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[Sakura]

I don't really understand why we should let Dreamers in. I understand that they would be deported to countries they were never raised in... but they were never raised in Canada either.
If you are a Dreamer from Mexico you likely have more family in Mexico than in Canada, and sure you can speak English, but I have a hard time believing that people raised by parents who speak Spanish can't speak a lick of Spanish themselves. We shouldn't take them in just because they'd rather live in Canada than Mexico, that's not really how it works.
If they are from a war torn country, etc then we have a process for that and can take them in as refugees, but if that isn't the case, then I don't see why we should be taking them in.

if we're taking in 1/4 mil every year why has our population remained stagnant ever since i was born? [okay, it's gone up 3 million since i first checked at age 10, and i'm 33 now]

The population in 2016 was 35 million. The population in 1996, when you were age 12 or so, was 28.8 million. That means it increased more than 6 million since you were 10, not sure where you are getting 3 million from.
I don't see how you can call that stagnant. That's an increase of more than 20 percent. That increase alone in 20 or so years, is more than the entire population of countries like Ireland or Norway.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

Most people illegally crossing arent going to work....

We need more immigrants but not like this.

I don't really understand why we should let Dreamers in. I understand that they would be deported to countries they were never raised in... but they were never raised in Canada either.
If you are a Dreamer from Mexico you likely have more family in Mexico than in Canada, and sure you can speak English, but I have a hard time believing that people raised by parents who speak Spanish can't speak a lick of Spanish themselves. We shouldn't take them in just because they'd rather live in Canada than Mexico, that's not really how it works.
If they are from a war torn country, etc then we have a process for that and can take them in as refugees, but if that isn't the case, then I don't see why we should be taking them in.

In other words if you're an economic migrant, you need to follow the procedures to immigrate to Canada. You don't get special treatment over people fleeing war zones. The majority of the people illegally coming from the United States are not affected by Trump's travel ban, and aren't refugees from the world's biggest hot spots.

That video from the cbc of the police telling nigerians at the busiest illegal crossing that they are doing something illegal and informing them of the legal process only for them to essentially say "I dont care what you have to say" and cross anyways infuriated the shit out of me.

seriously, please respect our laws, we do not depend on illegal immigrants for labour like the US and we should keep it that way (though we do have something like that with temp workers im aware of but thats legal and accounted for)

also to the posters above, we take in something like 1/4 of a million immigrants a year, which is a lot considering our population

This isn't anything different from what was said earlier. What a poorly written article/headline.

The original message was "To those fleeing persecution, terror & war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength #WelcomeToCanada" and it's the same now. Just because you're facing deportation doesn't necessarily mean you'll qualify for that criteria.

We just don't have the infrastructure to support it. There isn't another 65 million jobs waiting, or 65 million houses, and our actual inhabitable land compared to total land is actually really small. That's why our population is concentrated close to the border, and why the immigration problem was so bad that Quebec was housing refugees at Olympic Stadium. I think Canada should encourage immigration, but the country needs to do a lot of work to prepare for it, both in terms of influx and also procedure (the wait times for many visa procedures is long, to the point they often recommend you file from outside the country).

So, using your rationale for the US, you're okay with the Trump wall then?

EDIT: I might have missed some other posts to quote. A lot of Canadians here are making excuses for not taking in illegal immigrants. They should all be for the Trump wall. Or is it a "do what I say, not what I do" kind of deal?

 

[michaelius]

So why did they cross in the first place?

Take in all the immigrants and just give them jobs like sweeping floors. Or my idea for immigration, make it mandatory to serve in the army for 1 year, but everything else would be paid for.

You would want to arm people who didn't bother to defend their home to defend yours?

 

[Darknight]

No there's established literature around undocumented immigrants -- undocumented is the key operative word here -- taking up a larger than expected share of welfare. (think it was on Vox, can't find it now).

But, children of these immigrants are on the whole far more productive than native born citizens, and more than make up for whatever resource their parents are taking up.

Are you talking about Canada's undocumented Immigrants or US undocumented immigrants?

Just to be clear, in the US, undocumented immigrants do not get benefits. That is a lie of the conservatives. There are some things that help you in certain states for instance in California, I think you can take out an ID (that is not a regular ID) which I believe lets you insure a car and/or drive. Something along those lines but its not like its a hand out. They still have to pay all the fees and get a vehicle.

There is no medical insurance, no benefits, no food stamps nothing. If you have US kids, thats different. Like you say, those kids grow up and do make up for their parent's hard work. Still its dangerous to sell this untrue idea. I'd like to see that info though, would like to see whats it about.

Regarding the OP, Canadian's should relax. If anything, US undocumented immigrants will just remain in the shadows. You think with all their family here they will up and go to another place, so far away from home? (US soil now)

Honestly some posts sound a little xenophobic. "We dont want you k thanks", really? Sure all countries have laws and immigrants arent stupid, they know. You think their trek some central/south/wherever part to the US was an easy choice? Crossing a boarding is no easy park as it sounds.

My bet is immigrants will just stay put. I mean we all hate Trump but there is nothing that you can really except keep trying to earn a living and live as far away from getting attention to yourself and family.

Do only ones moving might be US citizens but even then, its unlikely.

