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[RexNovis]

His breakdown isn't completely accurate. If you watch the stream Bungie clearly says that you can get chroma by breaking down chroma enabled gear, gear you get from faction rank up packages for instance that don't cost money.

It appears around the 20min mark on the youtube upload of the stream.

I'm on mobile right now and can update this with a link later.

And to your other points saying something "has its own perks" implies unique/exclusive. Vague phrasing doesn't help discussion and a more accurate statement would be that the armor pieces have regular armor perks.

I agree with Ghaleon in that it would be better to just sell the full set so that people that want it can just have it. The difference between these armor pieces and other destiny armor pieces is literally just it's looks though. I think it would be better for destiny to have a Transmog system and just sell skins for armor, because it would achieve the same thing but would have less stigma attached.

You don't like micro transactions in destiny, is what I'm gathering, and that's fine. It's your opinion.
I'm letting you know that microtransactions haven't hindered or put me at a disadvantage in the over 1500 hours I've put into the game and this new stuff doesn't change that at all.

So my question is, if this stuff can be obtained for free, does not have exclusive anything, does not make the game easier or put a player without it at a disadvantage, what is there to be upset or dislike about this specifically other than the fact that you can spend money on stuff inside of destiny?

I fully understand why people don't like that there are microtransactions inside of destiny and that's been in-game for months now. I even understand being concerned about them crossing over into pay-to-win type stuff. But there is nothing that has been announced that moves the line any closer to pay-to-win.

If the issue is the wording I'll fix it but having their own perks doesnt mean exclusive perks it means that these peices of armor have perks. If I meant exclusive perks I would have said exclusive perks. I can see how that could be read differently however. So I'll address it. As far as Ghaleon's breakdown goes it is almost entirely accurate except for that one specific facet. I'll add a footnote about it.

I disagree wholeheartedly that these microtransactions dont affect my gameplay because t is becoming increasingly clear as shown by many of the examples cited in this very thread that the game is being designed around these microtransactions and is introducing common FTP tactics to drive their sales. That directly impacts my enjoyment of the game. I do not take kindly to the fact that my time and experience are being leveraged as an upsell technique for in game purchases. As such, so long as I am able, I will continue to protest the implementation of things of this nature in games that I paid significant amounts of money for up front.

 

[LordofPwn]

If the issue is the wording I'll fix it but having their own perks doesnt mean exclusive perks it means that these peices of armor have perks. If I meant exclusive perks I would have said exclusive perks. I can see how that could be read differently however. So I'll address it. As far as Ghaleon's breakdown goes it is almost entirely accurate except for that one specific facet. I'll add a footnote about it.

I disagree wholeheartedly that these microtransactions dont affect my gameplay because t is becoming increasingly clear as shown by many of the examples cited in this very thread that the game is being designed around these microtransactions and is introducing common FTP tactics to drive their sales. That directly impacts my enjoyment of the game. I do not take kindly to the fact that my time and experience are being leveraged as an upsell technique for in game purchases. As such, so long as I am able, I will continue to protest the implementation of things of this nature in games that I paid significant amounts of money for up front.

This is the discussion I was looking for. Thank you.

I understand bungie is trying to make more money, game dev is hard work, and the only way to get that money is from the people that play. I bought the ghost edition of this game plus the taken king, + an emote because I wanted something extra. I've spent plenty on this game. The "free updates" have been lackluster except SRL imo. But it's nice to see them try and bring out fresh content every now and then.

I don't plan on buying silver, there's nothing there I want. I can ignore the microtransactions. They don't stop me from getting to max light, they don't stop me from raiding with my friends every week, they don't stop me from having fun in the game when I choose to play it.

Say in order to keep live updates and these "free" events meant they need money to pay for it, would you rather other people buy cosmetic items and emotes and consumables, or would you rather they charge a monthly fee + expansion costs, and completely get rid of silver?

I mean I'd rather they got rid of silver, and the free updates and I'll just buy expansions when they come out, enjoy it with my friends and then put destiny back on a shelf and play other games until another expansion.

 

[GhaleonEB]

His breakdown isn't completely accurate. If you watch the stream Bungie clearly says that you can get chroma by breaking down chroma enabled gear, gear you get from faction rank up packages for instance that don't cost money.

It appears around the 20min mark on the youtube upload of the stream.

I'm on mobile right now and can update this with a link later.

