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[Shin-Ra]

Why would they do this? Why would they even rerelease an actual proper handheld?

Where is this narrative that handhelds are the next great hype coming from? Because of the steam deck? Or that MS is rumored to be trying its hand at it?

Some may genuinely want another PlayStation Portable but I think a lot of the support is misdirection, pushing PlayStation to keep diluting their focus on PS5.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I told you there would be a PS5 price increase... you said it was impossible.

I don't recall telling you a PS5 price increase would be impossible. When I conceded to you, it sure as hell wasn't about that.

What I recall saying was that the recent Price hike in Japan wasn't an indication that the PS5pro would cost more than $600. As I had it priced at $500-$600. And that's what I was wrong about.

I said the PS5 Pro would be 2TB... people said I was wrong.

not me.

I said PS5 Pro would be 700 dollars without the disc drive... again told I was crazy.

I said it would be $500-$600. Also without a disc drive. Where we disagreed on here was the price.

You seem to think Sony is going to launch a handheld with its own unique games. That's not how PlayStation is going to work moving forward. The entire ecosystem is a platform.

The PS Handheld is going to play the same games as the console at lower resolution and maybe lower framerate depending on the game. The key to this is going to be PSSR.

That would automatically make the handheld, the base platform. That would also put sony in direct competition with the likes of Nintendo, who I am sure would be using some form of reconstruction tech in their next hardware too.

I don't see sony doing that. There is no upside in that for them.

they want to expand their MAU. And a handheld will grow it more than pc ports currently with psn accounts attached to it.
I don't think they will mandate every game to support it but they themselves will port/remaster their whole ps4/ps5 library into it lmao. From spider-man to astro bot

I still feel their best stab at a handheld, would be to make a PS portal 2 whose hardware is focused on local and networked media/game streaming. That way, they can make a $200 handheld that allows you to stream PS5/6 games even if you do not own the console, and from which you can buy games as if you owned their console. And those purchases would also be downloadable if you do decide to get the console.

This way, they completely bypass any and all comparisons with Nintendo or any other dedicated handheld, while using their already existing streaming infrastructure in a way that actually can grow their userbase. Tying people that don't even own a local console to their ecosystem. While at the same time, offering people the best looking handheld games on the planet. Sans the lag tho.

 

[FStubbs]

They already have a multi spec ecosystem. A lot of games are still cross gen.

 

[ArtHands]

Why would they do this? Why would they even rerelease an actual proper handheld?

Where is this narrative that handhelds are the next great hype coming from? Because of the steam deck? Or that MS is rumored to be trying its hand at it?

It is because these guys are starting to understand Nintendo’s hybrid handheld strategy now that they have aged up since then. They are starting to find it dumb to tether themselves to TV for gaming, as it restrict their gaming habit a lot. They can’t continue playing while in a long train journey, or plane ride, visiting friends etc.

Also because of the emerging popularity of PC handhelds and the upcoming Switch 2. The fidelity is rapidly closing in to current gen consoles. These guys are thoroughly impressed after watching how Playstation games like God of War Ragnarok runs on the beautiful OLED display on Steam Deck OLED. They want a gamer-dad portable machine and they want a Playstation brand one, hence the desire for a Playstation portable machine. Even though Sony has failed miserably in the past

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

I think it would be a huge mistake to split a same platform between a weak SOC and a powerful SOC.

And we already have a proof of that : Xbox series X and S, all devs complained about the weak Xbox S and the hassle to make their game running on a weak hardware and ultimately giving up at the end to release their game at all on Xbox because of that.

If you release several hardware for a same platform to any devs, they will always focus on the most powerful one because it's making their work easier, I have not a single doubt about that.

Don't do that Sony.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I think it would be a huge mistake to split a same platform between a weak SOC and a powerful SOC.

It won't be a problem because the powerful SoC will be too expensive to be in a base console. You saw how much people complained about the PS5 Pro's price... it'll be more than that.

Besides, as I mentioned, pretty much every game is going to be crossgen anyway.

 

[Three]

There are rumors about home console+handheld from Sony. And concerns, that it can generally affect graphics and performance, if the same game must run on both devices.

But what if Sony let developers release some games on both SOCs, and some games only for a home console to utilize its full potential?

I think it would be a little confusing, but right decision overall.

Would it be any more confusing than PS4 and PS5 releases today? Some are PS5 only others are PS4 and PS5. It would be a good idea to give the devs a choice instead of making it mandatory like Series S.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't recall telling you a PS5 price increase would be impossible. When I conceded to you, it sure as hell wasn't about that.

What I recall saying was that the recent Price hike in Japan wasn't an indication that the PS5pro would cost more than $600. As I had it priced at $500-$600. And that's what I was wrong about.