 

[Sakura]

So, using your rationale for the US, you're okay with the Trump wall then?

EDIT: Actually there are way too many posts to quote, but lots of Canadians here are making excuses for not taking in illegal immigrants. They should all be for the Trump wall. Or is it a "do what I say, not what I do" kind of deal?

The wall is dumb because it is a waste of money and will never happen. The idea of preventing illegal immigrants from coming in is something I am OK with, if that's what you are asking. Not wanting illegal immigrants isn't really a strange stance, and is the stance of most countries.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

I mean that's fine, Canada obviously can. It's just that I've heard so much about how accepting and wanted they were there. I guess that wears out quick.

Canada is more like the US than they would like you to believe. Except for having bagged milk and being more overall left leaning as a country, we are all pretty much cut from the same cloth. Very similar cultures and Toronto citizens have more in common with New Yorkers than they do Albertans, for example.

The wall is dumb because it is a waste of money and will never happen. The idea of preventing illegal immigrants from coming in is something I am OK with, if that's what you are asking. Not wanting illegal immigrants isn't really a strange stance, and is the stance of most countries.

So you are okay with the Trump administration deporting the current illegal immigrants in the country, including Dreamers and DACA recipients?

 

[Darknight]

The wall is dumb because it is a waste of money and will never happen. The idea of preventing illegal immigrants from coming in is something I am OK with, if that's what you are asking. Not wanting illegal immigrants isn't really a strange stance, and is the stance of most countries.

While its ok, its good to always remember how things started in your country. I believe immigrants also were part of Canada's history. To completely shut your doors to immigrants is very weird for the US and Canada to do. Whether legal or not, immigrants will always be a net positive. (based on the US anyways) Sadly they are always attacked or used as a scapegoat because they are an easy group to demonize. Look at DACA individuals, nothing but upstanding citizens (not literal obviously) from immigrant parents. You cannot argue against us that easily.

 

[Gaius Cassius]

"Roosevelt and our government's stance has not changed. We continue to take in refugees year over year, but there is a difference between that and people trying to leave Germany because of a situation they brought upon themselves."

Give me a fucking break. A quarter of the country (almost entirely white) voting for Trump does not somehow justify human rights abuses and violence towards everyone else in the country.

Not yet. Did you not just see the crazy fuck that won the Republican primary just the other day in Alabama? You seriously don't think we're that fucking far off?

And just because you seemed to be wanting to make a Hitler comparison, you do realize alot of people, Jews in particular, fled Germany as soon as Hitler took the chancellory in 1935, before the violence and genocidal acts took place?

 

[Sakura]

While its ok, its good to always remember how things started in your country. I believe immigrants also were part of Canada's history. To completely shut your doors to immigrants is very weird for the US and Canada to do. Whether legal or not, immigrants will always be a net positive. (based on the US anyways)

Completely shut our doors to immigrants?
"In 2011, Canada had a foreign-born population of about 6,775,800 people. They represented 20.6% of the total population, the highest proportion among the G8 countries."
From the 2011 census.
We are hardly shutting our doors to immigrants, and we in fact let lots of immigrants in. The point is, we have a process. If you want to come in, follow it. If you don't want to follow the process, then don't be surprised when you aren't let in, or get deported.

 

[killer rin]

As a Canadian in Ontario, why would I be in favor of letting in as many people as possible? I prefer to have free space, not to mention the benefits of less pollution and a chance for wildlife to thrive. It's what I find least appealing in most other countries and cities. We should be pushing to maintain a healthy sustainable population not looking to use every possible inch.

Because we have too few people for our total landmass. Mix that with our ever shrinking population growth rates which puts us on a similar path as Japan. Immigration being the only thing keeping us somewhat stable and slowing increasing.

We have too few people spread across massive swaths of land. Infrastructure costs per person are absolutely insane because they are spread out over fewer people. People in our Rural areas in general question why Cities seem to have the best infrastructure and its because the cities are the only place with reasonable enough population densities to actually support the services.

We can't justify putting in High Speed Rail because the main argument is that we don't have the population density to support it over the long distances. So we can't easily connect all of our municipalities and make it affordable to actually travel our large beautiful country. Air Travel is also expensive because they don't have the consumer base to support being able to do rapid flights to all of our cities meaning outside a few routes to our most major cities everything else is a money loser and is going to be expensive.

Healthcare is more expensive because we need at least one doctor for every municipality, even the ones with only 1000 people. When we get around to eventually covering Pharmacare, we also wont be able to take advantage of the negotiating power that say 100m would be able to provide meaning drugs will remain expensive as hell. This made worse by the fact that each province is going to want to negotiate alone and cut the 36m negotiating power down to 1-10m each.

Boomers are already beginning to put massive strain on our Social Programs because we don't have enough young people inputting taxation into the system to pay for them. At current levels; Taxes will either have to go up or Boomer support is going to have to go down.

As for land, you can easily fit the entirety of Canada into the GTHA with everybody having a sizable chunk of land, so the part about "Not having free space" is entirely false. Same for pollution because Ontario operates entirely on clean energy (with the exception of the most remote of the remote areas in the far north). The main issue is cars, but with the population density and increase in tax base we would be able to afford massively beefing up mass transit which tends to use clean energy. Basically, its a massive country that we barely use outside of little pockets of civilization.

