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Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland
- Thread starter DreamMachine
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The admission of guilt tends to be a stronger motivator for voter outrage in Canada than the accusation. One of the reasons the Harper Conservatives are so shifty about anything that would require them to admit guilt on anything, and why they've gotten so good at rewriting history.
equippedwithtowel
Member
lol, exactly.
Trudeau is not Stephan Dion and it'll take a bit more to get traction on him.
I remember some news articles describing him as a high school teacher. I think that's his main profession.
I don't get why that would be an attack on him though. The recent attack ads just seem like grasping at straws.
BladeWorker
Member
The overall theme that the ad speaks to - that he's out of his depth leading a national party, and, in his hopes, a country - is a valid point among Canadians and will resonate. However sloppily they got there - 14-year-old quotes taken out of context and an oddly-used video taken from a charity event - the point still stands.
Whether it will ultimately change the political landscape remains to be seen. But, the point is valid. "He's just not ready" is a go-to effective line for incumbents, and it really can work absent a strong and convincing response. Trudeau's team stays silent at their peril.
BladeWorker
Member
Not so much "know better" as "would brush off the ads in the same way that their teams did".
When you don't give people enough information about you to form an opinion, they won't. And, barring real, unaddressed anger, they'd rather take the guy (or gal) they know than the guy they don't, in a time of uncertainty.
I think the main problem with Dion and Ignatieff was that they seemed kinda weak and flimsy, and the party's leader is more important than the party's platform. At least, that would explain why so many people voted for the NDP Jack Layton.
If Trudeau can grow a badass mustache like Layton, the Liberals are guaranteed to win a landslide.
If Trudeau can grow a badass mustache like Layton, the Liberals are guaranteed to win a landslide.
Yeah, regardless if there's no presence in 30% of the country.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
I feel like doing a grassroots smear campaign against harper here in calgary, mainly by developing some nice stickers that explain why harper doesn't represent me as a canadian.
That might be a good message in Kensington, but you're not going to find much support around the city. I don't think people here even really like Harper all that much, but that's not the way they'd say it.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
just got to make up things like "harper has created a platform which allow his church to avoid paying millions in taxes, does that represent you?"
spin is fun.
I think one of the reasons people fail against Harper so consistently is in thinking that his supporters don't like him and are waiting for an alternative. I don't see how you can reconcile that with his, frankly, stellar approval numbers.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Stellar? Are we looking at the same numbers? Last I remember his approval/disapproval was something like 30/60. Or do you mean Alberta-specific?
I was speaking more specifically to Alberta, but I stand by it to some degree nationally as well.
He has both high approval and high disapproval (for a sitting PM or federal leader). His positives, for most of his run as PM, have generally been higher than his opponents.
That he also has a very galvanized opposition is also true.
Also, http://www.nanosresearch.com/library/polls/2013-02-LeadershipE.pdf
I might be projecting too much, but I do think it's true. The enchantment of 2005 has worn away. Calgary's not going to vote Liberal or NDP, but I haven't heard much enthusiasm.
Maybe I don't talk to the right people these days.
I mostly interact with lefties myself, so I constantly have to check myself against groupthink. When I do experience the views of a CPC/Harper-booster it definitely still strikes me as an intense level of support. Maybe an intensity that the left seems largely incapable of, even.
matthewwhatever
Member
From an EKOS poll in February, Mulcair only has 56% approval from NDP supporters, whereas Harper is at 76%. Not sure how accurate that is, though, since it shows Trudeau at 60%, when (maybe disgruntled Garneau supporters who didn't want to jump ship?).
That said, I think Conservative voters up here are basically the same as Republican voters in the US: as long as the politician has the party affiliation, they'll have intense, diehard supporters -- and the more the opposition dislikes him, the more ardent their affections will be. And since non-Conservatives really, really loathe Stephen Harper, Conservatives are basically ready to deify him.
Holy shit this is amazing. Why did he ever shave it off?
Grew it and shaved it for charity.
My man. That's a worthy reason.
Nope.
I just want to mention that Bob Rae went skinny-dipping with Rick Mercer ... just for shits and giggles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vm4kvZV_fg&t=5m43s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vm4kvZV_fg&t=5m43s
LOL, this clip was actually in his tribute video.
I'm banking on Brison to pull that.
So, I was listening to the local political commentary and the pundits were saying that Edmontonians tend to vote Liberal when they actually have a chance of winning. Any truth in that? Edmonton tends to be quite liberal compared to the rest of Alberta, but we haven't voted much red/orange for a very long time now.
Tories win less overwhelmingly I guess.
killer rin
Member
"A Drama Teacher"- Well, that pretty much guarantees that Drama Teachers wont be voting in conservative. I know I'd consider it insulting if I was a Drama Teacher, or teacher of any kind.