This was relating to the PS5 Slim.

not me.

I said it would be $500-$600. Also without a disc drive. Where we disagreed on here was the price.

And I was right, which is great for me, but not really the point. The bigger point is WHY I was right.

Sony's roadmap is obvious.

That would automatically make the handheld, the base platform. That would also put sony in direct competition with the likes of Nintendo, who I am sure would be using some form of reconstruction tech in their next hardware too.

I don't see sony doing that. There is no upside in that for them.

The weakest platform isn't necessarily the base platform. It doesn't work like that. XSS is no more the base platform this generation than whatever the minimum recommended PC spec is. Games aren't designed around the 4090 nor are they designed around the Series S.

The primary goal when developing games is to get them running at 60 fps on XSX and PS5 but they're still built against PC. That's why you have DRS ranges.

Sony has never been afraid of competing with Nintendo. In fact we see the exact signs that they're willing to do so in the creation of games like Astro Bot and Lego Horizon Adventures.

Nintendo will have reconstructive tech on the next Switch, but how powerful will the device be and how expensive will it be? The more expensive the device, the more it favors Sony.

The upside is significantly higher MAU and higher brand recognition for IP that they're pushing via transmedia strategy for really the first time in their history.

 

[sachos]

Ehh i think like you said if they allow devs to skip the handheld it could get messy for first party, people will bitch at them for skipping it. Like you said a handheld would seriously restrict the more powerful console so i personally dont like the idea. I would prefer if they release a Pro console from the jumpstart.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Not a chance. By the end of this year I expect the most expensive PS5 on the market o be $399. You may have to buy a $100 disc drive for it, but technically, the cost of the PS5 would be $399 and that would be the only model available.

There is no evidence to suggest that is what sony is more interested in. And further more, people keep paying this inflation card when comparing console prices today vs some gens ago... but conveniently forget that these consoles today have way more revenue sreams than say, the PS2.

This is what you said when I said that the PS5 Slim would get a price increase rather than a price drop. And that Sony was focusing on improving their profit margins rather than selling more units. You said there was no evidence, and yet I was right, because there was a ton of evidence, you were simply ignoring the evidence I was providing.

Similarly, the roadmap and leaks for Sony make it clear what they are trying to do with a handheld. They have some challenges ahead of them though and some decisions to make, but they're definitely bringing handhelds back.

 

[Parazels]

Ehh i think like you said if they allow devs to skip the handheld it could get messy for first party, people will bitch at them for skipping it. Like you said a handheld would seriously restrict the more powerful console so i personally dont like the idea. I would prefer if they release a Pro console from the jumpstart.

The PRO console from the jumpstart will be outdated and expensive as hell.
The current strategy (a PRO console is 4 years later than the base console) is perfect.

 

[Jesb]

All they should be doing is releasing a handheld that compliments the PS6. Maybe a handheld that streams your PS6 games with also options like GFN. They aren’t gonna do no dedicated handheld with its own exclusive software.

 

[Loomy]

That would be PS Vita all over again. Sony and everyone else has seen what a terrible idea something like the Series S is in the long run. So that's not going to happen.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

All they should be doing is releasing a handheld that compliments the PS6. Maybe a handheld that streams your PS6 games with also options like GFN. They aren’t gonna do no dedicated handheld with its own exclusive software.

Can you stream on a plane, subway, or a bus?

That would be PS Vita all over again. Sony and everyone else has seen what a terrible idea something like the Series S is in the long run. So that's not going to happen.

Vita required its own games.
Series S had a support mandate and crippled memory.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

This is what you said when I said that the PS5 Slim would get a price increase rather than a price drop. And that Sony was focusing on improving their profit margins rather than selling more units. You said there was no evidence, and yet I was right, because there was a ton of evidence, you were simply ignoring the evidence I was providing.

Not quite. At that time, the PS5 digital and disc skus already started at $450 and $500 respectively. I said that when the pro comes, it would get a price drop and the pro would likely come in at $500/$600.

The PS5, outside japan, has not go t a price increase. Hence why I say what I conceded to was you saying the Pro would cost above $599. Its like you are merging two entirely different conversations.

Similarly, the roadmap and leaks for Sony make it clear what they are trying to do with a handheld. They have some challenges ahead of them though and some decisions to make, but they're definitely bringing handhelds back.

I am not against handhelds, and I think I have repeatedly said what I believe a Sony handheld should look like. What I am against, is sony making a handheld in the traditional sense, which something I think they are not good at. Sony has a tendency not to put everything behind anything, they manage to get away with it because they usually have just one thing to be good at, and this permeates all of Sony, not just their PlayStation. If they made a handheld, they would not back it as much as they should... and it would suffer for that.

