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[gutter_trash]

weather or not Tom is Angry or Happy, he does have bad posture always hunching his left shoulder higher than his right

 

[lupinko]

Isn't this basically the opposite of C-51 which is supported by the current Liberals?

Parts of C-51 have their foundations in the anti-terrorism act passed by Chretien and Martin post 9/11.

The parts that make sense.

Not the stupid parts like how if you question Canada's economic plans you are labeled a terrorist.

Franke James comes to mind.

http://www.frankejames.com

All she asked was to make oil companies be fully responsible and accountable in the event of a spill.

Harper had her on a no fly list and her visa restricted.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Well I expect Mulcair to rip into trudeau and possibly harper in the final debate.

It's French-only, though, and it's not being broadcast on the major networks outside Quebec, so I can't imagine its impact will be very broad even if he does.

And going by the polls he's losing his voters to the Conservatives and the Bloc -- going after Trudeau doesn't help him all that much in terms of getting them back.

For some reason, I feel like Mulcair is a temporary leader. I don't feel like he fits the NDP.

He won on the promise of being the guy who could get them into government. If he doesn't do that, you have to imagine there'd be some grumbling, at least. There have been surprising few anonymous slams against him -- if the Liberals were in the same position, I guarantee the papers would be full of "unnamed senior Liberal sources" -- but that could well change in a few weeks if they end up losing seats.

 

[dragonfart28]

I don't think they should get rid of Mulcair if the NDP do not have a plurality of seats. As long as they can stay above 20% support he should remain the leader.

 

[Ledhead]

Just a couple weeks away from the election, and I'm probably more unsure as to who to vote for (other than King Steve, fuck him) then I was at the start.

 

[gabbo]

pretty sure Mulcair is going for a Layton-esque demeanour because the NDP have identified that as a popular trait. It's sad really, but they just need a popular leader, and smiling all the time is presumably what they think is the best bet.

They need House of Parliament Tom to show up. That guy could lead people and take Harper to task.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

They need House of Parliament Tom to show up. That guy could lead people and take Harper to task.

The risk with that at this point is the Conservatives could run "Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde" attack ads. "Can you trust our country with such an inconsistent hothead?"

 

[gutter_trash]

The risk with that at this point is the Conservatives could run "Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde" attack ads. "Can you trust our country with such an inconsistent hothead?"

most Canadians don't pay attention to what candidates say in French, the TVA debate is also on a Friday night lol.

the TVA debate will have little impact to English Canada.

as for Justin, his base in Montreal are not nationalists.
So Mulcair going after Trudeau for being too hard on separatists only reinforces the Canadian Unity vote towards Trudeau in Montreal area ridings

 

[gabbo]

The risk with that at this point is the Conservatives could run "Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde" attack ads. "Can you trust our country with such an inconsistent hothead?"

If the NDP were smart, they'd address the short comings he's had with his public image thus far as part of the HoP Tom going out and getting it done.
Something like "I tried to play nice, but you can't stay out of the muck forever" or similar.

 

[dragonfart28]

I'm just disappointed that the big picture has been lost. The #1 main objective should have been to oust the Conservatives, and Canada is completely blowing it.

Wait a couple of weeks.

If things hold this way, we will see more strategic voting.

I'm in the NDP camp right now, but I will go Liberal if the riding is a close race and it's the only way to help get rid of Harper.

 

[eBay Huckster]

which ones specifically?

Alfonso Gagliano and André Ouellet in particular, and I'm inclined to add Paul Martin to the list considering the Commission, in practice, was a glorified purge of the civil service.

No Liberal MP was ever condemned of any wrong doing during the Gomery Commission

You mean the same Commission that was found, in Chrétien v. Canada, to be riddled with bias against Chrétien and Pelletier specifically? Pardon me if I don't take their conclusions as law.

 

[Azih]

Nothing in the world would shock me more than electoral reform. I've generally found Paul Wells rule of Canadian politics (the least exciting outcome will always happen) to be true.

But this isn't true. The rise of the reform, the rise of the Bloc, the decimation of the PCs, the merger of the right, three car crash Liberal leaders, the Orange Wave, none of these were by any fashion the 'least exciting outcomes'. Call your Liberal candidate. Tell them you want PR and when they try to fob you off with 'preferential ballot is great!' tell them preferential is an Australian type of system that wouldn't prevent someone like Harper from getting full control and only PR would prevent that and that's what we need. You can give Tony Abbott as an example.

