Captain N. Tenneal
Member
Sad that Wall's approval rating is still so high after all of the stuff he's done to the province.
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Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland
- Thread starter DreamMachine
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Similarly, I love those "Canada's economic action plan is working!" commercials. If it was working, why do you need these fucking commercials?
It promotes the current government, makes it look like their policies are working.
It does look a bit foolish when the job loss numbers for a given month (say last month, March) are massively negative.
Ether_Snake
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NDP officially removes the notion of "socialism" from its constitution.
As expected.
Might also be, down the line, a first step to merge the NDP and LPC.
As expected.
Might also be, down the line, a first step to merge the NDP and LPC.
equippedwithtowel
Member
NDP officially removes the notion of "socialism" from its constitution.
As expected.
Might also be, down the line, a first step to merge the NDP and LPC.
If we go down to two viable parties, it's the beginning of the end.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
If we go down to two viable parties, it's the beginning of the end.
Nah I don't think so, it would last for a short time and third parties would start to gain momentum again. As long as Canadians don't become dumb, there will be a desire to form and vote for parties that aren't in the center.
For example, a merge of the NDP and LPC would lead many back to the Bloc, and probably some to the Green party.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
NDP officially removes the notion of "socialism" from its constitution.
As expected.
Might also be, down the line, a first step to merge the NDP and LPC.
It's a word with heavy baggage. I don't think it symbolizes any move to the right or centre. The NDP has been trying to emulate the Nordic, social-democratic model for quite some time now. This is not the CCF days anymore where accountable "socialism" was still an ideal and not a reality, there are actual social-democratic countries which are real and functioning. It's a much easier idea to sell.
equippedwithtowel
Member
Nah I don't think so, it would last for a short time and third parties would start to gain momentum again. As long as Canadians don't become dumb, there will be a desire to form and vote for parties that aren't in the center.
For example, a merge of the NDP and LPC would lead many back to the Bloc, and probably some to the Green party.
And that can only end well.
gutter_trash
Banned
the LPC will never merge with an NDP that recruited souvernists in its ranks (Turmel, Boulerice, Patry, the list goes on)
gutter_trash
Banned
Jean Chretien just delivered a Knock-Out to the NDP, the Bloc, the PQ, Quebec Solidaire and Option Nationale (LOL) in French
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Jean Chretien just delivered a Knock-Out to the NDP, the Bloc, the PQ, Quebec Solidaire and Option Nationale (LOL) in French
I can't seem to find anything (in English). What did he say?
Justin Trudeau officially crowned leader of the Liberal Party. Landslide victory with 80.1%.
Is it safe for them to talk about policies now or do we have to wait until he's in Parliament and until the next election? The NDP convention was actually constructive and many policies were discussed and I now know where the NDP stands, it restored a bit of faith for me. All I got from the LPC convention is that they will win the next election... somehow, and people want to vote for them... for some reason. You can't leave yourself in the open like this, you don't want the CPC (or the NDP) filling in those blanks for people.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Justin Trudeau officially crowned leader of the Liberal Party. Landslide victory with 80.1%.
one of my students wrote his exam today wearing a Martha Hall-Findlay shirt and pin. poor guy.
All I got from the LPC convention is that they will win the next election... somehow, and people want to vote for them... for some reason. You can't leave yourself in the open like this, you don't want the CPC (or the NDP) filling in those blanks for people.
It's not a policy convention. The NDP's 2013 convention was for policy. Ours is April 2014.
As long as Canadians don't become dumb
Ruh-roh
Jean Chretien just delivered a Knock-Out to the NDP, the Bloc, the PQ, Quebec Solidaire and Option Nationale (LOL) in French
Link please??
matthewwhatever
Member
It's not a policy convention. The NDP's 2013 convention was for policy. Ours is April 2014.
Have they said where yet?
Oh lord they are playing Deadmau5 as King Trudeau exits the stage.
To be honest, I don't think anybody even stood a chance against him in the race after seeing the results of those polls some time ago. Poor guy alright.
one of my students wrote his exam today wearing a Martha Hall-Findlay shirt and pin. poor guy.
To be honest, I don't think anybody even stood a chance against him in the race after seeing the results of those polls some time ago. Poor guy alright.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
It's not a policy convention. The NDP's 2013 convention was for policy. Ours is April 2014.