And to your other points saying something "has its own perks" implies unique/exclusive. Vague phrasing doesn't help discussion and a more accurate statement would be that the armor pieces have regular armor perks.

I agree with Ghaleon in that it would be better to just sell the full set so that people that want it can just have it. The difference between these armor pieces and other destiny armor pieces is literally just it's looks though. I think it would be better for destiny to have a Transmog system and just sell skins for armor, because it would achieve the same thing but would have less stigma attached.

You don't like micro transactions in destiny, is what I'm gathering, and that's fine. It's your opinion.
I'm letting you know that microtransactions haven't hindered or put me at a disadvantage in the over 1500 hours I've put into the game and this new stuff doesn't change that at all.

So my question is, if this stuff can be obtained for free, does not have exclusive anything, does not make the game easier or put a player without it at a disadvantage, what is there to be upset or dislike about this specifically other than the fact that you can spend money on stuff inside of destiny?

I fully understand why people don't like that there are microtransactions inside of destiny and that's been in-game for months now. I even understand being concerned about them crossing over into pay-to-win type stuff. But there is nothing that has been announced that moves the line any closer to pay-to-win.

Yeah, I got some details wrong this morning. Re-rolling costs 100 glimmer, not chroma, and there is another source or two for it. But setting the gun or armor to that color consumed chroma, so if you want to see how a gun looks with different colors, it's a lot of re-rolling and four chroma units. All the issues with getting a set of armor to one color, one piece at a time, and then deciding to change it to align it to another shader, are there. You'll burn chroma and a lot of glimmer trying to go from red to blue.

If there was no monetization in Destiny, chroma would be another type of shader and added to the loot tables. We'd acquire it, and then apply it to armor (and now weapons) like a regular shader. A simple way to monetize it would be to just take that same type of new shader and sell it at Eververse for say, $2 each. I'd buy all four day 1 because they look cool as hell and I'd want to reward a decent monetization scheme that slots in with the Live updates.

Instead it's RNG in the boxes, then RNG and glimmer to re-roll, and it's not permanent but consumed when you change colors, and applies to one piece at at time, etc. Which is problematic for me because despite the fact that they are cosmetic, they're 1) cool and 2) added to the loot in PvP and PvE. So even if I don't want to tango with the monetization, I still get saddled with a weirdly complex implementation because of the microtransaction hooks.

What's frustrating is, if the update is good, I'd be happy to spend some real dollars in Destiny. But they also have to provide things I want to buy. And there's no way on earth I'd spend money on a random item box for real dollars. Or even a consumable version of chroma. If they ever just up and sell the blue chroma as a permanent item, I'd buy it, because I like blue. But not under the system they've devised.

 

[RexNovis]

This is the discussion I was looking for. Thank you.

I understand bungie is trying to make more money, game dev is hard work, and the only way to get that money is from the people that play. I bought the ghost edition of this game plus the taken king, + an emote because I wanted something extra. I've spent plenty on this game. The "free updates" have been lackluster except SRL imo. But it's nice to see them try and bring out fresh content every now and then.

I don't plan on buying silver, there's nothing there I want. I can ignore the microtransactions. They don't stop me from getting to max light, they don't stop me from raiding with my friends every week, they don't stop me from having fun in the game when I choose to play it.

Say in order to keep live updates and these "free" events meant they need money to pay for it, would you rather other people buy cosmetic items and emotes and consumables, or would you rather they charge a monthly fee + expansion costs, and completely get rid of silver?

I mean I'd rather they got rid of silver, and the free updates and I'll just buy expansions when they come out, enjoy it with my friends and then put destiny back on a shelf and play other games until another expansion.

The issue is not the presence of microtransactions in the game its their implementation and how that is affecting the gameplay loop. The way in which they are implemented utilizes RNG, Timers and other well known FTP mechancis that are designed to inconvenience people enough to buy things. If they had simply stuck with emotes being for sale or shaders for a flat fee then that would be 100% ok imo. But when their implementation of these microtransactions leads to the unnecessary introduction of the FTP loops that cheapens my gameplay experience and I simply do not and will not stand for it. If they want to implement these sorts of mechanics to the game it certainly shuld not be slowly trickling in post release and imo it should be limited to games with no upfront investment required to play.