Grassroots pressure has routinely changed the face of Canadian politics and most Liberals candidates are on the fence and can be pushed over onto the right side.

We are not in the US, we have lots of parties to chose from.

No we don't gutter. A lot of us live in safe ridings where we only have one choice (which is the same as having no choice at all). Some of us can only choose between Cons and Libs, some of us can only choose between Libs and NDP, some of us can only choose between Cons and NDP, some of us can only choose between Bloc and NPD, very very few of us can choose the Greens.

We do NOT have lots of parties to choose from and that's a horrible problem that we face as citizens and as voters.

It only takes a few minutes to find the Liberal's phone, call them and let the person who picks up the phone know that you live in the riding and tell them you want PR. Stuff their one talking point and at the very least shake them up a bit.

 

[ColonelSkills]

Just a couple weeks away from the election, and I'm probably more unsure as to who to vote for (other than King Steve, fuck him) then I was at the start.

If this is your goal, and strategic voting isn't something that bothers you conceptually, check https://www.votetogether.ca/ and find your riding.

 

[gutter_trash]

Alfonso Gagliano and André Ouellet in particular, and I'm inclined to add Paul Martin to the list considering the Commission, in practice, was a glorified purge of the civil service.


You mean the same Commission that was found, in Chrétien v. Canada, to be riddled with bias against Chrétien and Pelletier specifically? Pardon me if I don't take their conclusions as law.

Pelletier was smeared by the Olympian Bedard which later was found to be unsubstantiated. Bedard was married to weirdo who coached Bedard into trying smear Pelletier. Bedard was then embroiled into a antique painting scheme, her crediblity went out the window as a ''whistle blower''
------------------

Duceppe has a new attack line from the Nationlist-Seperatist front. Mulcair claims that he was at home during the ''Love In'' Pro Canada rally prior to the 95 Referendum to not offend nationalists but in an older interview and in his book, Mulcair claims to have participated in the Federalist Pro Canada Love in. Duceppe will dirge up that contradiction to get the nationalists back.

Mulcair played with fire courting the nationalists, now Duceppe is throwing it back at him.


Trudeau on the other hand never pretended to be anything other than a Liberal Federalist. Why go with the wishy washy Mulcair when Trudeau is the real deal.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Pelletier was smeared by the Olympian Bedard which later was found to be unsubstantiated. Bedard was married to weirdo who coached Bedard into trying smear Pelletier. Bedard was then embroiled into a antique painting scheme, her crediblity went out the window as a ''whistle blower''

Wasn't just Bedard whose credibility got fucked up - Gomery himself was found to have exhibited bias during the days of the Commission.

Why go with the wishy washy Mulcair when Trudeau is the real deal.

Because on literally everything but the status of Quebec, the LPC has a notable recent history of being wishy washy relative to its campaign promises. That might change depending on how this election plays out (particularly if it's somehow a Liberal minority propped up by the NDP), but I'd rather not give them the benefit of the doubt just yet.

 

[gutter_trash]

Wasn't just Bedard whose credibility got fucked up - Gomery himself was found to have exhibited bias during the days of the Commission.

Gomery is a Mulroney-ite. Those old PCers from the east still have a grudge against the Liberals

 

[Azih]

Also because Mulciar is good at turning soft nationalists into soft federalists which is really the only effective way to really sap and weakening the seperatist movement.

 

[gutter_trash]

Also because Mulciar is good at turning soft nationalists into soft federalists which is really the only effective way to really sap and weakening the seperatist movement.

lol, nationalists will never be federalists. Mulroney learned it the hard way, now Mulcair is getting a taste of nationalists wrath who are embracing Harper-Duceppe's identity politics.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Hmm. The bad news is, a non-Ekos pollster now has the Conservatives out in front. The good news is, it's Forum, so there's no telling how accurate the poll is.

Meanwhile, Nanos still has the Liberals & Conservatives bunched together (albeit with a 1.5 point lead today for the Conservatives), so someone is doing something differently.