Thats not to say we should just shove everybody in Southern Ontario because like I mentioned in my earlier post, it is where our best farmland is. But the Sparsely populated Canadian Shield is fair game as for the municipalities within it. Not to mention literally everywhere else in the country because Canada isn't just Ontario alone and every area needs more people. Especially Atlantic Canada

I can go on and on. We simply need more people in this country

 

[Darknight]

Completely shut our doors to immigrants?
"In 2011, Canada had a foreign-born population of about 6,775,800 people. They represented 20.6% of the total population, the highest proportion among the G8 countries."
From the 2011 census.
We are hardly shutting our doors to immigrants, and we in fact let lots of immigrants in. The point is, we have a process. If you want to come in, follow it. If you don't want to follow the process, then don't be surprised when you aren't let in, or get deported.

I said it would be weird to do.

Any like I mentioned, Immigrants arent stupid. They KNOW the risks. If they immigrated to the US from somewhere else, do you know think they know the hardship that was to do? So that is something that will make them think hard. Most US immigrants have their families here and are unlikely to leave everything behind even with Trump.

I'd say Canadians are OK. There wont be a massive immigrant march any time soon.

 

[Crazymoogle]

So, using your rationale for the US, you're okay with the Trump wall then?

So I post something about the complexities of letting people in and you take that as "Trump Wall"? Bullshit. These aren't excuses, its legitimate challenges that we face today, which is why I mentioned the Olympic Stadium thing. That's a case where Canada was legitimately trying to help these people out, and their services were so strapped that all we could do was hide them in a sports arena.

I'm all for helping as much as we can, but we can only move at the speed of our public services. THIS is why living is an issue, THIS is why jobs are an issue. OF COURSE we can as a country build the houses, provide the services, let them in. But it costs time and money, and as a nation we have to come together to fund it.

Because the reality of immigration is not a plane ticket and a goodbye.

Eh, this argument on Jobs has always been a shaky argument. Right now we don't have a need for 65million available jobs, so we haven't bothered to make them. If more people come in, that's more people paying into the economy and more jobs that will be needed and created to serve those people. It also ignores immigrants starting their own businesses or becoming self-employed.

You have a point when it comes to housing, in fact it's the most difficult, legitimate problem that would come of rapidly increasing the population.

As for Inhabitable Land, that is a throwup topic. At our current technological level, we can build houses anywhere. We could build a city on a swamp if we wanted to, put one in the far north or in the middle of the hudson bay or great lakes. Thats not a problem. The main issue is that our best farmland is in Southern Ontario. But even then, we dont use 100% of the best farmland area. There is a ton of locations that are perfect for farmland in Southern Ontario which are still completely forested. Locations that would be prime land for farming if only we had the economical or logistical need to use it. Thats before you even get into the fact that push comes to shove, Greenhouses are perfectly valid forms of agriculture and we could chuck those in Alert Nunavut for all they cared.

Come on, it's not as simple as that. Yes, we could build houses anywhere. The jobs could eventually come. But these aren't simple A+B topics. Build that house "anywhere" and it has no water. No services. No clinic. We have towns and villages all over the place dying, right now, because they have either have no local industry or no schools/doctors to sustain it. We could build a migrant town right now, in the middle of uninhabited Manitoba, and without a school, doctor, plumbing, electricity, highways - they're screwed.

So the population flocks to where the support is.

From a grandscale, 100m person argument, yes, I question whether we have enough to support that, but it's not a "square meters" question, but a "cost in services" one. Can our country withstand the blow of that many people, economically, ecologically, structurally? Probably not without a hard look at the problems we have now.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

So I post something about the complexities of letting people in and you take that as "Trump Wall"? Bullshit. These aren't f'ing excuses, its legitimate challenges that we face today, which is why I mentioned the Olympic Stadium thing. That's a case where Canada was legitimately trying to help these people out, and their services were so strapped that all we could do was hide them in a sports arena.

I'm all for helping as much as we can, but we can only move at the speed of our public services. THIS is why living is an issue, THIS is why jobs are an issue. OF COURSE we can as a country build the houses, provide the services, let them in. But it costs time and money, and as a nation we have to come together to fund it.

Because the reality of immigration is not a plane ticket and a goodbye.

Complexities of letting people in, only being able to move at the speed of "our public services", living issues, job issues, time and money, and a "one way plane ticket and not a goodbye" are not exclusive to one country. If you believe that to be the case for one country, you must concede that to be true for other countries as well, including the US. If you are willing to not accept illegal immigrants in your country due to those complexities and challenges, and you need a proper system in place before taking them in, then you must concede that is probably true for other countries as well.

And based on what you said, you are for controlled immigration. The "Trump wall" is for controlled immigration, hence why you must be for it, if you are to be consistent.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Complexities of letting people in, only being able to move at the speed of "our public services", living issues, job issues, time and money, and a "one way plane ticket and not a goodbye" are not exclusive to one country. If you believe that to be the case for one country, you must concede that to be true for other countries as well, including the US. If you are willing to not accept illegal immigrants in your country due to those complexities and challenges, and you need a proper system in place before taking them in, then you must concede that is probably true for other countries as well.

