Zombie James
Banned
I hope Trudeau nails down elections. No more fucking campaign ads when there isn't an election on, no more fucking robocalls, and serious consequences for party's caught cheating.
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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
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I hope Trudeau nails down elections. No more fucking campaign ads when there isn't an election on, no more fucking robocalls, and serious consequences for party's caught cheating.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
I really, really want this.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
I have a suspicion this shit has been going on in my town though. It's basically NDP vs Conservative in my riding and the NDP signs are constantly torn, go missing, etc
I wonder if the conservatives money sources will slowly start to dry up like what is happening with the Alberta PC's right now if they lose this election.
I doubt it. The reason it's drying up for the PCs is because corporate donations were banned. Wildrose is outraising every other party by a lot because their fundraising base was always significantly individual donors. Just like the federal CPC. Corporate and union donations ended federally before the Liberals went out of power and the CPC made a huge advantage out of it.
Alberta NDP banning corporate donations was a great first bill. Chretien banning corporate donations was probably one of the top 5 things he did in his massive term in office. Holy shit we badly need to end corporate donations in BC at both the provincial and municipal level. The BC NDP should run on this hard the next election.
TheRealTalker
Banned
so corporate donations are banned in what provinces/territories?
When you say Chretien banning corporate donations... that was in a federal sense correct
the loop-hole being that they could fund a party provincially instead to gain favour and seats
When you say Chretien banning corporate donations... that was in a federal sense correct
the loop-hole being that they could fund a party provincially instead to gain favour and seats
killer rin
Member
This is mainly one of the things i'm excited just thining about. At this points its pretty much guarenteed that election laws are going to be tightened much more than they already are.
I can see campaign ads outside of a campaign being made illegal. We can possibly see attack ads being banned, we'll definately get a cap on spending when not in an election and in addition, the Government will get new restrictions on it so ads will be forced to be non-partisan.
If we're going to keep fixed elections, I can see us setting a fixed start date so we dont get anymore of these 3 month campaigns. Top this up with the standard Electoral Reform where we have a chance to get MMP and Online Voting, Harsher punishments for Electoral Fraud and the mirad of other chances propsed and it's hard to not be excited.
And to think, all it took was Harper to go scorch earth for this to happen.
The PC's are probably in debt still because they wasted a ton of money during the last election. Also, if I recall their money sources started to dry up like close to the end of the last election. I don't think they same thing will happen yet, but it could for the conservatives if things take a turn for the worst in the next decade or so.
I'd support most of that, but banning attack ads is going way too far. Often, there are plenty of legitimate things to run attack ads about.
It was going down, but not that much. And it was still mostly because of corporate donations swinging over to the WRP afaik. Right now in Alberta the *Liberals* are outfundraising the PCs, and that's something that probably hasn't happened for like 80 years.
LOL
Lady in the background is mentally questioning what she's seeing.
Mulcair needs to chill the fuck out on the eye-pop.
I disagree. Legitimate attack ad fodder should be covered in the press. If it's not press worthy, it's not attack worthy. Ads should focus on platform, so we don't end up with people voting against candidates, but for candidates.
Banned in Manitoba and they're banned in Quebec too. I think that's it.
Unbelievably there is no limit (!!!) to the donation amount in BC. Between 2005 and 2012 the BC Liberals collected $46 million from corporations. The New Car Dealers Association of B.C. gave over $800k over this period. No fucking wonder the provincial government is constantly putting up roadblocks to prevent transit expansion in this province.
Oil and gas companies from Alberta give more money to the BC Liberals than they do the Alberta PCs.
Corporate and union donations are banned in Alberta as of the first session of the NDP's majority right after the election.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...from-corporations-and-unions/article25074664/
killer rin
Member
This is my line of thinking. During an election, you need to be telling us why you deserve to win, not why the other guy deserves to lose. At minimum, we can legitimitize attack ads only under the most strict of criteria so that it would be unfeasable to produce, for example you can only use attack ads when everything said is the absolute truth, but best case scenario is outright ban.
Either way, attack ads being legal or not, there should definately be a requirement of Absolute Truth in political ads, something that has a punishment for lies or misquoting, but makes it available if nothing said can be disputed with pure numbers and facts
Why should the parties have to rely on the press to cover things that may be old news? Particularly since the press aren't exactly impartial either.
matthewwhatever
Member
Even if he does this, the Conservatives are going to overturn the parts they don't like the moment they get back in.
Which, of course, is an argument for never letting the Cons back in government.
Your bolded blows my mind. I guess it only got passed by Chretien because he was in a position where he'd never have to face the electorate again, but it's still unfortunate that so few provinces have followed his lead and taken corporate money out of politics. You'd think provincial Conservative parties would be all over those laws, since they have such a huge fundraising advantage.
I remember working on a project for Democracy Watch back in 2001 that involved researching corporate donations to federal parties, and the amounts were staggering even then.
