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[adamsapple]

FrankWza why are you so hung up on a few games not matching graphical features between SS and SX ? It's not like every SX and PS5 game has RT or 120hz either and the console makers promised those on a hardware level too ....

We know full well the Series S is capable of doing RT, and 120hz too. It's just a matter of a developers time and budgeting optimize for it.

IMO this only becomes an issue if the game content starts to get compromised for Series S. Which it hasn't so far.

 

[Lognor]

We don't have clear evidence that the supply was high. You say the bolded as if we have hardware sales numbers for the Xbox Series S or X. What do you consider "Large volumes"? Because I think some here are trying to make it seem as if selling the most in one holiday month equals high sells.


1. Amazon is not a good gauge for hardware sales.
2. We need real sales numbers. We NEED Microsoft to give us the goods. So far we can only rely on the rumor mill (from people that tend to know things when corporates want them keep secret).

Source on Amazon not being a good gauge? You know, THEY ARE THE LARGEST RETAILER IN THE US. Why would they not be a good gauge? Please tell me, if Amazon is not a good gauge for hardware sales, where is? You are really talking some amazing shit! Just making shit up as you go. It's hilarious.

And why do we NEED sales numbers? You want them, you don't need them. I'm guessing English isn't your first language.

 

[mckmas8808]

Source on Amazon not being a good gauge? You know, THEY ARE THE LARGEST RETAILER IN THE US. Why would they not be a good gauge? Please tell me, if Amazon is not a good gauge for hardware sales, where is? You are really talking some amazing shit! Just making shit up as you go. It's hilarious.

And why do we NEED sales numbers? You want them, you don't need them. I'm guessing English isn't your first language.

Look man.......lol

I've been on GAF for a couple decades, so I've seen my fair share of US sales threads. We've done many comparisons over the years. You'll either take my word for the bolded or not. Plus it super silly to argue the 2nd bolded part, but I'm starting to see a pattern with Xbox gamers in threads like this.

You guys seem to argue against needing sales numbers in some threads, but then completely push articles like this when it's pro-Xbox when they have relatively good sales numbers. You can't have it both ways! Choose. Do you care about hardware sales number or not?

 

[FrankWza]

FrankWza why are you so hung up on a few games not matching graphical features between SS and SX ? It's not like every SX and PS5 game has RT or 120hz either and the console makers promised those on a hardware level too ....

We know full well the Series S is capable of doing RT, and 120hz too. It's just a matter of a developers time and budgeting optimize for it.

IMO this only becomes an issue if the game content starts to get compromised for Series S. Which it hasn't so far.

Why Aren’t you or anyone else hung up on it? That’s the question. I’ve explained myself many times. Actually, just a few posts back yet again. It was supposed to be easy to just scale and get an s version going. Now it’s missing features that were promised and the UE5 matrix demo on s was called a “gargantuan effort “ to get running and DF said it looked “deformed”
That’s a lot of effort I’d like to see go towards the lead consoles, especially when we’re done with cross gen.

No, Frank, that's not shallow at all

Hopefully I'll see you in similar topics for other hardware numbers in the near future with this level of gusto Frank. But something tells me we won't .

how is this shallow. One side of your mouth says the article is obvious. That makes the article itself shallow. Where are the numbers? The other side says it’s congratulating it on something that is obvious enough that it shouldn’t get kudos. Which is it? How many units did it outsell the PS5 by? That’s shallow

Would be a great comeback if the Switch and the literal piles of it you can find in every big electronics store didn't exist.

is the switch mentioned in this article? The only mention of Nintendo is the nes. Sony and Microsoft are mentioned though.

 

[Lognor]

Look man.......lol

I've been on GAF for a couple decades, so I've seen my fair share of US sales threads. We've done many comparisons over the years. You'll either take my word for the bolded or not. Plus it super silly to argue the 2nd bolded part, but I'm starting to see a pattern with Xbox gamers in threads like this.

You guys seem to argue against needing sales numbers in some threads, but then completely push articles like this when it's pro-Xbox when they have relatively good sales numbers. You can't have it both ways! Choose. Do you care about hardware sales number or not?

If you've done all these comparisons over decades then share your work! Let us see how Amazon is irrelvant when it comes to hardware sales. You've done this for decades. It should be extremely easy for you to pull that date. So please, pull it. I'll wait. And no, I won't take your word at it. You've posted zero links, zero sources, zero articles to back up any of what you've said. I'm just asking for one source. Just one. You've done this for decades so it should take but a second. Thanks in advance.

We don't NEED numbers when we have data to say that the XSS outsold the PS5 in November. That's comparative. Numbers not needed. Numbers would be nice. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have numbers. But we don't need them in this instance. XSS sold more than PS5 in November. That's enough.

 

[adamsapple]

Look man.......lol

I've been on GAF for a couple decades, so I've seen my fair share of US sales threads. We've done many comparisons over the years. You'll either take my word for the bolded or not. Plus it super silly to argue the 2nd bolded part, but I'm starting to see a pattern with Xbox gamers in threads like this.

You guys seem to argue against needing sales numbers in some threads, but then completely push articles like this when it's pro-Xbox when they have relatively good sales numbers. You can't have it both ways! Choose. Do you care about hardware sales number or not?

Microsoft stopped giving out sales numbers like half a decade ago, we only get vague generalizations of poll positions from NPD, there's nothing really anything "Xbox gamers" can do about it, and constantly asking them to provide numbers as a GOTCHA that they clearly can't doesn't help the discussion along in any way.

Without concrete numbers, we don't really have much to go on except sources like Amazon's best sellers to see what's selling more between devices, and Series S just happens to be the best selling console via that one big retailer at the moment. That's the only solid info we can get as non NPD folks.

Why Aren’t you or anyone else hung up on it? That’s the question. I’ve explained myself many times. Actually, just a few posts back yet again. It was supposed to be easy to just scale and get an s version going. Now it’s missing features that were promised and the UE5 matrix demo on s was called a “gargantuan effort “ to get running and DF said it looked “deformed”
That’s a lot of effort I’d like to see go towards the lead consoles, especially when we’re done with cross gen.

I'm, personally, not hung up about it because what's cut is not a part of the game per-say. RT, 120hz are optional features. If we start coming to a scenario where Series S will get reduced or compromised levels in a game, lesser MP lobbies for MP games like last-gen, or just straight up cut-content because its too weak to deliver it (like how the PS3/360 versions of Crysis cut the flying level), then I'll be there with you as that'd be a real issue.

how is this shallow. One side of your mouth says the article is obvious. That makes the article itself shallow. Where are the numbers? The other side says it’s congratulating it on something that is obvious enough that it shouldn’t get kudos. Which is it? How many units did it outsell the PS5 by? That’s shallow

See first part of my reply for this.

