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Canada warns immigrants facing deportation in the US
- Thread starter dolabla
- Start date
Shadow Puppetry
Member
Porque tho
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Psh
Warnings didnt stop the hispanic community from jumping the fence to the US
It wont stop us from crossing over to Canada, eh
Warnings didnt stop the hispanic community from jumping the fence to the US
It wont stop us from crossing over to Canada, eh
.Detective.
Member
It's kind of crazy to think we now live in a time where fleeing from a war torn 3rd world country as a refugee has been confused by the minds of many to be the same as trying to flee from the US.
Trudeau and our government's stance has not changed. We continue to take in refugees year over year, but there is a difference between that and people trying to leave the US because of a situation they brought upon themselves.
Trudeau and our government's stance has not changed. We continue to take in refugees year over year, but there is a difference between that and people trying to leave the US because of a situation they brought upon themselves.
BlackDoomShadow
Member
"Roosevelt and our government's stance has not changed. We continue to take in refugees year over year, but there is a difference between that and people trying to leave Germany because of a situation they brought upon themselves."
Give me a fucking break. A quarter of the country (almost entirely white) voting for Trump does not somehow justify human rights abuses and violence towards everyone else in the country.
Most people illegally crossing arent going to work....
We need more immigrants but not like this.
JordanN
Banned
So why did they cross in the first place?
Take in all the immigrants and just give them jobs like sweeping floors. Or my idea for immigration, make it mandatory to serve in the army for 1 year, but everything else would be paid for.
Because they are about to get kicked out of the US
cryptosporidium
Member
That video from the cbc of the police telling nigerians at the busiest illegal crossing that they are doing something illegal and informing them of the legal process only for them to essentially say "I dont care what you have to say" and cross anyways infuriated the shit out of me.
seriously, please respect our laws, we do not depend on illegal immigrants for labour like the US and we should keep it that way (though we do have something like that with temp workers im aware of but thats legal and accounted for)
also to the posters above, we take in something like 1/4 of a million immigrants a year, which is a lot considering our population
seriously, please respect our laws, we do not depend on illegal immigrants for labour like the US and we should keep it that way (though we do have something like that with temp workers im aware of but thats legal and accounted for)
also to the posters above, we take in something like 1/4 of a million immigrants a year, which is a lot considering our population
This isn't anything different from what was said earlier. What a poorly written article/headline.
The original message was "To those fleeing persecution, terror & war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength #WelcomeToCanada" and it's the same now. Just because you're facing deportation doesn't necessarily mean you'll qualify for that criteria.
The original message was "To those fleeing persecution, terror & war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength #WelcomeToCanada" and it's the same now. Just because you're facing deportation doesn't necessarily mean you'll qualify for that criteria.
Crazymoogle
Member
JordanN said:
We just don't have the infrastructure to support it. There isn't another 65 million jobs waiting, or 65 million houses, and our actual inhabitable land compared to total land is actually really small. That's why our population is concentrated close to the border, and why the immigration problem was so bad that Quebec was housing refugees at Olympic Stadium. I think Canada should encourage immigration, but the country needs to do a lot of work to prepare for it, both in terms of influx and also procedure (the wait times for many visa procedures is long, to the point they often recommend you file from outside the country).
Conciliator
Banned
laws are for people with options
Iva Demilcol
Member
In other words: "We don't want you here either"
.Detective.
Member
That is not the same as people trying to claim refugee status from the current US, when there are actual refugees from countries where people are hunted down and killed due to war atrocities, and the like.
The US currently(while fucked up because of the continuing state of affairs and inbalance within it's own borders - I am not disagreeing with you entirely because it is ridiculous to see such a large and supposed 1st world country continue to consistently shit the bed because of greed and stupidity) is not the same as the situation in Syria, Bosnia(during the 90's), Sri Lanka(during their civil war and genocides), Somalia etc.
While no system is perfect, one of the values of the Canadian system is that it is leagues better and more fair(points based) than many others. We depend on immigration in this country, and always will, but in a manner that is fair to all. Diversity, inclusion, multiculturalism and being a strong mosaic of peoples is what we thrive on. That has and will never change.
Personally, I hope it never gets to the point of other countries across our world's history, but it's entirely apples and oranges at the current moment to compare the situation in the US to actual collapsed countries.