The Star has an interesting story from Chantal Hebert about why the NDP is plummeting in Quebec:

Going in the campaign, the NDP leader’s Quebec trump card was the sense that he was best placed to beat the Stephen Harper. More so than any federal NDP initiative, it was the party’s victory in Alberta last spring that cemented Mulcair’s formidable pre-campaign lead in his home-province. Now the fact that the party is running third in the rest of Canada is sinking in.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Ah I was just about to post the same article.

NDP’s platform of limited appeal in Quebec: Hébert

MONTREAL—Less than a month ago, the NDP was poised to sweep Quebec for the second federal election in a row. Now, a repeat orange wave is indefinitely on hold and things could actually get worse for the New Democrats.

An Abacus poll published on Monday showed the NDP still leading the pack in Quebec but down seventeen points from a mid-September sounding. Other polls have reported a smaller drop but all concur on the trend. As the election gets nearer, Thomas Mulcair’s party is falling from grace in Quebec.

There is no doubt the controversy over whether Muslim women should be required to unveil their faces to take the oath of citizenship is acting as a catalyst for the drop in party fortunes.

An overwhelming majority of Quebecers support a niqab ban. The NDP opposes it.

But the New Democrat campaign had started to lose steam before the niqab appeared on the radar, for reasons more fundamental than the pent-up passions unleashed by a Conservative play on the identity front.

From a Quebec perspective the NDP’s platform is an underwhelming one.

With the provincial government’s cost-cutting crusade already taking a toll on its social programs, it is hard to think of a NDP commitment more likely to miss the mark with Quebec’s progressive voters than the come-hell-or-high-water determination to balance the federal books. If anything, many Quebecers are suffering from an overdose of government-imposed austerity.

The promise of a national universal child-care system has short legs in a province that has set up the most comprehensive program in the country on its own.

Mulcair’s call to open the Constitution to abolish the Senate is similarly of limited appeal.

For one, it pits the NDP leader against Quebec Premier Philippe Couillard. He believes the Senate should be reformed, not abolished. And then there is the matter of Quebec’s own longstanding constitutional agenda. Couillard insists that a round on the Senate would have to include it as well.

On that score, Mulcair did not help his cause when he told Radio-Canada two weeks ago that the premier’s stance was just part of the game.

Going in the campaign, the NDP leader’s Quebec trump card was the sense that he was best placed to beat the Stephen Harper. More so than any federal NDP initiative, it was the party’s victory in Alberta last spring that cemented Mulcair’s formidable pre-campaign lead in his home-province. Now the fact that the party is running third in the rest of Canada is sinking in.

At this juncture, the question on everyone’s mind is whether the NDP has hit bottom in Quebec or whether it could continue to lose support between now and the vote. The short answer is that the New Democrats have no fixed floor of support in Quebec. It has yet to build a solid capital of loyalty.

Mario Dumont, the former leader of the Action Démocratique party, can testify to the perils of that.

In 2007, he came within seven seats of leading his young party to a minority victory against Jean Charest’s Liberals. But over the year and a half that followed, Quebecers were unimpressed by the ADQ’s performance in official opposition. In an election held 20 short months after he had landed on the doorstep of provincial power, Dumont was left with only seven seats.

If the NDP is to avoid going in a similar tailspin, time is increasingly of the essence. Over the next four days, Mulcair will have his last best two opportunities to reverse the tide.

On Friday, he will take part in the last French-language debate of the campaign on Quebec private network TVA. Then, on Sunday, Mulcair will appear on Tout le monde en parle, Radio-Canada’s popular television talk show. Both events are expected to draw large audiences.

But Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau is going in the debate on a more of a roll than he is and the niqab issue that has been the NDP’s nemesis in Quebec is bound to come up on both nights.

Mulcair is down two strikes. He desperately needs a home run if he wants his party to still be the Quebec home team after Oct. 19

As usual Herbert is on point. The NDP have coasted on their incumbent front runner status and have offered nothing except the general feeling that they would bring Quebec ideas to Ottawa. It doesn't help the NDP that the Liberals have done a hard left move, mimicking almost every NDP promise with higher numbers attached. At this point I have no idea what the NDP could promise that the Liberals wouldn't have already matched. The parties are that close.