Again, MS doesn't give out numbers for whatever reason anymore. We only get the bare info we do from NPD. There's nothing we can do about it except extrapolate from articles like the ones in OP.

 

[DarkMage619]

I don’t know why you’re bringing hardware into the conversation. They promised the same experience per game and have not always delivered. See halo and GotG. Anything can probably be scaled when you remove enough to get it running. That takes time and effort and resources that the lead consoles can use in their dev time. Yet they’re still removing promised features in games that the x has.

This strikes me as being disingenuous Frank. MS has 100% control of the hardware. When they promised the same experience that is what they are talking about. They promised the XSS would be capable of raytracing, that it would have an SSD, that it has Zen2 CPU and RDNA2 GPU. The XSS also offers FPS boost, VRR, and quick resume. They have no control over what features developers choose to use or not. Even internal studios make games they want to make using the features they want. The hardware team can only provide the canvas not dictate the pictures drawn.

Of course you know that because Sony said the PS5 supported 4K yet Returnal renders internally at 1080p. That doesn't mean Sony lied about the PS5's capabilities. Sony never promised all PS5 games would have raytracing and be in 4K and neither did MS yet here you are creating a standard that no system has ever had. Very curious.

FrankWza why are you so hung up on a few games not matching graphical features between SS and SX ? It's not like every SX and PS5 game has RT or 120hz either and the console makers promised those on a hardware level too ....

We know full well the Series S is capable of doing RT, and 120hz too. It's just a matter of a developers time and budgeting optimize for it.

IMO this only becomes an issue if the game content starts to get compromised for Series S. Which it hasn't so far.

He's just a 'concerned' citizen for all those XSS owners out there. He is losing sleep because the XSS isn't meeting his imaginary standard. Still want his answer about if 120fps games are so important what does it say that the XSS has more games at that frame rate than his preferred platform. Seems like he should be more concerned for himself.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I don’t know why you’re bringing hardware into the conversation. They promised the same experience per game and have not always delivered. See halo and GotG. Anything can probably be scaled when you remove enough to get it running. That takes time and effort and resources that the lead consoles can use in their dev time. Yet they’re still removing promised features in games that the x has.
Edit: and PS5

They promised the same experience, as in gameplay and having the same content. I don't ever remember Microsoft saying the same "experience" as in graphical fidelity, it was known from the jump that games on S would be like those on X but at lower resolution. Now, they DID overpromise on it being a 1440p60 machine because a good deal of games aren't hitting that, but that's still only WRT resolution and framerate. All of the same graphical features are supported by the console at hardware level, and most games feature them in practice.

Most importantly, the game logic and content is the exact same, so by that definition they are bringing the same experience...just at lower resolution (and maybe framerate).

We don't have clear evidence that the supply was high. You say the bolded as if we have hardware sales numbers for the Xbox Series S or X. What do you consider "Large volumes"? Because I think some here are trying to make it seem as if selling the most in one holiday month equals high sells.

We have estimates from specific trusted sources, and we have the common sense that these are mainstream consoles selling to an audience of millions so by virtue supply will be high enough to at least attempt satiating that.

We are talking about holiday sales to some extent, but also general year-round. Like any other console there will be months where it doesn't sell gangbusters, but it's still moving millions annually. That's high volume, just less high volume than PS5.

1. Amazon is not a good gauge for hardware sales.
2. We need real sales numbers. We NEED Microsoft to give us the goods. So far we can only rely on the rumor mill (from people that tend to know things when corporates want them keep secret).

No. YOU need them to give you "the goods". Most of us are content with what data is provided, and we can use guided extrapolation and some context skills to make relatively accurate estimates from there.

Microsoft are hardly the only company that doesn't report hardware sales volumes, other massive entities like Apple take a similar approach. At the end of the day, we know where these companies are doing in the market finance-wise because they are worth over $2 trillion, and bringing in $60+ billion in pure net profits annually. And, in Microsoft's case, they are still putting big funding into Xbox-related initiatives, which would support the notion that the division is doing well enough for them to justify continued big spending and funding of investments.

While it would be nice to get console sales numbers, unless NPD leaks them (like they did for November) we won't get them from Microsoft, and that's okay. I don't have stock in the company, I'm not a bean counter and I don't need their internal numbers to make decent educated guesses at where they are sitting at, neither do a few other folks. The only ones that feel in desperate need for those very specific numbers, probably have other reasons for needing them.

And I don't think those are probably reasons with well-measured intentions.

 

[mckmas8808]

If you've done all these comparisons over decades then share your work! Let us see how Amazon is irrelvant when it comes to hardware sales. You've done this for decades. It should be extremely easy for you to pull that date. So please, pull it. I'll wait. And no, I won't take your word at it. You've posted zero links, zero sources, zero articles to back up any of what you've said. I'm just asking for one source. Just one. You've done this for decades so it should take but a second. Thanks in advance.

We don't NEED numbers when we have data to say that the XSS outsold the PS5 in November. That's comparative. Numbers not needed. Numbers would be nice. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have numbers. But we don't need them in this instance. XSS sold more than PS5 in November. That's enough.

You do the work. It's on you now. If you want to be a crazy person to think Amazon sales numbers = US total sales number, then be my guest. We'll sit back and just laugh. No one said Amazon is irrelvant when it comes to hardware sales. Only you said that. And we do NEED the data if we want to be accurate about what the XSS is selling out here. But I know for person like yourself, actual numbers is something you don't "REALLY" want. It'll hurt your console warring.

This information below shows you that the XSS is not being made in huge numbers. It only sold more due to lack of supply, not due to higher demand.

Microsoft stopped giving out sales numbers like half a decade ago, we only get vague generalizations of poll positions from NPD, there's nothing really anything "Xbox gamers" can do about it, and constantly asking them to provide numbers as a GOTCHA that they clearly can't doesn't help the discussion along in any way.

Without concrete numbers, we don't really have much to go on except sources like Amazon's best sellers to see what's selling more between devices, and Series S just happens to be the best selling console via that one big retailer at the moment. That's the only solid info we can get as non NPD folks.

See first part of my reply for this.

Again, MS doesn't give out numbers for whatever reason anymore. We only get the bare info we do from NPD. There's nothing we can do about it except extrapolate from articles like the ones in OP.

