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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015

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Kenney will be rejected in Quebec because he is a virgin.

How can he peddled conservative family values if you have no aspirations of making one?

While Justin and Sophie have a full fledged family with three young children at 24 Sussex dr

Kenney will lose the ''family'' arguments big time.
 

Pedrito

Member
What, you think Harper has moderation or gravitas, either? My point was that as unsexy, unserious and immoderate as Harper is, Kenney is infinitely worse in every respect.

Like him or not, Harper has quite a bit of moderation. He's always been cool as cucumber and has managed to keep the crazies in check for the most part.

But yeah, Kenney is probably worse. Althought we've seen on election night that he probably has self-awareness in regards to his party.
And I'm sure he's a total catch on those christian chubby dating website.
 
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-stands-by-refugees-promise-in-exclusive-interview-1.2621705

Looks like they are moving to bring in those 25000 refugees pretty quickly

I didn't expect them to move so quickly on these issues, but maybe I've just become cynical

When asked about the refugees commitment, Trudeau said “that’s something we’re getting cracking on right away,” adding that he has already met with the Clerk of the Privy Council and the Governor General about implementing his platform.

Wow, so starting November we will pull in 15,000. That would be an amazing thing to show change is real

I would say that this is thread-worthy, but we have really been spamming them this week :p
 

pr0cs

Member
Well excuse us for not having a big dinosaur graveyard in our backyard.

If we did, I'm sure we'd be just as hard working as our Albertan friends.
I'm sure if that was the case Alberta would have even less say in political equality than they do now

In 50 years when oil is no longer a viable fuel source Alberta's going to be very thankful those transfer payments exist.
Most of the people who want to separate now will be dead by then anyway so the point is moot.
 

Omaer

Banned
anigif_optimized-31047-1439235851-15.gif

This brilliant I want to make this an avatar for myself. But gaf doesn't allow gifs for avis unfortunately. Regardless I will be saving this one. Bravo.
 
Albertans and Saskatchewans complaining about doing their part have become the annoying whiny provinces

Quebec has calmed down for quite some time as that whiny demanding province.

But Albertans have brought up the anoyingness way high, even Sakatchewan is jumping on the Tag Team
 

lacinius

Member
I did live in BC for 21 years. I know for a fact that they're just as sick of paying equalization payments to eastern Canada as Alberta is.
I also know that most people from BC want nothing to do with becoming American. Can't blame them for that.


That's a rather divisive way of looking at it considering equalisation payments come out of general revenue, and everyone that pays tax in Canada contributes to general revenue as a whole. The tax being paid by someone in Nova Scotia is just as likely to be used for equalisation payments as someone in British Columbia. Or to look at that another way... a wealthy person in Nova Scotia actually pays more into the equalisation payments than someone that does not earn as much in British Columbia, but because of the greater population of British Columbia, their net contribution is obviously going to be much greater into the program.

Perhaps many in Alberta and BC have forgotten the time when they were on the receiving end of those same payments. I'm sure everyone is always sick of paying taxes, but what keeps a very large and diverse country like Canada strong are those programs that help lift everyone.


** edit to add my thread title contribution: OT| Canadian PoliGAF - Nobody Believes You
 
Okay, so since we seem to be talking about Equalization Payments in relation to the provinces, I have a question. I'm completely ignorant on the topic, so if someone could point me in any direction that would be helpful. So my question is, Everyone complains about the Atlantic Provinces taking out money from it, but how is it that the Atlantic Provinces came to rely on the payments as they have? and I guess, why hasn't the region been able to I guess, keep up with the rest of the country?... Is it lack of people? Resources?
 
D

Deleted member 126221

Unconfirmed Member
Better to close it and create a new thread, imho. Time to shelve that period of Canadian politics.

Eh, I think I'll miss getting angry at my computer screen and arguing in vain for pages and pages!

Watch out in the new thread. I don't think I'll visit it often, but if you say "Québec" 3 times, I might appear out of nowhere.
 

Parch

Member
I'm sure if that was the case Alberta would have even less say in political equality than they do now
Most of the people who want to separate now will be dead by then anyway so the point is moot.
Western separation has been dead for awhile now. There was some research poll about 10 years ago asking western Canadians their interest in exploring separation. It was something like 40% who said yes, so I imagine there still some talk about it. The little I know about the Cascadia plan was that it was an American idea that BC wanted nothing to do with. I don't know how serious that got.

