Probably one of the worst posts in here.
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California Funds First Prisoner Sex-Reassignment Surgery and Move to Women's Prison
- Thread starter Horse Armour
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Probably one of the worst posts in here.
Nobody really goes looking for this kind of information. They just assume their taxes are funding bus stops and school lunches.
Octavianus
Banned
Hey another trans thread where most of gaf is acting absolutely disgusting once again.
I'm not even surprised anymore at this point.
I'm not even surprised anymore at this point.
Considering she's getting sex reassignment surgery, that means she must have been under hormone treatment for at least two years, if not more, so her muscle structures and physical strength nearly match that of a cisgender woman considering the physical changes that treatment does to someone. And I'm sure those inside the women's prison are just as violent as her, some even more so. Now tell me, why shouldn't she be transferred to a female prison facility if she is female and has performed the final, necessary surgery that seals that deal?
It's mostly ignorance of the subject matter of transgender healthcare follow by a clear misunderstanding of the justice system and tax payers' contribution to said system, and the view of revenge base punishment. I've only seen a small bit of actual hateful rhetoric here.
Straight Edge
Member
Basically it boils down to some people in here don't believe gender dysphoria is a real/serious condition and the SRS is something done on a whim. The whole "but taxes and the innocent people who need SRS" is window dressing for their transphobia and I'm shocked a harder stance hasn't been taken.
Simple scenario; a convicted murderer breaks his leg in prison. Do you set his leg or let him deal with it?
Simple scenario; a convicted murderer breaks his leg in prison. Do you set his leg or let him deal with it?
Straight Edge
Member
What if the inmate needed an appendix removed? Do you do the operation or let it burst?
It's more like EVERY trans person who need the treatment should have free access to it. It don't matter if such person is a criminal or not. It's seems Ms. Quine isn't going to be released, so instead she will have a less miserable life.
This is a disgusting post.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Different scenario, one is a life threatening medical emergency.
What other elective surgeries can you get in prison?
Prisoners ought to have access to health care but if you're a murderer and owe a huge debt to society why should society foot the bill for medical care unless it's essential to keep you breathing?
Why won't tax payers foot the bill for law abiding trans women and trans men to get this surgery?
Prisoners ought to have access to health care but if you're a murderer and owe a huge debt to society why should society foot the bill for medical care unless it's essential to keep you breathing?
Why won't tax payers foot the bill for law abiding trans women and trans men to get this surgery?
Straight Edge
Member
It's not fucking elective. it's not cosmetic surgery. it's been explained ad nauseum by numerous posters how serious being trapped in the wrong body is.
Both are.
chugen
Member
if someone asked me that for the person who killed one of my cousin i would say let it burst. it's a good thing that they don't ask those kind of questions.
Oh please do. Amaze us with your superior debating skills.
Because denying medical care is paramount to torture. In fact, it is torture.
The Supreme Court said:
Because America has a terrible health care system.
People in prison should get what every surgery they need because our prisons have to comply law.
If people want those same rights as prisoners do- ie healthcare, we as a society have to elect people that will get us healthcare. Prisoners are not denying basic human compassion- society is. Taking away one of the few thing our prison do right will not give citizen healthcare.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Because we all know women can't be violent criminals...
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
No it's not. You don't rush to the emergency room for GRS.
I'm not disputing that it's extremely important for mental health.
One is short term the other is long term. Both should be done as soon as possible to help the individual survive. Both are still life saving ops.
metalslimer
Member
Even if I were to go down this route, psychiatric treatment (not necessarily surgical is also paid for). Why do you not have a problem with paying for a lifetime of psych meds vs this?
And dear lord at the posts over and over and over and over about how law abiding people can't get the surgery. Blocking this wouldn't have given someone else that surgery. They are completely unrelated.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Being a criminal means you should be punished for your crimes, not that you don't have any rights at all. This is an old stone. Do not spend resources on convicted felons when so many people need help.
Incidentally it was the subject of one of my favorite episodes of House. A inmate sentenced to Death Row suffers from a mysterious illness and House is the only one who cares about curing him even though the hospital and his team think its a pointless waste of resources when he is already eventually been sentenced to death. It's a great episode that has a philosophical twist rather than a moral one.
Incidentally it was the subject of one of my favorite episodes of House. A inmate sentenced to Death Row suffers from a mysterious illness and House is the only one who cares about curing him even though the hospital and his team think its a pointless waste of resources when he is already eventually been sentenced to death. It's a great episode that has a philosophical twist rather than a moral one.
I'd be more accepting of this idea if everyone could get these procedures performed and covered by the taxpayer.
I don't particularly care if a murderer is trapped in the wrong body. His or her victim is trapped in no body at all.
I wonder how the departed's family feels about this
So you want her to commit suicide then? You do know how high the suicide rate trans people are right?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Pretty much. Like, certain inmates could probably improve their quality of life if they got liposuction or laser eye surgery, but prison shouldn't be providing those. Prison is meant to be (at least in part) a punishment.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Would you spend money on amputating a limb to prevent gangrene?
*checks OP again*
This person is a KILLER.
