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Bungie Weekly Update 3/23 - atmosphere and scale

S

Sean

Banned
The need for realistic distance drawing is vital in Halo 3, because of the sheer scale of our maps. The distant mountains in that E3 trailer are absolutely real geometry. You can detach the camera, fly out to them (which would take about fifteen minutes even with our camera’s “gas” button held down) and see that they’re even textured properly. This is a function of the nature of the Halo 3 engine, and testament to the 360’s horsepower. It means we don’t have to “cheat” as much with fancy skyboxes and obfuscation.
Click to expand...

These techniques appear in many levels, since technically most of our levels contain big, open spaces, at least part of the time. There are smaller scale applications too, such as humidity in a lush environment, and dust in a desert clime. It has fewer applications in multiplayer, but it is creeping in where required.
Click to expand...

Genius programmer Damian Isla is working on “flocking behavior” for distant battles. There are certain parts of the game where large scale air battles are going on in the distance, and the most convincing way to do that is to use real craft having real battles. Now, these particular ones are for show rather than interaction, but they should look convincing. Damian’s been tweaking the behavior of all these craft – I won’t name ‘em, but you can probably guess what various kinds are going at it – so that they have visually convincing fights.
Click to expand...

And gameplay is there. Seriously. The designers would scoff at that opinion given how much polish time they have left on these encounters, but already, gameplay has reached new heights. And I don’t mean Halo 3 – I mean for the entire series. This part is going to sound like hyperbolae, so I’ll reinforce the fact that this is merely my opinion:

Halo 3 encounters are more fun, more challenging, more varied and more enjoyable than those in Halo or Halo 2. The interplay and strategies created among the various Covenant foes is just thrilling. One weird thing that I just can’t get used to (in a good way, I mean) is the fact that you have to plan for multiple encounters in one location. You can see a group in the distance, and head down to fight them. You could toss a grenade to get the party started – but here’s a hint. Between you and them and the tumble of rocks and scree between you, I happen to know that a Banshee is going to drop off four Grunts and a Brute Chieftain. The Phantom itself is going to start laying down fire on you, so my suggestion is to bide your time, wait for the first Phantom, and take care of that before irritating those guys way down the hill.
Click to expand...

Breakdown of the average Halo 3 encounter (wow):
I thought it would be as good a place as any to describe the content of an average H3 Encounter. To do this, I made the Chief invincible, detached the camera and flew around counting stuff. Now, remember, this is live, so these guys were all fighting each other, lobbing mortars and dying, so I may be missing a few (Jackals for sure, since they were pinging me pretty good from somewhere), and I definitely saw a Phantom deliver two more ghosts while I was counting, and I literally stopped counting when, after a couple of Marines had been killed – a door on the far side of the location slid open, and revealed a whole passel of jerks. I figure the list below will pretty much give you the idea. Remember that, if you had a sniper rifle or rocket launcher, you could have destroyed any or all of the following in that one, single location. And I am deliberately leaving out a couple of items here, because they haven’t been revealed yet.

Encounter Recipe:
Scary Post Apocalyptic Environment: 1
Phantoms: 3
Grunts: 14
Marines: 6
Brutes: 8
Jackals: 3
Wraiths: 3
Ghosts: 6
Mongoose: 1
Warthogs: 1
New version of old favorite: 1
Chief: 1
Giant Bad Guy in distance: 1
Frightening and Inexplicable Maelstrom: 1
Ancient Forerunner Artifact: 1
Click to expand...

In combat, the scale is just as large, but the AI is different since it’s tuned for fun and challenge rather than grand spectacle. No point in a glorious sequence of barrel rolls if they serve no gameplay purpose.
Click to expand...

More atmosphere stuff:

Lots of birds:
But on a more literal scale, one of our contract 3D artists is working on birds. So far I’ve seen seagulls and what appears to be some kind of cockatoo. Both kinds flock, wheel and fly in very large numbers. Who knows what those numbers will grow or dwindle to in the final cut, but right now the demo was about 50 seagulls wheeling and cawing above a cliff top, and looking remarkably like Discovery channel footage of an otherwise boring scene.
Click to expand...