Also, props to the user farisr for bringing up the actual quote from January when the travel ban fuckery occured.
curiouscharles
Member
1000% agreed.
bring on the immigrants, we fucken need em.
been seeing more black people in VICTORIA BC of all places lately, makes me feel racist almost just how freaking happy it makes me.
i even met a hispanic man the other day, in VICTORIA!
is it really that many?
i was under the impression / assumption we had some of the strictest immigration laws in the world?
if we're taking in 1/4 mil every year why has our population remained stagnant ever since i was born? [okay, it's gone up 3 million since i first checked at age 10, and i'm 33 now]
I understand Canada's position but how the fuck did they bring it on themselves?
facetheslayer92
Member
Canadas population isnt supposed to grow by a whole lot more this century. Its absolutely insane how few people live there. Almost all of the gains must be coming from immigrants, but even then its supposed to be under 50 million for many decades.
curiouscharles
Member
yeah our population stagnancy is actually a pressing concern at the moment [and only moreso as each year goes on].
when the baby boomers die we're all gon' be fucked.
rrvv
Member
By entering a country illegally. They should now that by doing that. They risk to get deportation.
In other words if you're an economic migrant, you need to follow the procedures to immigrate to Canada. You don't get special treatment over people fleeing war zones. The majority of the people illegally coming from the United States are not affected by Trump's travel ban, and aren't refugees from the world's biggest hot spots.
Yeah this is the angle played by the government both on official channels and through media. Basically to get refugee status you must prove there is danger for your life in your home country. Which is why when there was a massive influx of people from Haiti after Trump took some disgusting actions that border agents would tell them they would be welcome to try that angle but it's highly unlikely it would work. There was so many they had to set up temporary tents to house them. The camp was dismantled today too.
Otherwise if you aren't a refugee you need to follow immigration protocol and it could be hard to many of them to qualify.
These people deserve respect too. Military service is long gone here and to put it back for only some members of the population would be discriminatory.
.Detective.
Member
Someone needs to edit the thread OP, as this is basically the point we are all trying to make.
A lot of these are people had no say in the matter and have lived in the U.S. since they were children and now have no status and were never even able to vote. Go tell them they brought it on themselves.
So it's dreamers coming across the border? Odd that many of those filmed at the border barely speak English (can't be dreamers) and aren't from countries experiencing war (not refugees). Syrian family at our border that somehow got into the US and need refuge? Let them in. Some bloke who snuck into America to make a better living for himself and now wants to move on over to Canada? There's a procedure.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
So, in short, Canada likes people to follow their immigration laws. Which, if the people at risk of deportation had done so in the US, they wouldn't be at risk of getting deported.
Good on Canada for actually wanting to enforce their immigration laws. If only the US was more like Canada in that fashion.
Good on Canada for actually wanting to enforce their immigration laws. If only the US was more like Canada in that fashion.
Well that's just not true.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/11/...t-workforce-stable-after-the-great-recession/
People have been fleeing violence and civil conflicts in Central and South America to the United States for decades without being officially recognized as refugees.
Yes. Are they all? No, but that doesn't mean they deserved this.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Agreed. Illegal immigrants are typically very hard working people. Unfortunately, due to their inability to get good paying jobs legally, they typically don't make much money and end up being net recipients of government aid, rather than a boon to the economy at large.
Tell that to Seidu Mohammed: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...seeker-frostbitten-refugee-manitoba-1.4121034
Clearly it was his fault that he was outed, fled for his life from a country that sees homosexuality as a crime punishable by death and was denied refugee status because of an arbitrary fee that is designed to systemically (and disproportionately) discriminate against minorities.
ALSO: Everyone in this thread, stop using the term "illegal immigration/immigrants". There's nothing "illegal" about what they're doing. What they are is undocumented immigrants.
They don't deserve it, but the situation Dreamers face in that the Orange Cunt wants to deport them back to countries they have never lived in, is exactly the sort of thing our immigrant system could work with. Many of them are educated, they can speak one of the two official languages fluently, and they would help our country and our economy greatly if they came here. But hopping the border isn't the way they should be doing it.
^ But your article already mentions that he won his case to stay in Canada. We can't send people back to countries where their lives are in danger if they can prove that's the case. People are talking specifically about economic migrants, which most of the people illegally crossing into Canada are.
GameAddict411
Member
Unfortunately, miss information is very common and it's not shocking that Canada is just not going to accept everyone. The fact only a small minority meet the definition of a refugee in Canada and the United States. Here are the five main categories:
1- based on political asylum
2- based on being a social group( religious persecuted minority, or LGBT community).