I guess I shall wait patiently until then. But the NDP have already differentiated themselves by calling the LPC a party vested deeply in corporate interests. The CPC's first attack ad is probably airing on some obscure radio channel right about now. It's dangerous to leave yourself out in the open like this.
matthewwhatever
Member
How does that even make sense? How can the third place party in the House of Commons be in the pocket of corporations? Especially when there aren't corporate donations?
Glorified G
Member
Justin Trudeau officially crowned leader of the Liberal Party. Landslide victory with 80.1%.
It pays to be born in the right family
You Are Viewtiful
Member
How does that even make sense? How can the third place party in the House of Commons be in the pocket of corporations? Especially when there aren't corporate donations?
It means they'll cut corporate taxes when they're in power. I'm not saying it's true, but the NDP is filling the blanks the LPC refuses to.
The NDP convention was actually constructive and many policies were discussed and I now know where the NDP stands, it restored a bit of faith for me.
And they did so by moving away from what got them to where they are. Today has tossed my choice of party up into the air. I'll wait and see where Trudeau sits on various issues, but the NDP shifting to the center is not a positive in my eyes.
NAFTA, tax breaks, Team Canada Missions under Chretien, social services cutbacks to balance the budget (which is admittedly less pro-corp)matthewwhatever said:How does that even make sense? How can the third place party in the House of Commons be in the pocket of corporations? Especially when there aren't corporate donations
You Are Viewtiful
Member
And they did so by moving away from what got them to where they are. Today has tossed my choice of party up into the air. I'll wait and see where Trudeau sits on various issues, but the NDP shifting to the center is not a positive in my eyes.
The only thing I see that falls under the "shifting to the centre" is the NDP dropping the word socialism. All the policy that was actually talked about still landed the NDP squarely in the socialist or social-democratic side of the spectrum. NDP isn't even a socialist party if you sit down and think about it, "social democratic" describes them much more accurately. I also think people are forgetting that the idea to drop the word socialism was actually Layton's idea, not Mulcair's. It's only now that they decided to discuss it.
matthewwhatever
Member
NAFTA, tax breaks, Team Canada Missions under Chretien, social services cutbacks to balance the budget (which is admittedly less pro-corp)
So...policies and actions from 20 years ago, some of which were enacted by a Progressive Conservative government.
How is that different from Westerners still angry about the NEP?
The only thing I see that falls under the "shifting to the centre" is the NDP dropping the word socialism. All the policy that was actually talked about still landed the NDP squarely in the socialist or social-democratic side of the spectrum. NDP isn't even a socialist party if you sit down and think about it, "social democratic" describes them much more accurately. I also think people are forgetting that the idea to drop the word socialism was actually Layton's idea, not Mulcair's. It's only now that they decided to discuss it.
As I said, I'll wait and see. If dropping the word because it scares off people who aren't in unions is all that it comes to, it'll be easy to stick with them. If they actually do move away from their soc-dem policies.
Also want to see where Trudeau makes his stances known, since Rae was basically just trying to keep the boat from sinking
Edit:
I guess it would depend on how you view the 2004 transition to Martin and his short time in power, since it's the most recent example (and what Harper trots out as something he's 'cleaned up/fixed').So...policies and actions from 20 years ago, some of which were enacted by a Progressive Conservative government.
How is that different from Westerners still angry about the NEP?
But to really answer your question, mostly, yes. Of course, by comparison to where the NDP has been, and currently is, the Liberals are for corporations.
Have they said where yet?
Still deciding. I post it as soon as the natboard gives me a heads up.
Also, fwiw, Trudeau's toying with the idea of legalizing most if not ALL substances.
Suckers fall for the name.
Now when the Liberal party becomes significant again, it just means vote splitting between the Libs and NDP, resulting in another victory for the PC's.
PCs are back. Believe.
Though it is fair to call the LPC a corporation's party. I mean things like national daycare, kelowna, and the social economy initiative just play into their hands. Scum.
The Liberals adopting more economic friendly policies isn't necessarily a bad thing from an electoral perspective.
The Conservatives have opened themselves up to questions on economic competency. Foreign takeover rules have become a mess. Tariffs have suddenly become an issue post budget, which is ironic considering the Conservatives are trying to push an image as the free trade party. Inability to push through a national securities regulator (though they aren't entirely at fault here). Whether you agree or not with their stance on trying to talk down the housing market, its fair to say the policy has been a bit contradictory to the party line.
