Support NeoGAF

[explodet]

What's triggering this GST paranoia all of a sudden anyway?

It's either this or gossip about Kenney's sexual health.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

What's triggering this GST paranoia all of a sudden anyway?

lol no idea. Trudeau already said he wont increase the GST. Theres a lot more things he can do instead of the GST.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

What's triggering this GST paranoia all of a sudden anyway?

Lol I was concerned if that's something they'll be forced into. I'm all for Justin's promises, but I'm pretty concerned about what they'll end up seeing as the transition period progresses.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

I'm fine with this, that would be sensible. Presumably saves the health care system money and increases revenue, that would be a great tax.

A sugar tax would impact low-income families the most.

 

[Silexx]

I'm not saying it has to happen, but raising the GST would be sound and responsible economic policy. You would have the backing of every economist on that.

 

[maharg]

I'm not saying it has to happen, but raising the GST would be sound and responsible economic policy. You would have the backing of every economist on that.

It would also probably lose them the next election, so it ain't happening.

 

[Walpurgis]

Corporations are unfortunately fickle beasts.
An increase in corporate tax could cause businesses to leave and look elsewhere.

Not that I'm against subtle, marginal increases though.

Where will they go? U.S. corporate tax rate is like twice as much.

carbon tax, bigger tax bracket on the top, and a 0.25 or so increase in corporate tax? Spreading the pain should make all of this easier to swallow. And legalized pot as the spoonful of honey revenue generator to boot.

I agree. Increasing sales taxes feels dirty to me. That affects poor people and the middle class more than anyone. The government should go after rich people and rich corporations instead. I mean, if they did that and wanted to increase sales taxes because they needed to, I would be more accepting. But letting the rich guys off the hook and going straight to sales taxes? Screw that.

it is necessary to have a lower corporate tax rate than the US

Increasing corporate tax rates by 5% will still keep Canada way below the U.S.'s.

 

[Dazzler]

I must be alone in not minding a small increase in tax if it helps to fund projects and services that will benefit millions of people

 

[gutter_trash]

I'm fine with this, that would be sensible. Presumably saves the health care system money and increases revenue, that would be a great tax.

seeing how Justin and Sophie are health wise, I am pretty sure he will do it for taxing junk food

Increasing corporate tax rates by 5% will still keep Canada way below the U.S.'s.

You forgot the Provincial tax rates in addition

 

[Lexxism]

I'm not saying it has to happen, but raising the GST would be sound and responsible economic policy. You would have the backing of every economist on that.

And goodbye Liberal next election.

 

[maharg]

The real problem with raising corporate taxes is just that corporations have more flexibility than any other target of taxation to control how much they're taxed. So tax changes that induce behaviours can sometimes work on them, but any increase in taxes across the board can be defeated by putting less money into more accountant hours.

 

[Stet]

Honestly, the best possible thing the Liberals could do as soon as they have the mandate is to create an income tax calculator that used their first budget as a guideline and demonstrated exactly how your money is used in government. People have so much of a disconnect between taxes and infrastructure that they're against paying more without wondering why paying more is even helpful.

 

[Silexx]

It would also probably lose them the next election, so it ain't happening.

Not a certainty. They could most definitely sell it to Canadians especially if they include various income tax breaks, which would also be good policy that many economists tout.

While maybe not completely comparable, Chrétien campaigned on getting rid of the GST, got elected but ended up keeping it anyways. Still went on to be elected to two more terms.

 

[gutter_trash]

sales taxes impact lower income earners more than high income earners

so a GST hike would hurt poorer people more, so it is not a good way to go

 

[maharg]

Not a certainty. They could most definitely sell it to Canadians especially if they include various income tax breaks, which would also be good policy that many economists tout.

While maybe not completely comparable, Chrétien campaigned on getting rid of the GST, got elected but ended up keeping it anyways. Still went on to be elected to two more terms.

If he'd raised it I don't think he'd have won the next election.

Raising progressive income tax brackets is a much easier sell. People who don't have a lot of money jealously guard that extra 2 cents. GST may be more fair, as the economists like to tell us (though I find recent descriptions of sales tax as not being regressive very strange), but it doesn't *feel* fair and you see it every time you buy something.

