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[Professor Renegade]

"No one believes you Mr. Harper"
My boy Trudeau being Alpha as fuck tonight.

Honestly though, I'm pretty split between the Liberals and NDP. I really like Trudeau's idea for taxing the wealthy more, but as a student $15 minimum wage sounds fucking great. There are other issues of course, but those are the big ones that stood out for me.

 

[Kieli]

"Retirement age will not increase for another 10 years."

"Oh, that's for our grandchildren to worry about?"

I lol'd.

There's a lot of talking over other people. What's the moderator doing?

 

[TheStruggler]

"No one believes you Mr. Harper"
My boy Trudeau being Alpha as fuck tonight.

Honestly though, I'm pretty split between the Liberals and NDP. I really like Trudeau's idea for taxing the wealthy more, but as a student $15 minimum wage sounds fucking great. There are other issues of course, but those are the big ones that stood out for me.

doesnt the 15 dollar wage only effect less than 1%, atleast i think thats what trudeau said

 

[DreamMachine]

"No one believes you Mr. Harper"
My boy Trudeau being Alpha as fuck tonight.

Honestly though, I'm pretty split between the Liberals and NDP. I really like Trudeau's idea for taxing the wealthy more, but as a student $15 minimum wage sounds fucking great. There are other issues of course, but those are the big ones that stood out for me.

It's not a canada wide 15 minimum wage it's federal jobs only.

 

[Professor Renegade]

It's not a canada wide 15 minimum wage it's federal jobs only.

Well fuck that then.

 

[TheStruggler]

 

[Hilti92]

Everyone made Harper look silly. The guy really isn't relevant in this as he's just spewing out garbage and bad statistics.

 

[Sch1sm]

"Retirement age will not increase for another 10 years."

"Oh, that's for our grandchildren to worry about?"

I lol'd.

There's a lot of talking over other people. What's the moderator doing?

Must have forgot that there's still some youth voting here who will come around in a decade and barely or just be halfway to the current retirement age. I'll only be 30 then. God. I'll work until I'm dead.

Everyone made Harper look silly. The guy really isn't relevant in this as he's just spewing out garbage and bad statistics.

I think that's the point of these at this point. Thing is, I'm sure majority of the lost conservative votes (whatever they lose, based on debates and the like) will go to the Liberal party. The others won't capitalise as well on Harper's missteps.

 

[nib95]

Please for the love of everything Canada, don't let Harper win again...

 

[Sakura]

These guys really need to learn to fake smile.
Harper looks like he isn't there, Mulcair just looks plain angry.

 

[dream]

These guys really need to learn to fake smile.
Harper looks like he isn't there, Mulcair just looks plain angry.

Mulcair's demeanor troubles me. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool NDPer, and as an Albertan, I now know that the NDP can win in conservative strongholds. But, man, I find it almost impossible to connect to Mulcair.

 

[Professor Renegade]

Please for the love of everything Canada, don't let Harper win again...

Nobody believes him.

 

[MMarston]

These guys really need to learn to fake smile.
Harper looks like he isn't there, Mulcair just looks plain angry.

Everyone would've been better off just doing subtle, close lipped smiles instead of those shit eating grins.

 

[maharg]

I am not only not in Canada right now, but I didn't get a chance to watch the debate yet and won't for a while. Making me sad. Gonna watch it on the weekend, probably.

 

[Sch1sm]

I am not only not in Canada right now, but I didn't get a chance to watch the debate yet and won't for a while. Making me sad. Gonna watch it on the weekend, probably.

It's okay. Long story short, nobody believes Mr. Harper.

 

[Walpurgis]

These guys really need to learn to fake smile.
Harper looks like he isn't there, Mulcair just looks plain angry.

Lol at Mulcair and Harper. At least, May looks normal.

 

[Hilti92]

Must have forgot that there's still some youth voting here who will come around in a decade and barely or just be halfway to the current retirement age. I'll only be 30 then. God. I'll work until I'm dead.



I think that's the point of these at this point. Thing is, I'm sure majority of the lost conservative votes (whatever they lose, based on debates and the like) will go to the Liberal party. The others won't capitalise as well on Harper's missteps.