There isn't any such thing as a corporate party in Canada. The term is thrown around far to loosely.
The Conservatives have opened themselves up to questions on economic competency. Foreign takeover rules have become a mess. Tariffs have suddenly become an issue post budget, which is ironic considering the Conservatives are trying to push an image as the free trade party. Inability to push through a national securities regulator (though they aren't entirely at fault here). Whether you agree or not with their stance on trying to talk down the housing market, its fair to say the policy has been a bit contradictory to the party line.
There isn't any such thing as a corporate party in Canada. The term is thrown around far to loosely.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
The Liberals adopting more economic friendly policies isn't necessarily a bad thing from an electoral perspective.
The Conservatives have opened themselves up to questions on economic competency. Foreign takeover rules have become a mess. Tariffs have suddenly become an issue post budget, which is ironic considering the Conservatives are trying to push an image as the free trade party. Inability to push through a national securities regulator (though they aren't entirely at fault here). Whether you agree or not with their stance on trying to talk down the housing market, its fair to say the policy has been a bit contradictory to the party line.
There isn't any such thing as a corporate party in Canada. The term is thrown around far to loosely.
Harper introducing cheap foreign labour to catalyze a race to the bottom and selling off our oil sands to multinational companies sounds pretty corporate to me. Corporations aren't allowed to donate to political parties at the federal level, but that doesn't mean politicians don't own or invest in any businesses or aren't expecting a fancy job to parachute onto once they've served their term. Canada isn't exactly a country known for its absence of political corruption. I wouldn't be too quick to brand the Liberals as corporatist but if you want to an example of what does count as corporatist, the Tories fit that description pretty well.
Justin Trudeau officially crowned leader of the Liberal Party. Landslide victory with 80.1%.
A clear sign of a competitive field of candidates.
A clear sign of a competitive field of candidates.
I was hoping Joyce Murray was going to make a bigger splash than she did.
Did Harper ever get away with that horrifyingly disgusting plan of privatizing prisons?
Trudeau doesn't even need a full slate of policies. He just needs like 2 or 3 easy to sell ideas, they don't even have to be big ones, and just repeat them constantly as examples of what he'd do in power. That way he can define himself by those easy sells instead of whatever the Conservatives try to fill the blank with.
Trudeau doesn't even need a full slate of policies. He just needs like 2 or 3 easy to sell ideas, they don't even have to be big ones, and just repeat them constantly as examples of what he'd do in power. That way he can define himself by those easy sells instead of whatever the Conservatives try to fill the blank with.
Harper introducing cheap foreign labour to catalyze a race to the bottom and selling off our oil sands to multinational companies sounds pretty corporate to me. Corporations aren't allowed to donate to political parties at the federal level, but that doesn't mean politicians don't own or invest in any businesses or aren't expecting a fancy job to parachute onto once they've served their term. Canada isn't exactly a country known for its absence of political corruption.
This is the exact hyperbole I'm talking about.
I don't even know the validity of the first statement, unless you are referring to the recent RBC temporary workers issue.
Selling off our oil to multinational companies? Foreign companies are just buying the right to extract oil and gas. They are buying the leases. Royalties are still paid to the AB, BC and SK governments. Taxes on corporate profits and labour still take place.
Where this notion that evil foreigners are gobbling up Canadian oil/gas resources comes from I have no clue. Canadian National, Suncor, Huskey, Encana, Cenovus, Canadian Oil Sands, Imperial Oil, Athabasca Oil, Bonavista and Crescent Point have their headquarters in Calgary. Not to mention the countless midstream/downstream producers that are also a necessity in the oil sands, but are often separate entities. I suspect if you looked at who owns the majority of the rights, they would be publicly listed companies on the TSX, or joint ventures with Canadian companies who don't have sufficient capital to develop the land on their own.
Canada, a relatively small country has one of the largest capital markets in the world and has attracted a lot of foreign capital that is necessary to develop the the resource sector.