And the implosion of the PC party into three separate entities had a lot more to do with Chretien winning his further mandates than his not getting rid of the GST.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

locally, Quebec Provincial Ministers have not read the party platforms of the 3 Federal parties and are completely unable to answer questions from journalists about how the Legalization of Marijuana Federally will impact the Provincial side.

LOl what a bunch of morons here locally. Unable what to make of Legal Weed

Note that all Provincial Parties have low favoriblity ratings here.

Provinces can be dumb often at times.

Trudeau said he'd base it off the Colorado model yesterday, which makes zero sense. I thought it would be up to provinces to regulate it. Ontario could use the money.

 

[Willectro]

Liberals still aren't beating on the wealthy enough yet. We need to bleed them more before we consider anything else regarding taxation.

Corporations (the likes of Rogers immediately comes to mind) need to be bled a bit more too. They use our infrastructure (don't get it twisted, it's ours), our country, and our citizens to make crazy profits.

 

[gutter_trash]

Trudeau said he'd base it off the Colorado model yesterday, which makes zero sense. I thought it would be up to provinces to regulate it. Ontario could use the money.

Provinces are too clueless

 

[Holmes]

sales taxes impact lower income earners more than high income earners

so a GST hike would hurt poorer people more, so it is not a good way to go

Agreed.

 

[Stet]

Liberals still aren't beating on the wealthy enough yet. We need to bleed them more before we consider anything else regarding taxation.

Corporations (the likes of Rogers immediately comes to mind) need to be bled a bit more too. They use our infrastructure (don't get it twisted, it's ours), our country, and our citizens to make crazy profits.

Be the first to close off-shore loopholes. Godlike.

 

[Tiktaalik]

The GST decrease was always intended as a poison pill. It decreased the scope of government permanently (the conservatives real goal) unless a future government was willing to raise taxes back, either via sales or income tax.

The point of the Conservatives' proposed $5k increase to the TFSA contributions to $10k was the same. Defund future governments and force them to be smaller.

 

[Pedrito]

Trudeau said he'd base it off the Colorado model yesterday, which makes zero sense. I thought it would be up to provinces to regulate it. Ontario could use the money.

Constitutionnaly, it's up to the provinces.
I expect many governments won't be too thrilled about starting to sell pot, even with the new revenues.

 

[AuthenticM]

I knew Gutter wouldn't be able to stay away from this thread. XD

 

[Azih]

Constitutionnaly, it's up to the provinces.
I expect many governments won't be too thrilled about starting to sell pot, even with the new revenues.

Hah. They'll throw up their hands and so "OH WELL, THAT JUSTIN WHAT A SCAMP" and start setting up Pot control boards of <insert province here> to start raking in that sweet sweet revenue.

 

[Perfect Blue]

GST, HST, etc. any other kind of VAT is a regressive tax and wouldn't make much sense raising any of that when his entire campaign is about empowering the middle class and giving us more money.

 

[explodet]

The point of the Conservatives' proposed $5k increase to the TFSA contributions to $10k was the same. Defund future governments and force them to be smaller.

Proposed nothing, the Tories implemented that as soon as they could, the yearly TFSA contribution is $10K now.

The Liberals promised to roll that back to the previous amount. When that is, who knows.
I'm cool with it because I don't have that kind of cash yet to save in a TFSA, I've still got RRSPs to contribute to.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Liberals still aren't beating on the wealthy enough yet. We need to bleed them more before we consider anything else regarding taxation.

Corporations (the likes of Rogers immediately comes to mind) need to be bled a bit more too. They use our infrastructure (don't get it twisted, it's ours), our country, and our citizens to make crazy profits.

TBH you come off as more concerned with taxing the rich then actually building anything or helping anyone, and it's not a good vibe IMO.

Anyway, I think the best thing would be a carbon tax to generate revenue and apply market pressure towards reducing emissions, and a increase in the GST (alongside an increase in the GST rebate to offset the regressive nature of sales taxes.)