So again, I am not saying sony should not make a handheld, but rather, that if they do, it should be something as cheap and off-kilter as the Playstation Portal. But with a feature set that allows it be a standalone streaming dependent $200 handheld for local or non-local content. I belive this would be them not just playing to their strengths, but it would also avoid all the issues I forsee with them making a dedicated traditional handheld.

The weakest platform isn't necessarily the base platform. It doesn't work like that. XSS is no more the base platform this generation than whatever the minimum recommended PC spec is. Games aren't designed around the 4090 nor are they designed around the Series S.

The Only reason the XSS is notthe base platform, is because its not as popular. Whatever console is the highest selling and makes the most money, is and has always been the base platform. That is what every dev targets. and then they just adjust upwards or downwards accordingly.

Sony has never been afraid of competing with Nintendo. In fact we see the exact signs that they're willing to do so in the creation of games like Astro Bot and Lego Horizon Adventures.

Don't mistake having a full and diverse library to be the same thing as competing with Nintendo. Playstation need games like those too.

Competing with Nintendo is not just a library thing, it's a form factor thing.

Nintendo will have reconstructive tech on the next Switch, but how powerful will the device be and how expensive will it be? The more expensive the device, the more it favors Sony.

This is not true, and you saying this is akin to talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't be right about the Sony price hike, for the reasons you are, and then be right about this too. The contradict each other.

The next switch, likely comes in at $399. Which would be the most expensive console Nintendo has ever released. That would mean nothing compared to a PS6 that likely starts at $599/$699. The cost of everything is getting higher.

So Sony competing with a Switch 2, would mean they are also making making a $399 handheld... and anyone that puts a handheld on the market for the same price of the switch 2, is losing that fight.

The upside is significantly higher MAU and higher brand recognition for IP that they're pushing via transmedia strategy for really the first time in their history.

This is not a problem Playstation has to be honest. And there are better ways to do this. As I said, I am not against handhelds, just look at all the stuff I was saying about the PS portal... I was amongst the few who thought it was a great idea and would do well.

Can you stream on a plane, subway, or a bus?

Actually? Yes,, yes, and yes.

In case you don't know, most airlines offer in-flight wifi now. As do trains, as far as buses and metro/subway trains, well in those cases the handheld would support sim cards, or you can use ur phones hotspot.

It doesn't have to be a perfect solution, it just needs to be no more than $200. They would still have their PS5/PS6, and millions of people that are perfectly fine buying a $200 handheld that gives them "access" to a $700 consoles library. But most importantly, the handheld has to allow access to these games, even if you do not own any PS console.

 

[chokotoureiki]

Too many lessons that should be heeded:

Nintendo dropped the idea of a separate handheld and main console. If they found it difficult, then good luck Sony.
We see the headache the series s is causing for developers.
Sony has adhd and finds it difficult to support anything but the main console.

Sony should just stay in its lane, you would think that they have the resources, but even with that it seems they soon find themselves spread too thin.

Nintendo had its ass handed to them by the smartphone market, esp with 3DS sales and the games tanking. A new Nintendo handheld would've been destroyed by iPhone.

 

[Megatron]

We have two possibilities:

1- It's gonna be abandoned like the PSVR2;
2- It's gonna be abandoned like the PSVita.

Which one is the better outcome?

Hold on now, it could also be abandoned Like the PSVR1

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I would be really surprised if they didn’t just decide to allow PlayStation Portal to stream from PS6. They already tried the handheld approach with Vita.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Nintendo had its ass handed to them by the smartphone market, esp with 3DS sales and the games tanking. A new Nintendo handheld would've been destroyed by iPhone.

The 3DS was a huge success after it's rough start.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Not quite. At that time, the PS5 digital and disc skus already started at $450 and $500 respectively. I said that when the pro comes, it would get a price drop and the pro would likely come in at $500/$600.

The PS5, outside japan, has not go t a price increase. Hence why I say what I conceded to was you saying the Pro would cost above $599. Its like you are merging two entirely different conversations.

That's absolutely not true. The PS5 digital was 400 dollars at the time. It did not get a price increase until the PS5 Digital Slim came out.

I'm not merging two conversations. I'm saying that twice you've told me I was dead wrong, and I was proven right.

I am not against handhelds, and I think I have repeatedly said what I believe a Sony handheld should look like. What I am against, is sony making a handheld in the traditional sense, which something I think they are not good at. Sony has a tendency not to put everything behind anything, they manage to get away with it because they usually have just one thing to be good at, and this permeates all of Sony, not just their PlayStation. If they made a handheld, they would not back it as much as they should... and it would suffer for that.