Why is that? Because the country generally doesn't pick and choose who can invest here. In return, Canadian companies aren't blocked from doing transactions around the globe. Does Australia tell Cameco they can't open up a uranium mine? How about Mexico or Argentina telling one of Canada's dozens of gold companies their business isn't welcome. What if the Americans told Canadian financial institutions that their recent expansion into the States was unwelcome. Bank of Nova Scotia earns nearly half of its earnings outside of Canada. Manulife is expanding heavily in Asia. Should Great West Lifecos expansion into Ireland have been blocked just the other week? How about Fortis energy which owns utilities in the States, or Canadian Utilities and Transalta which own some generating capacity in Australia.
There are dozens of companies listed on the TSX that derive a significant portion of their revenue outside of Canada. This is a two way street.
What if nations started blocking the Canadian Pension Plan from buying assets. Surely Canadians would be outraged if the CPP's investment in Halcon, or Tomkin got rejected...right? What about if the OTPP wasn't able to invest in foreign assets, or one of dozens of pension plans in Canada for that matter?
/end rant
rant
You focused on the oil sands but not the cheap labour thing. I've been reading a lot lately about how temporary foreign workers are filling a lot of the resource extraction jobs and getting paid a lower wage than Canadians doing the same work. I think the influx of temporary foreign workers raises a lot of questions. If they're good enough to work here, why don't we let them immigrate with their families? I would support that. If they're not good enough to live here, why isn't a Canadian being hired instead? It seems to me that temporary foreign workers are being hired because they can be paid lower wages and no pension since they're not Canadians, not because they're the only people for the jobs.
Harper introducing cheap foreign labour to catalyze a race to the bottom and selling off our oil sands to multinational companies sounds pretty corporate to me. Corporations aren't allowed to donate to political parties at the federal level, but that doesn't mean politicians don't own or invest in any businesses or aren't expecting a fancy job to parachute onto once they've served their term. Canada isn't exactly a country known for its absence of political corruption. I wouldn't be too quick to brand the Liberals as corporatist but if you want to an example of what does count as corporatist, the Tories fit that description pretty well.
I don't think there was any ill intentions behind the Temporary Foreign Workers program. It's mainly to address a lot of the very real shortages here in Alberta for skilled tradespersons. However, somewhere along the line, the program got really messed up and people were being imported for unskilled jobs.
In as far as corporate takeovers are concerned, there were many cases where foreign takeovers were rejected (ex. BHP and Potash Corp). The only valid objection to the CNOOC deal was that, like with Wind Mobile, is that the rules are not clear for foreign investment; the government becomes yet another factor and deals can be approved or canceled on political whims.
You focused on the oil sands but not the cheap labour thing. I've been reading a lot lately about how temporary foreign workers are filling a lot of the resource extraction jobs and getting paid a lower wage than Canadians doing the same work. I think the influx of temporary foreign workers raises a lot of questions. If they're good enough to work here, why don't we let them immigrate with their families? I would support that. If they're not good enough to live here, why isn't a Canadian being hired instead? It seems to me that temporary foreign workers are being hired because they can be paid lower wages and no pension since they're not Canadians, not because they're the only people for the jobs.
And that's exactly one of the unintended consequences of the TFW program.
You focused on the oil sands but not the cheap labour thing. I've been reading a lot lately about how temporary foreign workers are filling a lot of the resource extraction jobs and getting paid a lower wage than Canadians doing the same work. I think the influx of temporary foreign workers raises a lot of questions. If they're good enough to work here, why don't we let them immigrate with their families? I would support that. If they're not good enough to live here, why isn't a Canadian being hired instead? It seems to me that temporary foreign workers are being hired because they can be paid lower wages and no pension since they're not Canadians, not because they're the only people for the jobs.
I haven't followed the TFW issue closely, that is why I didn't comment on it.
Though from the sounds of it, we would be better if skilled labour was given a path to citizenship, or if the government further encouraged post secondary education for trades. However, I do have problems with what the Alberta government is doing right now in trying to organize universities to fit the provinces economic diversification plans. Harper's comment about there being too many BA's in Canada is a little off-putting as well, though I somewhat agree with the notion. No one has really solved the skilled labour shortage issue.
Clearly not everyone is motivated by high wages, or else there would have been more tradespeople in Alberta long before the need for temporary foreign workers.
Doug Saunders has a good book called Arrival City which deals a bit with the issue of immigration. More or less saying if you are going to invite immigrants into a country you have to give them something to work towards (building a community, etc).
It will be interesting to see if the Startup Visa Program has similar issues or not.
matthewwhatever
Member
A clear sign of a competitive field of candidates.