Also, I don't know how I feel about a "unhealthy food" tax. I don't think it'd actually do much to make people healthier. Really the most important thing there would be to educate people about nutrition.

 

[killer rin]

don't forget that Provinces also have their own

But don't individual states in the USA have their own as well? As long as we keep the federal portion lower than the USA federal, then its up to the provinces to match or be less than the States

Probably a sugar tax or a fast food tax

If we do this, why dont we go a step further and have a "Healthy Body Tax Credit"... something where every year you get a checkup around tax time and your doctor gives you a form saying if you qualify or not... something to try and incentivize staying healthy so that we can reduce strain on healthcare costs

 

[Tiktaalik]

If Trudeau and other provinces were to follow BC's carbon tax model, then you tax carbon, but direct the entirety of the revenue towards tax cuts. This way polluters pay, but people who change their lifestyles receive the positive benefits of a reduced tax bill.

The result has been that BC has the lowest income tax, one of the lowest corporate tax rates, dropped fuel use by 16% and all the while its GDP outperformed the rest of Canada.

BC's carbon tax has been a massive success in all areas. Bafflingly no one else in Canada suggests copying it.

 

[Silexx]

sales taxes impact lower income earners more than high income earners

so a GST hike would hurt poorer people more, so it is not a good way to go

That's what the GST rebate is for, to offset the regressive effects of a consumption tax. Consistent evidence shows that the best way to raise revenue (especially to pay for social programs) without adversely affecting the economy is through a consumption tax.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

But don't individual states in the USA have their own as well? As long as we keep the federal portion lower than the USA federal, then its up to the provinces to match or be less than the States


If we do this, why dont we go a step further and have a "Healthy Body Tax Credit"... something where every year you get a checkup around tax time and your doctor gives you a form saying if you qualify or not... something to try and incentivize staying healthy so that we can reduce strain on healthcare costs

Well that seems complicated, we could subsidize healthy food.

 

[gutter_trash]

That's what the GST rebate is for, to offset the regressive effects of a consumption tax. Consistent evidence shows that the best way to raise revenue (especially to pay for social programs) without adversely affecting the economy is through a consumption tax.

I never heard of it, I must have lived under a rock. But I am sure that the rebate does not apply to me LOL

 

[Tiktaalik]

That's what the GST rebate is for, to offset the regressive effects of a consumption tax. Consistent evidence shows that the best way to raise revenue (especially to pay for social programs) without adversely affecting the economy is through a consumption tax.

Yes this is the best feature of consumption taxes. They are hard to avoid, so they are great at generating revenue. In contrast when one increases taxes on the 1% and corporations, they just shift things around to limit their exposure. Not to say that we shouldn't increase taxes on the 1%, but one has to scale back expectations of revenue generated.

 

[maharg]

But don't individual states in the USA have their own as well? As long as we keep the federal portion lower than the USA federal, then its up to the provinces to match or be less than the States

Every American corporation has its head office in a PO Box in Delaware. Guess why.

 

[Silexx]

If Trudeau and other provinces were to follow BC's carbon tax model, then you tax carbon, but direct the entirety of the revenue towards tax cuts. This way polluters pay, but people who change their lifestyles receive the positive benefits of a reduced tax bill.

The result has been that BC has the lowest income tax, one of the lowest corporate tax rates, dropped fuel use by 16% and all the while its GDP outperformed the rest of Canada.

BC's carbon tax has been a massive success in all areas. Bafflingly no one else in Canada suggests copying it.

Yep. Consumption taxes are regressive, that's true enough. But you can offset that with direct transfers to low-income households. They are the most efficient way to generate tax revenue and make for pretty effective 'nudge' policy.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

If Trudeau and other provinces were to follow BC's carbon tax model, then you tax carbon, but direct the entirety of the revenue towards tax cuts. This way polluters pay, but people who change their lifestyles receive the positive benefits of a reduced tax bill.

The result has been that BC has the lowest income tax, one of the lowest corporate tax rates, dropped fuel use by 16% and all the while its GDP outperformed the rest of Canada.