I hope so. I'm not sure why they were giving Trudeau a bad rep because he was interrupting. He's calling out bullshit and explaining it. Mulclair was praised in the first little bit for being civil and not barging in but is it not a debate?

 

[Tiktaalik]

Weirdly I feel like everyone did a pretty good job and exceeded my expectations.

Trudeau did pretty well for a newbie, and even though his his closing statements was obviously cheeseball shit designed to pull at the heartstrings I liked it.

May did a great job considering that she was basically ignored by everyone.

Mulcair actually disappointed me a bit considering how great of an attack dog he's been in Parliament Question Period. He did land some great punches though and did a pretty good job.

Harper is of course great at this by now, as he's done a ton of debates. He has this great ability to sound calm and rational, and sort of shrug his shoulders and make it sound like everyone else are a bunch of nitpickers out to get him for no real reason.

 

[lanella]

Harper was kind of the pro at amateur hour and had some great spins on all the negative press.

May was the big surprise, she really held her own with the bigger party leaders.

I voted for NDP in Alberta this election but with Mulclair I can't get a read on him, his demeaner just feels fake.

A lot of Trudeau's statements felt coached, he definitely needs to work on his public speaking.

It's tough, I'm not sure who I will be voting for yet.

 

[Evo Shandor]

I think Mulcair was trying to look more like Prime Minister material to shake the accusations about his temper and sometimes angry demeanor. Both I and the fiancée, who has very little knowledge of politics, thought that May and Mulcair did the best jobs. Harper came off as sleazy but he did do a very good job defending himself against a dogpile. Trudeau was stumbling too much over his words in the middle half but did well in the beginning quarter and the end quarter. While his ending statement was hokey as fuck, it was the best delivered.

 

[matthewwhatever]

These guys really need to learn to fake smile.
Harper looks like he isn't there, Mulcair just looks plain angry.

Mulcair looks like he stubbed his toe, but he's trying not to show it. Can't believe that may be his only English debate, but if that's how he's going to perform in them, I kind of see why he doesn't want any more.

National Post: Tom Mulcair turns in ‘restrained’ — and, some would say, uncomfortably smiley — debate performance

Also, Metro's coverage of the debate:

 

[Impeccable]

One of my highlights was after voting reform and Harper saying it's not an issue and Canadians don't care for a change the poll comes up with 85% in favour of change.

Wish there was more debates though.

 

[gutter_trash]

Muclair's fake smile is exemplary of his fakeness;
Thomas Muclair = ex Provincial Quebec Liberal left wanting to be a Conservative advisor than runs as an NDP candidate then weaseled his way to the top of the NDP after the passing of Jack Layton.

At least with Trudeau, you know he is a Federalist Liberal and a Trudeau who does not bow to separatists for vote pandering

 

[Tabris]

I'm watching the debate right now and only a 1/4th through so far, but honestly, May is the most impressive so far, which I wasn't expecting.

Wish she was the NDP or Liberal leader.

If only green party could win enough ridings. Maybe there could be some crazy movement after this debate?

 

[Pedrito]

I'm watching the debate right now and only a 1/4th through so far, but honestly, May is the most impressive so far, which I wasn't expecting.

Wish she was the NDP or Liberal leader.

If only green party could win enough ridings. Maybe there could be some crazy movement after this debate?

That's the last thing this election needs.

And did people forget all the crazy stuff she posts on twitter? I like her because she says whatever she wants and she's right on many issues, but I certainly wouldn't want her her in a position of great power. There seems to be a bit of "truther" in her.

 

[Walpurgis]

I've only seen a litte bit of question period but I like Angry Tom way more than what we got last night. He got some hits in on Harper but he just skins him alive in question period.

 

[Tabris]

That's the last thing this election needs.

And did people forget all the crazy stuff she posts on twitter? I like her because she says whatever she wants and she's right on many issues, but I certainly wouldn't want her her in a position of great power. There seems to be a bit of "truther" in her.

There's a fear of vote splitting that is leading us to pick unsatisfactory picks. I have a bit more faith in Canadians to be able to be moved off their current preferred party if it makes sense for them. This isn't America where political lines are so defined, and citizens are a bit more informed (lots more work to go there though).

It just takes a movement.