This thread is about Canada. WTF are you arguing for? I didn't even say we were unwilling to accept illegal immigrants. I just pointed out the challenges of just letting everyone in, or specifically as killer rin suggested, moving to a massive immigration economy.

And based on what you said, you are for controlled immigration. The "Trump wall" is for controlled immigration, hence why you must be for it, if you are to be consistent.

You just equated "any sort of controlled immigration" to must favor the Trump Wall. So by those same terms you believe every 1st world country today is in favor of it.

 

[killer rin]

Come on, it's not as simple as that. Yes, we could build houses anywhere. The jobs could eventually come. But these aren't simple A+B topics. Build that house "anywhere" and it has no water. No services. No clinic. We have towns and villages all over the place dying, right now, because they have either have no local industry or no schools/doctors to sustain it. We could build a migrant town right now, in the middle of uninhabited Manitoba, and without a school, doctor, plumbing, electricity, highways - they're screwed.

So the population flocks to where the support is.

From a grandscale, 100m person argument, yes, I question whether we have enough to support that, but it's not a "square meters" question, but a "cost in services" one. Can our country withstand the blow of that many people, economically, ecologically, structurally? Probably not without a hard look at the problems we have now.

Just to preface. Yes we aren't going to just straight up build new cities in the middle of nowhere. The Towns and Municipalities we have will basically remain static until the end of time going forward. We'll lose a couple to migration to other cities, but in general nothing new is going to pop up. That said, if we were going to build a new city, basic utilities would almost definitely be a part of the building phase. Electricity, Plumbing and Water would be taken care of. Roads would be built in the city because they would have to be and chances are it would be built close to existing highways or one would be built to it. The main issues would be services and businesses.

But enough of that thought exercise. The only reason I brought up building new cities was basically to show that it could be done if we really wanted to support a population of 100m. Even if the process of building new cities is completely impractical to just expanding existing cities. Hence why I bring up expanding places like Windsor, London, Sault St Marie, pushing Ottawa further west into the Canadian Shield where there is little to no farmland to disrupt. In addition, people for some reason like to say that Canada is large and then say in the same breath that adding more people would completely destroy the environment or make everything super cramped. It just makes no sense.

And I agree that 100m overnight would be completely impractical unless we wanted to throw the entire country into chaos overnight. But aiming to double the population of existing cities over a 20-40 year period with enough time to build everything out? Thats more feasible and would put us at 70m

 

[Crazymoogle]

That said, if we were going to build a new city, basic utilities would almost definitely be a part of the building phase. Electricity, Plumbing and Water would be taken care of. Roads would be built in the city because they would have to be and chances are it would be built close to existing highways or one would be built to it. The main issues would be services and businesses.

I would agree, except in that they are rarely accounted for, and we already have strong institutional trouble with the plumbing part of the equation as it is with our native communities. Urban planning isn't the problem there so much as the conflict between planning and politics. Anyway, it's just a high thought exercise as you said, because the other part of support is helping those people to survive in Canada, which needs the resources of an existing location.

In addition, people for some reason like to say that Canada is large and then say in the same breath that adding more people would completely destroy the environment or make everything super cramped. It just makes no sense.

To generalize a bit, you're right, but it doesn't necessarily wave off the ecological concerns. Liquidating the land (and water supply) necessary requires a government perhaps beyond our current system. We would, to some extent, seize land from landowners, come into conflict with ecological and parks groups, etc. It's doable but not with the current level of political capital. You might need a Singapore or nation along those lines where they have much stronger control over budget and services without being flung into a crisis of government.

And I agree that 100m overnight would be completely impractical unless we wanted to throw the entire country into chaos overnight. But aiming to double the population of existing cities over a 20-40 year period with enough time to build everything out? Thats more feasible and would put us at 70m

More feasible, yes. But since we can't mandate where our citizens live in the long term, it still feels like a tremendously difficult problem. That's what, a 5x increase in immigration per year? 10x? I'm pretty sure the provincial governments would crap themselves trying to budget out the service cost increase, particularly in the main cities where you would see a lot of short term population impact until secondary locations have supportable industries.

That's why things like guaranteed income really need to be looked at, without proper support we would look more like "District 9"...

 

[Kaleinc]

Complexities of letting people in, only being able to move at the speed of "our public services", living issues, job issues, time and money, and a "one way plane ticket and not a goodbye" are not exclusive to one country. If you believe that to be the case for one country, you must concede that to be true for other countries as well, including the US. If you are willing to not accept illegal immigrants in your country due to those complexities and challenges, and you need a proper system in place before taking them in, then you must concede that is probably true for other countries as well.

And based on what you said, you are for controlled immigration. The "Trump wall" is for controlled immigration, hence why you must be for it, if you are to be consistent.

Canada will take in 100,000 illegal immigrants for every illegal immigrant/homeless person you give shelter to in your house.

 

[killer rin]

More feasible, yes. But since we can't mandate where our citizens live in the long term, it still feels like a tremendously difficult problem. That's what, a 5x increase in immigration per year? 10x? I'm pretty sure the provincial governments would crap themselves trying to budget out the service cost increase, particularly in the main cities where you would see a lot of short term population impact until secondary locations have supportable industries.

That's why things like guaranteed income really need to be looked at, without proper support we would look more like "District 9"...