Water update:
Water isn’t really clear and transparent until you’re looking directly down – at an angle, it’s a darker version of the blue of the sky, or picking up colors from rocks and trees reflected in it. But it was Joe Staten who spotted the best new water feature (I would describe him as about 85% less excited by it than me) which is a waterfall from a very early level, where the water flows smoothly and slickly over some big, smooth boulders, and then cascades more energetically down the larger drops – to end in a convincing mist and splash as it hits the main body of the river. That effect is implemented in Valhalla already. I can’t actually remember what it looked like in the Alpha version now.
Click to expand...

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12310
 
D

disappeared

Banned
Does anybody remember - from the gigantic Halo 2 feature that EGM ran a few years back - that "valley" scenario that Bungie talked about? Master Chief starts at the end of this valley, and there are Covenant approaching down the center. Immediately, there are several options presented to the player. First, you could hop on a Warthog and charge straight through for a direct assault. Second, you could hop on an ATV (before they got axed) and cruise up to the high edge of the valley to snipe the enemies - allowing your teammates to charge through and attack. There were a few other ways if I remember, but it sounded so damned cool. How you ran through the level is up to you. Ultimately the whole scenario was removed, but it sounded so awesome.

Any chance we'll see anything like that in Halo 3? Stinkles?
 
eso76

eso76

Member
Well, sounds grand.
Just what Halo 3 needed.
Let's hope everything he said actually makes it in the game this time.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
disappeared said:
Does anybody remember - from the gigantic Halo 2 feature that EGM ran a few years back - that "valley" scenario that Bungie talked about? Master Chief starts at the end of this valley, and there are Covenant approaching down the center. Immediately, there are several options presented to the player. First, you could hop on a Warthog and charge straight through for a direct assault. Second, you could hop on an ATV (before they got axed) and cruise up to the high edge of the valley to snipe the enemies - allowing your teammates to charge through and attack. There were a few other ways if I remember, but it sounded so damned cool. How you ran through the level is up to you. Ultimately the whole scenario was removed, but it sounded so awesome.

Any chance we'll see anything like that in Halo 3? Stinkles?
Click to expand...


Yes, all the time. One level has zero controllable vehicles, however.
 
B

blazinglazers

Member
the scale of this game sounds crazy; the "average" halo 3 battle he describes includes a minimum of 25 covenant supported by 12 covenant vehicles, with 6 marines and 2 supporting marine vehicles? so we're over 40 a.i. entities, and that's before the battle got heated and more arrived, and excluding the enemies / elements they haven't revealed yet?

sweet jesus.

my favorite halo / gaming moments of all time were the large scale, open battles from halo 1. anyone know how many elements were at play there? running out into the field and deciding what to do and how to take everyone on was incredibly rewarding, and it seems like bungie is focusing on that, making that the setting for their patented 30 seconds in h3. I'm so excited.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
eso76 said:
Well, sounds grand.
Just what Halo 3 needed.
Let's hope everything he said actually makes it in the game this time.
Click to expand...

I am trying to only mention things I'm certain will make it. Most of the big, scary items, I haven't ever mentioned. Including one of the hugest of all, even though i keep being told it's a sure thing.
 
S

Skilotonn

xbot xbot xbot xbot xbot
Man, the details just sound so... wow.

These details are one of the many reasons why I love Bungie - these are the things I appreciate in good games, and it's gonna make the multiple playthoughs I will no doubt make all the sweeter!

I'm playing Gears right now, but all that's going through my mind right now is visualising stuff like the birds flying through the air, or a huge, epic sky battle overhead while being swamped on the ground...
 
S

Striker

Member
Mr Vociferous said:
Giant Bad Guy in distance: 1

Hahah. :D
Click to expand...
I wonder who that is, too.

The distant air-battles is very intriguing too. Allows me to question if they're bringing in a human aerial vehicle. :)
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Mute said:
Whoa, when did Bungie's website get a facelift?
Click to expand...
This week.

Great update. The story aside, the scale of Halo 3 is the element I'm most interested in and excited by. The quantification of the battle is a good indication of just how big the fights can be.

