Can a proper gamer ignore Nintendo games?
- Thread starter Nintendork22
- Start date
Gianni Merryman
Member
outunderthestars said:
I see what you mean, but if you claimed yourself to be an English literature critic you just couldn't simply rule out even a basic knowledge classics such as Shakespeare, Dickens or Melville only because you think they don't appeal to you: if you want to grow your competence about literature, music, cinema, etc., you must dig into the classic masterpieces - even if you don't feel like to - in order to get some kind of a perspective and be able to figure out things.
Being more specific to the OP, if you pretend to be a videogames connoisseur, you cannot just deliberately skip Nintendo games, or any other games for that matter, just due to personal bias.
For example I am currently playing Sin and punishment successor of the skies on the Wii: in my opinion a jaw-dropping shoot 'em up game, a must-have for the followers of the genre, and when I happen to read someone saying that there is not any worthy games on the Nintendo Wii I tend to think they say so just for sheer ignorance, because this would imply that games such as Monster hunter 3, Metroid prime 3, Little king story, Mad world, Resident evil 4 or Mario galaxy 2 should be just rubbish, and I reckon they are not.
That said, I agree with anybody said there is not such a thing as a "proper gamer" or a "true gamer", these are just meaningless labels.
Chû Totoro
Member
I don't like the word gamer and it's actually worst every day. Anyway I think that someone who is really interested by all that can be done in the videogame industry will end up trying/renting/buying almost everything.
You're not obliged to like everything (so it includes Nintendo games) but trying or at least making your own constructive advice about the games you're hearing about is a good thing. And in the videogames landscape Nintendo is taking a very big place so every person who likes videogames should at least take their games into consideration.
I'm a big Nintendo fan btw and even if some game mechanics haven't evolved a lot since the past 10 years they are still the best you could find.
You're not obliged to like everything (so it includes Nintendo games) but trying or at least making your own constructive advice about the games you're hearing about is a good thing. And in the videogames landscape Nintendo is taking a very big place so every person who likes videogames should at least take their games into consideration.
I'm a big Nintendo fan btw and even if some game mechanics haven't evolved a lot since the past 10 years they are still the best you could find.
Fredrik said:
Uhh I use majora's mask as the only example of zelda trying something pretty different. The time element and mask abilities changed quite a bit, enough for me to think of it as different. The rest, not so much.
And I also don't agree with most of the games you listed. Yeah the couple that come out every year like cod and assassin's creed you can make a case against, but the rest are not great choices. Those other games have other aspects for them than just gameplay which helps ease the "staleness" feeling, something that zelda and mario do not have the benefit of.
cartman414
Member
Renmei said:
You played just two spinoff games.
Although Paper Mario is one of the greats.
_Alkaline_ said:
And I can disagree about other NES era games (including a few other awesome ones!) not having any dodginess or repetition.
Firstly: What is a 'proper gamer' other than another term for arbitrarily separating part of the gaming audience from the rest of it? It can join 'Alpha Gamer' in the bowels of hell.
Secondly: Nintendo is a very talented developer and is easily the most successful of all time. As such, I see no reason for anyone to ignore their output entirely - but if they have limited knowledge or experience with Nintendo's games due to various rational reasons, that's fine. It happens.
Thirdly: There are many talented developers I bet many of us could name that you've never played a game from either. Who cares? I'm not going to treat you like a second-class citizen because I have an unhealthily strong attachment to the Leather Goddesses of Phobos and you've never played it.
EDIT: Regarding the franchise fatigue current in this thread: If other companies had the sort of IPs Nintendo does, they would behave no different. They would release one after another with minor changes in order to keep the formula feeling at least reasonably fresh. Many sequels that have featured massive changes have led to the franchise's demise. Nintendo's not going to do that outside of spinoffs because it's very, very conservative.
Secondly: Nintendo is a very talented developer and is easily the most successful of all time. As such, I see no reason for anyone to ignore their output entirely - but if they have limited knowledge or experience with Nintendo's games due to various rational reasons, that's fine. It happens.
Thirdly: There are many talented developers I bet many of us could name that you've never played a game from either. Who cares? I'm not going to treat you like a second-class citizen because I have an unhealthily strong attachment to the Leather Goddesses of Phobos and you've never played it.