True. It is a drastic increase, but I do think we need to have a plan to eventually get there. Even if its set into the far future. 60-100 years out. We should have a plan to hitting the 100m mark. Especially since as time goes on, technology is going to improve and the world at large is going to become a better place. Eventually Developing nations will become developed and at that point, how do we get people to come to Canada? Given our population growth rate and the trend for developed nations we'll just start imploding and problems caused by low population density will become even worse.

 

[KonradLaw]

True. It is a drastic increase, but I do think we need to have a plan to eventually get there. Even if its set into the far future. 60-100 years out. We should have a plan to hitting the 100m mark. Especially since as time goes on, technology is going to improve and the world at large is going to become a better place. Eventually Developing nations will become developed and at that point, how do we get people to come to Canada? Given our population growth rate and the trend for developed nations we'll just start imploding and problems caused by low population density will become even worse.

Doesn't automation make such concerns completely meaningless though? In 60-100 years you will have incredibly hard time to find enough work for even the current population levels.

 

[Conor_Fool]

Canada will take in 100,000 illegal immigrants for every illegal immigrant/homeless person you give shelter to in your house.

Don't let the radicals/people who understand nothing outside of US politics mess with you. Canada GAF has gone out of their way to engage in peaceful conversation/argument and they continue to get attacked. On a subject as heated as this, I'm afraid there is little to no room for rational discourse on this site

Case in point - the horrible and loaded name of the freakin thread

 

[Pikma]

I don't really understand why we should let Dreamers in. I understand that they would be deported to countries they were never raised in... but they were never raised in Canada either.
If you are a Dreamer from Mexico you likely have more family in Mexico than in Canada, and sure you can speak English, but I have a hard time believing that people raised by parents who speak Spanish can't speak a lick of Spanish themselves. We shouldn't take them in just because they'd rather live in Canada than Mexico, that's not really how it works.
If they are from a war torn country, etc then we have a process for that and can take them in as refugees, but if that isn't the case, then I don't see why we should be taking them in.

The population in 2016 was 35 million. The population in 1996, when you were age 12 or so, was 28.8 million. That means it increased more than 6 million since you were 10, not sure where you are getting 3 million from.
I don't see how you can call that stagnant. That's an increase of more than 20 percent. That increase alone in 20 or so years, is more than the entire population of countries like Ireland or Norway.

This rationale is so broken I don't even know where to begin

 

[brau]

I don't really understand why we should let Dreamers in. I understand that they would be deported to countries they were never raised in... but they were never raised in Canada either.
If you are a Dreamer from Mexico you likely have more family in Mexico than in Canada, and sure you can speak English, but I have a hard time believing that people raised by parents who speak Spanish can't speak a lick of Spanish themselves. We shouldn't take them in just because they'd rather live in Canada than Mexico, that's not really how it works.
If they are from a war torn country, etc then we have a process for that and can take them in as refugees, but if that isn't the case, then I don't see why we should be taking them in.

I am very interested to know where you get your information. How do you know that people raised in the USA as a citizen should speak both languages? How do you know that they have more family in Mexico? What do you know about the process of becoming an immigrant in another country? Have you looked at some of the testimonials of people facing deportation and each list the fears that they have and why? are you informed on the options that they have? Do you know what kind of opportunities these people facing deportation would have in Mexico compared to Canada? Do you know why they would rather move to Canada rather than Mexico? Do you know that not all dreamers are from Mexico but from other countries as well?

You're assuming a lot here, and in the process, you're making an ass out of yourself. These people are individuals, all with different circumstances, which is what makes the process of immigration such a convoluted and delicate process. EVERYONE that comes for whatever reason has different backdrops or circumstances.

Now, I am not saying that Canada should welcome everyone before they go through their proper process. Canada and you as a Canadian have every right to have your interest come first. I am firmly opposed to illegal immigration. BUT! really do understand that the process in the USA for becoming an immigrant is very hard, lots of loops and you face a lot of discrimination, loops, and hardships that are hard to understand until you either look them up or go through them. Whats worse, some people are stuck in between because of different situations that give people fewer options and just face deportation.

I am an immigrant. I left Mexico when I was 19 to study in the USA. I did the proper paperwork, I've become a Permanent Resident and just this year migrated to Finland. You bet your ass that there are hardships that come with immigration and trust me when I say that I know what the fuck I'm talking about because I made a point to inform and learn about the procedures and my rights. Didn't make it any easier but it gave me options. Canada saying that it gives options to people that are facing deportation like DACA can be a glimmer of hope for people that don't have that many options, and I believe that this is what it's all about. Tell people that are facing very specific situations will have a channel of dialogue to migrate and how they need to fulfill certain requirements. Obviously, this comes from the people first, and posts like yours only make me think that some people are not very tolerant or compassionate to help when people are in need. Or just don't understand it.

Now, as far as the statement from Canada goes I don't see any issues with it. They are reminding people that are facing deportation in the USA that Canada will not be granting residency based solely on that. They can grant asylum and they list what constitutes being a refugee. They do encourage people to go through the proper process or at least make it known that that's how you would be able to go through it. Think of it as when a big company lays off tons of people because the game just bombed. IF a few other companies just tweet or make a statement to them saying 'hey! we are hiring here, feel free to apply' that makes you feel a lot better, even when they are not saying you have a job here, but feel free to apply because we welcome you and want to support you and give you options.