We kinda do know the reason though. And so my point is, some of those "Xbox gamers" should probably refrain from making clear statements when we don't have all the information. And here I'm ONLY talking about suggesting that Sony screwed up by not having their own Xbox Series S version.

 

[mckmas8808]

No. YOU need them to give you "the goods". Most of us are content with what data is provided, and we can use guided extrapolation and some context skills to make relatively accurate estimates from there.

Microsoft are hardly the only company that doesn't report hardware sales volumes, other massive entities like Apple take a similar approach. At the end of the day, we know where these companies are doing in the market finance-wise because they are worth over $2 trillion, and bringing in $60+ billion in pure net profits annually. And, in Microsoft's case, they are still putting big funding into Xbox-related initiatives, which would support the notion that the division is doing well enough for them to justify continued big spending and funding of investments.

While it would be nice to get console sales numbers, unless NPD leaks them (like they did for November) we won't get them from Microsoft, and that's okay. I don't have stock in the company, I'm not a bean counter and I don't need their internal numbers to make decent educated guesses at where they are sitting at, neither do a few other folks. The only ones that feel in desperate need for those very specific numbers, probably have other reasons for needing them.

And I don't think those are probably reasons with well-measured intentions.

No WE need the numbers if people are going to say things like "Sony screwed up by not making their own mini PS5 (aka PS5 Series S). For someone to say that, they'd need more data to support that thought. As of now, there's literally no reason to believe if Sony made a Series S version of the PS5 for $300 that it'll be in high supply and in most online retailer stores.

Only console fanboys root "against" having solid numbers. Me wanting them isn't bad at all. Educated guessing are cool, but it's clearly not as good as it used to be. I was on GAF when we used to get raw numbers from NPD on a monthly basis. The console wars were still happening, but at least people couldn't just create their own narrative and it take hold anywhere.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

This information below shows you that the XSS is not being made in huge numbers. It only sold more due to lack of supply, not due to higher demand.

Dude, you do realize you contradict your own logic in this very sentence? If the S isn't being made in high numbers, yet it outsold Series X due to supply, and it & Series X outsold PS5 due to it being in low supply, then that means it sold higher with a TIGHTER margin of supply relative to its demand.

In other words, the ratio of its demand relative to its supply is closer, not further apart, considering that Series outsold PS5 in November NPD, and Series S outsold Series X at the same time. All of this to say, the chasm in demand you want to believe exists between Series S and the other two systems isn't nearly as large as you're make-believing it to be, even if there is some actual delineation in demand between the two groups of systems.

Your problem here is quantification: you're trying to quantify the gap in demand as something seismic and at a massive scale, when in reality that demand gap is probably a great deal smaller. Not small enough to fall within a margin of error, of course, but small enough to probably be no more spread out than the lower side of double-digits. I strongly doubt there is even near a 50% gap in demand between Series S and Series X/PS5 when you take all gamer demographics into account (not just the hardcore/core early adopters, who are obviously going to prefer PS5 & Series X).

No WE need the numbers if people are going to say things like "Sony screwed up by not making their own mini PS5 (aka PS5 Series S). For someone to say that, they'd need more data to support that thought. As of now, there's literally no reason to believe if Sony made a Series S version of the PS5 for $300 that it'll be in high supply and in most online retailer stores.

Only console fanboys root "against" having solid numbers. Me wanting them isn't bad at all. Educated guessing are cool, but it's clearly not as good as it used to be. I was on GAF when we used to get raw numbers from NPD on a monthly basis. The console wars were still happening, but at least people couldn't just create their own narrative and it take hold anywhere.

No one's rooting against having solid numbers, at least not on my end. I just choose to operate within a reasonable boundary of reality, whereas some of you are flailing away at something that has a near-zero shot of happening, and in turn are using that as a way to suggest a company is "hiding" something. The truth is, if they were hiding something, at least one shareholder would have found it out, and probably start to leak it among other shareholders. News would get out, and share prices would be negatively affected, however little, especially if said company could not provide proof against the claims. That doesn't even get into the issue that if they were to be hiding something, and covering it up, the SEC and other agency bodies would like to have a word or two with that company, maybe even a deeper investigation, and you'd get shareholders suing.

So with that in mind, it seems like a lot of the people who continue to insist that Microsoft "give up the numbers", as if by not providing them they are hiding performance, might in fact be the fanboys in this scenario. I'm not saying you wanting them is bad, hell I wouldn't mind them, either. The difference is I'm not going about absolutely demanding they give them up or else I get to hold on to some back-of-mind belief they are obfuscating real performance and hiding numbers to fool people, when very real governmental agencies and very real investors would be among the first to notice something was up, and go after very real legal consequences.

I'm not even going to touch the "PS5 Series S" stuff; for one I don't think you can label everyone suggesting that to be a console warrior doing it in bad faith against Sony, maybe they just genuinely want a cheaper, more readily available PS5? Maybe they're thinking of it from a technological POV, in terms of a cheaper product in the PS ecosystem that could provide a better product strategy for the future? You make the assumption they only do it for FUD narratives and fanboyism but that might say more about you than it does them.

 

[Hitchyhero]

I’m starting to think a lot of people that claim to have a series x actually have a series s.

Then why isn’t there an article about how, 2 days before Christmas, the one console you can actually buy is still sitting on shelves and available online at every major retailer Including a bundle with 2 games?
Is what I just said untrue or not fascinating? Does it not paint a picture considering the lead consoles go for double retail or close to it on resell sites?

Thats literally what the article is about!

 

[adamsapple]

Thats literally what the article is about!

I swear it feels like I've said the same thing at least 5 times in this topic already, lol.

 

[JackMcGunns]

If Series S is the majority console, its not good for both Series X and PS5 as next gen games going to be downgraded for Series S.

The Matrix Unreal Engine 5 just proved that…

oh wait

 

[MasterCornholio]

SHARED FEATURES OF NEXT GEN​

Xbox Velocity Architecture
Quick Resume
DirectX Raytracing
Variable Rate Shading
Spatial Sound
Gaming at up to 120FPS

Compare Xbox Series X vs. Xbox Series S Consoles | Xbox

See the difference between Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. Compare features of these next-gen consoles like gaming resolution, specs, prices, and more.

www.xbox.com

From my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong).

The Series S has the same RT hardware that the Series X has. However with the way RT works in RDNA2 it's dependent on the CUs. So the more CUs you have the more RT hardware the GPU gets. Which means the Series X is more capable of RT than the Series S is.