Both the PSP and Vita were great hardware. Again the PSP sold 80 million units. No, the problem Sony has always had was that they couldn't muster enough software support for the devices, which again is no longer a problem, since it will play the exact same games as the consoles. There is no need to "back it."

So again, I am not saying sony should not make a handheld, but rather, that if they do, it should be something as cheap and off-kilter as the Playstation Portal. But with a feature set that allows it be a standalone streaming dependent $200 handheld for local or non-local content. I belive this would be them not just playing to their strengths, but it would also avoid all the issues I forsee with them making a dedicated traditional handheld.

The issues you foresee is you living in the past and ignoring the present.

The Only reason the XSS is notthe base platform, is because its not as popular. Whatever console is the highest selling and makes the most money, is and has always been the base platform. That is what every dev targets. and then they just adjust upwards or downwards accordingly.

Don't mistake having a full and diverse library to be the same thing as competing with Nintendo. Playstation need games like those too.

Competing with Nintendo is not just a library thing, it's a form factor thing.

The PS5 handheld is not going to sell more than the PS5 console...

Again the PSP sold 80 million units.

This is not true, and you saying this is akin to talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't be right about the Sony price hike, for the reasons you are, and then be right about this too. The contradict each other.

Where exactly is the contradiction... lol, you can't just tell someone they've contradicted themselves without saying how.

The next switch, likely comes in at $399. Which would be the most expensive console Nintendo has ever released. That would mean nothing compared to a PS6 that likely starts at $599/$699. The cost of everything is getting higher.

The question isn't how much the Switch 2 costs compared to the PS6. The PS6 isn't going to launch for another 4 years. The question is how expensive is the switch 2 and how expensive is the PS5 handheld.

The DS launched for 150 and the PSP launched for 250 and still sold 80 million units.

Sony only needs to be in the ballpark of the Switch 2 in price and then have the PS5's game library.

So Sony competing with a Switch 2, would mean they are also making making a $399 handheld... and anyone that puts a handheld on the market for the same price of the switch 2, is losing that fight.

See above. They don't need to deliver at 400. I think if Switch 2 comes out for 400, that they can be as high as 500 and sell units.

The question isn't whether you can outsell the Switch 2, but rather how much market share can you take.

This is not a problem Playstation has to be honest. And there are better ways to do this. As I said, I am not against handhelds, just look at all the stuff I was saying about the PS portal... I was amongst the few who thought it was a great idea and would do well.


Actually? Yes,, yes, and yes.

In case you don't know, most airlines offer in-flight wifi now. As do trains, as far as buses and metro/subway trains, well in those cases the handheld would support sim cards, or you can use ur phones hotspot.

LOL please use inflight wifi to stream a PS Portal and tell us how that works out... be serious. Same with using a phone hotspot.

It doesn't have to be a perfect solution, it just needs to be no more than $200. They would still have their PS5/PS6, and millions of people that are perfectly fine buying a $200 handheld that gives them "access" to a $700 consoles library. But most importantly, the handheld has to allow access to these games, even if you do not own any PS console.

You're on the wrong side of history on this... again...

 

[yurinka]

All they should be doing is releasing a handheld that compliments the PS6. Maybe a handheld that streams your PS6 games with also options like GFN. They aren’t gonna do no dedicated handheld with its own exclusive software.

I think what they'll do is to release a just a normal PS6 home console, and then separatedly their own PC handheld.

Since it would run PC games it wouldn't need dedicated games. Being a PC could also use remote Play, PS+ cloud gaming and so on. Even pretty likely the other cloud gaming platforms from the other companies too.

 

[SScorpio]

I think what they'll do is to release a just a normal PS6 home console, and then separatedly their own PC handheld.

Since it would run PC games it wouldn't need dedicated games. Being a PC could also use remote Play, PS+ cloud gaming and so on. Even pretty likely the other cloud gaming platforms from the other companies too.

That makes no sense. Sony wouldn't release something that plays generic PC games. They want you locked into their eco system so you spend money there. They don't want you buying their hardware and then Valve reaping the rewards as you buy all your games off Steam.

Hardware wise it would be like the PC handheld you are envisioning. But it will run its own OS and directly play PlayStation games. Otherwise it's no different from all the other PC handhelds, and it's not something Sony would be interested in doing.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That makes no sense. Sony wouldn't release something that plays generic PC games. They want you locked into their eco system so you spend money there. They don't want you buying their hardware and then Valve reaping the rewards as you buy all your games off Steam.

Hardware wise it would be like the PC handheld you are envisioning. But it will run its own OS and directly play PlayStation games. Otherwise it's no different from all the other PC handhelds, and it's not something Sony would be interested in doing.