INFORM YOURSELF and please do not make assumptions on topics that are so delicate because we are talking about individuals here whos lives are about to be turned upside down. Be a little more sensitive and stop throwing around all of this garbage about what would be better for them with your assumptions.

This rationale is so broken I don't even know where to begin

I got you fam. Hold my beer. Read my post.

 

[hodgy100]

It's just not that bad in the US people being kicked out if the us aren't asylum seekers. If their original country of origin is war torn or dangerous or they face persecution in their home country then they would be able to apply for asylum.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I mean this statement seems like it just says the equivalent of "we will enforce our immigration laws", which... yeah of couse we will.

 

[brau]

I mean this statement seems like it just says the equivalent of "we will enforce our immigration laws", which... yeah of couse we will.

That's what I got out of it, and it's more than fair.

 

[Ishan]

So, using your rationale for the US, you're okay with the Trump wall then?

EDIT: I might have missed some other posts to quote. A lot of Canadians here are making excuses for not taking in illegal immigrants. They should all be for the Trump wall. Or is it a "do what I say, not what I do" kind of deal?

This is ridiculous . Almost the entire us congress / senate is against illegal immigration . They are against the wall cause it's a waste of money and a useless symbol . You're not going to convince the vast majority of ppl in the us / Canada / "insert random country" that illegal immigration is correct . What you will convince them of is how we can reform handle crisises better ....


I've seen this more and more on gaf ppl making an equivalence between against the wall and for illegal immigration . Not the same thing

 

[Sakura]

I am very interested to know where you get your information. How do you know that people raised in the USA as a citizen should speak both languages? How do you know that they have more family in Mexico? What do you know about the process of becoming an immigrant in another country? Have you looked at some of the testimonials of people facing deportation and each list the fears that they have and why? are you informed on the options that they have? Do you know what kind of opportunities these people facing deportation would have in Mexico compared to Canada? Do you know why they would rather move to Canada rather than Mexico? Do you know that not all dreamers are from Mexico but from other countries as well?

You're assuming a lot here, and in the process, you're making an ass out of yourself. These people are individuals, all with different circumstances, which is what makes the process of immigration such a convoluted and delicate process. EVERYONE that comes for whatever reason has different backdrops or circumstances.

Now, I am not saying that Canada should welcome everyone before they go through their proper process. Canada and you as a Canadian have every right to have your interest come first. I am firmly opposed to illegal immigration. BUT! really do understand that the process in the USA for becoming an immigrant is very hard, lots of loops and you face a lot of discrimination, loops, and hardships that are hard to understand until you either look them up or go through them. Whats worse, some people are stuck in between because of different situations that give people fewer options and just face deportation.

I am an immigrant. I left Mexico when I was 19 to study in the USA. I did the proper paperwork, I've become a Permanent Resident and just this year migrated to Finland. You bet your ass that there are hardships that come with immigration and trust me when I say that I know what the fuck I'm talking about because I made a point to inform and learn about the procedures and my rights. Didn't make it any easier but it gave me options. Canada saying that it gives options to people that are facing deportation like DACA can be a glimmer of hope for people that don't have that many options, and I believe that this is what it's all about. Tell people that are facing very specific situations will have a channel of dialogue to migrate and how they need to fulfill certain requirements. Obviously, this comes from the people first, and posts like yours only make me think that some people are not very tolerant or compassionate to help when people are in need. Or just don't understand it.

Now, as far as the statement from Canada goes I don't see any issues with it. They are reminding people that are facing deportation in the USA that Canada will not be granting residency based solely on that. They can grant asylum and they list what constitutes being a refugee. They do encourage people to go through the proper process or at least make it known that that's how you would be able to go through it. Think of it as when a big company lays off tons of people because the game just bombed. IF a few other companies just tweet or make a statement to them saying 'hey! we are hiring here, feel free to apply' that makes you feel a lot better, even when they are not saying you have a job here, but feel free to apply because we welcome you and want to support you and give you options.

INFORM YOURSELF and please do not make assumptions on topics that are so delicate because we are talking about individuals here whos lives are about to be turned upside down. Be a little more sensitive and stop throwing around all of this garbage about what would be better for them with your assumptions.

You're putting words in my mouth.
I never said everybody has more family in Mexico, or that everyone is fluent in Spanish. I said most people likely have more family in Mexico than Canada, and people raised by parents who speak Spanish probably speak some Spanish themselves. I don't think these are outrageous beliefs. I am not claiming everyone 100%.
And opportunities in Mexico versus Canada, preferring to move to Canada over Mexico... come on man. I'm sure everybody not in a first world country would have more opportunities in Canada than where they live, and many would probably prefer to live in Canada. That's not the point. My point is that you shouldn't be able to come to Canada illegally just because you would rather live there, or because there might be more opportunities there.
Some people make the argument that people raised in the US don't know life outside the US. They don't have a house to live, a job, etc outside the US, and they may face deportation. But they weren't raised in Canada either. They don't have a home etc in Canada either. So I don't see why we should let them in Canada, just because they might prefer it over the country they are being deported to.