EDIT: Regarding the franchise fatigue current in this thread: If other companies had the sort of IPs Nintendo does, they would behave no different. They would release one after another with minor changes in order to keep the formula feeling at least reasonably fresh. Many sequels that have featured massive changes have led to the franchise's demise. Nintendo's not going to do that outside of spinoffs because it's very, very conservative.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
Derrick01 said:
can you be more concrete about this? what exactly do they have that eases the "staleness feeling"?
Smash and Paper Mario?Renmei said:
Well, one is a party fighting game and the other is a light hearted RPG (genious at that). But that's hardly a real all-encompassing sample of Nintendo's output.
I think there's a big difference between saying I don't like Mario/Zelda/Metroid or other big franchise names, or hell even saying I don't like Miyamoto/Aonuma/Koizumi games (this should be more appropriate), than saying, I just don't like Nintendo games. Because it's holds such a large number of different studios, that all work with different design philosophies.
I mean what similarities are there between Advance Wars and Kirby?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
*wake up in morning*
*Thread still going*
*Thread still going*
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
A gamer is someone who plays games.
That-is-all.
So... "proper-lol"?
That-is-all.
So... "proper-lol"?
There are obviously varying levels of involvement when it comes to video games or any other hobby out there. Whether you want to label those various levels needlessly is up to each individual. Regardless of whether you play every game that comes out or only play Plants v. Zombies, you're still a gamer and at least deserve the baseline respect that should be afforded to all people.
It happens in every industry but there's always a certain group of people that want to say they're "better" or more "appreciative" of a medium simply because they're more deeply involved. When in reality they're only interested in being the supposed elite of their particular industry thus giving them the fictional power to decide who is and isn't allowed to enjoy the various aspects of said industry. The endless drive of humans to appear superior to other humans doesn't stop at video games door, despite being something as ridiculous as "You haven't even played ICO? Ok casual lololololol."
It's seemingly more prevalent in video games because largely this industry is dominated by adolescent boys that are eager to prove themselves no longer boys. It's similar to when a 60 year old person insults you for not knowing Locke, or Dickens. It's just easier to recognize immaturity in a demographic deemed immature by default. It's everywhere.
TL
R - Objective reality lol
It happens in every industry but there's always a certain group of people that want to say they're "better" or more "appreciative" of a medium simply because they're more deeply involved. When in reality they're only interested in being the supposed elite of their particular industry thus giving them the fictional power to decide who is and isn't allowed to enjoy the various aspects of said industry. The endless drive of humans to appear superior to other humans doesn't stop at video games door, despite being something as ridiculous as "You haven't even played ICO? Ok casual lololololol."
It's seemingly more prevalent in video games because largely this industry is dominated by adolescent boys that are eager to prove themselves no longer boys. It's similar to when a 60 year old person insults you for not knowing Locke, or Dickens. It's just easier to recognize immaturity in a demographic deemed immature by default. It's everywhere.
TL
R - Objective reality lolbeelzebozo said:
It can be something like an actual story, multiplayer, co op. Stuff similar to that.
With mario and zelda games you know you're going to pretty much get the same stuff you've got before and you know there's not going to be a story past "save ___". I'm guessing that's why we see so many complaints of staleness against Nintendo franchises that we don't see with other stuff. There's nothing else to think about other than the gameplay.
The Stig
Banned
You cant completely ignore Nintendo and be a proper gamer. Much like to be a proper petrolhead you have to have owned an Alfa Romeo at some point.
It's just when you do get that alfa you are constantly questioning if it was worth it.
While I would hate to not play SMG brawl and one or two others, Nintendo are by far the runt of the litter for me these days.
It's just when you do get that alfa you are constantly questioning if it was worth it.
While I would hate to not play SMG brawl and one or two others, Nintendo are by far the runt of the litter for me these days.
This is it. If gaming's your hobby and you're just playing to have fun, and doing your best to find what's fun based on indicators like Publisher, Developer, Composer, which console you feel is the most attractive looking when hooked to your TV etc., that's cool.Gianni Merryman said:
If you consider yourself interested in the depth and breadth of the medium of videogames and you're ignoring everything under the banner of a particular company for reasons of real or perceived bias, loyalty, cool factor, whatever, then you're just boring.