What this means for developers is sometimes the Series X has enough RT hardware for their needs but other times the lack of RT hardware stops the Series S from getting it in some games. Resident Evil Village has RT on both systems (for example) but the Series S struggles with it unlike the Series X. Im guessing when developers cut it out of the S version it's because there isn't enough RT hardware to run the game well with RT enabled.

Just checking in to make sure I understand how RDNA2 RT works because I know it's different than Nvidia's solution which uses dedicated hardware for it (Tensor cores I believe they are called).

 

[Lognor]

You do the work. It's on you now. If you want to be a crazy person to think Amazon sales numbers = US total sales number, then be my guest. We'll sit back and just laugh. No one said Amazon is irrelvant when it comes to hardware sales. Only you said that. And we do NEED the data if we want to be accurate about what the XSS is selling out here. But I know for person like yourself, actual numbers is something you don't "REALLY" want. It'll hurt your console warring.

This information below shows you that the XSS is not being made in huge numbers. It only sold more due to lack of supply, not due to higher demand.





We kinda do know the reason though. And so my point is, some of those "Xbox gamers" should probably refrain from making clear statements when we don't have all the information. And here I'm ONLY talking about suggesting that Sony screwed up by not having their own Xbox Series S version.

No. I won't do the work. You're the one making these claims. Either put up or shut up. I'm guessing you won't (and can't) put up. So we WILL go by what Amazon shows and it shows that the Series S is selling a lot. You're just going to have to deal with that. That is the general consensus. That must drive you nuts, but unless you can prove otherwise, you should just go along with that.

I don't know why you are claiming anyone said that "Amazon sales numbers equal US total sales." That's absurd. You just made that up on your own, didn't you? Let's try this again. Amazon is THE LARGEST RETAILER IN THE US. To say that sales on Amazon are not indicative (note the operative word here) of US sales is questionable, especially since you cannot provide a source otherwise. You can't and you won't. It's as simple as that. So yes, Amazon is indicative of US retail sales and it shows that the Series S is in hot demand.

When the series S is in the top 10 on Amazon (numbers 9 and 20 currently) it's laughable to say that the Series S is not being sold in huge numbers. Again, Amazon is THE LARGEST RETAILER IN THE US. In the number 11 spot on Amazon is the Switch Oled, which we KNOW is selling huge numbers. So how can the Series S, at spot number 9, not be selling huge numbers? Can you explain this? Are you now going to try to say that the best sellers list is not factual? That it's a made up list by Amazon, maybe even paid for by these manufacturers to make us think their products are more popular than they actually are. Is that it? If not, what is it? Please elaborate.

 

[kingfey]

We need real sales numbers. We NEED Microsoft to give us the goods. So far we can only rely on the rumor mill (from people that tend to know things when corporates want them keep secret

Look at Japan chart. That is the only numbers we have xsx vs xss. The little champ sold alot.

Xbox Series S – 355 (53,225)

Vs

Xbox Series X – 450 (70,908

And Japan is the weakest market for xbox. Considering the difference between the 2 console is 17k, we can say, there is huge demand for it. And this is from a country that doesn't like xbox that much.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

From my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong).

The Series S has the same RT hardware that the Series X has. However with the way RT works in RDNA2 it's dependent on the CUs. So the more CUs you have the more RT hardware the GPU gets. Which means the Series X is more capable of RT than the Series S is.

What this means for developers is sometimes the Series X has enough RT hardware for their needs but other times the lack of RT hardware stops the Series S from getting it in some games. Resident Evil Village has RT on both systems (for example) but the Series S struggles with it unlike the Series X. Im guessing when developers cut it out of the S version it's because there isn't enough RT hardware to run the game well with RT enabled.

Just checking in to make sure I understand how RDNA2 RT works because I know it's different than Nvidia's solution which uses dedicated hardware for it (Tensor cores I believe they are called).

In general yes, that's how it works with RDNA2. The BVH traversal intersections leverage the TMUs, and the TMUs are built into the CUs (4 TMUs per CU IIRC).

How well Series S handles RT compared to Series X comes down to optimization and the engine in question for sure, but some of that is also just dependent on the fact Series S has less hardware for RT than the X (or generally speaking, the PS5). So that is always going to compromise level of RT (and in some cases, presence of RT) on Series S compared to the other systems.

That said, the system IS capable of RT, and quite a few games leverage it there. FrankWza seems to be under mistaken belief Series S does not have hardware support for RT or other features of the DX12U featureset that Series X supports, which is the part in contention. Because that idea is just flat-out wrong; Series S is capable of all the same features of Series X, certainly in theory and in most real-world examples, in practice...

...just usually at lower resolutions and sometimes at a lower framerate.

 

[mckmas8808]

Dude, you do realize you contradict your own logic in this very sentence? If the S isn't being made in high numbers, yet it outsold Series X due to supply, and it & Series X outsold PS5 due to it being in low supply, then that means it sold higher with a TIGHTER margin of supply relative to its demand.

In other words, the ratio of its demand relative to its supply is closer, not further apart, considering that Series outsold PS5 in November NPD, and Series S outsold Series X at the same time. All of this to say, the chasm in demand you want to believe exists between Series S and the other two systems isn't nearly as large as you're make-believing it to be, even if there is some actual delineation in demand between the two groups of systems.

Your problem here is quantification: you're trying to quantify the gap in demand as something seismic and at a massive scale, when in reality that demand gap is probably a great deal smaller. Not small enough to fall within a margin of error, of course, but small enough to probably be no more spread out than the lower side of double-digits. I strongly doubt there is even near a 50% gap in demand between Series S and Series X/PS5 when you take all gamer demographics into account (not just the hardcore/core early adopters, who are obviously going to prefer PS5 & Series X).



No one's rooting against having solid numbers, at least not on my end. I just choose to operate within a reasonable boundary of reality, whereas some of you are flailing away at something that has a near-zero shot of happening, and in turn are using that as a way to suggest a company is "hiding" something. The truth is, if they were hiding something, at least one shareholder would have found it out, and probably start to leak it among other shareholders. News would get out, and share prices would be negatively affected, however little, especially if said company could not provide proof against the claims. That doesn't even get into the issue that if they were to be hiding something, and covering it up, the SEC and other agency bodies would like to have a word or two with that company, maybe even a deeper investigation, and you'd get shareholders suing.