There have been a few people pushing this concept of a Sony PC handheld and it just makes no sense. Even if Sony built their own PC launcher, it wouldn't make sense.

 

[yurinka]

That makes no sense. Sony wouldn't release something that plays generic PC games. They want you locked into their eco system so you spend money there. They don't want you buying their hardware and then Valve reaping the rewards as you buy all your games off Steam.

Hardware wise it would be like the PC handheld you are envisioning. But it will run its own OS and directly play PlayStation games. Otherwise it's no different from all the other PC handhelds, and it's not something Sony would be interested in doing.

What I said makes total sense because it would avoid the issue of PSVR1, PSVR2 or PS Vita of nobody wanting to spend a lot of money on dedicated games or ports for a device with low sales, plus also Sony not having enough teams to support all devices.

On top of that, Sony is working on their own PC PSN store and if this portable uses it, it would help grow its userbase and catalog fast. Being a PC handheld doesn't mean it has the other stores installed etc.

On top of that, it would help Sony avoid potential future issues with market regulators if in the future they try to buy someone big.

 

[Sorcerer]

Hold on now, it could also be abandoned Like the PSVR1

How about abandoned like the PSTV? LOL!!!

 

[Parazels]

I think what they'll do is to release a just a normal PS6 home console, and then separatedly their own PC handheld.

Since it would run PC games it wouldn't need dedicated games. Being a PC could also use remote Play, PS+ cloud gaming and so on. Even pretty likely the other cloud gaming platforms from the other companies too.

They will make PS6 portable, that runs PS4 or even PS5 games by backward compatibility.
And a majority of PS6 games, of course.

 

[Astray]

Nintendo dropped the idea of a separate handheld and main console. If they found it difficult, then good luck Sony.

They actually didn't? They only really merged their production pipelines.

Regular and OLED Switch are a console/handheld hybrid, while the Switch Lite is a handheld-only device. They all have access to the same games despite the physical differences between them.

 

[Sorcerer]

They actually didn't? They only really merged their production pipelines.

Regular and OLED Switch are a console/handheld hybrid, while the Switch Lite is a handheld-only device. They all have access to the same games despite the physical differences between them.

I guess that is one way to look at it. I tend to forget the lite even exists nowadays for some reason.

 

[Astray]

I guess that is one way to look at it.

What was hard on Sony to do was keep up two almost entirely separate ecosystems, essentially battling Nintendo in addition to Xbox (Nintendo had the very successful 3DS, a fact that a lot of people forget).

If they merge the pipelines and make one big platform that encompasses console and handheld, then a lot of that friction would theoretically disappear. The devil is obviously in the details though, seeing how it was specific details that made the Series S into what it rn.

 

[SScorpio]

What I said makes total sense because it would avoid the issue of PSVR1, PSVR2 or PS Vita of nobody wanting to spend a lot of money on dedicated games or ports for a device with low sales, plus also Sony not having enough teams to support all devices.

On top of that, Sony is working on their own PC PSN store and if this portable uses it, it would help grow its userbase and catalog fast. Being a PC handheld doesn't mean it has the other stores installed etc.

On top of that, it would help Sony avoid potential future issues with market regulators if in the future they try to buy someone big.

If the handheld was released along side the PS6 which is supposedly releasing in 2028, you're looking at four years away. Handheld gaming PCs will surpass the PS5's power by then, and likely beat the Pro as well.

There's no reason Sony couldn't have dev kits that would target both the PS6 and the handheld. The handheld would have the came CPU and GPU architecture as the console, it just wouldn't be as powerful. The Vita you and others bring up as a reason this won't work was completely different from the PS3 and PS4.

The reason the Vita failed was Sony pulled all their first party studio and pushed them on to the PS4 to make it a success as supporting two different platforms wasn't possible. A console and handheld would have the same input methods (look at the PS Portal), but different performance levels. Modern game workflows already handle this. It's how PC games run on systems of all performance levels. Yes, it's targeting more than one hardware spec. But that's already happening with the pro versus base consoles. Or the Series S and X.

A generic Sony handheld PC ignores how Sony makes money in the gaming space. If you made a game that runs on PlayStation every single copy sold that runs on the PlayStation has a money going to Sony whether it physical or digital. If the copy is sold on the PSN store, Sony gets an even bigger cut. A PC PSN store that just sells Sony games wouldn't make Sony money off 3rd Party games. Someone could argue the handheld would be limited to just the PC PSN store, but then why would anyone buy it? You could buy another other PC handheld and access the PC PSN store, Steam, Ubistore, Epic, etc.

The handheld turning on, displaying the regular PlayStation OS and giving the exact same experience and access to the regular PSN store is the only thing that makes sense for Sony. It could run PS4, PS5, as well as PS6 games.