My Wii has been in storage since SMG2 and S&P2 launched. Played a few hours of both and then moved never having taken the system out of its box since. I sadly missed out on Other M(ugh?) and DKCR last year, but only Skyward Sword has the power to bring the console back into my gaming life 18-ish months later.
I still have yet to buy a 3DS and who knows when and if I will. With the Xenoblade garbage, its been clear Nintendo has my gaming interests at a low priority, and really I don't exactly feel I am missing out on anything, even not having come close to seeing all of Galaxy 2.
I still have yet to buy a 3DS and who knows when and if I will. With the Xenoblade garbage, its been clear Nintendo has my gaming interests at a low priority, and really I don't exactly feel I am missing out on anything, even not having come close to seeing all of Galaxy 2.
Houston3000
Member
Completely ignore? No... I mean, I've played Wii a few times obviously - played through a descent chunk of Mario Galaxy and SMB:Wii when my friend's girlfriend would get them for Christmas and stuff. I've never owned one though, I'll probably never own one and I have a feeling I won't own a Wii U either.
In general if you've never played a Mario game, Zelda game, Metroid game, and the like then I probably wouldn't consider you a real gamer at this point. I think people who've mostly ignored the Wii though still can have plenty of gaming cred these days.
In general if you've never played a Mario game, Zelda game, Metroid game, and the like then I probably wouldn't consider you a real gamer at this point. I think people who've mostly ignored the Wii though still can have plenty of gaming cred these days.
Derrick01 said:
Multiplayer, I will definitely grant you. However, the fact that most multiplayer games nowadays don't have local multiplayer is bullshit. It's mind-numbingly stupid. The Wii has showcased how short-sighted this is to great success. As for story: You know, I'd have an easier time accepting 'story' as a worthwhile reason for rejecting Nintendo titles if (a) they didn't make Fire Emblem and (b) the vast majority of video game stories weren't trash.
Part of me considers online multiplayer as an easy way to derive value for a title without the developer having to change up much in the core game, but that's a matter of subjectivity that isn't fair to people who enjoy it. But yeah, the fact that games literally lose the majority of their value the moment they're no longer supported or because the next big online game has come out makes them far less palatable to me than games without that inherent issue. But again, this isn't being fair.
No, the reason is that Nintendo's games have been around for an abnormally long time and don't try to be anything but what they are. They don't suddenly adopt ideas or concepts that run contrary to the pure gameplay-based experience they represent - and when they have, it's largely resulted in, well, negativity.
Version 3.0
Member
I feel bad for any gamer who hasn't played or doesn't like Nintendo's many masterpieces, because they're the centerpiece of my great gaming experiences. But I'm not such a dick as to say that person isn't a "proper gamer".
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I...guess I can see that point? (Almost) All video game stories are so utterly shitty still that they pretty much never actually count towards the experience for me. Gameplay or bust in my world. I mean, I tried to read a summary of Assassins Creed once and my head started hurting after three minutes. Do people really keep buying the games to see what happens to future Desmond?Derrick01 said:
_Alkaline_
Member
The_Technomancer said:
Laughable. Heavy Rain is clearly the defining piece of software of any generation.
I have played the fist Mario Game on emulator and a bit of the first Mario Galaxy as well, and I don't think I get the appeal of platforming so it isn't just a Mario thing. But it is the same with Zelda, I tried playing Twilight Princess but.. not a bad game but not omfg great must play.SmokyDave said:
Like someone has posted previously in this thread, the gaming market is too saturated to have any "must play" games in order to be a "proper" gamer. I tried being one after moving out of my parent's house, finally being able to buy my own gaming consoles and discovering gaf and.. the legendary games of the consoles didn't match up to the hype.
In my book the must play games in order to be a "proper" gamer are Halflife 1 and 2, Counterstrike 1.6, Quake 3 Arena, Warcraft and Starcraft, Diablo, System Shock and Deus Ex. What percentage of GAF has tried even a fraction of those? Those are the Marios and Zeldas of my childhood.
Renmei said:
Then I would say you're mostly a PC gamer. And that's not a criticism. I'm one also. When I play PC games, I have certain expectations, but I was involved with console gaming early on and that helped me develop a palate for that kind of gameplay as well.
