the EU. Whatever little time and resources are left then Britain is going to have to fight to get more than the minimum required.

This comes on the back of May's Easter message in which she 'senses' people coming together (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39607056). Although Tim Farron's response did make me chuckle

Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron discussed the row over the name of the egg hunt in his Easter message, suggesting it had had little to do with Christianity but was more about holding on to "something comfortable and traditional".

"Given that we are turning the clock back to the early 1970s with Brexit (or indeed the 1580s if we do end up declaring war on Spain), then nostalgia is most definitely the mood of the moment," he said.

I don't think we're coming together at all. From my own personal experience, the partisan voices of both sides have died down. I wouldn't go as far as to say the leave voters I know are having regrets. But I think there is a dawning realisation that they have been taken advantage of. On the flip side, from the people who voted remain, well, they largely just seem to be waiting round to see what the options are, and how badly affected they will be.

Online is a different matter. People seem to revel in committing the most ridiculous stuff to type then needing to defend it with paper thin arguments or idealistic hypotheticals. I get some people have valid criticisms and concerns but the country voted for a government that was heavy on austerity. Then gave it full power. The one thing that kept money flowing to these places were EU funded projects and now that's been villified.

If anything comes of this, it will be the penchant for British people to continually commit great acts of self harm upon themselves (economically), and look for boogeymen to carry the blame while making the same or worse mistakes.

 

[cjp]

I wonder when the gravity of this will actually make a dent into the entrenched, fingers in their ears collective. Surely, there is no one left now who even thinks this will have anything but a very grave effect on us?

Why would you think that when support for Brexit is at a five month high?

 

[Orniletter]

So what are you finance folks doing? Moving to NYC?

More like moving to Frankfurt and Paris.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

So what are you finance folks doing? Moving to NYC?

They would move to somewhere within EU.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

The pinnacle of intelligent debate in the UK.

So glad I don't live there anymore.

As opposed to this sparkle of discussion

Fuck Britain

 

[Protome]

Shouldn't really be surprising that May is falling at the first negotiating hurdle. The UK has no leverage against the EU at all, the only one who comes out better for the UK leaving is the EU.

Spoiler

And maybe Scotland after the next indieref

I do wish people stop being patronising about people who voted to leave. Why do you assume that "99% of people did not even think about this"? Perhaps leavers did consider the economic cost of leaving but still considered it a trade-off worth doing. After all, the remain campaigners kept doomsaying about the economic costs of leaving the EU every chance they got.

And out of curiosity, how long would it have taken for this effect to 'trickle down' to the low-paid workers who are being still undercut by economic migrants from Eastern Europe? Because I remember this debate was happening when I was in High School and Blair was still PM. I am now nearly 30 and we have had three PMs since then, and it still remains an issue.

You're right, low skilled workers will be a lot better off now that their jobs are going away entirely. Maybe they can start filling in for the high skilled workers who will inevitably leave the country post-brexit?

 

[KernelPanic]

May sounds like a wannabe Margaret Thatcher.

 

[Carl2291]

I'm surprised there's been no mass strike action organised by those in these industries that will be hurt, or even by Remain voters in general.

Anything to send a message to the government.

 

[Acidote]

So what are you finance folks doing? Moving to NYC?

Frankfurt seems more like it. They need to be within the EU.

 

[Visualante2]

More like moving to Frankfurt and Paris.

Paris seems likely. Those with families and children at London schools can commute on Eurostar.

 

[TCRS]

err how is that exactly surprising. we told the EU to bugger off and take their agencies with them.

 

[Protome]

err how is that exactly surprising. we told the EU to bugger off and take their agencies with them.

It's not. The other part of the story is the bigger deal.

Britain failed to secure the backing of any of the 27 countries for its case that trade talks should start early in the two years of negotiations allowed by article 50 of the Lisbon treaty.

 

[blazinglord]

Because a lot of people who vote Leave ignore the facts. If immigration is an issue, why didn't Britain close the door to non-EU immigration as a start? That is 50% of immigration right there they have total control over for example. But somehow, that didn't matter.

Well personally I am not comfortable with prioritising particular immigrants from certain countries over others. All immigrants should be treated equally and have equal opportunity to migrate here in my opinion.