I specifically said we can take in people as refugees who fall under that. But you aren't a refugee just because you don't want to be deported to Mexico, and we won't and shouldn't take in those people. It is unfortunate for sure. But we are going to take in people who actually are refugees. If you are a Dreamer and the country you would be deported to, or the circumstances you'd face there, allow you to fall under refugee status then for sure, try to come in.

And don't lecture me on the difficulties on immigration, I have left my country as well and currently do not live in Canada.

 

[lupinko]

Canada is more like the US than they would like you to believe. Except for having bagged milk and being more overall left leaning as a country, we are all pretty much cut from the same cloth. Very similar cultures and Toronto citizens have more in common with New Yorkers than they do Albertans, for example.



So you are okay with the Trump administration deporting the current illegal immigrants in the country, including Dreamers and DACA recipients?

Dunno why you keep bringing up bagged milk, that's not a thing out west.

 

[forms]

Canada needs more immigrants.

I've always been bothered by how low our population is. Imagine if we had 100 million people, we could probably surpass Japan.

I am over 40 and want to move from Sweden to Canada. Hook me up with a decent IT company and my family will tip the scale.

No? Oh, dammit.

 

[Impeccable]

Go figure, there is a process.

 

[Mortimer Brewster]

As a Canadian in Ontario, why would I be in favor of letting in as many people as possible? I prefer to have free space, not to mention the benefits of less pollution and a chance for wildlife to thrive. It's what I find least appealing in most other countries and cities. We should be pushing to maintain a healthy sustainable population not looking to use every possible inch.

My sentiments exactly. I choose to live in South Western Ontario(Windsor/Sarnia/London) because it has a lower population, lots of arable land, beautiful forests and wildlife in addition to the creature comforts of moderately populated urban centres. The last thing we would want is more metropolis. You want more, just keeping building on top of yourself in Toronto, you seem to it.

 

[Fliesen]

Agreed. Illegal immigrants are typically very hard working people. Unfortunately, due to their inability to get good paying jobs legally, they typically don't make much money and end up being net recipients of government aid, rather than a boon to the economy at large.

how would a non documented (i.e. illegal) immigrant be eligible to receive government aid?
legitimately asking.

I was always assuming that illegal immigrants had to work to put food on their tables, since they have no access to any kind of government aid, since - in the eyes of the government - they're not really here.

 

[EMT0]

how would a non documented (i.e. illegal) immigrant be eligible to receive government aid?
legitimately asking.

I was always assuming that illegal immigrants had to work to put food on their tables, since they have no access to any kind of government aid, since - in the eyes of the government - they're not really here.

Ding ding ding, people just make shit up

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

This thread is about Canada. WTF are you arguing for? I didn't even say we were unwilling to accept illegal immigrants. I just pointed out the challenges of just letting everyone in, or specifically as killer rin suggested, moving to a massive immigration economy.



You just equated "any sort of controlled immigration" to must favor the Trump Wall. So by those same terms you believe every 1st world country today is in favor of it.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in the posts I quoted.

Canada will take in 100,000 illegal immigrants for every illegal immigrant/homeless person you give shelter to in your house.

The point must have went over your head. Matter of fact, it did.

Dunno why you keep bringing up bagged milk, that's not a thing out west.

I haven't seen bagged milk anywhere else in the world. Of course, I haven't visited every single country.

 

[Barzul]

Agreed. Illegal immigrants are typically very hard working people. Unfortunately, due to their inability to get good paying jobs legally, they typically don't make much money and end up being net recipients of government aid, rather than a boon to the economy at large.

Illegal immigrants cannot receive government aid in the United States. I’m a legal immigrant and I can’t even receive any sort of government benefits, not that I’d want to. The point you’re making is completely false and if you’re going to insist upon it then you need to back it up with evidence.

 

[llien]

"Just accept everyone" is not realistic at all, even if Canada was much bigger.
Strictly speaking it means one could justify Trump's stance, i.e. there is nothing wrong with stopping illegal (emphasis) immigrants from entering your country.

Yet, the real issue with Trump was the generic anti-immigrant sentiment, he was saying "illegal immigrants", but meant (I think, and I think most got the same impression) immigrants in general.

 

[Silent Chief]

We just don't have the infrastructure to support it. There isn't another 65 million jobs waiting, or 65 million houses, and our actual inhabitable land compared to total land is actually really small.

Complete nonsense. When I drive 7 hours to go visit my mum, i can go half an hour without seeing a house.

 

[Pedrito]

The main reason why Canada has mostly escaped the anti-immigration hysteria that we're seeing elsewhere in the West is that, while quite massive per capita, immigration has been tightly controlled. If things get out of control, you can bet anti-immigration views will become much more mainstream and the right will rise just like anywhere else. We have already seen that during the summer.

 

[the1npc]

A lot of uninformed americans here. We take in many immigrants, we just want people to go through legal channels.

 

[Madness]

A lot of uninformed americans here. We take in many immigrants, we just want people to go through legal channels.