So with that in mind, it seems like a lot of the people who continue to insist that Microsoft "give up the numbers", as if by not providing them they are hiding performance, might in fact be the fanboys in this scenario. I'm not saying you wanting them is bad, hell I wouldn't mind them, either. The difference is I'm not going about absolutely demanding they give them up or else I get to hold on to some back-of-mind belief they are obfuscating real performance and hiding numbers to fool people, when very real governmental agencies and very real investors would be among the first to notice something was up, and go after very real legal consequences.

I'm not even going to touch the "PS5 Series S" stuff; for one I don't think you can label everyone suggesting that to be a console warrior doing it in bad faith against Sony, maybe they just genuinely want a cheaper, more readily available PS5? Maybe they're thinking of it from a technological POV, in terms of a cheaper product in the PS ecosystem that could provide a better product strategy for the future? You make the assumption they only do it for FUD narratives and fanboyism but that might say more about you than it does them.

You are either missing the logic or playing dumb. And you are one of my favorite posters, so I know it isn't the latter. I didn't state that the gap of the demand "relative" to its supply is large. I never stated that the demand between the XSS and the XSX and\or the PS5 is massive. That's only you saying that. It's clear what I am saying. And some of the things I'm stating are also questions relative to the author of the article in the OP. Not everything I'm saying is a statement. Some of it are open questions that I'd like to have answers to. Something that "RAW NUMBERS" would help with. You know.......like I stated earlier.

1. It's obvious that the demand for the XSS is lower than the demand for the XSX and PS5. How much......I don't know (hence why I believe we need raw numbers).

2. Are we sure the XSS is out beating the PS5 this holiday season?

3. I'm always going to think ANY and ALL companies are hiding something when it chooses to release "certain" numbers, but not others. Don't tell me how many people "PLAYED" Forza Horizons 5, but then don't release how many people bought the game. If Telsa stopped giving numbers of how many Model 3s sold per quarter, I'm going to think they are hiding something. And I'm going to wonder why they stopped releasing numbers that they loved to release just a couple quarters prior.

4. Just because MS stopped releasing numbers doesn't mean they are hiding lies. PR matters and it's smart to always have the maximum amount of good PR, relative to the competition. It's smart business.

5. To me (my opinion) to state that Sony missed out by not making a $300 PS5 either totally misses the business model that both MS and Sony are on or it's straight console fanboyism. Again......not all companies need to copy each other on all fronts. I personally think Microsoft should have worked with Valve or Oculus to allow those VR headsets to work on the Xbox Series consoles, but I also understand that at this point VR doesn't fit with their current business model. That's me NOT being a fanboy of a company and thinking and speaking reasonably.

 

[mckmas8808]

No. I won't do the work. You're the one making these claims. Either put up or shut up. I'm guessing you won't (and can't) put up. So we WILL go by what Amazon shows and it shows that the Series S is selling a lot. You're just going to have to deal with that. That is the general consensus. That must drive you nuts, but unless you can prove otherwise, you should just go along with that.

I don't know why you are claiming anyone said that "Amazon sales numbers equal US total sales." That's absurd. You just made that up on your own, didn't you? Let's try this again. Amazon is THE LARGEST RETAILER IN THE US. To say that sales on Amazon are not indicative (note the operative word here) of US sales is questionable, especially since you cannot provide a source otherwise. You can't and you won't. It's as simple as that. So yes, Amazon is indicative of US retail sales and it shows that the Series S is in hot demand.

When the series S is in the top 10 on Amazon (numbers 9 and 20 currently) it's laughable to say that the Series S is not being sold in huge numbers. Again, Amazon is THE LARGEST RETAILER IN THE US. In the number 11 spot on Amazon is the Switch Oled, which we KNOW is selling huge numbers. So how can the Series S, at spot number 9, not be selling huge numbers? Can you explain this? Are you now going to try to say that the best sellers list is not factual? That it's a made up list by Amazon, maybe even paid for by these manufacturers to make us think their products are more popular than they actually are. Is that it? If not, what is it? Please elaborate.

Man.....you just can't stop console warring huh? Geez dude. Check my post below, for more context if you'd like. I can tell you are a rookie at understanding sales numbers.

Look at Japan chart. That is the only numbers we have xsx vs xss. The little champ sold alot.


Vs


And Japan is the weakest market for xbox. Considering the difference between the 2 console is 17k, we can say, there is huge demand for it. And this is from a country that doesn't like xbox that much.

Guys.......*sigh*

The estimates are the Xbox Series consoles sold about 600K in NA for the month of November. If we assume that XSS makes up 45% of all Xbox Series consoles sales........then we would be looking at 275K Xbox Series S consoles sold in November. That's a disgustingly low amount of hardware sold for that month. And then when you factor in that it's not always sold out.......that's where my "lower demand" statement comes from. I guess you guys aren't aware (since NPD doesn't put out raw numbers anymore and haven't for years) that normally consoles sell over 1 million units in NA in November. That's normal. It darn near literally happens every year. If you sell under 500K in November something HUGE has gone wrong. And it's been that way for many years.

 

[DarkMage619]

In general yes, that's how it works with RDNA2. The BVH traversal intersections leverage the TMUs, and the TMUs are built into the CUs (4 TMUs per CU IIRC).

How well Series S handles RT compared to Series X comes down to optimization and the engine in question for sure, but some of that is also just dependent on the fact Series S has less hardware for RT than the X (or generally speaking, the PS5). So that is always going to compromise level of RT (and in some cases, presence of RT) on Series S compared to the other systems.

That said, the system IS capable of RT, and quite a few games leverage it there. FrankWza seems to be under mistaken belief Series S does not have hardware support for RT or other features of the DX12U featureset that Series X supports, which is the part in contention. Because that idea is just flat-out wrong; Series S is capable of all the same features of Series X, certainly in theory and in most real-world examples, in practice...

...just usually at lower resolutions and sometimes at a lower framerate.

Frank knows but he seems to be on some sort of crusade to show MS was not being honest about the capabilities of the XSS. The system is $300 it was never going to run games the exact same way as a system with a bigger GPU just like games run at higher resolutions and effects with an RTX 3090 vs RTX 3060. Still that $300 box does things a $400 box cannot do and that is pretty durn impressive.

 

[Lognor]

Man.....you just can't stop console warring huh? Geez dude. Check my post below, for more context if you'd like. I can tell you are a rookie at understanding sales numbers.