I really hope that whatever deal we leave with, we won't have a preferential system for EU citizens at the expense of immigrants from other countries such Australia, India, China etc.

So if immigration was a problem, why didn't the UK restrict access to their market like pretty much everyone else did back then? They were allowed to.

Those low skilled workers have to face a harsh truth: their jobs are gone. And again, this is something for the British government to fix. Instead of focusing on London, they need to fix their smaller towns and make sure people settle there again. Most of the issues people in favor of Brexit have are created by their own government, no the EU. So how leaving the EU will fix all those things is beyond me.

Sometimes it requires a seismic change for people to sit up and listen. People voting to leave the EU forced Westminster to change. Indeed, one positive outcome of the result was a regime-change from a government of old Etonians to a grammar-school educated PM who at least comes across as more focused on 'just about managing' class.

Please give me one or two examples of decision making that left Westminster that has you so upset. Because almost everything the EU does can be blocked by the UK. They just choose not to use that power but complain about it later on.

I could point to the hundreds of EU myths, the decades long propaganda the UK newspapers have run against the EU, the fact that the face of the Brexit campaign was the one spreading these lies, I could point to Farage jumping ship as soon as things go bad, to the corruption in his party, to the ways the UK government is screwing over the British people without the EU, the funds the EU has to invest in British areas its own government doesn't care for, the losing of large companies after Brexit.

If that's the case that they choose not to use their power, then at least they will now be held accountable rather than use the EU as scapegoat for their refusal to deliver promises. However, I do not subscribe to that school of thought that the EU was just akin to a kindly old uncle that liked to give out money with no strings attached out of the goodness of their own hearts, and gently advise the government of the day on what they ought to be doing.

But as requested, one [red meat] example would be ending child benefits for migrant workers for children that do not live in this country. I do not support this policy, the two main political parties (Conservatives and Labour) do not support this policy - and yet it continues, and just not justifable during a time of public spending cuts.

 

[Dougald]

Well, it makes sense being as how we won't be in the EU in 2 years time

I'm surprised there's been no mass strike action organised by those in these industries that will be hurt, or even by Remain voters in general.

Anything to send a message to the government.

Unions are dead in this country, unfortunately. Especially in white collar jobs

 

[Acorn]

Well, it makes sense being as how we won't be in the EU in 2 years time





Unions are dead in this country, unfortunately. Especially in white collar jobs

Even civil service unions are toothless. Only the bma has any sort of clout.

 

[Gallbaro]

NYC be like:

 

[QuicheFontaine]

But May said that UK was coming together. So that's good right?

I think it is, honestly. Remainers seem to split into two camps:
i) didn't want this but I respect the outcome of the vote - let's get on with it (the PM falls into this camp!); and
ii) fuck the UK, I'm leaving.

The combination of the two definitely has the effect of the UK coming together.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Well personally I am not comfortable with prioritising particular immigrants from certain countries over others. All immigrants should be treated equally and have equal opportunity to migrate here in my opinion.

I really hope that whatever deal we leave with, we won't have a preferential system for EU citizens at the expense of immigrants from other countries such Australia, India, China etc.

You know that those are in place everywhere and it is totally normal right? The rules for different countries are different because there are different agreements in place.

Sometimes it requires a seismic change for people to sit up and listen. People voting to leave the EU forced Westminster to change. Indeed, one positive outcome of the result was a regime-change from a government of old Etonians to a grammar-school educated PM who at least comes across as more focused on 'just about managing' class.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. You think the people in charge now are more fit for the job then the previous group? And that is a positive thing. So... you maybe have heard of these things called elections, it is giving you the power to shake things up every few years and pick your own group of people to rule the country.

If that's the case that they choose not to use their power, then at least they will now be held accountable rather than use the EU as scapegoat for their refusal to deliver promises. However, I do not subscribe to that school of thought that the EU was just akin to a kindly old uncle that liked to give out money with no strings attached out of the goodness of their own hearts, and gently advise the government of the day on what they ought to be doing.