Yep. They just are ashamed they are the reason FOR these immigrants coming over. Canadian immigration works because it is inclusive, comprehensive, and often skills or family based. We're not taking in 2 miilion randoms just fleeing the US because they are scared of Trump. What skills do they have? What languages do they speak? What jobs can they do? Do they have family here? Etc. Canada is also rigorous for deportation. We deport immigrants who commit serious crimes lile felony violent assault,vehicular homicide, rape and sexual assault etc.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Canada keeps making smart decisions

 

[slit]

Dreamers aside (due to real dangers of being deported to a country they were never raised in), economic migrants have to go through the immigration process. The only people I would have no issue trying to cross our borders are people fleeing war or oppression. We didn't put out a neon sign and declare to the world, come hither all who want to come.

Again, you're arguing legality when I was not and anyway you could argue these immigrants are fleeing oppression.

A lot of uninformed americans here. We take in many immigrants, we just want people to go through legal channels.

So why is it I hear the rest of the world say how horrible America is when Americans make the same argument? It just seems very hypocritical to me. Not saying you specifically but just in general.

 

[JWiLL]

Canada needs more immigrants.

I've always been bothered by how low our population is. Imagine if we had 100 million people, we could probably surpass Japan.

I can't tell if this post is serious. We don't have anything close to the right sort of infrastructure to support this.

Immigrants don't want to live in small-town Canada, either. There's no opportunity there.

You wouldn't be "bothered" by our low population number if you lived in Toronto. This city surely doesn't need more people, but you can bet that's where many will end up when they come here.

 

[Deleted member 284]

I can't tell if this post is serious. We don't have anything close to the right sort of infrastructure to support this.

Immigrants don't want to live in small-town Canada, either. There's no opportunity there.

You wouldn't be "bothered" by our low population number if you lived in Toronto. This city surely doesn't need more people, but you can bet that's where many will end up when they come here.

I don’t agree with this statement. I believe GTA can support an increase in population IF NIMBYs get out of the way.

 

[Machado]

Canada needs more immigrants.

hmmmm...

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

A lot of uninformed americans here. We take in many immigrants, we just want people to go through legal channels.

Yep. They just are ashamed they are the reason FOR these immigrants coming over. Canadian immigration works because it is inclusive, comprehensive, and often skills or family based. We're not taking in 2 miilion randoms just fleeing the US because they are scared of Trump. What skills do they have? What languages do they speak? What jobs can they do? Do they have family here? Etc. Canada is also rigorous for deportation. We deport immigrants who commit serious crimes lile felony violent assault,vehicular homicide, rape and sexual assault etc.

So Americans wanting the same thing and/or the current laws that are in place being enforced is bad and/or being uninformed or ashamed? I'm confused.

So why is it I hear the rest of the world say how horrible America is when Americans make the same argument? It just seems very hypocritical to me. Not saying you specifically but just in general.

This guy gets it.

 

[Chococat]

So why is it I hear the rest of the world say how horrible America is when Americans make the same argument? It just seems very hypocritical to me. Not saying you specifically but just in general.

Wars. American War on Drugs, America Middle Eastern Wars, and America history of installing an supporting dictators a a major cause of refugees around the world. If we create most of the refugees for "freedom" should we not take in the people who are at high risk of dying because of our actions? America is rightfully condemned for creating the refugee crisis around the would, them pawning off immigration to the rest of the world.

Labor. America benefits from the slave like labor that comes across the Mexican border. We, both business and consumers, want to continue to pay them as dirt cheap as possible, make sure they don't get any benefits, and kept them a political scapegoats for our elections. The way we abuse undocumented workers to support the American way of life is morally wrong. You want people to stop crossing the boarder? Jail the business owners who hire undocumented workers. Raise wage and give benefits so Americans will work those jobs.

Immigration and refugee laws are a patchwork political platform points, not a comprehensive set of rules needed to keep up with demand. The whole system needs an overhaul from top to bottom, not just catchy, brained dead ideas like "build the wall".

 

[KonradLaw]

So why is it I hear the rest of the world say how horrible America is when Americans make the same argument? It just seems very hypocritical to me. Not saying you specifically but just in general.

I think it's mostly Americans who says this. The rest of the world is very puzzled when so many americans act like protecting your own borders is somehow horrible.

 

[slit]

Wars. American War on Drugs, America Middle Eastern Wars, and America history of installing an supporting dictators a a major cause of refugees around the world. If we create most of the refugees for "freedom" should we not take in the people who are at high risk of dying because of our actions? America is rightfully condemned for creating the refugee crisis around the would, them pawning off immigration to the rest of the world.

Which other western powers partake in and support and you can argue some have an even more notorious history in that area so still hypocritical.

Labor. America benefits from the slave like labor that comes across the Mexican border. We, both business and consumers, want to continue to pay them as dirt cheap as possible, make sure they don't get any benefits, and kept them a political scapegoats for our elections. The way we abuse undocumented workers to support the American way of life is morally wrong. You want people to stop crossing the boarder? Jail the business owners who hire undocumented workers. Raise wage and give benefits so Americans will work those jobs.

Which European powers also take advantage of. They are just not from Mexico so still hypocritical.

Immigration and refugee laws are a patchwork political platform points, not a comprehensive set of rules needed to keep up with demand. The whole system needs an overhaul from top to bottom, not just catchy, brained dead ideas like "build the wall".

I agree with that.

 

[JWiLL]

I don’t agree with this statement. I believe GTA can support an increase in population IF NIMBYs get out of the way.

The amount of congestion in this city is insane. How much more do you want?