Muclair has two good opportunities coming up to do something to hold onto his base. What he can do I have no idea, but he clearly needs to change what he's doing. It can't just be the same thing, but with more intensity.

The question for armchair strategists is that if the NDP support drops further still where does it go? Does it split between Conservative and Bloc leaving the NDP with seats, or does it mostly go to the Conservatives, ensuring a strong Conservative minority? Does it go to the Liberals, which haven't traditionally seemed that popular outside of Montreal?

 

[Tiktaalik]

You'd think the promise to take childcare national would be popular in Quebec, as Quebec would now have their system partially funded by the Feds instead of wholly by themselves. That'd free up a lot of Quebec Provincial tax dollars to go to use in other areas. Is Mulcair not hammering that point home hard enough?

 

[Pedrito]

You'd think the promise to take childcare national would be popular in Quebec, as Quebec would now have their system partially funded by the Feds instead of wholly by themselves. That'd free up a lot of Quebec Provincial tax dollars to go to use in other areas. Is Mulcair not hammering that point home hard enough?

The average voter has no grasp on how things work. They probably think "a childcare plan...who cares, we have one already".

Also, niqab.

 

[gutter_trash]

You'd think the promise to take childcare national would be popular in Quebec, as Quebec would now have their system partially funded by the Feds instead of wholly by themselves. That'd free up a lot of Quebec Provincial tax dollars to go to use in other areas. Is Mulcair not hammering that point home hard enough?

"Le NPD enfreigne sur les compétences du Québec avec leur platforme centralisateure" yada yada

 

[Oppo]

An overwhelming majority of Quebecers support a niqab ban. The NDP opposes it.

But the New Democrat campaign had started to lose steam before the niqab appeared on the radar, for reasons more fundamental than the pent-up passions unleashed by a Conservative play on the identity front.

From a Quebec perspective the NDP’s platform is an underwhelming one.

damn it.

that ones not on Mulcair. that's on Quebec voters. it's gross.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

"Le NPD enfreigne sur les compétences du Québec avec leur platforme centralisateure" yada yada

That's said sarcastically and in an approximate french, but you're not wrong. Less power in the hands of provinces and back in the hands of the federal government is never popular here, and I wholeheartedly agree.

And explaining the switch happening in Quebec exclusively with the niqab is a bit too simplistic. Sure, this circus act orchestrated by Harper has a big impact (elsewhere in Canada too), but if you look at the polls, Liberals are going up in Quebec too (reminder: they're against the niqab ban too). My (personal and pulled out of my ass) guess: as Quebec has been an "outsider" on the federal scene for a long time, a lot of people finally want to try to "play by the rules" by electing a federalist party here. That's what happened with the orange wave here in 2011, but it still failed as we still ended up being "outsiders" in a CPC government. Same thing is happening this year, and with the NPD leading the polls for a while, people in Quebec thought they had a chance of finally being in the "winning camp" by voting NPD. Now that the NPD is losing steam and is back in 3rd place, being in the losers camp yet again is not that attractive and people are switching around (in part because of the niqab shit show, but not exclusively as shown by the Liberals gains). I suspect voting intentions in Quebec will solidify back around 1 party as we get closer to the election date.

 

[gutter_trash]

Mulcair on policy has been running a Provincial style campaign on health, childcare, environment that would fit for a singular province but not jive for another who have either different models or would preffer that the Federal just give money back that they cut in the past

he shows off his experience but more as a Provincial representative than someone who understands the Federal system

 

[Tabris]

Here's the issue with our current healthcare funding:

The population tidal wave.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CQKUaNrUAAAmAzU.mp4

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

To me, the NDP seems like they've always fared better as a plucky underdog that's easy to root for because they're so idealistic and different (sort of like the Greens but with way more seats). But when they're in the lead and on the verge of forming government, the electorate gets cold feet, because those idealistic promises start to look unrealistic and overly drastic. The NDP also seem to coast as to not antagonize anyone.

 

[Parch]

For the first time in history Quebec and the west seemed to agree that the NDP could truly be a national party that represents the entire country. The Liberals have never done this. The west will never support the Liberals. For many westerners, the alternate to the Conservatives is the NDP.

