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[Gallbaro]

Really should be turning to Lend Lease 2.0 with USA at the moment then.

The UK (and Canada) are probably the only politically acceptable nations for open boarders.

Or you could try the commonwealth approach.

 

[blazinglord]

You know that those are in place everywhere and it is totally normal right? The rules for different countries are different because there are different agreements in place.

Is it? The only country I know that has an overtly discriminate immigration policy is Australia.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. You think the people in charge now are more fit for the job then the previous group? And that is a positive thing. So... you maybe have heard of these things called elections, it is giving you the power to shake things up every few years and pick your own group of people to rule the country.

Ah, but what good is it electing a government that does not deliver on promises and points to the EU as the reason?

So the excuse is: yes, the UK government had all that power, we all didn't give a fuck about it then, but now suddenly we are going to hold them accountable.

I make no excuses. I was actually pretty ambivalent about leaving the EU, I wasn't pro it or against it in any particular way. However, now it is happening - I can see benefits to it. Whether those benefits will outweigh the negatives, well that remains to be seen on the final deal with the EU and full extent of the economic costs of leaving the EU. We live in uncertain times, previous orthodoxies are redundant. Time to buckle up, work together and see where the destination will be.

Child benefits are given, because those people work in the UK and pay taxes. So by this logic, let's say you work for 40 years in the UK, then leave for Spain, would you be OK with the government taking away your pension?

I am not going to debate the logic of child benefits. You asked for an example of when EU overruled Westminister on a policy that the two mainstream support, and I gave you one. Take it or leave it old chap.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Is it? The only country I know that has an overtly discriminate immigration policy is Australia.


Ah, but what good is it electing a government that does not deliver on promises and points to the EU as the reason?


I make no excuses. I was actually pretty ambivalent about leaving the EU, I wasn't pro it or against it in any particular way. However, now it is happening - I can see benefits to it. Whether those benefits will outweigh the negatives, well that remains to be seen on the final deal with the EU and full extent of the economic costs of leaving the EU. We live in uncertain times, previous orthodoxies are redundant. Time to buckle up, work together and see where the destination will be.


I am not going to debate the logic of child benefits. You asked for an example of when EU overruled Westminister on a policy that the two mainstream support, and I gave you one. Take it or leave it old chap.

Free movement gives you reciprocal benefits as well. What's stopping you from negotiating free movement with those countries as well? Lobby the government to negotiate free movement with Australia and some other places if you want. What's stopping you from doing it in the EU? Also the number of students are inflating the immigration numbers by a lot thanks to our dumb habit of counting students amongst them. Take them out of the numbers=huge immigration drop already without even doing anything else.

 

[Calabi]

Basically the reason this is relevant is because much of the uncertainty about the overall impact of Brexit on the UK and the EU is based on the kind of negotiated exit that the two parties manage to come to over the next two years. The Brexiters currently running the UK government want to project the idea that they have negotiating leverage and that through the art of the deal, they will secure concessions from the EU. The EU want to project the idea that Brexit will be bad for England and that they will not blink during negotiations or yield an inch to Britain. Now, the truth is likely to be somewhere in the middle, but in the meantime we are all very interested in reading the tea leaves and signals to see who seems to be better at playing the game of chicken.

So the new information here is that in round 1, Britain asked for a concession from the EU, and the EU responded "no, and by the way, we're going to start inflicting pain now."

Only equals can meet in the middle. I dont think its anywhere close in this case. Even ignoring the economic differences and supposed leverages in that aspect. With the ineptitude the UK Government has shown so far there there's no evidence that they understand negotiation at all and are acting like petulant children, I cant see it being anything but one sided in this case.

 

[Commander Jameson]

Any specific benefits that you are expecting to see? Wondered if you had any legislation that you were looking to get changed?

I recall the Article 50 white paper mentioned that the UK had sovereignty already.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

People told me I was crazy when I said there's no way the EU will capitulate to UK demands.

Turns out a Euro-hostile outlook, fancy cakes, Doctor Who reruns, and newly inferior Top Gear doesn't make good a good basis for trade, and killing your single market membership means that other industries will side with the EU, where they can make more money.

It's almost as if people had been saying it for years -- almost as if even Margeret Thatcher herself had the right idea way back when.

BULLSHIT.

The new Top Gear is great.