But as requested, one [red meat] example would be ending child benefits for migrant workers for children that do not live in this country. I do not support this policy, the two main political parties (Conservatives and Labour) do not support this policy - and yet it continues, and just not justifable during a time of public spending cuts.

So the excuse is: yes, the UK government had all that power, we all didn't give a fuck about it then, but now suddenly we are going to hold them accountable.

Child benefits are given, because those people work in the UK and pay taxes. So by this logic, let's say you work for 40 years in the UK, then leave for Spain, would you be OK with the government taking away your pension?

 

[Gattsu25]

As opposed to this sparkle of discussion

Reminder: The UK consists of more than just Britain. Two other countries, that wanted to remain, were dragged into this stupid decision because of the xenophobic leavers.

 

[Saint Gregory]

The majority of the people who vote this way are reprehensibly stupid though,

Here is a comment from the Guardian section which illustrates why -

As a person living in the USA that sounds incredibly familiar.

It's so crazy to me to watch all of Russia's hopes and dreams for Western destabilization playing out in slow motion yet everyone seems to be stuck in sleep paralysis as it happens.

 

[ClosingADoor]

As a person living in the USA that sounds incredibly familiar.

It's so crazy to me to watch all of Russia's hopes and dreams for Western destabilization playing out in slow motion yet everyone seems to be stuck in sleep paralysis as it happens.

It's amazing. Divide and conquer. To the letter.

 

[danowat]

It's all about the bigger picture and the long term.

I'd have said the bigger picture and the long term outlook is probably a lot more bleak than the short term!!

 

[Pancake Mix]

Guaranteed to be no trade deal if this is the case, obviously.

 

[Abstrusity]

People told me I was crazy when I said there's no way the EU will capitulate to UK demands.

Turns out a Euro-hostile outlook, fancy cakes, Doctor Who reruns, and newly inferior Top Gear doesn't make good a good basis for trade, and killing your single market membership means that other industries will side with the EU, where they can make more money.

It's almost as if people had been saying it for years -- almost as if even Margeret Thatcher herself had the right idea way back when.

 

[Xando]

Guaranteed to be no trade deal if this is the case, obviously.

What do european institutions in a third country have to do with a trade deal?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Guaranteed to be no trade deal if this is the case, obviously.

European agencies being moved to countries that are actually in the EU is a reason to not sign a trade deal? How does this logic go?

 

[Link]

As a person living in the USA that sounds incredibly familiar.

It's so crazy to me to watch all of Russia's hopes and dreams for Western destabilization playing out in slow motion yet everyone seems to be stuck in sleep paralysis as it happens.

Rich people have done an amazing job of consolidating wealth and power while getting people to blame the poor and immigrants for their problems and vote against their own self-interests.

Where's that Oreos gif?

 

[Chinner]

England is a nation of chavs and old people, who have no sense of self awareness. There is already a narrative that things will get better worse before they get better, so most old people will die knowing they made Britain great again.

The younger Leave voters won't give a shit until they've either lost their jobs or benefits.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

Oops.

 

[tuxfool]

I mean, look at these dipshits. That they post these graphs with a straight face. You'd almost think it was the subversive efforts of people wanting to remain.

 

[Vastag]

Guaranteed to be no trade deal if this is the case, obviously.

Serious question, are you surprised by this development? Do you think that is some kind of punitive meassure?

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Brexiteers stay losing, whew

 

[tuxfool]

European agencies being moved to countries that are actually in the EU is a reason to not sign a trade deal? How does this logic go?

It is in the rest of the article. It does mention that they're looking for a transitional agreement.

This is speculative, but if the UK carries on the way it has been so far, it isn't going to be much of anything.

 

[Saint Gregory]

It's amazing. Divide and conquer. To the letter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

To the Cyrillic letter actually. It's like Russia got early access to Persona 5 and sent their calling card to the West 20 years ago.

Spoiler

I've really been hoping for months that the Wiki page is an elaborate hoax/misrepresentation since I can't find a copy to read in English but I haven't been able to find any information disputing it.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I do wish people stop being patronising about people who voted to leave.

you used the term "remoaners" in the post he's replying to so you don't get to tone police people hurting your feelings

 

[DarthMasta]

It's a bit sooner than expected, but not exactly unexpected, is it?