BC's carbon tax has been a massive success in all areas. Bafflingly no one else in Canada suggests copying it.

I'm not saying a carbon tax is bad, but BC's booming economy can largely be attributed to its booming population growth.

Per capita BC's GDP growth has been underperforming.

 

[gutter_trash]

I knew Gutter wouldn't be able to stay away from this thread. XD

It's too much fun...

And it will get funner with legal weed

 

[Perfect Blue]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/fashion/justin-trudeau-takes-an-image-and-wins-with-it.html

lmao god damn. Article about hair in the election haha.

 

[killer rin]

Well that seems complicated, we could subsidize healthy food.

Now that you mention that, how about instead we do a tax on junk food (chips, cookies, chocolate, pop, ect) and Unhealthy forms of Fast Food, then we use that revenue generated to subsidize healthy food.

 

[Walpurgis]

Yep. Consumption taxes are regressive, that's true enough. But you can offset that with direct transfers to low-income households. They are the most efficient way to generate tax revenue and make for pretty effective 'nudge' policy.

If they increase sales tax, they better give us a guaranteed livable income. If they do what Tiktaalik said with the carbon tax, I think it should be possible. PEI expressed interest in doing a pilot project last year. The Premier said he'd wait for Trudeau.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Proposed nothing, the Tories implemented that as soon as they could, the yearly TFSA contribution is $10K now.

The Liberals promised to roll that back to the previous amount. When that is, who knows.
I'm cool with it because I don't have that kind of cash yet to save in a TFSA, I've still got RRSPs to contribute to.

Yeah you're right sorry. I'm already thinking about it in the past tense because both the Liberals and NDP were so clear that it'd roll back to $5k as soon as they got in office.

 

[Silexx]

If they increase sales tax, they better give us a guaranteed livable income. If they do what Tiktaalik said with the carbon tax, I think it should be possible. PEI expressed interest in doing a pilot project last year. The Premier said he'd wait for Trudeau.

I would only advocate raising the GST back to its previous 7%, up from the current 5%. I don't think it would necessitate something as drastic as implementing a guaranteed livable wage.

Which is not to say that guaranteed livable income isn't worth looking into though! I just don't think that the two issues must necessarily go hand-in-hand with each other.

 

[explodet]

Yeah you're right sorry. I'm already thinking about it in the past tense because both the Liberals and NDP were so clear that it'd roll back to $5k as soon as they got in office.

Think nothing of it.

I think the easiest thing for the next gov't to do is just have the contribution limit for next year go back to $5k/$5.5k 'cause reverting it immediately would just be more confusing.

 

[Tiktaalik]

I'm not saying a carbon tax is bad, but BC's booming economy can largely be attributed to its booming population growth.

Per capita BC's GDP growth has been underperforming.

Underperforming compared to who?

Since 2008 BC per-capita GDP > Canada
1.75% > 1.28%

http://www.economist.com/blogs/americasview/2014/07/british-columbias-carbon-tax

 

[Perfect Blue]

Apparently there's a petition for Elizabeth May to be the Minister of the Environment.

Hells naw

 

[Tiktaalik]

Think nothing of it.

I think the easiest thing for the next gov't to do is just have the contribution limit for next year go back to $5k/$5.5k 'cause reverting it immediately would just be more confusing.

Yeah this year is going to have to be grandfathered otherwise it's going to be a confusing nightmare.

 

[firehawk12]

I wouldn't mind an introduction of a luxury tax as part of a consumption tax increase. No reason why they couldn't tax stuff like video games more than say a bag of oranges or whatever.

 

[gutter_trash]

I wouldn't mind an introduction of a luxury tax as part of a consumption tax increase. No reason why they couldn't tax stuff like video games more than say a bag of oranges or whatever.

 

[Walpurgis]

I wouldn't mind an introduction of a luxury tax as part of a consumption tax increase. No reason why they couldn't tax stuff like video games more than say a bag of oranges or whatever.

Traitor. I'm telling the Canadian gaming deals thread.

 

[Holmes]

Apparently there's a petition for Elizabeth May to be the Minister of the Environment.

Hells naw

Agreed.