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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015

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maharg

idspispopd
I don't think Topp would be a good choice for leadership of the NDP at all. The fact that he couldn't pull off the leadership with everything he had going for him, and the fact that he's essentially a back room political operative with all the baggage that almost certainly comes with that, doesn't bode at all well for how he'd do at the front of a national campaign. Good strategists do not necessarily make good politicians.

But then, I maintain that Mulcair -- personality wise -- should have been a good choice but the campaign they've run is really really terrible and not at all well suited to him. Angry Tom should have been let out of the cage.
 

Sakura

Member
Just voted, no line for my riding but the one next to mine had 20 people. They didn't accept my photo health card or passport. Luckily I went with my dad and he verified me. The stupid part was that the election canada website said that the two id's I provided in conjunction would be valid.

Seems silly. I've voted with expired ID before.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
I prefer Angry Tom over Justin's phony smiles. *shrugs* If I had to fight Harper I'd be angry too.

I don't have a preference between the NDP or the Liberals, I could live with either and just want the Conservatives booted out, but I feel that Justin is pretty genuine. Mulcair has felt more phony to me than Justin to be honest, I wanted to see that fire he brings in Parliament but instead he's been suppressing all election long.

I also think Justin was the most genuine, outside of Elizabeth May, in the debates and performed the best out of all of the leaders.
 

Parch

Member
Parch - Still waiting for that answer.
I gave you an answer. I don't like the Liberal platform and prefer the NDP one more. Not all liberal leaning platforms are the same. I didn't see much change from previous Liberal platforms. Previous governments that I consider failures, but I guess I consider a lot of recent governments as failures.
I read all of this year's platforms when they were linked, but I don't want to comment on specifics based on memory. If that's not specific enough for you... tough.

I'm glad you think the Liberal platform is "amazing". Accept that a lot of people don't. Accept that a lot of people never have.
 

Stet

Banned
This is why ranked ballots are garbage. It just yields a more muddled and complex FPTP variant that bakes in even more elaborate "strategic voting" into the system. The strong supporters on the left and right will simply put NDP or Conservative #1 and leave the rest blank.

That's not a flaw in ranked ballots, that's by design. It's not to FORCE you to choose more than one candidate. It's to give people who have multiple choices the opportunity to vote how they want and still ensure that it's known that they would rather have other options than an alternative.
 

Annubis

Member
Seems silly. I've voted with expired ID before.

I once used my old UQAM University student card and they were fine with it.
That thing expired a long time ago so I'm not sure if they even look at the date on the card.
Maybe they just check if the picture matches.
 

NetMapel

Guilty White Male Mods Gave Me This Tag
Just another last minute reminder to all those still on the fence on what each party's platform is, here is the definitive breakdown:

mXbuUDu.jpg
 

mo60

Member
Why would that be true for conservative voters and not people voting for other parties?

Because consertvatives voters are most likely to vote earlier since less conservative supporters have a second choice compared to the other parties.

I voted in an advance voting station close to my house and I voted for the Liberals. I just hope the Liberals stay true to their word and don't screw things up if they win government and keep appealing to progressive voters. I overhead someone while waiting to get registered to vote talking about how people made a mistake voting for the ndp in the recent provincial election because they voted for the ndp for emotional reasons and not for logical reasons. I felt like facepalming when I heard that.The other parties were terrible in that provincial election so everyone mostly voted for the ndp because they were better.
 

sikkinixx

Member
My wife can't vote next week so we did the advance poll today. 25 minutes or so. Them having to write the name and address takes forever. Oh well, all done now. No Communist or Pot or other crazy parties on the ballot this year. Just the main four plus a Libertarian.
 
My wife can't vote next week so we did the advance poll today. 25 minutes or so. Them having to write the name and address takes forever. Oh well, all done now. No Communist or Pot or other crazy parties on the ballot this year. Just the main four plus a Libertarian.

We've got a Christian Heritage Party candidate on our ballet. I'm eager to see some vote splitting on the right.
 

oneils

Member
I read that due to Harper's budget cuts, queue times at polling stations have increased significantly since last election. So be prepared to wait.

There was a tweak to the rules for advance voting that makes it longer. Budget cuts don't really have an impact on it.

Edit, and of course the higher turn out is slowing it down.
 

Sean C

Member
I was trying to be polite. Pierre's treatment of Quebec was a real piece of work.
How, precisely? Is this a reference to the "night of the long knives" nonsense?

Maybe Canadians aren't used to charismatic leaders after our last couple (Harper, Martin, Chretian)
Chretien had lots of charisma. Not of the silver-tongued variety, but he could charm the voters as good as anybody on the national stage in recent memory.
 
Because consertvatives voters are most likely to vote earlier since less conservative supporters have a second choice compared to the other parties.