 

[Skyzard]

Britain is killing medicine itself, doesn't need any help there with how much they've been trying to fuck over the nhs.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

On the child benefit thing you can just join the EEA and you'll be exempt from most of the directives you hate so much anyway. Norway and Switzerland only has to obey the directives directly relating to the operation of the single market. Plus you can trade deal with anyone you want anyway.

 

[blazinglord]

It's interesting how leavers keep asking remainers to stop being dicks to them and call us remoaners in the same sentence. Good luck with the automation leavers, you'll need it. I wonder how fast I can get a web developer job and GTFO out of this country before the doors close. Plenty of opportunities in Europe if I seize them with both hands.

Also, good luck with 10+ years of Tory government! Guarantee you that leaving will cause more problems than it will solve.

Well I am hoping for a deal with the EU that will allow a close trading relationship, because it is a major market and personally I think it would be worth us paying into the club to get some trading benefit out of it. However, I do say this genuinely - best of luck with your future endeavours.

I do not see the need or point for rancour or animosity. Hopefully those of us that stay behind can build a post-EU country that will be attractive to people, exiles and newcomers alike. As for 10+ years of Tory rule - that isn't a given. If Labour don't replace Corbyn in the next election, then I suspect a new centre-left party will arise and wrestle control from Conservatives. The pendulum always swings back. Also, don't forget - Corbyn was never a fan of the EU. Didn't he even famously refuse to say whether he voted to leave or stay?

 

[CyclopsRock]

"crown Jewels"? But I've heard of the crown Jewels.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I do not see the need or point for rancour or animosity.

Again, your first post in this thread began with "remoaners". You are not being sincere.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

Don't worry guys the Brexiteers will find someone else to blame as to why their lives are utter dog shit.

Well we can't blame ourselves because accountability for our dog shit actions isn't an option. Hmmm. Hmmm.

I know!!!! It's the disabled peoples fault!! Year after year these "disabled" people leech benefits from our society whilst doing diddly squat! They're the reasons why life sucks!

Seriously, I guarantee it, the disabled people are 100% next on the chopping block in the endless blame game.

Can't blame foreigners or refugees anymore so the next weakest piece of society? The disabled!

Wait for it.

 

[blazinglord]

Again, your first post in this thread began with "remoaners". You are not being sincere.

It's a tongue-in-cheek term for remainers who moan about stuff for the sake of it. It was obvious that as a non-EU country we would no longer host EU agencies! But I apologise if anyone was offended by the term.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Well I am hoping for a deal with the EU that will allow a close trading relationship, because it is a major market and personally I think it would be worth us paying into the club to get some trading benefit out of it. However, I do say this genuinely - best of luck with your future endeavours.

I do not see the need or point for rancour or animosity. Hopefully those of us that stay behind can build a post-EU country that will be attractive to people, exiles and newcomers alike. As for 10+ years of Tory rule - that isn't a given. If Labour don't replace Corbyn in the next election, then I suspect a new centre-left party will arise and wrestle control from Conservatives. The pendulum always swings back. Also, don't forget - Corbyn was never a fan of the EU. Didn't he even famously refuse to say whether he voted to leave or stay?

The next 10 years are guaranteed Tory anyway because Corbyn can't win an election to save his life handing the next term to the Tories anyway. Who knows. And recently I'm feeling that it won't become too hard to move between EU-UK anyway. The EU parliament wants a deal on future UK citizens who want to move there and vice versa. Read a Parliament document citing an immigration minister who said that there would likely be a bespoke EU migration deal anyway, and it won't be the same as for the rest of the world (likely easier then). I react badly to huge uncertainty, that's the problem with my personality unfortunately.

Document is here:
http://data.parliament.uk/writtenev.../brexit-and-the-labour-market/oral/48907.html

 

[EGM1966]

Depending on where you're going, you might be indeed remaining.

Ha! Yup an EU country would be my destination. All I need work wise is a decent airport not too far from home and that's easy to arrange.

 

[kmag]

Don't worry guys the Brexiteers will find someone else to blame as to why their lives are utter dog shit.

Well we can't blame ourselves because accountability for our dog shit actions isn't an option. Hmmm. Hmmm.

I know!!!! It's the disabled peoples fault!! Year after year these "disabled" people leech benefits from our society whilst doing diddly squat! They're the reasons why life sucks!

Seriously, I guarantee it, the disabled people are 100% next on the chopping block in the endless blame game.

Can't blame foreigners or refugees anymore so the next weakest piece of society? The disabled!

Wait for it.

It won't be the disabled, it'll be the Scots.