 

[yurinka]

They will make PS6 portable, that runs PS4 or even PS5 games by backward compatibility.
And a majority of PS6 games, of course.

This is impossible. To run console BC hardware must be in a very specific way to don't have frequent issues.

It also would be a bad idea to have a Series S scenario where devs would be forced to support both, or also would be a bad idea two have two PS6 skus and to allow devs skip one of them.

My PC handheld idea is the same as the PS5: a PC running Sony's own Linux. But in this case, also including the Proton emulation available in Steamdeck (Sony can use it, it's open source).

Most of their PS4, PS5 and PS6 games will be con PC. It's more realistic to have a handheld PC that already will run them.

People is used to see games that are only in console or only on PC, so with a handheld PC people would understand better that some titles aren't there. It would be more in line with their own expectatives.

 

[SScorpio]

This is impossible. To run console BC hardware must be in a very specific way to don't have frequent issues.

It also would be a bad idea to have a Series S scenario where devs would be forced to support both, or also would be a bad idea two have two PS6 skus and to allow devs skip one of them.

My PC handheld idea is the same as the PS5: a PC running Sony's own Linux. But in this case, also including the Proton emulation available in Steamdeck (Sony can use it, it's open source).

Most of their PS4, PS5 and PS6 games will be con PC. It's more realistic to have a handheld PC that already will run them.

People is used to see games that are only in console or only on PC, so with a handheld PC people would understand better that some titles aren't there. It would be more in line with their own expectatives.

The PS4 was AMD Jaguar CPU and 2nd gen GCN GPU. The PS4 Pro used a Jaguar CPU and 4th Gen GCN CPU. The PS5 has a Zen 2 CPU, and RDNA 2 GPU. The PS5 Pro will have a Zen 2 CPU, and a hybrid RNDA 3/4 GPU.

Yet the PS5 and PS5 Pro can run PS4 games just fine. And the PS6 will likely have a Zen 5 or 6 CPU, and who knows what GPU and will very likely run PS4 and PS5 games.

The handheld being mentioned would have the same CPU and GPU architecture as the PS6, but clocked lower. So why would it run into BC issues that the PS6 doesn't have? Why would games targeting the PS6, not be able to directly run on the handheld targeting a lower resolution and graphical fidelity settings?

 

[asdasdasdbb]

The PS4 was AMD Jaguar CPU and 2nd gen GCN GPU. The PS4 Pro used a Jaguar CPU and 4th Gen GCN CPU. The PS5 has a Zen 2 CPU, and RDNA 2 GPU. The PS5 Pro will have a Zen 2 CPU, and a hybrid RNDA 3/4 GPU.

Yet the PS5 and PS5 Pro can run PS4 games just fine. And the PS6 will likely have a Zen 5 or 6 CPU, and who knows what GPU and will very likely run PS4 and PS5 games.

The Zen 2 in the PS5/Pro has a special Jaguar BC mode, btw. Entirely possible that there will be more PS4 games that don't work on PS6 compared to PS5.

 

[lakitu1982]

I want them to copy the Switch with a handheld and then being able to dock, graphics and power is already good enough for me nowadays

 

[theHFIC]

Apple has been doing multiple SOC delivery from a single codebase that scales for years so maybe they can take some notes from their approach.

 

[SScorpio]

The Zen 2 in the PS5/Pro has a special Jaguar BC mode, btw. Entirely possible that there will be more PS4 games that don't work on PS6 compared to PS5.

My understanding is that limits clock speeds and the like. And while there could be games with issues on the PS6, how does that make a console and handheld BC different?

Apple has been doing multiple SOC delivery from a single codebase that scales for years so maybe they can take some notes from their approach.

Apple is a little different as they have emulation/translation layers to make old code compiled to one architecture work on another.

We're talking about x86-64 code that interfaces through APIs without direct system access. Much like the new PS4 "emulator" that's gone from booting basic 2D games to Bloodborne almost looking playable in only a few weeks. Sony would just write their own translation layers to allow the new hardware to handle the old APIs.

 

[Jigsaah]

I feel like PS6 should come first, then make a handheld later. What's odd is I think Xbox should do the opposite. Handheld first...then console.

 

[delfrickintree]

If the handheld was released along side the PS6 which is supposedly releasing in 2028, you're looking at four years away. Handheld gaming PCs will surpass the PS5's power by then, and likely beat the Pro as well.

There's no reason Sony couldn't have dev kits that would target both the PS6 and the handheld. The handheld would have the came CPU and GPU architecture as the console, it just wouldn't be as powerful. The Vita you and others bring up as a reason this won't work was completely different from the PS3 and PS4.