That...doesn't make much sense. Do you have a source to back up either the assertion that more conservatives vote early, or that people with a "second choice" vote later?
 

pr0cs

Member
and Trudeau is still popular outside of Quebec and the Prairies.
Uh, no... Especially if they remember the NEP

Pierre is the reason why the Liberal party never has had much of a foothold in the west, even if the party has changed a lot since then
 

mo60

Member
That...doesn't make much sense. Do you have a source to back up either the assertion that more conservatives vote early, or that people with a "second choice" vote later?

No it's something I have been reading on other sites like reddit. It's actually possible this is true. It's also possible that conservative voters are not really answering calls from nanos anymore because they are busy doing other stuff like being with their family during thanksgiving, but this should apply to the other parties to. This might explain why they dropped 2.4% a few days ago in the nanos poll on that day.Other factors like the way they have been running their campaign lately could have influenced the drop to. Let's wait and see if they recover in the next few days.

I'm probably going to find data on this later.
 
Just voted, no line for my riding but the one next to mine had 20 people. They didn't accept my photo health card or passport. Luckily I went with my dad and he verified me. The stupid part was that the election canada website said that the two id's I provided in conjunction would be valid.

And one needs to have your civic address on it.
 

Umibozu

Member
And one needs to have your civic address on it.
I had stated that I had a current bill that showed my address, I also had an expired drivers license that has the same address. Both of which the elections canada say is accepted/good.
The person insisted that my dad show his license.
 

jstripes

Banned
Can't decide whether to vote today or next week. Next week the polls are in my building and there's no chance I'll be held up enough to prevent me from casting.

Today it's at a school down the street and there will likely be lines.
I prefer to vote on election day, but I decided to vote today because next Monday is inconvenient for me.

So, it is done. (Massive lineup.)

Even though I'm a pretty moderate Liberal, I'd be so down for the PCs to comeback.

Yep. As a former PCer, I'm basically a Liberal by default. It'd be nice to have someone else as a fallback just in case.
I heard a bit of a Trudeau speech on the radio today where he blatantly poked at that fault line.

He essentially said that Harper has crapped all over the heritage of the Progressive Conservative party.

It's almost as if he's trying to drive a schism in the Conservative party.
 

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
I had stated that I had a current bill that showed my address, I also had an expired drivers license that has the same address. Both of which the elections canada say is accepted/good.
The person insisted that my dad show his license.
Sounds like a clear case of voter suppression. Is there a way to file a complaint for cases like this?

Didn't plan on voting, but given the current state of affairs, I have decided to send my application for overseas citizens.

Wow, what a hypocrite.
 

SRG01

Member
I had stated that I had a current bill that showed my address, I also had an expired drivers license that has the same address. Both of which the elections canada say is accepted/good.
The person insisted that my dad show his license.

Talk to a supervisor and escalate. This already happened once in Calgary during the advance polling.
 

Sean C

Member
Uh, no... Especially if they remember the NEP

Pierre is the reason why the Liberal party never has had much of a foothold in the west, even if the party has changed a lot since then
The post you're quoting says "Quebec and the Prairies" (though the Liberals actually have had a pretty decent base in Manitoba for most of the period since Trudeau's time).
 

Zzoram

Member
Just voted, no line for my riding but the one next to mine had 20 people. They didn't accept my photo health card or passport. Luckily I went with my dad and he verified me. The stupid part was that the election canada website said that the two id's I provided in conjunction would be valid.

Out of curiosity, are you a visible minority? It sounds like they almost illegally disenfranchised you.
 

Umibozu

Member
Out of curiosity, are you a visible minority? It sounds like they almost illegally disenfranchised you.
Not really, the elections officer was as well. I don't think that it was racially motivated, I think that the person was just being too methodical about the job.
I could see it becoming a problem for others at some point though.
 

anaron

Member
I don't think Topp would be a good choice for leadership of the NDP at all. The fact that he couldn't pull off the leadership with everything he had going for him, and the fact that he's essentially a back room political operative with all the baggage that almost certainly comes with that, doesn't bode at all well for how he'd do at the front of a national campaign. Good strategists do not necessarily make good politicians.

But then, I maintain that Mulcair -- personality wise -- should have been a good choice but the campaign they've run is really really terrible and not at all well suited to him. Angry Tom should have been let out of the cage.
Agreed.

Mulcair himself is a fairly charismatic guy and I'll always have a soft spot for him because of this but it's mostly the campaign that's been shitty, something the NDP seems to refuse to learn from.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Cast my ballot!

Liberal, and not for any of that nauseating natural born governing party jingo jango bullshit and its ilk. Stahp. Just stahp. It's gross.
 