But now the NDP seems to be losing Quebec and the hopes to get the Conservatives out of power is lost. Plus Ontario seems to have little interest in the NDP and chose to resurrect the failed Liberals instead. And once again, getting the Conservatives out of power is lost.

So why has Quebec lost faith in the NDP and why is Ontario so afraid of the NDP? End result of this thinking? Conservatives back in power.

 

[killer rin]

Here's the issue with our current healthcare funding:

The population tidal wave.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CQKUaNrUAAAmAzU.mp4

...so pretty much this

 

[Kifimbo]

So why has Quebec lost faith in the NDP and why is Ontario so afraid of the NDP?

Quebec never really "had faith" in the NDP. People were tired of the Bloc and they liked Jack Layton. It was never really about the party's ideas or proposals.

 

[gutter_trash]

Quebec never really "had faith" in the NDP. People were tired of the Bloc and they liked Jack Layton. It was never really about the party's ideas or proposals.

pretty much this, Jack Layton stole the show with his Tout Le Monde en Parle appearance. Iggy failed to camptivate anybody at all and Gilles Duceppe's broken record just allowed Harper to continuously win unchallenged.

there are no deep NDP roots here.

It is true that the traditional Liberal base has been shattered since 2006 but the Liberal roots still exist.

as for the Conservatives, they are targeting focused campaign that used to be strong Creditiste (Réal Caouette) areas or former strong PC areas and going after those more Right leaning nationalists who used to be ubber-Catholic anti-communist.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Hey here's a super depressing new Angus Reid Poll that shows the Conservatives with a great deal of momentum.

Election 2015: Conservatives edge forward leaving NDP and Liberals locked in second-place tie


Follow the link for pretty graphs.

With only 19 days left in the 2015 federal election campaign, a volatile electorate is enabling the Conservative Party of Canada (CPC) to begin to shake loose from the Liberals (LPC) and New Democrats (NDP), while the two opposition parties fight it out for second place.

CPC supporters and strategists should stifle angus reid instituteany urges to start popping champagne corks just yet however, as data from this latest public opinion poll from the Angus Reid Institute also shows voters remain intractably uncommitted in their vote intentions: half say they could change their mind before October 19, and for many of those the choice will run right up to the final days of the campaign.


This ARI online poll of just over 2,000 eligible Canadian voters shows the Conservatives have opened a seven-point lead over the LPC and NDP, with the support of 34 per cent of decided voters. Nationally, the NDP now stands at 27 per cent, at the same support level as the Liberals (27%).

Quebec:


The New Democrats’ 16-point decline over the last month puts them fully 10 points back from their 2011 showing here, and boosts the fortunes of every other main party in Quebec – with the Conservatives, Liberals and once moribund Bloc Quebecois all picking up support


Ontario:

In Canada’s most vote-rich province, meanwhile, recent losses for the NDP are near-direct gains for the Conservatives, up seven points in Ontario, where the NDP are down nine, and the Liberals are statistically unchanged (-1).

British Columbia:

The western battleground of BC has seen far less volatility over the last month: the main parties’ standings remain unchanged, with only slight movements in party support.


...

The notable reversal of fortune for the NDP and leader Thomas Mulcair is visible in the current “momentum scores” — simply the number of voters reporting a worsened opinion over the recent weeks of the campaign from those reporting an improved opinion.

Mulcair has seen a deterioration of 18 points over the last four weeks, from a momentum score of +9 to the current -9. Stephen Harper has seen his momentum score (still in negative territory) improve by about as much: 17 points. The Liberals’ Justin Trudeau remains unchanged as seen in the graph below:

The Angus Reid data seems to show Harper as the main beneficiary of the NDP drop in support. This poll shows the Liberals as being quite a bit more static than some other recent polls.

I'm anxiously awaiting Ekos numbers and the next Abacus poll...

 

[killer rin]

Hey here's a super depressing new Angus Reid Poll that shows the Conservatives with a great deal of momentum.

Election 2015: Conservatives edge forward leaving NDP and Liberals locked in second-place tie


Follow the link for pretty graphs.



The Angus Reid data seems to show Harper as the main beneficiary of the NDP drop in support. This poll shows the Liberals as being quite a bit more static than some other recent polls.

I'm anxiously awaiting Ekos numbers and the next Abacus poll...