The reason the Vita failed was Sony pulled all their first party studio and pushed them on to the PS4 to make it a success as supporting two different platforms wasn't possible. A console and handheld would have the same input methods (look at the PS Portal), but different performance levels. Modern game workflows already handle this. It's how PC games run on systems of all performance levels. Yes, it's targeting more than one hardware spec. But that's already happening with the pro versus base consoles. Or the Series S and X.

A generic Sony handheld PC ignores how Sony makes money in the gaming space. If you made a game that runs on PlayStation every single copy sold that runs on the PlayStation has a money going to Sony whether it physical or digital. If the copy is sold on the PSN store, Sony gets an even bigger cut. A PC PSN store that just sells Sony games wouldn't make Sony money off 3rd Party games. Someone could argue the handheld would be limited to just the PC PSN store, but then why would anyone buy it? You could buy another other PC handheld and access the PC PSN store, Steam, Ubistore, Epic, etc.

The handheld turning on, displaying the regular PlayStation OS and giving the exact same experience and access to the regular PSN store is the only thing that makes sense for Sony. It could run PS4, PS5, as well as PS6 games.

Thank you. I don't get how some people are being so obtuse about the future not being the same as the past

 

[justiceiro]

You are proposing the PS3 + psvita model

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Most likely the two SOCs refer to a budget and premium version of the PS6.

If its an handheld, they will need a separate software production line for that. Which might be the case, but most likely its something similar to Series S and X.

That'd be worst. They'd have two home consoles with different performance profiles, and in a way the two cannibalizing each other with the risk of devs forced to constrain towards the lower SKU if it gets majority of the market share.

Logically speaking, the two SOCs thing makes most sense as a portable & home console, but the key is in having the portable effortlessly scale down games to run optimally on it with little to no dev work required, outside of maybe some metadata flags. That's where technologies like PSSR will be very valuable, but they'll need more than that, and it'll have to be shared tech between the handheld and home console.

If the handheld was released along side the PS6 which is supposedly releasing in 2028, you're looking at four years away. Handheld gaming PCs will surpass the PS5's power by then, and likely beat the Pro as well.

There's no reason Sony couldn't have dev kits that would target both the PS6 and the handheld. The handheld would have the came CPU and GPU architecture as the console, it just wouldn't be as powerful. The Vita you and others bring up as a reason this won't work was completely different from the PS3 and PS4.

The reason the Vita failed was Sony pulled all their first party studio and pushed them on to the PS4 to make it a success as supporting two different platforms wasn't possible. A console and handheld would have the same input methods (look at the PS Portal), but different performance levels. Modern game workflows already handle this. It's how PC games run on systems of all performance levels. Yes, it's targeting more than one hardware spec. But that's already happening with the pro versus base consoles. Or the Series S and X.

A generic Sony handheld PC ignores how Sony makes money in the gaming space. If you made a game that runs on PlayStation every single copy sold that runs on the PlayStation has a money going to Sony whether it physical or digital. If the copy is sold on the PSN store, Sony gets an even bigger cut. A PC PSN store that just sells Sony games wouldn't make Sony money off 3rd Party games. Someone could argue the handheld would be limited to just the PC PSN store, but then why would anyone buy it? You could buy another other PC handheld and access the PC PSN store, Steam, Ubistore, Epic, etc.

The handheld turning on, displaying the regular PlayStation OS and giving the exact same experience and access to the regular PSN store is the only thing that makes sense for Sony. It could run PS4, PS5, as well as PS6 games.

Well said, especially on the PC aspect not making business sense for SIE. Some people here and elsewhere are incredibly insistent on a PS PC handheld, or other things like a PS PC launcher/storefront. Why would Sony make a PlayStation device that by its nature would have to run Windows? Why make a PC launcher that both empowers Windows even further as the gateway for PC gaming, and would also chip away at the appeal of their own console hardware (or through its existence, actually cause increased support for competing storefronts like Steam which are already chipping away at the PlayStation/Xbox home console market as-is)?

That idea just doesn't make a lot of sense IMO. As for a future PS handheld/portable; it should definitely be able to offer PS4 Pro level performance (in terms of TF) undocked (I'm assuming they would do a hybrid portable) and PS5 level performance (again TF-wise, texture/pixel fillrate etc.) when docked. The key should be in it having advanced AI-powered technologies (PSSR, auto/smart LOD construction based on framebuffer feedback/sampling, ways to smartly do frame generation, AI filtering etc.) built in at system-level and fully integrated at API level, and that tech being shared between the handheld and home console (the PS6 itself).

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

So why even make one if it's going to be the abandoned stepchild like the PSVR2?

When did Sony abandon the PSVR 2?