 

[Stumpokapow]

It's a tongue-in-cheek term for remainers who moan about stuff for the sake of it.

I know you're a Brexit supporter, but did you actually think I didn't understand the play on words?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Is it? The only country I know that has an overtly discriminate immigration policy is Australia.

Are you seriously arguing that counties having different immigration policies based on agreements are discrimination? This is happening in every country. It is easier for me to move to the US from a Western European country then it would be if I were from an African country. It is even easier to move to Italy, since there are literally no borders then. There is nothing wrong with this.

Ah, but what good is it electing a government that does not deliver on promises and points to the EU as the reason?

Did any government run on those promises? And if the government doesn't deliver and then shifts the blame to the EU, that is still that government at fault! Pointing to the EU does not mean the EU is automatically responsible. This is exactly the problem, since local governments want to shift all the blame to the EU and take credit for all the good stuff.

I make no excuses. I was actually pretty ambivalent about leaving the EU, I wasn't pro it or against it in any particular way. However, now it is happening - I can see benefits to it. Whether those benefits will outweigh the negatives, well that remains to be seen on the final deal with the EU and full extent of the economic costs of leaving the EU. We live in uncertain times, previous orthodoxies are redundant. Time to buckle up, work together and see where the destination will be.

Please name me 3 benefits of leaving the EU over not leaving. And please don't let one be something like taking back control, because like I said before, that is total nonsense.

Time to buckle up, we live in uncertain times, see where the destination will be. Do you really feel things like that is the way a government should operate? Because I don't. I want my government to know what to do in those uncertain times and come with a better argument then "buckle up"!

I am not going to debate the logic of child benefits. You asked for an example of when EU overruled Westminister on a policy that the two mainstream support, and I gave you one. Take it or leave it old chap.

So you come with an example. I explain why that thing is the way it is, and that it is totally valid to be that way. Then I ask you if you are OK if a comparable example, if it would hurt you, and your answer is "take it or leave it". So basically, you have no good arguments and then refuse to debate anymore.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ow-skilled-workers-replaced-robots?CMP=twt_gu

1 out of 3 workers to be replaced by robots in the next 20 years. One of the reasons why I believe people will not get what they want by voting leave. A Conservative government isn't great when you want innovative thinking to solve the issues of the future.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

I do not see the need or point for rancour or animosity. Hopefully those of us that stay behind can build a post-EU country that will be attractive to people, exiles and newcomers alike.

Yeah uh huh. Of course you don't see the point of rancour or animosity. No skin off your dick right?

I'm sure you'll deny it and make some shit up, But every time I encounter some fuckhead like yourself trying to disingenuously intellectualise why removal from the EU is a good thing. You all, funnily enough have one thing in common.

Rich parents that cashed in during Thatcher. So what the fuck do you care right? Can always scab from Mother if things get too bad

 

[Kyougar]

Guaranteed to be no trade deal if this is the case, obviously.

maybe you also want the EZB and the european lawmaking situated in UK? Or ask the US to relocate the whole Wall Street to London.

.... Why do you think that european institutions dont HAVE TO BE on EU soil? If you leave your workplace, do you occupy your office afterwards?

 

[diaspora]

Yeah uh huh. Of course you don't see the point of rancour or animosity. No skin off your dick right?

I'm sure you'll deny it and make some shit up, But every time I encounter some fuckhead like yourself trying to disingenuously intellectualise why removal from the EU is a good thing. You all, funnily enough have one thing in common.

Rich parents that cashed in during Thatcher. So what the fuck do you care right? Can always scab from Mother if things get too bad.

Is such a thing even possible?

 

[BobLoblaw]

As a clueless Yankee, what does Britain even export besides a good accent?

 

[Herr Schwarz]

Is such a thing even possible?

People underestimate the level of class divide in the UK.

There's a whole wave of gen x and millenials that are backed up by extremely wealthy parents that were in a fantastic position after Thatcher came through with her "lets sell off all the housing" firesale.

An extreme gulf of wealth and social mobility/opportunity between said groups that's for sure.

 

[Gallbaro]

As a clueless Yankee, what does Britain even export besides a good accent?

Export is a smaller of equation for Britain, bigger issue is import.

But here you go.

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr/

 

[Skyzard]

As a clueless Yankee, what does Britain even export besides a good accent?

Weapons. Though mostly to the Middle East:

UK has sold more arms than Russia, China, or France on average over the last 10 years. Only the United States is a bigger exporter.