Welp, its over. Time to pack our bags guys. Conservatives are coming out of this with another Majority.

 

[Annubis]

More about Quebec and Niqab.

A local poll asked: Is the Niqab issue important?

53% - No
44% - Yes
3% - I don't know

 

[Divvy]

More about Quebec and Niqab.

A local poll asked: Is the Niqab issue important?

53% - No
44% - Yes
3% - I don't know

44 goddamn percent.

Not really surprising to me considering how much racist shit my friend has experienced there.

 

[Azih]

It's a special kind of horrible for me to know that stoking fears about the group of people I belong to is good politics in this country.

 

[dragonfart28]

It's a special kind of horrible for me to know that stoking fears about the group of people I belong to is good politics in this country.

It's certainly populism.

The Conservatives are spending $300,000 of taxpayers dollars fighting something in courts that they know they will lose just so they can get some votes.

That's pretty fucking villainous if you ask me.

 

[Tiktaalik]

New Democrats announce plan to end interest on student loans

If elected, the New Democrats will phase out interest on federal student loans over the next seven years, the party announced at a press conference in Saskatoon on Thursday.

“Put simply, the government shouldn’t be profiting from student debt,” said Claire Card, the candidate for Saskatoon-University.

The announcement, by candidates Sheri Benson, who’s running in Saskatoon-West, Scott Bell, running in Saskatoon-Grasswood and Card, was made on the University of Saskatchewan campus.

The party says it will begin phasing out interest on loans immediately, and that this change would save the average student $4,000 when it comes to repaying loans.

Additionally, the NDP will invest $250 million, over four years, to create around 74,000 new grants for students, according to the party. The emphasis, the NDP says, will be on “helping students who need it most.”

“We know that lots of students are not going to university because they can’t afford it,” said Benson.

The Canadian Federation of Students says that, on average, students in Ontario face debt loads of upwards of $28,000.

The NDP says that since 2006, student debt has jumped by 30 per cent, and that debt has reached $23 billion in total. Card, who is a teacher at the University of Saskatchewan’s Western College of Veterinary Medicine, says she has seen first-hand the stress that student debt puts on students.

Benson said the proposals are about providing “immediate” debt relief for students.

Universities and colleges are funded in large part by the provinces, and while the NDP candidates pointed out Canada’s escalating tuition rates, no new money was promised to help provinces deal with increasing costs of tuition.

The party promised to “work” with provinces to make education more affordable, accessible and inclusive, but no details were given.

The NDP is gonna need a lot more like this if they're going to turn this thing around and win back the "Change" voter.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

44 goddamn percent.

Not really surprising to me considering how much racist shit my friend has experienced there.

I don't really see how answering "yes" to this question automatically makes you a racist. Naive and gullible, sure, but racist? (and I'm not saying no one answered "yes" because of a racist ideology. What I'm saying is I don't think there's a direct correlation)

 

[Azih]

I don't really see how answering "yes" to this question automatically makes you a racist. Naive and gullible, sure, but racist? (and I'm not saying no one answered "yes" because of a racist ideology. What I'm saying is I don't think there's a direct correlation)

I'll be honest. As a Muslim it feels like a demonisation of the culture I belong to and the people I grew up with. It makes it feel like it's socially acceptable to bash my faith and my identity as a member of that faith.

 

[gutter_trash]

I don't really see how answering "yes" to this question automatically makes you a racist. Naive and gullible, sure, but racist? (and I'm not saying no one answered "yes" because of a racist ideology. What I'm saying is I don't think there's a direct correlation)

as a secular person myself who read up on the history of the Quiet Revolution to break away the shackles of the Catholic Church, I fully understand people who are weary of ultra-conservative religious customs that go against gender equality.

I do not believe that everyone who is against the Niqab to be racist either.

Politicians though are playing with it because they know there are some votes to steal there.

But I will still vote Liberal because I believe that preserving our social insurance, employment insurance to be more important than 2 woman who refuse to show their face during a swearing in ceremony.

 

[Divvy]

I don't really see how answering "yes" to this question automatically makes you a racist. Naive and gullible, sure, but racist? (and I'm not saying no one answered "yes" because of a racist ideology. What I'm saying is I don't think there's a direct correlation)

I didn't say 44% of Quebecers (Quebecois?) are racist, that's way too much of a simplification of the issue. I'm saying that Quebec seems to still have a big issue with racism.