 

[gutter_trash]

There's a fear of vote splitting that is leading us to pick unsatisfactory picks. I have a bit more faith in Canadians to be able to be moved off their current preferred party if it makes sense for them. This isn't America where political lines are so defined, and citizens are a bit more informed (lots more work to go there though).

It just takes a movement.

wishful thinking under a First Past The Post system

 

[Impeccable]

wishful thinking under a First Past The Post system

Yeah, more parties wouldn't be a problem under a better system.

As it stands now voter apathy is bred out of a belief a persons vote doesn't count. In a lot of areas, including mine it's true. My vote is completely dead in this system. I will continue to vote as always but something has to change and it's not surpring Harper thinks 15% of Canadians equals Canadians don't care about voting reform.

 

[Pedrito]

There's a fear of vote splitting that is leading us to pick unsatisfactory picks. I have a bit more faith in Canadians to be able to be moved off their current preferred party if it makes sense for them. This isn't America where political lines are so defined, and citizens are a bit more informed (lots more work to go there though).

It just takes a movement.

People are already scared to switch to the NDP "socialists". No way in hell a movement benefiting the Green Party would ever happen. All they can do is get to 10-12 %, win one or two seats, while Harper enjoys another majority (because no one switches from CPC to Green).

Hopefully we'll get electoral reform but until then, Greens can wait 4 years to get their day in the sun.

 

[Tabris]

The Liberal's platform on voter reform is what may be needed though (mandatory, online, proportional). That's one of the things I appreciate most in their platform.

Vote in Liberals for them to complete their voter reform. Then vote in Green party next 4 years

 

[Tiktaalik]

The Liberal's platform on voter reform is what may be needed though. That's one of the things I appreciate most in their platform.

Vote in Liberals for them to complete their voter reform. Then vote in Green party next 4 years

Oh boy I couldn't disagree more. The Liberals stance is that they'll have an all party committee study the ideas for a different voting system, whereas the NDP stance is very clear that they will switch to a proportional voting system. In my cynical opinion, the Liberal idea of studying the issue is a way to keep the door open to not doing anything at all. It would be possible for the committee to conclude FPTP is the best, or perhaps Trudeau wouldn't agree with the committee findings. The Liberal position reminds me much too much of the plethora of undelivered 90s Liberal promises Chretien gave us, such as marijuana decriminalization. Something to try to pull in left wing votes that they'll never implement once in power.

Between the two options, the one that seems more likely to be a serious piece of the agenda likely to be implemented is the NDP option.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

The Liberal's platform on voter reform is what may be needed though (mandatory, online, proportional). That's one of the things I appreciate most in their platform.

Vote in Liberals for them to complete their voter reform. Then vote in Green party next 4 years

You got it.

 

[gutter_trash]

I prefer the Liberal's preferential ranked ballot system over proportional rep.

proportional rep would empower too many fringe parties like Libertarian, Communist, Rhinoceros, Marxist-Leninist

Preferential ranked ballots allows your to pick a 2nd choice that would still be representative among real parties and not let our it degenerate would a swamp of mincro fringe parties flooding the ballot box

 

[Tabris]

Tiktaalik, those may be fair points. I just read on the overall points on voter reform brought up by the Liberals, but I am uninformed on the finer details.

There's still more for me to research before I make a decision.

EDIT - I am just getting to the voter reform part of the debate lol

EDIT 2 - lol, turned into a Quebec Separation debate.

EDIT 3 - Harper "Canadians don't want change in our voting system". He must only talk to people from Southern Ontario.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

I want the system Germany and the Scandinavian countries have. When I saw the right wing and left wing party in Germany make a coalition, I was *_*

We need more of that. Parties setting aside their petty differences and giving up their best talent and ideas for the country.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Probably the most interesting part of the debate in my opinion by far was when Trudeau went after Mulcair on the NDP's stance on the Clarity Act, as that's a real, significant difference between the Liberal and NDP parties and it had the two opposition leaders arguing amongst themselves instead of the usual Harper pileon.

This issue is a bit of a political inside baseball one and I'm not sure anyone outside of Ottawa and Quebec really cares about it. What did the GAFers that watched think? Did this change your opinion of the parties or leaders or is it pretty irrelevant compared to other issues?