Guys.......*sigh*

The estimates are the Xbox Series consoles sold about 600K in NA for the month of November. If we assume that XSS makes up 45% of all Xbox Series consoles sales........then we would be looking at 275K Xbox Series S consoles sold in November. That's a disgustingly low amount of hardware sold for that month. And then when you factor in that it's not always sold out.......that's where my "lower demand" statement comes from. I guess you guys aren't aware (since NPD doesn't put out raw numbers anymore and haven't for years) that normally consoles sell over 1 million units in NA in November. That's normal. It darn near literally happens every year. If you sell under 500K in November something HUGE has gone wrong. And it's been that way for many years.

LOL. How am I console warring? All along I've said the Series S outsold the PS5, which is a fact. But now that is console warring? And when you can't back up the nonsense you're spouting with sources and make absurd comments like Amazon sales don't matter, I think it is you who is console warring. For that reason, you are seriously salty about the success of the Series S. Why else, other than console warring, would you be so upset by this? I'm not console warring. You are. You are really deflecting. And you still can't back up any of the nonsense you've spouted with sources. You, in fact, are the rookie. And you call me a rookie at understanding sales numbers. Something you've allegedly been following for decades. And yet, as you well know, there are no sales numbers. Point me to the numbers! We don't get numbers, outside of Japan. What numbers?! We know the Series S outsold the PS5 in November. We do not know numbers. There is a distinct difference. Do you not understand this?

And you should understand that supply and demand are two different things. Because there is stock does not mean there is low demand. Maybe you should do some studying up on economics. Clear rookie mistakes you make.

 

[dcmk7]

FrankWza seems to be under mistaken belief Series S does not have hardware support for RT or other features of the DX12U featureset that Series X supports, which is the part in contention

I think you might be mistaken, from what I can see (and admittedly I haven't read it all) he's corrected you on this, at least once, and you keep repeating it?

I don’t know why you’re bringing hardware into the conversation. They promised the same experience per game and have not always delivered. See halo and GotG. Anything can probably be scaled when you remove enough to get it running. That takes time and effort and resources that the lead consoles can use in their dev time. Yet they’re still removing promised features in games that the x has.
Edit: and PS5

Is a made up narrative easier to dismiss?

 

[mckmas8808]

LOL. How am I console warring? All along I've said the Series S outsold the PS5, which is a fact. But now that is console warring? And when you can't back up the nonsense you're spouting with sources and make absurd comments like Amazon sales don't matter, I think it is you who is console warring. For that reason, you are seriously salty about the success of the Series S. Why else, other than console warring, would you be so upset by this? I'm not console warring. You are. You are really deflecting. And you still can't back up any of the nonsense you've spouted with sources. You, in fact, are the rookie. And you call me a rookie at understanding sales numbers. Something you've allegedly been following for decades. And yet, as you well know, there are no sales numbers. Point me to the numbers! We don't get numbers, outside of Japan. What numbers?! We know the Series S outsold the PS5 in November. We do not know numbers. There is a distinct difference. Do you not understand this?

And you should understand that supply and demand are two different things. Because there is stock does not mean there is low demand. Maybe you should do some studying up on economics. Clear rookie mistakes you make.

I know economics man. You seem to lack the understanding that just because the Series S sold more on Black Friday than the PS5 doesn't mean it's in higher demand. I'm starting to wonder if we are talking pass each other at this point. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.

I'm not capable of being salty about the Series S selling well, because it literally doesn't change my life at all. I don't care 1% if it succeeds are not. Actually, I'd care alot if the XSX wasn't selling well. That would freak me out and make me upset personally. But the XSS?.....Who cares. But I do have a question for you.


How do we KNOW the Xbox Series S outsold the PS5 in the month of November?

 

[kingfey]

Man.....you just can't stop console warring huh? Geez dude. Check my post below, for more context if you'd like. I can tell you are a rookie at understanding sales numbers.



Guys.......*sigh*

The estimates are the Xbox Series consoles sold about 600K in NA for the month of November. If we assume that XSS makes up 45% of all Xbox Series consoles sales........then we would be looking at 275K Xbox Series S consoles sold in November. That's a disgustingly low amount of hardware sold for that month. And then when you factor in that it's not always sold out.......that's where my "lower demand" statement comes from. I guess you guys aren't aware (since NPD doesn't put out raw numbers anymore and haven't for years) that normally consoles sell over 1 million units in NA in November. That's normal. It darn near literally happens every year. If you sell under 500K in November something HUGE has gone wrong. And it's been that way for many years.

Did you check the ps5 too? Because both consoles had huge shortage.

Remember, Sony has more waiver than MS. And it didnt sell alot, compared to Xbox consoles.

Xss should have a higher rate, compared to XSX, if you account the waiver numbers between MS and Sony. Since XSS takes less wafer, compared to xss, MS can make more xss, which is why XSeries outsold ps5. From this, we can deduce that XSS sold more than 275k.

Your issue about the numbers goes back to shortages. Both consoles are having huge shortage. The ps5 was 2k total in japan. That is how bad shortages is. Japan is the home of PS5, yet those numbers are utterly shit, for the ps5, in its own territory.

 

[MasterCornholio]

In general yes, that's how it works with RDNA2. The BVH traversal intersections leverage the TMUs, and the TMUs are built into the CUs (4 TMUs per CU IIRC).

How well Series S handles RT compared to Series X comes down to optimization and the engine in question for sure, but some of that is also just dependent on the fact Series S has less hardware for RT than the X (or generally speaking, the PS5). So that is always going to compromise level of RT (and in some cases, presence of RT) on Series S compared to the other systems.

That said, the system IS capable of RT, and quite a few games leverage it there. FrankWza seems to be under mistaken belief Series S does not have hardware support for RT or other features of the DX12U featureset that Series X supports, which is the part in contention. Because that idea is just flat-out wrong; Series S is capable of all the same features of Series X, certainly in theory and in most real-world examples, in practice...

...just usually at lower resolutions and sometimes at a lower framerate.

I definitely didn't get that impression from FrankWza .

I believe he's trying to argue that if people sell the Series S as a system that offers the Series X experience but at a lower resolution it's not correct for them to do. That will be true for some games but it won't be true for others so you really can't sell the Series S as just a lower resolution Series X experience since it isn't true for anything.

Whether or not Microsoft was doing that is up for debate. I can see how people can interpret Jason's comments to mean two different things.

I'm not seeing him pull Mister X Media and claim that Jason lied about the Series S having RT hardware.

 

[Warnen]

 

[Kenshin775]

Why waste time arguing with people who are saying the Series S sold only due to availability?