Seriously. You'd think that yesterday's cross-country orgy of Conservative endorsements from the company that owns the vast majority of the media in this country would have made people a little more leery of putting even more power in the hands of the media.
The Liberals have an amazing new ad out: Different Hair, Same Platform!
TheRealTalker
Banned
I see
unfortunately the federal government can't step in and ban it universally, barring corporate funding in every area
what would be grand is if a law is passed that prevents parties that are being funded by corporations and outside groups to ever run the country
I recall Chretien banning it being a sort of "on the way out the door" legacy move.
I'm sure there must have been a bunch of fundraising guys at the Liberal Party that were furious with him for it.
It set the party back for a bit, because they simply weren't as organized around collecting small amounts from individuals in the way the Conservatives were.
gutter_trash
Banned
you guys asked for Mainstreet, but this one went unnoticed on this board
http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/canadas-choice-2015/
http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/canadas-choice-2015/
Hmm? Corporate donations are already banned at the Federal level. The Conservatives, Liberals and NDP are funded by small individual donations only.
The BC NDP is promising to ban corporate and union donations. However they have to get elected first, which seems to be awfully difficult for that hilariously terrible band of idiots.
I love ads that make me laugh. :lol
The primary reason is because the Conservatives managed to compile a huge database of potential donors that the party apparatus can access. The Liberals were behind in this, but this recent election suggests that they stepped up their Big Data game.
Most elections in the future will depend on Big Data and analytics in order to effectively target local ridings.
At this point these sort of tools (eg. NationBuilder) have become a bit commoditized and are more widely available, so I think the playing field has been levelled a lot.
TheRealTalker
Banned
so basically if I was a wealthy owner of a oil based firm and I donated a bunch of cash to the CPC instead of my orgination then it is still allowed?
what is stopping them from just cycling the sponsor money towards a individual then to the party rather then having a the corporation from donating it themselves
are there laws that address this
flying moose was a nice touch
Whoever made that site should be shot for how they did the scrolling. Its basically uncontrollable without using the scroll bar :/
Yep. You could only donate $1500 a year so wealthy people have no real advantage.
(Seriously was this the best thing Chretien ever did??)
In BC though both individuals and corporations can donate infinite amounts.
TheRealTalker
Banned
I see
a very nice rule.... BC though... can the federal government get involved there... make the cap rule apply to all provinces?
No idea but I doubt it.
Keep in mind that these days the press doesn't necessarily mean newspaper media.
I guess I'm just not really partial to campaigns being run on the other guy's faults. I'd rather the voting public knows what's coming, not what's already happened.
TheRealTalker
Banned
No. Provincial campaign finance law is a matter for the provinces.
That's still the most prominent type of media. And if we're specifically talking about TV advertising, that's the most relevant comparison.
What's already happened is often rather useful in determining what's coming.
UberTag
Member
Was that a flying moose pegasus at the end of the ad?
He's a witch!
Can you point me to an attack ad from this campaign that has been useful in determining what's coming?
Well, virtually any attack ad relating to corruption, for instance, would be a valid argument that corrupt government is likely to continue under the incumbent.
That projection is just an estimate based on general polling, and 308.com very specifically calls attention to that, since it's probably a case where that metric doesn't quite work. There's no riding polling or anything to indicate that. So it's not likely.
I doubt so. Remember when it was said Justin Trudeau was going to lose in his own riding, well that proposition fell flat on its face!
Mulcair still has the advantage.There is not enough data to determine this yet. I think he will win his riding by like 5% this time.
ZoltanXerxes
Member
Wow. An Ad I actually like.
That at least was based on riding polling, albeit what was subsequently shown to be an outlier.
Which ads relating to corruption?
Like I said, pretty much any ad on those lines is an argument for why corrupt government would be expected if the government continues. Whether the viewer agrees or not is up to them.
And that goes to the more general point that banning attack ads goes way to far into regulating the content of political debate, as opposed to setting procedural rules.
I realized my biggest frustration about this election is that the NDP and Liberal seem to refuse to work together. Even though they're different parties I feel like they should be ganging up on the Conservatives. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and all that shit.
Maybe it's because I want the Cons out so much that I don't give a shit who wins between either of them.
Maybe it's because I want the Cons out so much that I don't give a shit who wins between either of them.
I agree with you that attack ads shouldn't be banned in general, but there is a difference between attacking an actual policy and misleading Canadians by attacking a fake policy.
The Conservative brothel attack ad, for example, should be banned because it's misleading Canadians.
Agreed. Misrepresentation and false ads need to lead to penalties.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The conservatives were literally formed by two parties merging, and it's why they hold power over Canada so easily.
It's a shame the right is united while the left is split. Sometimes I think the NDP and Liberals should just merge too... though yay US-style two party system..... :/
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