Great update, Frankie. Look forward to the content next week. :D
 
M

MarkMacD

Member
This sort of update should be saved for a couple weeks, a month tops, before the game comes out. This early is just cruel. CRUEL.
 
S

Sean

Banned
McBain said:
Nice update. Seems to be missing something though. Hmm.. ahh yes, info on the new Halo 2 maps.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering about that too.

I hope they are not planning on releasing the Halo 3 beta and Halo 2 maps at the same time. I mean who's gonna want to play Halo 2 over Halo 3?
 
M

McBain

Member
This update gives more credibility to the hope that Halo 3's campaign will take the best elements of each of its predecessors while also standing out on its own merits to truly be epic. confirmed.
 
Tieno

Tieno

Member
Oh man! I like Frankie's constant reassurance of big, grand (and open) environments. Great update, I love'em ! If it wasn't for some awesome games that are still to come till Halo 3 the wait would be unbearable.
 
R

Router

Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew
Wait... Is this a new pic?

snowjob.jpg


I guess its old but I dont remember seeing it before.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
Giant enemy in the distance?

Taking bets on:

1) Drinol (thats the "Engineer" isnt it? They did allude to the H3 Covenant force being an "Excavation fleet" rather than an "Invasion fleet")

2) Flood Juggernaut (though the lack of other flood in the battle breakdown might rule this out - purely since anything else is alive nearby :D )

3) Gravemind on a march towards refuge.
 
J

JCBossman

Banned
This is weird, I was one of the EARLY Halo 1 guys, and talked up this game to anyone who listened. Now I am sorta turned off, by BOTH the FANATICAL nature of some fanboys, who know more about the "Halo Universe" than their OWN family, and the INSANE online crowd, who plays this game 5-6 a day,EVERYDAY, of course alot of these players who know EVERY MAP like the back of their hand, don't wanna play against OTHER skilled players, but casuals like me. It's very frustrating, in fact Halo 2 is the only game I bail out 40%of the time in the middle of a match because of the disgusting unbalanced nature of the players skills(mine are average)
 
U

USD

Member
*Tries to resist the hype of these Bungie threads because the hype will make me think that if Halo 3 is not the best console shooter ever, it will be a disappointment*
 
M

MightyHedgehog

Member
MarkMacD said:
This sort of update should be saved for a couple weeks, a month tops, before the game comes out. This early is just cruel. CRUEL.
Click to expand...
Agree. I try to avoid the Halo threads so I can play the game with a virgin mind to replicate the feeling of discovery that I had in the first game. By the time the second one hit, I was so informed and hyped up that the single player just didn't do it well enough for my expectations.

And, damn it, I read all of that which was posted at the top.

*avoids future Halo 3 threads that contain detail*
 
M

Muppet345

Member
MightyHedgehog said:
Agree. I try to avoid the Halo threads so I can play the game with a virgin mind to replicate the feeling of discovery that I had in the first game. By the time the second one hit, I was so informed and hyped up that the single player just didn't do it well enough for my expectations.
Click to expand...
I also went into Halo 2 blind. I was wondering if reading these weekly updates would spoil Halo 3 for me .. now I think I'll dodge them in the future. But they're so entertaining. :[
 
Jonsoncao

Jonsoncao

Banned
disappeared said:
Does anybody remember - from the gigantic Halo 2 feature that EGM ran a few years back - that "valley" scenario that Bungie talked about? Master Chief starts at the end of this valley, and there are Covenant approaching down the center. Immediately, there are several options presented to the player. First, you could hop on a Warthog and charge straight through for a direct assault. Second, you could hop on an ATV (before they got axed) and cruise up to the high edge of the valley to snipe the enemies - allowing your teammates to charge through and attack. There were a few other ways if I remember, but it sounded so damned cool. How you ran through the level is up to you. Ultimately the whole scenario was removed, but it sounded so awesome.