I mean Halo broke Steam records for a day 1 release and Forza had like 11 million players before Black Friday. Both recieved stellar reviews. BF and CoD underwhelmed so Halo was the must play FPS this year. Both games received a lot of attention through the media and major streamers playing it. Its called word of mouth and its how great products have been selling for centuries. Its obvious people didn't just buy the console because it was available. There were people that WANTED an Xbox.

 

[DarkMage619]

I definitely didn't get that impression from FrankWza .

I believe he's trying to argue that if people sell the Series S as a system that offers the Series X experience but at a lower resolution it's not correct for them to do. That will be true for some games but it won't be true for others so you really can't sell the Series S as just a lower resolution Series X experience since it isn't true for anything.

Whether or not Microsoft was doing that is up for debate. I can see how people can interpret Jason's comments to mean two different things.

I'm not seeing him pull Mister X Media and claim that Jason lied about the Series S having RT hardware.

Then please tell us all what experience the XSS doesn't have that the XSX does have? What features are the XSS missing? No one at MS said the XSS would use every feature it is capable of. They also never said the ONLY feature affected would be resolution. Those calls are made by developers not MS.

On top of that no matter what resolution the games run it all XSS' support the full hardware suite available on all Series platforms. Things like quick resume, FPS boost, and the SSD are on all XSS systems so it is completely reasonable for MS to claim the XSS is offering the same experience. There is no evidence Frank is being sincere with his 'concerns' about the XSS system.

Why waste time arguing with people who are saying the Series S sold only due to availability?

I mean Halo broke Steam records for a day 1 release and Forza had like 11 million players before Black Friday. Both recieved stellar reviews. BF and CoD underwhelmed so Halo was the must play FPS this year. Both games received a lot of attention through the media and major streamers playing it. Its called word of mouth and its how great products have been selling for centuries. Its obvious people didn't just buy the console because it was available. There were people that WANTED an Xbox.

Games being available for the Xbox platform seems to be one of the under reported stories. For an entire generation people claimed Xbox has no games. That couldn't be further from the truth now. But people now are claiming the only reason people buy the platform is because it is available for sale. Pretty sure software is playing an important role as well.

 

[squidilix]

If Series S is the majority console, its not good for both Series X and PS5 as next gen games going to be downgraded for Series S.

Is not good only for Series X.
They are more PS5 (DE have the same specs) than Xbox Series S & X

 

[Zeroing]

This thread

 

[MasterCornholio]

Then please tell us all what experience the XSS doesn't have that the XSX does have? What features are the XSS missing? No one at MS said the XSS would use every feature it is capable of. They also never said the ONLY feature affected would be resolution. Those calls are made by developers not MS.

On top of that no matter what resolution the games run it all XSS' support the full hardware suite available on all Series platforms. Things like quick resume, FPS boost, and the SSD are on all XSS systems so it is completely reasonable for MS to claim the XSS is offering the same experience. There is no evidence Frank is being sincere with his 'concerns' about the XSS system.


Games being available for the Xbox platform seems to be one of the under reported stories. For an entire generation people claimed Xbox has no games. That couldn't be further from the truth now. But people now are claiming the only reason people buy the platform is because it is available for sale. Pretty sure software is playing an important role as well.

I don't like pineapple on Pizza.

 

[dcmk7]

No one at MS said the XSS would use every feature it is capable of.

Not a single person has said this.

They also never said the ONLY feature affected would be resolution.

Jason Ronald explained that gamers who pick up the Series S will get the same experience as the XSX just at a reduced rendering resolution.

Those calls are made by developers not MS.

You're right here. Based on what the XSS is supposedly designed to do any feature that is added for XSX would scale for XSS. With minimal input. If RT was added for one would appear in both versions of the game.

Based on articles, tweets and analysis videos we know that there can be significant work for XSS versions. Just have to ask the guys at 4A games for that.

And even internal studios have dropped features altogether. It can be a lot of work.

This has been explained to you on numerous times now. People are allowed to have different opinions to you.

You don't seem to be able to form a consistent opinion. As someone has already mentioned you are constantly contradicting yourself.

Ah yes now playing a victim? How transparent. But you'll be happy to know the XSS has raytracing in this game so it looks like Jason Ronald's team has delivered yet again! It is really impressive seeing yet another title deliver the same core experience across both platforms. I'm sure you'll be the first to sing his praises right? Your concerns can be laid to rest finally.

 

[Aguero9320]

I couldn’t read past page five of this drivel.

So to sum up, it’s fair to say Series S is in stock because no one wants it but at the same time it’s somehow the best selling console, but only because it’s in stock but no one is really buying it, maybe five people at most, and eventhey don’t really want it because nobody actually wants the Series S but are being forced to buy it by forces unknown?

They all really want a PlayStation, right?

The mental gymnastics is just… awesome I think I might buy one just to help out with the sales. It could be small enough to travel with and help pass the time in hotels?

 

[mckmas8808]

Did you check the ps5 too? Because both consoles had huge shortage.

Remember, Sony has more waiver than MS. And it didnt sell alot, compared to Xbox consoles.

Xss should have a higher rate, compared to XSX, if you account the waiver numbers between MS and Sony. Since XSS takes less waiver, compared to xss, MS can make more xss, which is why XSeries outsold ps5. From this, we can deduce that XSS sold more than 275k.

Your issue about the numbers goes back to shortages. Both consoles are having huge shortage. The ps5 was 2k total in japan. That is how bad shortages is. Japan is the home of PS5, yet those numbers are utterly shit, for the ps5, in its own territory.

Did you mean to say wafer instead of waiver? If so, then yeah I get that. I understand that MS "can" make more XSS than XSX if they want, but do we know if they actually are? I don't think it's safe to deduce that MS is making more XSS consoles than XSX consoles. And we all know that Sony has sacrificed sales in Japan in order to sell more PS5s in America and western Europe. That much we know for a fact. So it doesn't matter that Japan is it's own territory. Which I think it's correct nowadays. I "think" Sony is making America, Playstation's home territory now. I think Sony made that change like 3 years ago.

 

[remember_spinal]

I couldn’t read past page five of this drivel.

So to sum up, it’s fair to say Series S is in stock because no one wants it but at the same time it’s somehow the best selling console, but only because it’s in stock but no one is really buying it, maybe five people at most, and eventhey don’t really want it because nobody actually wants the Series S but are being forced to buy it by forces unknown?

They all really want a PlayStation, right?

The mental gymnastics is just… awesome I think I might buy one just to help out with the sales. It could be small enough to travel with and help pass the time in hotels?