The CBC At Issue panel discussed the background of the issue a bit and gave their insight. From what they say it's clear why Mulcair has the position he has and Trudeau the other. It was interesting to me to know that Mulcair's position is the one supported by the entire Quebec National Assembly, including the federalist Quebec Liberals. This is consistent with what I've read that the Clarity Act is not at all popular in Quebec. I can understand why Trudeau is taking the other side, but he badly needs to win Quebec seats in order to win this election, and I'm not sure if this is an issue enough for English Canada to offset the losses in Quebec.

 

[Spl1nter]

I prefer the Liberal's preferential ranked ballot system over proportional rep.

proportional rep would empower too many fringe parties like Libertarian, Communist, Rhinoceros, Marxist-Leninist

Preferential ranked ballots allows your to pick a 2nd choice that would still be representative among real parties and not let our it degenerate would a swamp of mincro fringe parties flooding the ballot box

I in theory prefer a ranked ballot system as well. A PR system would be odd as Canada has so many regional cleavages.

 

[EvilMario]

Talked with my middle age neighbour today. She's leaning Harper after watching the debate because "Justin is too young." and "I always vote for Harper. I don't see why we need to change. Then they have to start all over."

 

[Windam]

Talked with my middle age neighbour today. She's leaning Harper after watching the debate because "Justin is too young." and "I always vote for Harper. I don't see why we need to change. Then they have to start all over."

 

[Pedrito]

Probably the most interesting part of the debate in my opinion by far was when Trudeau went after Mulcair on the NDP's stance on the Clarity Act, as that's a real, significant difference between the Liberal and NDP parties and it had the two opposition leaders arguing amongst themselves instead of the usual Harper pileon.

This issue is a bit of a political inside baseball one and I'm not sure anyone outside of Ottawa and Quebec really cares about it. What did the GAFers that watched think? Did this change your opinion of the parties or leaders or is it pretty irrelevant compared to other issues?

The CBC At Issue panel discussed the background of the issue a bit and gave their insight. From what they say it's clear why Mulcair has the position he has and Trudeau the other. It was interesting to me to know that Mulcair's position is the one supported by the entire Quebec National Assembly, including the federalist Quebec Liberals. This is consistent with what I've read that the Clarity Act is not at all popular in Quebec. I can understand why Trudeau is taking the other side, but he badly needs to win Quebec seats in order to win this election, and I'm not sure if this is an issue enough for English Canada to offset the losses in Quebec.

The only people who care about the Clarity Act in Québec right now will vote Bloc anyway (or maybe NDP or Green). They would never vote Liberals, but for other reasons (mainly because historically, it's the party of federalism and/or "Ontario Party"). The rest don't know what the Clarity Act is or don't care nearly enough for it to affect their vote.

 

[Tabris]

The big thing we need is a voter turnout movement more then anything. When we start getting close, Liberals, NDP, and Green parties should be pushing voter turnout then conservative attacks via their campaign marketing ads.

 

[matthewwhatever]

As it stands now voter apathy is bred out of a belief a persons vote doesn't count. In a lot of areas, including mine it's true. My vote is completely dead in this system. I will continue to vote as always but something has to change and it's not surpring Harper thinks 15% of Canadians equals Canadians don't care about voting reform.

I think I said this earlier in the thread, but it bears repeating: Harper getting rid of the per-vote subsidy may be one of the worst things he'd done during his time in office. The subsidy meant that votes counted even in ridings where parties stood no chance.

Oh boy I couldn't disagree more. The Liberals stance is that they'll have an all party committee study the ideas for a different voting system, whereas the NDP stance is very clear that they will switch to a proportional voting system. In my cynical opinion, the Liberal idea of studying the issue is a way to keep the door open to not doing anything at all. It would be possible for the committee to conclude FPTP is the best, or perhaps Trudeau wouldn't agree with the committee findings. The Liberal position reminds me much too much of the plethora of undelivered 90s Liberal promises Chretien gave us, such as marijuana decriminalization. Something to try to pull in left wing votes that they'll never implement once in power.

Between the two options, the one that seems more likely to be a serious piece of the agenda likely to be implemented is the NDP option.

I don't know, the Liberals are pretty clear that they'd have a new voting system established within 18 months of taking office. Obviously promises can be broken, but that's laid out in concrete enough terms that it seems like there'd be real blowback if they didn't do it.