 

[ClosingADoor]

As a clueless Yankee, what does Britain even export besides a good accent?

Car parts, machinery, oil, medicine and gold.

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr/

 

[Sunster]

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ow-skilled-workers-replaced-robots?CMP=twt_gu

1 out of 3 workers to be replaced by robots in the next 20 years. One of the reasons why I believe people will not get what they want by voting leave. A Conservative government isn't great when you want innovative thinking to solve the issues of the future.

Conservative government is never great. It's main idea is holding on to the past and "tradition". It just holds us all back.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

Conservatism used to mean progress at a moderate pace.

Now it's just fucking Regression.

 

[Chinner]

It won't be the disabled, it'll be the Scots.

Don't be silly, we're going to continue is blaming immigrants and EU.

 

[Protome]

It won't be the disabled, it'll be the Scots.

Not until after a second indiref. Can't blame the scots for stuff when there's a risk that doing so will cause further damage to the UK.

 

[BobLoblaw]

Yikes. Cars are their second highest export? I had no idea. Gold's the highest export? Where the hell is it coming from? British exports are crazy. Good luck dealing with the EU. I doubt they'll give you any vaseline.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

Don't be silly, we're going to continue is blaming immigrants and EU.

No 10 policy head George Freeman says disability payments should go to the 'really disabled'- not those who suffer from anxiety - Telegraph

Trust me, the smaller and weaker the group the easier it is to flush them down the fucking toilet.

Trial balloons already happening.

 

[PdotMichael]

So there is a dramatically decrease of skilled workers in the health care field because of the Brexit.
UK will lose various agencies within a short time and important parts of the financial business will move to other EU countries.

You guys sure showed the dirty Europeans who is the boss here.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

BULLSHIT.

The new Top Gear is great.

This opinion places you in the same camp as Leavers...

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Britain is killing medicine itself, doesn't need any help there with how much they've been trying to fuck over the nhs.

The health secretary advocates for sugar water as medicine...

 

[Protome]

No 10 policy head George Freeman says disability payments should go to the 'really disabled'- not those who suffer from anxiety - Telegraph

Trust me, the smaller and weaker the group the easier it is to flush them down the fucking toilet.

Trial balloons already happening.

The government already created a Department for forcing disabled people into jobs which don't exist with the purpose of reducing benefits

Spoiler

and driving them towards suicide.

Wouldn't shock me if they just leaned into that and blamed the Disabled for any and all issues.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

This opinion places you in the same camp as Leavers...

I'm reporting this post to the mods.

 

[Acorn]

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ow-skilled-workers-replaced-robots?CMP=twt_gu

1 out of 3 workers to be replaced by robots in the next 20 years. One of the reasons why I believe people will not get what they want by voting leave. A Conservative government isn't great when you want innovative thinking to solve the issues of the future.

"They should become androids"

"Everyone else will magically become engineers"

 

[Acorn]

This opinion places you in the same camp as Leavers...

The opposite since og top gear is the brexit lads Bible.

 

[Keasar]

 

[Chmpocalypse]

err how is that exactly surprising. we told the EU to bugger off and take their agencies with them.

Lol, so fucking predictable. From "UK will win, sovereignty rules, boohoo remoaners" to "what, we always knew things would be rough, no surprise here no sir".

Lolololol

 

[blazinglord]

I know you're a Brexit supporter, but did you actually think I didn't understand the play on words?

I accept that it was ill-advised to use the word, and lowered the tone of the debate.

Are you seriously arguing that counties having different immigration policies based on agreements are discrimination? This is happening in every country. It is easier for me to move to the US from a Western European country then it would be if I were from an African country. It is even easier to move to Italy, since there are literally no borders then. There is nothing wrong with this.

I am indeed arguing that favouring Europeans over non-European immigrants with regard to right to reside in the UK is discrimination. Obviously, it is legal because we are currently in the EU, but I do not have to like it. And I don't. All immigrants should have an equal opportunity to come here through a skilled points system.

Did any government run on those promises? And if the government doesn't deliver and then shifts the blame to the EU, that is still that government at fault! Pointing to the EU does not mean the EU is automatically responsible. This is exactly the problem, since local governments want to shift all the blame to the EU and take credit for all the good stuff.

Please name me 3 benefits of leaving the EU over not leaving. And please don't let one be something like taking back control, because like I said before, that is total nonsense.