Parch

Member
Mulcair himself is a fairly charismatic guy and I'll always have a soft spot for him because of this but it's mostly the campaign that's been shitty, something the NDP seems to refuse to learn from.
I can't see the party sticking with Mulcair as leader, especially if they end up with less seats. It's not like when the NDP had a few token seats. They were expected to do well and even if the bad campaign wasn't necessarily Mulcair's fault, the party should select a new leader for the next election.
 

wmlk

Member
I would have loved a by the books guy like Mulcair to be PM, but it's just not happening. He's different from Layton but I have more faith in him than any of the other candidates.
 

maharg

idspispopd
I can't see the party sticking with Mulcair as leader, especially if they end up with less seats. It's not like when the NDP had a few token seats. They were expected to do well and even if the bad campaign wasn't necessarily Mulcair's fault, the party should select a new leader for the next election.

I don't think they should necessarily keep him until the next campaign, but if he gets forced out right after the election after anything but a drop back to 2008 number of seats (ie. <30) then I think we'll be in an election again shortly one way or another, barring an outright majority happening. I think it'd also throw the NDP into a Liberal-style revolving door leadership for a while, and that would be bad for the party.

Whatever else, Mulcair is great in the legislature. They'd lose a powerful voice by canning him right away.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Given that a few pages back people were wondering whether the NDP would have been doing better if Layton were still alive I dug up the 2011 NDP platform to have a look at how it differed from what the NDP is proposing under Mulcair. You can read the platform in PDF form here. 2015 platform available here.

What's remarkable is that it's nearly the exact same platform.

The 2011 platform promises to
- Lower small business taxes
- Raise corporate taxes
- Enact a cap and trade system
- Abolish Senate

The "cautious, sensible change" terminology from this campaign is all over this document.

...

For too long Ottawa has focused on the priorities of the well-connected, not the priorities of your family. Together we&#8217;re going to fix that.
Today I&#8217;m releasing my affordable plan to get Ottawa working for your family - one practical step at a time.

...

They even promise to balance the budget.

7.5 balancing the federal budget
&#8226; We will maintain Canada&#8217;s commitment to balance the federal budget within the next 4 years, as per the Department of Finance projections.

So much has been written about how the NDP has shifted right under Mulcair in an effort to capture the centre, but the fact is when you look at these platforms next to one another there's almost no difference. If anything I think with the addition of $15 day care, Mulcair's platform feels more progressive than Layton's. In general though I'd say that the NDP really hasn't changed their platform that much at all.

The big change between 2011 and 2015 comes from their relationship to what the Liberal Party was doing. In 2011 the Liberal Party under Ignatieff was still hugging the centre, positioning themselves as a sensible alternative to the Conservatives. In 2015 the Liberals stopped being deficit hawks and cranked up the left wing rhetoric.

Given that the NDP are essentially running on Layton's 2011 platform, it's possible that Layton would have also been caught flat footed by the Liberal change in strategy the way that Mulcair has.
 
Mulcair's smiles are much phonier. I found Tom Mulcair's fake smiles and overall demeanor faker than any Canadian party leader I've ever witnessed actually. He's a disaster.

nah for me is smiles are more of a "I cracked a great joke didn't I?" smile

I mean it looks genuine but he is smiling expecting everyone knows as to why he is smiling




BONUS PICTURE:

Now if only the joined an alliance together


Edit: On another note

lol I thought my brother was an outlier for this situation when he saw his ballot already had crossed a candidate for him
 

mo60

Member
I don't think they should necessarily keep him until the next campaign, but if he gets forced out right after the election after anything but a drop back to 2008 number of seats (ie. <30) then I think we'll be in an election again shortly one way or another, barring an outright majority happening. I think it'd also throw the NDP into a Liberal-style revolving door leadership for a while, and that would be bad for the party.

Whatever else, Mulcair is great in the legislature. They'd lose a powerful voice by canning him right away.

At this point I think they will only lose between 15 and 25 seats(maybe even less than that). I don't think they will chuck him out unless they get a devastating loss because they really can't afford to have a leadership race during a minority government especially one that may be a bit more unstable than usual.It;s possible Mulcair decides to quit himself or they decide to chuck him out anyway.
 

SRG01

Member
My current MP which is a independent recently talked about the many problems with the PMO office during harper's rule at an all candidate forum he took part in recently.
http://albertapolitics.ca/2015/10/i...ders-take-on-the-many-sins-of-the-harper-pmo/

Oh, you're from St. Albert/NW Edmonton? Nice, there's quite a few Edmontonians in this thread. Even though I disagree with Rathgeber on many issues, I definitely respect him as an MP and politician with integrity.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Agreed.

Mulcair himself is a fairly charismatic guy and I'll always have a soft spot for him because of this but it's mostly the campaign that's been shitty, something the NDP seems to refuse to learn from.
Haha that's awesome.

Voted earlier today myself. There was a small line, but for some reason my boyfriend and I, being assigned to some particular voting station #, could go ahead of most of the line (I didn't quite understand, but I didn't complain!) so it went by real quick.
 
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