For what it's worth, you have damn fine taste.
Fess
Member
I totally agree with your MM comments, but I'm not the one who says that playing Mario and Zelda feels like playing the same game for 20 years. MM use the same engine as OoT though, and SMG2 uses the SMG1 engine, which at first glance might strengthen the feeling of having played it before.Derrick01 said:
I don't agree with the other comments though. I'm guessing that you're thinking of the story. Personally I don't feel like a different story make a different game, I need new gameplay mechanics to get the feeling of playing something new, which Nintendo is quite good at. But I read tons of book too besides playing games, and well, for the most part I just don't think the stories in games are good enough compared to books, so for me the story is just something to spice up the game a bit. If I want good stories I just read a book instead. And if I want games I usually choose games that surprise me gameplaywise rather than with the story.
I think anyone who enjoys gaming (regardless of their gaming label) would be amiss to skip out on Nintendo's classics. There are some really amazing experiences in there.
That said, I think anyone who enjoys gaming would be amiss to skip out on some of the awesome stuff on PS3, 360 and PC as well (not to mention the portable world).
While not everyone can afford to have every console, I think everyone should try and find a way to experience all the classics regardless who makes them.
That said, I think anyone who enjoys gaming would be amiss to skip out on some of the awesome stuff on PS3, 360 and PC as well (not to mention the portable world).
While not everyone can afford to have every console, I think everyone should try and find a way to experience all the classics regardless who makes them.
Haven't enjoyed a Nintendo franchise since the 64.
To me I find the only reason people really love each new iteration of their games is more due to nostalgia than anything else. They often only introduce one new mechanic and that is pretty much it. I would love to see Nintendo take a step in a different direction and try doing something risky with any of their franchises, especially Zelda...but after seeing the Wii U I have no hopes for this.
The Metroid series has probably been their most 'changed' franchise.
To me I find the only reason people really love each new iteration of their games is more due to nostalgia than anything else. They often only introduce one new mechanic and that is pretty much it. I would love to see Nintendo take a step in a different direction and try doing something risky with any of their franchises, especially Zelda...but after seeing the Wii U I have no hopes for this.
The Metroid series has probably been their most 'changed' franchise.
_Alkaline_
Member
Concept17 said:
^
Both a personal attack and objectively incorrect? Wow, have fun with that one fella.
cartman414
Member
Renmei said:
Uhhhh, with the exception of System Shock and maybe Deus EX, all of those are best-sellers.
Heck, Blizzard is the Nintendo of PC developers in a way.
And Diablo? Not to diss it, but there are many Nintendo games with more depth.
Concept17 said:
Says the person who doesn't care for jRPGs other than Final Fantasy 7.
Lance Bone Path
Member
Can a proper publisher ignore a market like North America? I think it's established by now that the answer is yes.
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
Concept17 said:
wtfisthisshit.gif
Mr. B Natural
Member
How to catch up to the last 6 years of compelling Nintendo products-
1. Play Mario Galaxy
2. Play Mario Galaxy 2
And you're done.
1. Play Mario Galaxy
2. Play Mario Galaxy 2
And you're done.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
No Prime or Galaxy?Concept17 said:
Nintendo did take a step in a different direction with the mass of new IPs this gen. Of course since they don't appeal to many on here people won't care but they certainly did take a lot of risky ideas and put them to the test.
ViolentP
Member
My interest in the company has been dwindling since the final stages of the GCN. Their current business path is of very little interest to me now so ignoring them hasn't been a problem. That's not to say that I would ignore something I would be interested in were they to release it.
TheThunder
Member
At the start of this generation, sony fanboys were the most hilarious bunch you could meet, but as the gen moved on the nintendo fanbots struck back and proved they deserved the god's given right of being the most silly and delusional of them all.
thanks for the "proper gamer" term, will make sure it gets lots of use in the future.
thanks for the "proper gamer" term, will make sure it gets lots of use in the future.
GeorgioCostanzaX
Member
You can't ignore the classics but Super Mario Sunshine and Windwaker are somewhat forgettable. EAD is basically the only studio one can't ignore.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
Does a proper gamer mean one who plays with his or her pinkies extended? That would be a fairly awkward way to hold the mote and chuk...