I don't give a shit if she commits suicide. I don't believe in the death penalty because I don't think killing is right, but this person erased someone from the earth and destroyed the lives of their family forever. Lock her up and throw away the key. I don't give a fuck.
I can't imagine how tough life would be for a trans prisoner. Two of the last human categories where it's still socially acceptable to openly question whether you deserve basic human rights at the same time.
I am curious about how "necessary" reassignment surgery goes - I know that a lot of trans people just transition with hormones and don't bother "going all the way." Is that the sort of thing that differs by preference, or is it purely a practical/economic concern for people?
Obviously, offering a half-measure would be kind of a shit deal, so the prison would need to put everything on the table, but I'm curious if some trans people - if offered reassignment surgery for "free" - would turn it down.
I am curious about how "necessary" reassignment surgery goes - I know that a lot of trans people just transition with hormones and don't bother "going all the way." Is that the sort of thing that differs by preference, or is it purely a practical/economic concern for people?
Obviously, offering a half-measure would be kind of a shit deal, so the prison would need to put everything on the table, but I'm curious if some trans people - if offered reassignment surgery for "free" - would turn it down.
Can't believe you use laser eye surgery and liposuction as examples to compare.
Don't believe in the death penalty yet don't care if she kills herself... ok
Coffee Dog
Banned
Here's where your reasoning is flawed: this isn't anything so simple, "to improve their quality of life".
A medical professional has deemed the surgery necessary for the prisoner to continue to function as a healthy person.
That is a fact, that is incontrovertibly how the prisoner was diagnosed. You can either accept it or claim you know better.
Correct. Two entirely different things and you've identified them correctly.
1. The state has decided to imprison someone. Therefore, the state, by extension the taxpayer, should give the person medical care.
additionally
2. The justice system disproportionately jails non-white people for longer periods for the same crimes with less evidence. Therefore, it's statistically likely you are withholding medical care from someone who is innocent.
additionally
3. The response to prisoners getting X or Y shouldn't be "don't let them have it", but a self-critique "why can't we supply that to the rest of the population?".
additionally
4. Healthcare shouldn't be viewed as a "reward" for being a "just" person, which is what you and other posters are trying to justify here.
Ideally, a justice and prison system would be run in rehabilitive sense, with the (correct) assumption that there is a chance the person you are imprisoning is actually innocent, so you should leave them better than they went in if they are exonerated later on. nobody is calling for convicted murders to take dogs for walks out in the local park unsupervised, they shouldn't be given openings to re-offend, but on the other hand you don't have to go all the way in the other direction with torture and neglect. But prison seems to be a place where transphobes and racists get away with constant petty revenge fantasies being doled out.
More_Badass
Member
What if it was robbery? Then the operation would be fine?
Based on your comment, severity of the crime should dictate what medical treatment a prisoner receives. What about insulin and asthma medicine? Are certain prisoners not allowed that because of their crimes?
The killer managed to live 57 years without a gender reassignment procedure. Her heart would continue beating without it.
They killed people, I don't care what happens to them.
Is that an elective procedure?
More_Badass
Member
That doesnt answer the question
Coffee Dog
Banned
"Her heart will continue beating" is below our minimum standard of acceptable care.
Even killers deserve to be treated humanly.
Still not caring if a person dies though isn't it? Which is disgusting.
Hypothetical question, the person killed someone near and dear to you. Would you want them sitting in prison getting free elective surgeries?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Why not? This person would continue to live if they don't get the surgery. They might be miserable but they'd live.
"Give me this or I'll kill myself" is not the same as a life-threatening pathology.
If someone killed my son or daughter and I later learned the state funded a sex change operation to prevent my child's murderer from experiencing undo mental anguish I'd be livid. What about the mental anguish of the family? No one seems to be looking at this from their point of view.
I think prisoners should be given medical care, yes, but I don't think allowing someone to continue having a man's body is cruel and unusual punishment.
Would I ever be open to it? Maybe. But it should be subject to individual review, and a killer surely shouldn't get priority
Humanely yes, and they are. Prisoners get treated better than our homeless people. They don't deserve free surgeries though.
metalslimer
Member
Glad you can trivialize what trans people go through.
They are totally different and you know that. Exercise/therapy/eating well/drugs can correct weight problems and glasses and contacts can correct eye sight. Nothing but surgery can correct a trans persons mental health.
It's always shocking to me how many people on GAF are just full on in favor of torture.
SRS is an "elective procedure" in the same way that surgery to treat Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is. While there are other non-surgical treatments that may be sufficient (just as some trans people may not need SRS), proper treatment varies from individual to individual and for some people (like the woman in the OP), surgery is the best option to treat a potentially debilitating condition. Things don't have to be directly life threatening to warrant medical attention.
SRS is an "elective procedure" in the same way that surgery to treat Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is. While there are other non-surgical treatments that may be sufficient (just as some trans people may not need SRS), proper treatment varies from individual to individual and for some people (like the woman in the OP), surgery is the best option to treat a potentially debilitating condition. Things don't have to be directly life threatening to warrant medical attention.
Feels like you want to throw antidepressants out of the window on this one too. Am I reading it wrong?
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