 

[Parazels]

You are proposing the PS3 + psvita model

Did PS3 and PS Vita have the same architecture?

 

[chokotoureiki]

The 3DS was a huge success after it's rough start.

Why did it get discontinued then? It sold worse than its predecessor.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Why did it get discontinued then?

The Switch replaced it.

 

[chokotoureiki]

The Switch replaced it.

No it didn't, it replaced the Wii U. 3DS has dual screens, Switch only has one. Nintendo used to have 2 pillars, now it only has one.

 

[RoadHazard]

When did Sony abandon the PSVR 2?

I mean...

 

[theHFIC]

My understanding is that limits clock speeds and the like. And while there could be games with issues on the PS6, how does that make a console and handheld BC different?


Apple is a little different as they have emulation/translation layers to make old code compiled to one architecture work on another.

We're talking about x86-64 code that interfaces through APIs without direct system access. Much like the new PS4 "emulator" that's gone from booting basic 2D games to Bloodborne almost looking playable in only a few weeks. Sony would just write their own translation layers to allow the new hardware to handle the old APIs.

That is the Rosetta translation layer for Intel to ARM support. I mean more their recent initiative with gaming has Death Stranding, Resident Evils, launching on iOS and macOS at the same time and they are using the same native Apple code structure. Of course they are also adding UI and control elements for the different platforms, but when done properly with Apple you have a single codebase making multiple executables for Mac, iPhone, iPad, and sometimes even Apple TV too.

If Sony is sticking with x64 for next generation systems, nothing is stoping them from early on implementing some kind of scaling where if a developer chose to publish to a hypothetical PS6 and hypothetical Vita: Part 2 they can scale from the start.

 

[Felessan]

If the handheld was released along side the PS6 which is supposedly releasing in 2028, you're looking at four years away. Handheld gaming PCs will surpass the PS5's power by then, and likely beat the Pro as well.

Nope. It would be good if we get PS4 Pro performance in 10-15w package in 4 years.

 

[SScorpio]

That is the Rosetta translation layer for Intel to ARM support. I mean more their recent initiative with gaming has Death Stranding, Resident Evils, launching on iOS and macOS at the same time and they are using the same native Apple code structure. Of course they are also adding UI and control elements for the different platforms, but when done properly with Apple you have a single codebase making multiple executables for Mac, iPhone, iPad, and sometimes even Apple TV too.

If Sony is sticking with x64 for next generation systems, nothing is stoping them from early on implementing some kind of scaling where if a developer chose to publish to a hypothetical PS6 and hypothetical Vita: Part 2 they can scale from the start.

Ah, I get what you meant. Microsoft has had similar as well.

It's already happening a lot. Unreal Engine, and Unity let you code the game and can do the majority of the heavy lifting to run on a PC, console, tablet, phone, etc. But it can still be good to use some native code for certain pieces to maintain performance. But Sony could absolutely do the same, as games target APIs. They can also easily require any PS6 game also support the handheld devices to get certification.

Well said, especially on the PC aspect not making business sense for SIE. Some people here and elsewhere are incredibly insistent on a PS PC handheld, or other things like a PS PC launcher/storefront. Why would Sony make a PlayStation device that by its nature would have to run Windows? Why make a PC launcher that both empowers Windows even further as the gateway for PC gaming, and would also chip away at the appeal of their own console hardware (or through its existence, actually cause increased support for competing storefronts like Steam which are already chipping away at the PlayStation/Xbox home console market as-is)?

That idea just doesn't make a lot of sense IMO. As for a future PS handheld/portable; it should definitely be able to offer PS4 Pro level performance (in terms of TF) undocked (I'm assuming they would do a hybrid portable) and PS5 level performance (again TF-wise, texture/pixel fillrate etc.) when docked. The key should be in it having advanced AI-powered technologies (PSSR, auto/smart LOD construction based on framebuffer feedback/sampling, ways to smartly do frame generation, AI filtering etc.) built in at system-level and fully integrated at API level, and that tech being shared between the handheld and home console (the PS6 itself).

I'm not sure I believe that Sony would have the handheld be dockable. You can get away with a lot more on a small screen be it just 720p or 1080p. But people are fine with the PS5 outputting that already and just scaling it up.

Nope. It would be good if we get PS4 Pro performance in 10-15w package in 4 years.

The PS4 Pro is supposedly 4.2 TFlops. The AMD Z1 Extreme is 8.6 TFlops at 30W. The ROG Ally X (Z1 Extreme) had Alan Wake 2 running for two hours, and other stuff hitting over three hours. We've already surpassed that. The Switch was around three hours in BotW at launch.

 

[Trilobit]

Let Sony focus on powerful home consoles and Nintendo on their handhelds. Historically that has worked best.