Any chance we'll see anything like that in Halo 3? Stinkles?
Click to expand...

nice!

in xbox its a pity we cant see such large scale scenario cuz of budget constraint
 
N

NinSoX

Banned
I really like the lighting and sharp texture work in this new picture. But I think the color of the armors are a bit too bright. There is something very eerily appealing to the use of colors in this series though..it's like it's not trying to be realistic but then it gives that sense and vibe of realism...can't explain it..it's on its own league.
 
ToyMachine228

ToyMachine228

Member
So psyched for Halo 3. While Halo 2's Campaign did let me down in the grand scheme of things...I still enjoyed it overall, the multiplayer lasted me forever and I have faith in Bungie.
 
M

Mr Vociferous

Member
giga said:
Hm. Looks very familiar yet different.
Click to expand...

It's a new pic. The other image (of combat on Snowbound) is in the screenshot gallery and can be found here. Hopefully this excerpt:

Next week, we’re going to have some very cool content for you

...means we're either going to get images of Halo 3's current build, like multiplayer screenshots or maybe some images of the new multiplayer maps for Halo 2. Either way, I'm psyched. Plus the "field report" summaries on the weapons that have myteriously vanished will be returning, apparently with some sort of new format. That should be pretty cool. Hopefully the links to old content and articles get retrofitted back to their original URLs soon and I saw some of the better weekly updates in the archive are missing for January and February.

You guys and your crazy drinol theories...

Is it just me or are the updates far more campaign-centric than the ones for Halo 2? Maybe this is because Halo 3's campaign is so great, maybe it's because Frank has developed a few more tricks in handling secrets, or maybe it's something else, but I'm digging this campaign love. Almost every update has a decent to sizeable section on the campaign or effects relevant to the campaign. Something I did not expect at all after this game was officially announced.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Mr Vociferous said:
Next week, we’re going to have some very cool content for you

...means we're either going to get images of Halo 3's current build, like multiplayer screenshots or maybe some images of the new multiplayer maps for Halo 2.
Click to expand...
I think it's referring to the other half of the sentence. :p

including a new look for the Vehicles and weapons specials we’ve shown you, and an accelerating sense of momentum game.
Click to expand...
I'm curious what "an accelerating sense of momentum game" means. Maybe it is the formal beta announcement, with pics. I have a feeling pics of the beta - or should I say, delta - will be very impressive. Also curious:

Variety being the spice of life, I dropped into our sandbox to look at the different variants of things – special types of Grunts, Brutes, Jackals and so on, but I was surprised to see how many different types of Marine there are. Not just physical types, but also states – there are injured, bloody and disheveled states for them too. Knowing what I know about the plot, that’s hardly surprising.
Click to expand...
Having those states in the game makes sense for a greater sense of realism - but plot related? Damn that's a tease.

That pic isn't new BTW - 1up.com and a few other sites host it. Bungie.net only put up a few of the shots.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Encounter Recipe:
Scary Post Apocalyptic Environment: 1
Phantoms: 3
Grunts: 14
Marines: 6
Brutes: 8
Jackals: 3
Wraiths: 3
Ghosts: 6
Mongoose: 1
Warthogs: 1
New version of old favorite: 1
Chief: 1
Giant Bad Guy in distance: 1
Frightening and Inexplicable Maelstrom: 1
Ancient Forerunner Artifact: 1
Click to expand...

Covenant: 25
Humans: 7
Vehicles: 15

That's 2-3x the biggest battles in Halo and Halo 2, right there. And that's an "average" encounter. I wonder if that same fight is even bigger on harder difficulties. This is exactly the kind of stuff I was hoping would be in H3. :D
 
M

Mr Vociferous

Member
I think the closest thing that comes to it are a few moments during "Two Betrayals." Specifically, the end of the level and that one segment with the Banshees and Hunters near the ice field.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Mr Vociferous said:
I think the closest thing that comes to it are a few moments during "Two Betrayals." Specifically, the end of the level and that one segment with the Banshees and Hunters near the ice field.
Click to expand...
If memory serves, you had up to three banshees, two wraiths, your vehicles and about ten Covenant (three Elites, two Hunters, pack of Grunts) at once. Plus, they were scattered around so you were never engaging all of them at once.

I hope there are more large-scale battles with lots of Marines in tow, like the beach landing on SC.
 
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