 

[ClosingADoor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

To the Cyrillic letter actually. It's like Russia got early access to Persona 5 and sent their calling card to the West 20 years ago.

Spoiler

I've really been hoping for months that the Wiki page is an elaborate hoax/misrepresentation since I can't find a copy to read in English but I haven't been able to find any information disputing it.

Too bad it doesn't have an English translation. Would be interested in reading it.

 

[Stumpokapow]

It's a bit sooner than expected, but not exactly unexpected, is it?

Basically the reason this is relevant is because much of the uncertainty about the overall impact of Brexit on the UK and the EU is based on the kind of negotiated exit that the two parties manage to come to over the next two years. The Brexiters currently running the UK government want to project the idea that they have negotiating leverage and that through the art of the deal, they will secure concessions from the EU. The EU want to project the idea that Brexit will be bad for England and that they will not blink during negotiations or yield an inch to Britain. Now, the truth is likely to be somewhere in the middle, but in the meantime we are all very interested in reading the tea leaves and signals to see who seems to be better at playing the game of chicken.

So the new information here is that in round 1, Britain asked for a concession from the EU, and the EU responded "no, and by the way, we're going to start inflicting pain now."

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Saw this coming from miles away. Get #brekt, leavers. Shame your idiocy is going to hurt those reasonable, honest people who voted to remain.

 

[Gallbaro]

It's funny in the states getting adds for Northern Ireland as a great European location to open a office.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Too bad it doesn't have an English translation. Would be interested in reading it.

I found a couple of translations on Amazon but the consensus in the reviews is that they're pretty unreadable. Hopefully a big western publisher picks it up for a proper translation soon.

 

[jelly]

I though for a moment the medical centre was that that new one they opened recently but it's not. Still, should be interesting what happens to that as well. Can't remember what it's called though, anyone know?

 

[Pancake Mix]

European agencies being moved to countries that are actually in the EU is a reason to not sign a trade deal? How does this logic go?

The economy is screwed either way and you cannot convince 27 member states to offer a FTA in 2 years. Extension? Not likely either.

Serious question, are you surprised by this development? Do you think that is some kind of punitive meassure?

No, and yes given how euro clearing is done in New York and Tokyo. Was expected though.

 

[tuxfool]

So the new information here is that in round 1, Britain asked for a concession from the EU, and the EU responded "no, and by the way, we're going to start inflicting pain now."

Asked for a concession supplemented by (toothless) threats.

 

[Bleepey]

I mean, look at these dipshits. That they post these graphs with a straight face. You'd almost think it was the subversive efforts of people wanting to remain.

.

 

[Vastag]

No, and yes given how euro clearing is done in New York and Tokyo. Was expected though.

I mean, they are EU institutions, why should they be outside the EU? Should the EU institutions be moved to Canada, Brazil or India? The EMA works on the laws concerning medicines and the regulation of medicines within the EU and the EBA is a regulatory agency for the EU banks. Why do you think that the UK should host those agencies when leaving the EU? The UK intends to be under the regulatory control of those agencies after leaving the union?

 

[EGM1966]

I keep thinking I'm going to end up having to leave UK. Ironic I guess since I voted remain.

 

[tuxfool]

I keep thinking I'm going to end up having to leave UK. Ironic I guess since I voted remain.

Depending on where you're going, you might be indeed remaining.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Well duh, leaving the EU is going to have consequences like this.

Did anyone honestly think that we could vote to leave the EU and still host EU agencies? I think most people who voted to leave accepted that trade-off. Indeed, I remember all the campaign literature about areas that will lose EU funding etc.

However, what remoaners don't seem to realise is that for most leavers - the positive (restoring decision-making back to Westminster) outweigh the negatives (the rebalancing of the UK economy and job market). It's all about the bigger picture and the long term.

It's interesting how leavers keep asking remainers to stop being dicks to them and call us remoaners in the same sentence. Good luck with the automation leavers, you'll need it. I wonder how fast I can get a web developer job and GTFO out of this country before the doors close. Plenty of opportunities in Europe if I seize them with both hands.

Also, good luck with 10+ years of Tory government! Guarantee you that leaving will cause more problems than it will solve.