Probably the most interesting part of the debate in my opinion by far was when Trudeau went after Mulcair on the NDP's stance on the Clarity Act, as that's a real, significant difference between the Liberal and NDP parties and it had the two opposition leaders arguing amongst themselves instead of the usual Harper pileon.

This issue is a bit of a political inside baseball one and I'm not sure anyone outside of Ottawa and Quebec really cares about it. What did the GAFers that watched think? Did this change your opinion of the parties or leaders or is it pretty irrelevant compared to other issues?

For me, it's one of the main reasons I could never vote NDP. Separatism may be off the radar now, but it's still there -- and there's a potential if those former separatists who migrated en masse to the NDP suddenly get disillusioned. There are a few other issues I fundamentally don't like about the party, but that's always the first one that comes up for me.

 

[Azih]

I in theory prefer a ranked ballot system as well. A PR system would be odd as Canada has so many regional cleavages.

Well for one thing Libertarian, Communist, Rhinoceros, Marxist-Leninist parties have almost no chance of getting elected even in a PR system. They're just too small.

Secondly regional cleavages are exaggerated under FPTP and non PR preferential systems like AV. The mostly Western regional Reform party would never have taken over the more broad based Progressive Conservative party under PR (but did under FPTP and probably under AV as well), the completely regional BQ would never have become the Official Opposition under PR either.

FPTP and AV make regional differences seem larger than they are. Also in most cases the same person gets elected under both FPTP and AV. It's not a real change.

 

[dragonfart28]

lol

Trudeau On Bill C-51 Stance: 'Perhaps It Was Naive'
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/canadian-politics/136520-trudeau-bill-c-51-stance.html
http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/7953724

 

[MikeyB]

When I was watching the debate I kept thinking about how the different candidates would convey that they had taken a shit in your car.

Harper: The shit is not in your car. We have been clear about an established process for taking a shit in a car, and there is shit there that we placed there, but it's not our shit. The car doesn't even smell anyway.

Mulclair: I want you to know that I have taken a shit in your car. It is most definitely shit - a kind that differs from the shit of my colleague. I did it and will continue to do it. In your vehicle, no less.

May: Corn, seeds, some beans, All digested by me and clearly in your car with the windows down in a way that respects who we are and what we to be.

Trudeau: I'm proud of the smells I've made in your car. They are smells we can all experience together as we drive away into the future.

 

[gutter_trash]

I in theory prefer a ranked ballot system as well. A PR system would be odd as Canada has so many regional cleavages.

I agree,
yup, proportional representation would prop up regional factions like Reform Party, Bloc Quebecois, Social Credit, Alberta Party and zany crazies

 

[Tiktaalik]

I agree,
yup, proportional representation would prop up regional factions like Reform Party, Bloc Quebecois, Social Credit, Alberta Party and zany crazies

That's fine and that's the point. People vote for who they want to represent them in parliament, and then MPs have to collaborate and work together to pass legislation.

 

[Azih]

I agree,
yup, proportional representation would prop up regional factions like Reform Party, Bloc Quebecois, Social Credit, Alberta Party and zany crazies

Nah, the Reform Party and the BQ would never have gotten the influence or prestige that they did under PR.

Take a look at the 1993 election for some of the worst examples.

The mostly regional Reform party got 2.5 million votes and elected 52 MPs

The completely regional BQ party got 1.8 million votes and elected 54 MPs to become OFFICIAL OPPOSITION!

The broadly supported PCs got 2.1 million votes and elected.... wait for it... 2.

Regional parties would be there but they wouldn't have distorted and warped the national conversation for decades in way that was incredibly harmful to Canadian Federalism.

 

[Walpurgis]

lol

Trudeau On Bill C-51 Stance: 'Perhaps It Was Naive'
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/canadian-politics/136520-trudeau-bill-c-51-stance.html
http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/7953724

What a loser.

“C-51 became an issue about leadership as much as it was about civil liberties,” Mulcair’s advisor Brad Lavigne told The Huffington Post Canada. “Mulcair opposed the bill because it was flawed, despite its initial popularity. Trudeau [supported] the bill because it was popular, despite its flaws. That’s not leadership.

Props to Mulcair for sticking to his beliefs on a very important issue.