 

[LordofPwn]

Yeah, I got some details wrong this morning. Re-rolling costs 100 glimmer, not chroma, and there is another source or two for it. But setting the gun or armor to that color consumed chroma, so if you want to see how a gun looks with different colors, it's a lot of re-rolling and four chroma units. All the issues with getting a set of armor to one color, one piece at a time, and then deciding to change it to align it to another shader, are there. You'll burn chroma and a lot of glimmer trying to go from red to blue.

If there was no monetization in Destiny, chroma would be another type of shader and added to the loot tables. We'd acquire it, and then apply it to armor (and now weapons) like a regular shader. A simple way to monetize it would be to just take that same type of new shader and sell it at Eververse for say, $2 each. I'd buy all four day 1 because they look cool as hell and I'd want to reward a decent monetization scheme that slots in with the Live updates.

Instead it's RNG in the boxes, then RNG and glimmer to re-roll, and it's not permanent but consumed when you change colors, and applies to one piece at at time, etc. Which is problematic for me because despite the fact that they are cosmetic, they're 1) cool and 2) added to the loot in PvP and PvE. So even if I don't want to tango with the monetization, I still get saddled with a weirdly complex implementation because of the microtransaction hooks.

What's frustrating is, if the update is good, I'd be happy to spend some real dollars in Destiny. But they also have to provide things I want to buy. And there's no way on earth I'd spend money on a random item box for real dollars. Or even a consumable version of chroma. If they ever just up and sell the blue chroma as a permanent item, I'd buy it, because I like blue. But not under the system they've devised.

Good points.

There's a cumbersome experience with RNG and loot in destiny on a ground level that these microtransactions may shine light on more than the microtransactions being completely bad themselves.

I feel like the game has definitely evolved and that the interface wasn't designed with the evolution in mind.

Just looking at these new nodes on gear seems to clutter them up.

I hope they would overhaul destiny 2 with better systems for all of these ideas. The chroma idea is cool but still kinda half-assed. Why not a color wheel? And they really need to look at other loot games on how to handle stuff like cosmetics. Transmog. I also know being cross-gen hasn't helped, but I don't know to what extent in some of these ideas.
Game dev is hard.

 

[RexNovis]

Yeah, I got some details wrong this morning. Re-rolling costs 100 glimmer, not chroma, and there is another source or two for it. But setting the gun or armor to that color consumed chroma, so if you want to see how a gun looks with different colors, it's a lot of re-rolling and four chroma units. All the issues with getting a set of armor to one color, one piece at a time, and then deciding to change it to align it to another shader, are there. You'll burn chroma and a lot of glimmer trying to go from red to blue.

If there was no monetization in Destiny, chroma would be another type of shader and added to the loot tables. We'd acquire it, and then apply it to armor (and now weapons) like a regular shader. A simple way to monetize it would be to just take that same type of new shader and sell it at Eververse for say, $2 each. I'd buy all four day 1 because they look cool as hell and I'd want to reward a decent monetization scheme that slots in with the Live updates.

Instead it's RNG in the boxes, then RNG and glimmer to re-roll, and it's not permanent but consumed when you change colors, and applies to one piece at at time, etc. Which is problematic for me because despite the fact that they are cosmetic, they're 1) cool and 2) added to the loot in PvP and PvE. So even if I don't want to tango with the monetization, I still get saddled with a weirdly complex implementation because of the microtransaction hooks.

What's frustrating is, if the update is good, I'd be happy to spend some real dollars in Destiny. But they also have to provide things I want to buy. And there's no way on earth I'd spend money on a random item box for real dollars. Or even a consumable version of chroma. If they ever just up and sell the blue chroma as a permanent item, I'd buy it, because I like blue. But not under the system they've devised.

The thing I find so frustrating about all of this is how unnecessarily complicated it is. Microtransactions do not require such convoluted implementations to exist. They could be implementing them in a straight forward way that respects the players time, money and gameplay experience but instead they implement them in an increasingly complex byzantine manner that leaves players confused, frustrated and unhappy. It didnt need to be this way. They just seem to learn nothing form the objections to their previous implementations and insist on continuing to poison the well more and more only to feign surprise when it breeds resentment among the userbase.

 

[Freeman76]

Seems to be effectively cosmetic, so it seems one of the more harmless aspects of Destiny.

Still, for cosmetic gear I'd prefer a system like Guild Wars 2, where it's equipped separately to visually override the actual gear you have equipped. That always seemed a pretty nice way to handle that- I suppose some might argue that masking the perks you have equipped would be a bit dodgy in PVP though.