3- based on religion practice which ties with point 2.
4- persecuted race
5- nationality.
This five points that define a refugee are recognize in Canada and the US. It's hard to believe 50k Haitians qualify based on these definitions of a refugee. There is no doubt a few hundred might qualify to stay in the Canada, but that's also true if they applied for asylum in the US(ignoring the ridiculous processing time). The reality is that thousands are going to be deported from Canada to their home country. In fact, I would argue that they were safe in the US with being out of status than to go to Canada. Another thing to consider is that the US department of state gave more benefits to Haitians and for longer than Canada. Canada withheld the removal of Haitians after the disaster but it actually expired in 2016. In the US is expiring soon.
1- based on political asylum
2- based on being a social group( religious persecuted minority, or LGBT community).
3- based on religion practice which ties with point 2.
4- persecuted race
5- nationality.
This five points that define a refugee are recognize in Canada and the US. It's hard to believe 50k Haitians qualify based on these definitions of a refugee. There is no doubt a few hundred might qualify to stay in the Canada, but that's also true if they applied for asylum in the US(ignoring the ridiculous processing time). The reality is that thousands are going to be deported from Canada to their home country. In fact, I would argue that they were safe in the US with being out of status than to go to Canada. Another thing to consider is that the US department of state gave more benefits to Haitians and for longer than Canada. Canada withheld the removal of Haitians after the disaster but it actually expired in 2016. In the US is expiring soon.
I didn't say that is the way they should be doing it, I was saying they did not bring it on themselves but thanks for letting me know who is worthy and who isn't up there.
Sigh. This tortures me. People who come into countries illegally live off the dregs o.f society and more often than not, do not have terribly great lives. To be brushed off and told to follow the law is such an awful, cold sentiment. People who cross the border do so because it's literally all they can do.
It's a horrible system that we've created and live in. The Canadian lawmakers, despite coming off as cruel, are merely responding to the possibility that migrants will flock to Canada expecting to be treated better.
People conflate the immigration issue as one at odds with a poverty issue when they're honestly one in the same. Hence the qualification of being able to seek asylum posted above. They're not economic reasons.
I'm fairly certain I won't see a solution to this in my lifetime. Maybe I just have a lack of imagination..
It's a horrible system that we've created and live in. The Canadian lawmakers, despite coming off as cruel, are merely responding to the possibility that migrants will flock to Canada expecting to be treated better.
People conflate the immigration issue as one at odds with a poverty issue when they're honestly one in the same. Hence the qualification of being able to seek asylum posted above. They're not economic reasons.
I'm fairly certain I won't see a solution to this in my lifetime. Maybe I just have a lack of imagination..
And he meet the criteria for refugee status. This is not what this thread is about.
rrvv
Member
Well I believe for those kind of case. US and Canada should give them some protection. But that another different topic
Either way. Unless they from war torn country. There is nothing stopping Canada to simply say "go back to your own country".
I mean that's fine, Canada obviously can. It's just that I've heard so much about how accepting and wanted they were there. I guess that wears out quick.
.Detective.
Member
Wait? What point are you trying to make? I literally mentioned earlier that there is a difference with fleeing for your life(genocide, war, criminal atrocities) and folks who are essentially what can be considered an economic migrant due to a failure on the US's part.
This just continues to prove how our system works, and just reinforces the issues with the US in general.
We didn't even turn away those folks from Haiti who are fleeing the US, not fleeing Haiti. There were housed, fed, and had their cases documented for review, while staying at the old Expo Stadium in Montreal. However trying to jump the line versus the vast majority of refugees from dire/immediate situations is not how Canada operates. Our immigration officers even treat these folks different(at the end of the day we are all human beings, but there is a system and a process that needs to be followed) in that they try to educate them of what they are doing, and what will occur if they still proceed to cross.
You have selected one person out of many, whereas dreamers/economic migrants/whatever you wish to classify the many(versus the few), are the opposite.
GameAddict411
Member
That article about the gay guy from Ghana seems very fishy to me. There are no fees related to applying for asylum in the United States. If they were referring to bail bond because he was arrested based on being out of status, that doesn't mean they were going to deported him. He would be put through trial in immigration court even if he was detained. It's not simply denied because he couldn't pay a fee.
Edit: the fact he was free to cross to Canada on foot indicate they weren't referring to immigration detention fees. Might be lawyer fees? Who knows.