Secretly its all part of the plan. Give them a bunch of easy stuff to hit you on so they don't feel the need to go deeper.
I wish! Would be awesome for whoever did it
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Isn't there an NDP riding somewhere in Edmonton?
Edmonton didn't get the name Redmonton from nowhere, but it hasn't really been particularly true for a while. The last chance of toppling the provincial PCs in Alberta came from a popular Edmonton mayor taking over the Liberal party. Ralph Klein still basically creamed him, though.
But really, if there's anywhere in the province where seats are competitive at all it's Edmonton. But in the last election they were mostly competitive for the NDP, not the Liberals.
Edmonton-Strathcona, the only opposition seat in all of Alberta. Also the location of the most arty university in the province.
That's what I got from it too. Teachers don't know about responsibility or how to run things.
Which after living under Mike Harris could go either way I suppose.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Provincial politics but Manitoba NDP raising PST from 7% to 8%. Pretty disappointing to hear since that goes against NDP ideology.
And in Ontario, the Mississauga gas plant cancellation confirmed to be $275 million. Oakville cost $968 million so the total of both is $1.243 billion. I'm just about sick and tired of all these Liberal and privatization scandals. Is there ANY example of where privatization was actually a success? It's only been disaster after disaster.
And in Ontario, the Mississauga gas plant cancellation confirmed to be $275 million. Oakville cost $968 million so the total of both is $1.243 billion. I'm just about sick and tired of all these Liberal and privatization scandals. Is there ANY example of where privatization was actually a success? It's only been disaster after disaster.
Serious? I'll be the first to say that privatization doesn't always work- particularly in noncompetitive spaces (see: public transit), but to say that it never does is nuts.
Well, personally I'd rather work for the company I work for than The Hudson Bay Company, so I'm gonna say that yes it occasionally works out.
CitizenVectron
Member
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/17/surge-in-donations-to-liver/
As a result of the Tory attacks on Trudeau, donations to the Liver foundation have soared, so far this week they have collected double what they normally do in a month. Most are donating privately, but over $10,000 in donations have come from hundreds of anonymous donors in the name of Justin Trudeau.
As a result of the Tory attacks on Trudeau, donations to the Liver foundation have soared, so far this week they have collected double what they normally do in a month. Most are donating privately, but over $10,000 in donations have come from hundreds of anonymous donors in the name of Justin Trudeau.
killer rin
Member
..Wait... What? Did he actually do that or is my sarcasm meter broken?
CitizenVectron
Member
Trudeau's response to the attack was to say he felt bad for the families, etc, etc (the usual platitudes) and then said that we need to examine the root cause of extremism and terrorism. He said that the person who did this felt excluded from society, and we need to figure out why and try to prevent the action in the first place. Harper responded by saying we shouldn't be rationalizing or making excuses for the bombing, but should instead be hunting down the person and punishing them.
Personally, Trudeau is 100% correct in that it's smarter (and cheaper) to prevent a cavity than to replace a tooth, but it's also a nuanced message, which is tough to sell against a "crime is bad, bad guys need to go to jail" message. So I give Trudeau points for being correct (also he also wants to hunt this guy down, obviously), and Harper points for being politically astute, but not as correct. Even if you want to hunt down the guy, you should also want to take steps to get to the root cause of terrorism and extremism to stop it.
Slurpy2k20
Member
I was actually shocked he said what he did during that interview, did not expect that kind of phrasing, and definitely respect him more for it. But as soon as the words came out of his mouth I knew he would be pummeled for it by his opponents.
Oh, and the guy took off his SHIRT which was- wait for it- worn on top of an UNDERSHIRT- to raise money for charity? And I'm support so trust this type of man to run the economy and protect my country?! INSANITY.
Seriously, fuck you, Harper.
Trudeau said we should figure out why he became a terrorist in the first place to stop future attacks. Consequently, Harper called him a terrorist sympathizer or some shit.
equippedwithtowel
Member
CitizenVectron
Member
Well, Diaspora generalized Harper's response quite a bit. Trudeau is correct in his assessment and Harper did attack him unfairly for it, but Harper did not equate him with being a sympathizer.
equippedwithtowel
Member
I figured, Harper isn't that overtly stupid.
There's a bit of that underlying the message which is aimed at the faithful though.
Harper came out unprovoked (as in wasn't asked about it by reporters) and said, we shouldn't try to rationalize these people/situations, or find the cause, which was obviously in response to Trudeau.
And all I can say is "What?" We don't want to know the cause? Uh, Stephen (may I call you Stephen?), knowing the could potentially stop them from happening in the future, saving lives. Why don't we want to know he cause again? Does he feel the need to respond to everything Trudeau says? Is he that intimidated, or is this part of the usual 'frame the narrative our way', and he's simply stumbling at every turn?
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