Time to buckle up, we live in uncertain times, see where the destination will be. Do you really feel things like that is the way a government should operate? Because I don't. I want my government to know what to do in those uncertain times and come with a better argument then "buckle up"!

Why is the onus on me to name 3 benefits of leaving the EU? Seriously, I said that I was not really strongly for or against the idea of leaving prior to June 2016. But I accept the result of the referendum, and I sympathise with why people voted to leave.

I hear what you say about what you want from our government, and obviously this is different point of view. Personally, I am okay with the idea of changing the way we do things, and leaving the EU is obviously a way to achieve this. It is no secret that I am not instinctively a multilateralist, but with regard to Brexit result, I think the vote was really for the status quo or change. Leaving represented change, and a majority voted for it. So to put it in another way, a majority of people in this country was obviously not happy with the status quo.

So you come with an example. I explain why that thing is the way it is, and that it is totally valid to be that way. Then I ask you if you are OK if a comparable example, if it would hurt you, and your answer is "take it or leave it". So basically, you have no good arguments and then refuse to debate anymore.

Well I don't want to derail the thread talking about child benefits. It is a policy that two major parties in this country (namely the Conservatives and Labour) wanted to change but were unable to do so because of the EU.

Yeah uh huh. Of course you don't see the point of rancour or animosity. No skin off your dick right?

I'm sure you'll deny it and make some shit up, But every time I encounter some fuckhead like yourself trying to disingenuously intellectualise why removal from the EU is a good thing. You all, funnily enough have one thing in common.

Rich parents that cashed in during Thatcher. So what the fuck do you care right? Can always scab from Mother if things get too bad

It's true, I personally probably won't be too affected by Brexit. I am a middle class professional who lives in an affluent area, so I am not particularly concerned with matters like Eastern Europeans undercutting my wages or the scarcity of resources in areas where schools and surgeries are oversubscribed.

However, I do have some empathy and I care about society - which is why I can understand the frustration and resentment of those who voted to leave. I can put myself in the shoes of those who do live in poor areas and on low wages, and who feels that the government does not listen to them and that their quality of life is suffering.

So I make no apology for discussing the wider context of Brexit and the circumstances that led us to this situation in the first place.

 

[Acorn]

Should have us held in front of him to cushion England's fall.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

I don't want to advocate for some kind of bastille day - but wait yes I do. Honestly I wouldn't give two shits if some mob dragged Theresa May out of.number 10 by her hair and held her to account.

The policies they create drives people to suicide so they are already guilty of manslaughter by proxy.

So fuck them. The next wave of unrest is gonna make the London riots look like a fairground ride.

I also find it interesting that Brexit vote was also influenced by active measures from the Russians. Funny how chancer scum like May don't like bringing that up.

People like her all they give a fuck about is their wikpedia page. Nothing else but aggregating a big blurb for their shit stain legacy.

Hey, and if things get too tough for her, well just like her predecessor she can just say "fuck it" and resign and go slime the fuck off under whatever rock david Cameron slimed himself under once things got too tough for him.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

It's a tongue-in-cheek term for remainers who moan about stuff for the sake of it. It was obvious that as a non-EU country we would no longer host EU agencies! But I apologise if anyone was offended by the term.

"I'm sorry if you were offended" is not an apology, nor was your comment "tongue in cheek".

As was noted, you are not being sincere.

 

[Abstrusity]

The opposite since og top gear is the brexit lads Bible.

It's so quintessentially British! Watching OG Top Gear is like visiting the Colosseum in Rome, or visiting Easter Island, or Aztec ruins. It's something the world remembers a long-dead empire by! Future generations will look back on this time with wonder and excitement. Some say the British Empire used to mean something, or that it used to be a UNITED Kingdom, led by a timeless sovereign. Some say he drove so fast that he could scale buildings. All we know is that he's called the Stig, hallowed be His name.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Don't worry guys it's easter! Lets all come together as we jump off a cliff.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

"I'm sorry if you were offended" is not an apology, nor was your comment "tongue in cheek".

As was noted, you are not being sincere.

Welcome to Britain. The home of the passive aggressive mangina.

 

[blazinglord]

"I'm sorry if you were offended" is not an apology, nor was your comment "tongue in cheek".

As was noted, you are not being sincere.

I apologised and said it was a mistake to use the word, even in jest.

I don't think it is fair to say that I am insincere, and if you look at my post history, you can see that I am polite and respectful of other people's opinions.