My point is that, contrary to the poster I was replying to, blaming them for the current outcome i.e. crossing the border between the U.S. and Canada as if being in America automatically means they're safe or that it's their fault for ending up in their current predicament when there are factors they can't control and thus may require them to seek refuge in Canada out of fear for being deported from the United States is grossly misinformed surrounding the people who are seeking said refugee status, not to mention the current treatment of said individuals once they cross the border before many of them can apply for refugee status. While Seidu was lucky enough to win his case, other people crossing our border, many of whom also fled out of fear of deportation from the United States thanks to the rotting orange, do not have their cases approved and/or are being held indefinitely in detention centers with little recourse for applying as an economic immigrant or so on, to say nothing of the conditions they faced before they could apply.
Where'd you get that one from, Facebook? It goes against everything I've ever read on the net benefits of immigration.
ITT, people show their asses by assuming people likely to face deportation in the US are all uneducated day laborers who chose to border hop for a quick buck.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
At most maybe you can theoretically say that if not for all the provisions specifically saying not to give government benefits to undocumented immigrants, than maybe undocumented immigrants could be a net negative because there's not much data to support that either way? But there is no way to use the data available to say that undocumented immigration has been a net negative to canada or america.
I think Australia in the past came closest to that level of openness, and they didn't really see that net negative, which was explained away by conservatives by geography, until nationalism took over Australia and made it no longer a good example of open immigration.
I think Australia in the past came closest to that level of openness, and they didn't really see that net negative, which was explained away by conservatives by geography, until nationalism took over Australia and made it no longer a good example of open immigration.
killer rin
Member
Eh, this argument on Jobs has always been a shaky argument. Right now we don't have a need for 65million available jobs, so we haven't bothered to make them. If more people come in, that's more people paying into the economy and more jobs that will be needed and created to serve those people. It also ignores immigrants starting their own businesses or becoming self-employed.
You have a point when it comes to housing, in fact it's the most difficult, legitimate problem that would come of rapidly increasing the population.
As for Inhabitable Land, that is a throwup topic. At our current technological level, we can build houses anywhere. We could build a city on a swamp if we wanted to, put one in the far north or in the middle of the hudson bay or great lakes. Thats not a problem. The main issue is that our best farmland is in Southern Ontario. But even then, we dont use 100% of the best farmland area. There is a ton of locations that are perfect for farmland in Southern Ontario which are still completely forested. Locations that would be prime land for farming if only we had the economical or logistical need to use it. Thats before you even get into the fact that push comes to shove, Greenhouses are perfectly valid forms of agriculture and we could chuck those in Alert Nunavut (Hyperbole example, because if you wanted the most efficient greenhouse you would place them near the USA Border for easy maintenance and better growing conditions for the agriculture inside for a year round growth).
Worst case scenario though, you make the Major cities across Canada more denser, or if we really wanted to shove everyone in Southern Ontario, Expand Ottawa more westward into the Canadian Shield, completely fill up areas around Lake Ontario and throw a bunch at Windsor/Sarnia. Build up Sault Ste Marie or Sudbury as a major city. Of course though, Canada isn't just Ontario and I'm sure we can find plenty people who would be willing to move to some of our other World Class cities.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Where'd you get that one from, Facebook? It goes against everything I've ever read on the net benefits of immigration.
ITT, people show their asses by assuming people likely to face deportation in the US are all uneducated day laborers who chose to border hop for a quick buck.
No there's established literature around undocumented immigrants -- undocumented is the key operative word here -- taking up a larger than expected share of welfare. (think it was on Vox, can't find it now).
But, children of these immigrants are on the whole far more productive than native born citizens, and more than make up for whatever resource their parents are taking up.
Dreamers aside (due to real dangers of being deported to a country they were never raised in), economic migrants have to go through the immigration process. The only people I would have no issue trying to cross our borders are people fleeing war or oppression. We didn't put out a neon sign and declare to the world, come hither all who want to come.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Absolutely.
As a Canadian in Ontario, why would I be in favor of letting in as many people as possible? I prefer to have free space, not to mention the benefits of less pollution and a chance for wildlife to thrive. It's what I find least appealing in most other countries and cities. We should be pushing to maintain a healthy sustainable population not looking to use every possible inch.
Maybe in the US, but you cant get welfare in Canada without a canadian citizenship.
BoosterDuck
Banned
damn straight
nothing stops us from selling carne asada tortas con pico de gallo anywhere
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