Aren't you from Alberta? I'd think the fact your last two premiers weren't Gary Mar and Jim Dinning should be enough for you to recognize that just because someone is an obvious front runner, that doesn't mean they can coast to easy victories. I'm pretty sure that if Trudeau had run a lousy campaign, he could have been caught.
Aren't you from Alberta? I'd think the fact your last two premiers weren't Gary Mar and Jim Dinning should be enough for you to recognize that just because someone is an obvious front runner, that doesn't mean they can coast to easy victories. I'm pretty sure that if Trudeau had run a lousy campaign, he could have been caught.
Stephen Carter am cry.
I haven't followed the TFW issue closely, that is why I didn't comment on it.
Though from the sounds of it, we would be better if skilled labour was given a path to citizenship, or if the government further encouraged post secondary education for trades. However, I do have problems with what the Alberta government is doing right now in trying to organize universities to fit the provinces economic diversification plans. Harper's comment about there being too many BA's in Canada is a little off-putting as well, though I somewhat agree with the notion. No one has really solved the skilled labour shortage issue.
Clearly not everyone is motivated by high wages, or else there would have been more tradespeople in Alberta long before the need for temporary foreign workers.
Doug Saunders has a good book called Arrival City which deals a bit with the issue of immigration. More or less saying if you are going to invite immigrants into a country you have to give them something to work towards (building a community, etc).
It will be interesting to see if the Startup Visa Program has similar issues or not.
They already have something like that; it's called the points system in immigration. There's also the Federal Skilled Workers program, which is currently on hold.
Post-secondary education is a provincial mandate. However, that didn't stop the federal government from making ill-thought out Canada Jobs Grant.
Aren't you from Alberta? I'd think the fact your last two premiers weren't Gary Mar and Jim Dinning should be enough for you to recognize that just because someone is an obvious front runner, that doesn't mean they can coast to easy victories. I'm pretty sure that if Trudeau had run a lousy campaign, he could have been caught.
Gary Mar and Jim Dinning were never frontrunners and were never going to win. That much was clear right from the beginning.
Aren't you from Alberta? I'd think the fact your last two premiers weren't Gary Mar and Jim Dinning should be enough for you to recognize that just because someone is an obvious front runner, that doesn't mean they can coast to easy victories. I'm pretty sure that if Trudeau had run a lousy campaign, he could have been caught.
Or maybe being from Alberta I know an effectively rigged game when I see one.
Or maybe being from Alberta I know an effectively rigged game when I see one.
I hope you're not implying that the national board rigged the race in favour of Trudeau. Knowing most of the guys on it personally, that'd be some right bullshit.
I hope you're not implying that the national board rigged the race in favour of Trudeau. Knowing most of the guys on it personally, that'd be some right bullshit.
Nope. But I do think anyone with a prayer in hell of beating his name recognition got the fuck out of his way to save some face.
That's why I said effectively rigged. It's much the same in Alberta, there's no widespread gerrymandering or vote suppression, but it's well known that success in politics in Alberta follow a particular path. Running for the PCs.
equippedwithtowel
Member
Nope. But I do think anyone with a prayer in hell of beating his name recognition got the fuck out of his way to save some face.
That's why I said effectively rigged. It's much the same in Alberta, there's no widespread gerrymandering or vote suppression, but it's well known that success in politics in Alberta follow a particular path. Running for the PCs.
Fortunately for the libs politics is literally a popularity contest.
Nope. But I do think anyone with a prayer in hell of beating his name recognition got the fuck out of his way to save some face.
That's why I said effectively rigged.
Individuals making an independent choice whether they want to run/ not run against a guy with a popular name makes it effectively rigged? So, not rigged then. Ok.
Fortunately for the libs politics is literally a popularity contest.
People are stupid and shallow, might as well go along with it mang.
To be perfectly fair, Trudeau's ground game was miles ahead of any other candidate. No other person had the same personnel, strategists, advisors etc compared to Trudeau.
edit: Also, Trudeau, after the debates and campaigns, is undoubtedly the right leader for the Liberals for the right reasons.
edit: Also, Trudeau, after the debates and campaigns, is undoubtedly the right leader for the Liberals for the right reasons.
There isn't a rolleyes gif in the world big enough for right now.
I agree.
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