 

[Azih]

as a secular person myself who read up on the history of the Quiet Revolution to break away the shackles of the Catholic Church, I fully understand people who are weary of ultra-conservative religious customs that go against gender equality.

This is not the 60s, this is not the Catholic Church, and the lady who is causing all this certainly doesn't think she's subservient to any man. I'd be mad at her but she's fucking fighting for her rights against fucking Stephen Harper and how can I do anything but applaud that? It might lead to a bad outcome but she's doing what's right

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I'll be honest. As a Muslim it feels like a demonisation of the culture I belong to and the people I grew up with.

Oh, I'm not negating that, I want to make clear. This situation is terrible and demonizing a whole group of people based on stereotypes and baseless fear is disgusting.

What I meant is that, from my point of view, politicians are benefiting from the ignorance of a large portion of the population. A lot of people (especially older people / people in rural areas) are not familiar with foreign cultures. The unknown can be scary (especially when you're old and used to your reassuring routine!). Now their prime minister and the medias are telling them that this culture they're not familiar with is menacing the canadian culture and traditions! *gulp*. If you're younger, live in urban areas, get your information from the internet, etc., it's easy to see through the bullshit, but when you're more isolated and only see the situation through the eyes of a few populist medias, it's easy to feel threatened, and that's exactly what Harper and co are aiming for.

 

[Azih]

I see what you're saying. Yeah I'm not nearly on the same page as Walpurgis in seeing racists everywhere. Scary fear of the foreign other is what's being preyed on. There's a lot of racial overtones of course and it's a fear leads directly to outright bigotry. But it's fear that's being preyed on. I just really hate being a part of the scary foreign other in this situation.

It's not a Quebec only issue either. Harper is confident that his base in English Canada isn't going to be turned away by Muslim bashing either and it might get him some extra seats even.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Yeah, I can perfectly understand that.

The fact that this type of fearmongering works so well and is almost unchallenged is depressing and a bit frightening for the future...

 

[CitizenVectron]

The only thing I'm surprised at is NDP supporting shifting to CPC in Ontario...that doesn't make a lot of sense. Sometimes you'll see people switch ideologies in order to stop a radical party from getting in (or to kick a party out of power), but in this case NDP shifting to CPC to prevent LPC's from gaining doesn't make a lot of sense. The only other thing I can think of is that a lot of those votes are niqab-related, and that it was blue-collar support that is now focused on security/race issues rather than economic (where they would normally support NDP). Or the poll is a bit wrong, but who knows.

 

[Tiktaalik]

I don't really see how answering "yes" to this question automatically makes you a racist. Naive and gullible, sure, but racist? (and I'm not saying no one answered "yes" because of a racist ideology. What I'm saying is I don't think there's a direct correlation)

I agree. A primary problem is ignorance of the issues and what is being discussed. The Conservative soundbites on the niqab and stripping citizenship from terrorists appears reasonable at immediate first glance without the background details. Only after a bit of thought on the issue do the many problems become apparent. For this reason I think we see the high support. Voters are giving their immediate knee jerk reactions, but haven't really internalized the issue and developed a real opinion on it yet.

Similarly the immediate reactions to C-51 were super positive. Only after some thought and community discussion did Canadians turn against it.

My hope is that there's still enough time in the campaign for voters to fully think through what the Conservatives are proposing and will ultimately reject it.

 

[Azih]

The only thing I'm surprised at is NDP supporting shifting to CPC in Ontario...that doesn't make a lot of sense. Sometimes you'll see people switch ideologies in order to stop a radical party from getting in (or to kick a party out of power), but in this case NDP shifting to CPC to prevent LPC's from gaining doesn't make a lot of sense. The only other thing I can think of is that a lot of those votes are niqab-related, and that it was blue-collar support that is now focused on security/race issues rather than economic (where they would normally support NDP). Or the poll is a bit wrong, but who knows.

There's a fair bit of Wynne backlash that can explain it. Canadians are weird. A lot of us don't tend to vote on the economic or social spectrum and have no issues going from Con to NDP and vice versa even before the NDP's push to the center..