The thing with GW2 is you can earn gems with in game gold, something these cunts dont allow since all they want is to exploit peoples addiction. Fuck Bungie, Fuck Activision, and Fuck Destiny.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Only thing that bothers me about this is that I can't actually give them money since Silver purchases still aren't possible with a JP account....for some damn reason.

So there is a good chance I will be one of those players who has bad luck and can't put together a full set of Desolate armor.

It seems like a lot of the arguments seem to be drawing from the fact that there are PVE perks on armor and that doesn't make them cosmetic anymore, especially combined with the infusion system.

I would agree if these armor pieces actually had some unique perks which you couldn't see anywhere else, however the pic linked just shows some generic 'super energy on a grenade kill' style perks so I don't see the problem. They are primarily cosmetic items but with some tweaks can be viable to actually use during gameplay. Seems like a WIN/WIN to me honestly and nothing to really complain about. There was a limit to how much people were going to spend on items that aren't viable outside of playing dress-up on the tower and this system seems to do a good job navigating the treacherous 'pay-to-win' waters.

I do dislike that they have to be random grab bags, but it makes sense if they still want to give stuff away for free.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Literally every F2P MMO does this, I don't understand why people are surprised.

Because Destiny isnt F2P or a MMO?

 

[Joco]

Literally legal childhood gambling, and people don't seem to have a problem with it (same issue in CS, TF2, etc).

I think it's a just a matter of time before the hammer comes down on these types of random loot chests (or boxes or crates or whatever you want to call it) in the form of government regulation. I'm ok with microtransactions existing to some extent, but it should be a 1:1 trade - purchase something, but know exactly what you're getting. None of this RNG nonsense which has become wildly popular for developers to add into their games.

 

[TatteredHat]

At this point I'm just looking forward to seeing what they'll try next.

 

[Deku Tree]

At this point I'm just looking forward to seeing what they'll try next.

Well Activision is already selling RNG boxes that have like a 1/5000 chance to get one of three OP weapons in Blops3. Several streamers have spend thousands of dollars trying to get them. If Destiny doesn't hit their high earnings targets or even if they do then this kind of thing is probably on the way.

 

[Klyka]

Well Activision is already selling RNG boxes that have like a 1/5000 chance to get one of three OP weapons in Blops3. Several streamers have spend thousands of dollars trying to get them. If Destiny doesn't hit their high earnings targets or even if they do then this kind of thing is probably on the way.

I refuse to believe this

 

[Deku Tree]

I refuse to believe this

It's true.

Edit:

https://youtu.be/33WHi4ORdHY

 

[Victrix]

I refuse to believe this

One of them spent $1700 recently

... he didn't get one of the guns he wanted

 

[Mupod]

They either need to require a sub fee and put out constant updates or go F2P. Right now they've got the worst of both worlds.

Another option - I'm playing black desert online right now, that's a full fledged mmorpg with no sub fee using what seems to be a similar model to GW2. Mostly cosmetic stuff with some convenience purchases, it's not perfect and there's some bullshit like +1 luck underwear and auto loot pets but for a korean mmo that's practically saintly. But most importantly is it gets supported with content updates.

When Bungie announced their microtransactions most people assumed they'd be transitioning to that kind of system...yes, I know they didn't outright SAY that, but it's how the community interpreted it. People were buying dances and saying they didn't mind dropping some money if it meant it was helping fund the next expansion. And then, well, yeah.

 

[Deku Tree]

They either need to require a sub fee and put out constant updates or go F2P. Right now they've got the worst of both worlds.

Another option - I'm playing black desert online right now, that's a full fledged mmorpg with no sub fee using what seems to be a similar model to GW2. Mostly cosmetic stuff with some convenience purchases, it's not perfect and there's some bullshit like +1 luck underwear and auto loot pets but for a korean mmo that's practically saintly. But most importantly is it gets supported with content updates.

When Bungie announced their microtransactions most people assumed they'd be transitioning to that kind of system...yes, I know they didn't outright SAY that, but it's how the community interpreted it. People were buying dances and saying they didn't mind dropping some money if it meant it was helping fund the next expansion. And then, well, yeah.

Yup we have the bad MT model without the corresponding support that often goes with it.


Edit:


These are the psychological theories that Destiny is also using to try and trick you into spending real money.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2016/02/11/new-black-ops-3-weapons-in-supply-drops-are-unacceptable/