One poor kid will get a Series S this year, and it will be the origin story of how they became an anti-capitalist mass bomber

 

[DarkMage619]

I couldn’t read past page five of this drivel.

So to sum up, it’s fair to say Series S is in stock because no one wants it but at the same time it’s somehow the best selling console, but only because it’s in stock but no one is really buying it, maybe five people at most, and eventhey don’t really want it because nobody actually wants the Series S but are being forced to buy it by forces unknown?

They all really want a PlayStation, right?

The mental gymnastics is just… awesome I think I might buy one just to help out with the sales. It could be small enough to travel with and help pass the time in hotels?

And don't forget Jason Ronald lied to everybody about the capabilities of the XSS. It is actively denying people a next generation experience in ways that can never be clearly articulated. Something about a 120fps mode that the system supports more than other more expensive platforms or something like that. Some people just want the Xbox to fail and any success offends their sensibilities.

 

[nush]

This thread

The Wii outsold the 360 and PS3. Round 2.

 

[kingfey]

Did you mean to say wafer instead of waiver? If so, then yeah I get that. I understand that MS "can" make more XSS than XSX if they want, but do we know if they actually are? I don't think it's safe to deduce that MS is making more XSS consoles than XSX consoles. And we all know that Sony has sacrificed sales in Japan in order to sell more PS5s in America and western Europe. That much we know for a fact. So it doesn't matter that Japan is it's own territory. Which I think it's correct nowadays. I "think" Sony is making America, Playstation's home territory now. I think Sony made that change like 3 years ago.

Wafer, sounds like waiver, when I say it in my mind.

NA sales this month had xbox a head. And with Japan sales being weak, ps5 should have issues with its major stocks.

The problem is Sony has more wafers than Xbox. They should be able to produce more than xbox.

The only explanation would be xss, which covers MS lack of wafers. Any time xbox is a head of ps5, in term of console, expect XSS being the primary reason, why xbox is clear of Playstation in the NDP.

In the US, Playstation is popular. It has to do with Xbox one fucking up all x360 good will.

 

[Del_X]

Consumers don't buy shit they don't want. Not hard.

 

[Bernardougf]

Consumers don't buy shit they don't want. Not hard.

Consumers sometimes have to buy the second or third option because the first two arent avaible.. not that hard

 

[Lognor]

I know economics man. You seem to lack the understanding that just because the Series S sold more on Black Friday than the PS5 doesn't mean it's in higher demand. I'm starting to wonder if we are talking pass each other at this point. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.

I'm not capable of being salty about the Series S selling well, because it literally doesn't change my life at all. I don't care 1% if it succeeds are not. Actually, I'd care alot if the XSX wasn't selling well. That would freak me out and make me upset personally. But the XSS?.....Who cares. But I do have a question for you.


How do we KNOW the Xbox Series S outsold the PS5 in the month of November?

You continue to discount the Amazon sales chart. You initially responded that Amazon is not indicative of the rest of the market for hardware sales. Where did you get this information? You've not been able to back anything up about that statement. Most likely you made it up. If you can't prove otherwise drop that nonsense. Demand is demand. Sales is demand. The Series S is charting very high on Amazon SALES charts. Those are sales (i.e. demand).

It does sound like the Series S's success is affecting you. You've spent a lot of time responding to my messages trying to downplay its success. If it doesn't change your life why do you continue to respond?

NPD stated Series outsold PS5. Are you doubting that now?

 

[Zeroing]

The Wii outsold the 360 and PS3. Round 2.

I remember the fights over that… damn I’m old

 

[MacReady13]

Look man.......lol

I've been on GAF for a couple decades, so I've seen my fair share of US sales threads. We've done many comparisons over the years. You'll either take my word for the bolded or not. Plus it super silly to argue the 2nd bolded part, but I'm starting to see a pattern with Xbox gamers in threads like this.

You guys seem to argue against needing sales numbers in some threads, but then completely push articles like this when it's pro-Xbox when they have relatively good sales numbers. You can't have it both ways! Choose. Do you care about hardware sales number or not?

I thought they weren't worried about console sales and it was ALL about Game Pass sub numbers? Isn't that what Microsoft REALLY want, or does that change from week to week depending on sales numbers???

 

[twilo99]

The Matrix Unreal Engine 5 just proved that…

oh wait

Don't mention that... we simply don't talk about it.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Just came back from our local WalMart and the Xbox display case was filled with Series S about 15 in total

With 2 days before Christmas wonder how many will actually sell as last minute gifts at this point

 

[ReBurn]

Consumers sometimes have to buy the second or third option because the first two arent avaible.. not that hard

For commodities, maybe. They don't have the name brand flour so you're forced to buy the store brand or you don't eat. Or you're allergic to the medicine your doctor wants to prescribe so you have to use something not quite as effective to treat your illness.

Nobody is forced to buy XSS because they can't find XSX or PS5. Nobody ever died from lack of video game consoles that I'm aware of.

 

[Boy bawang]

I very much like the idea behind the XSS but I admit being disappointed that it doesn't punch above its weight and instead performs "as expected" more or less; I did believe them when they promised the exact same experience at a lower resolution, but the compromises so far are just a bit above the threshold to annoy me if I got one. It's not rational to think like that when comparing the raw hardware numbers, but my tastes don't have to be rational.

 

[SlimySnake]

Just came back from our local WalMart and the Xbox display case was filled with Series S about 15 in total

With 2 days before Christmas wonder how many will actually sell as last minute gifts at this point

lol i was at GameStop last night and they had four sitting in their display case. Then one guy walked in to return his Series s. I was like which blue rat is this.

 

[DarkMage619]

I very much like the idea behind the XSS but I admit being disappointed that it doesn't punch above its weight and instead performs "as expected" more or less; I did believe them when they promised the exact same experience at a lower resolution, but the compromises so far are just a bit above the threshold to annoy me if I got one. It's not rational to think like that when comparing the raw hardware numbers, but my tastes don't have to be rational.

We really need to define this 'experience' people are talking about. The XSS has the exact same feature set as the XSX. Not one person can name a missing feature. Also what was this 'promise'? I've said numerous times no hardware manufacturer can 'promise' that games on their platforms will all have the same graphical features. They can only 'promise' that every system will come with an SSD/CPU/GPU or support a feature, not that that feature will be used by a developer. You are free to not want an XSS, seems plenty of other people like the system just fine, but there appears to be an imaginary 'promise' MS hasn't met and that seems pretty silly.