I just suggested a rebirth based on how similar this election has divided the country like the 80's and 90's. I obviously don't speak for everybody, but Alberta basically thought Harper went batshit insane when he started acting like an American. They were ripe for change. Alberta already chose NDP provincially and them being the opposition party, Alberta was completely onboard with the NDP being the real change federally.

Then the NDP blew it and polls flipped and Albertans are thinking what now? Some go back to voting Conservatives because it'll be a cold day in hell when they vote Liberal. In the west there's a few NDP seats and few Liberal because they still wanted Harper out, but the big picture ended up being that it didn't matter how western Canada voted. Every single vote from the 4 western provinces didn't mean a damn thing because Quebec and Ontario had already decided that it was going to be a Liberal government.

So here we go again. It's the west having no say and eastern Canada picking a Liberal majority to once again decide how they're going to spend western wealth. It's a situation where I can see western separation rising from the ashes. For now it's hope for the best because it can't possibly be worse than the Harper shitfest, but the west remains highly skeptical that the Liberals will fairly spread the wealth. If not, in a few years that 50% + 1 for western separation might be a lot closer that people think.
 

SRG01

Member
Okay, so since we seem to be talking about Equalization Payments in relation to the provinces, I have a question. I'm completely ignorant on the topic, so if someone could point me in any direction that would be helpful. So my question is, Everyone complains about the Atlantic Provinces taking out money from it, but how is it that the Atlantic Provinces came to rely on the payments as they have? and I guess, why hasn't the region been able to I guess, keep up with the rest of the country?... Is it lack of people? Resources?

It's the combination of seasonal employment and the lack of technology/finance (ie. white collar) sectors. There are a lot of ports on the East Coast, but they don't contribute that much in terms of jobs and economic growth.

I believe they are upgrading a couple of refineries out there, so that may contribute to the economy to some degree.

edit: This reminds me too: St. John's actually has a pretty good startup scene relative to its size.
 
Without 24 seats from Manitoba and BC it would've been a Liberal minority.

Bible thumper provinces thinking they represent the West lol. BC has more in common with Ontario than Saskatchewan, like seriously.
 
Newfoundland, P-E-I, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec, Ontario, Nunavut, N-W-T, Yukon, the urban portions of Manitoba and BC decided to jump on the train.

If Albertans and Sakatchweans stubbornly refuse to jump on the train because their are stubbornly too Conservative for the rest of Canada, then maybe it's the ''West'' that is the problem because the rest of the country has decided to unite on the train
 

Walpurgis

Banned
Modern dance hater and former bully Krista Erickson wrote a scathing piece on Kory Teneycke and Sun News Network that was rapidly deleted.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...tives/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca#.Vij1Ois0f4z

stolen from Reddit

Even the apolitical was viewed through a partisan lens. Case in point, the network’s coverage of the RCMP’s 2012 investigation of the suicide of 15-year-old Amanda Todd. Teneycke told producers that Sun News was not going to continue to cover the story and, “help create another dead celebrity teen,” while assisting the Official Opposition with its proposed anti-bullying legislation.
What the f?
 

Azih

Member
Western seperatism was always overblown as the Reform got way more seats than they really should have gotten as their support was regionally concentrated which gives outsized results. I mean both the PCs and Reform got 2 million plus votes in 1993 but Reform won like 54 seats while the PCs won 2.

Our system exaggerates regional discontent to an absurd degree. And regional partys are the only way to effectively vote against a big tent party. It's unhealthy.
 

Parch

Member
Okay, so since we seem to be talking about Equalization Payments in relation to the provinces, I have a question. I'm completely ignorant on the topic, so if someone could point me in any direction that would be helpful. So my question is, Everyone complains about the Atlantic Provinces taking out money from it, but how is it that the Atlantic Provinces came to rely on the payments as they have?
Just looking at Wiki's page about Equalization Payments in Canada, it's Quebec and Ontario that BY FAR receive the most equalization payments. The maritime provinces not so much.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
I don't know why people care so much about equalisation payments. Don't you want other parts of this country to share the wealth? We are a country after all.
 
"God damn us Westerns are so... exceptional! We're like super humans! Look at all this oil and potash I manufactured in my house. Why can't Easterners just get a job? We should separate the West and create a Conservative fiefdom! Manitoba and BC, you guys comin'?? Guys?? Guys??"


Come back to down to reality Parch, your numbers are from the '70s.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Is this shit really necessary? You're all just feeding into the worst stereotypes of both people from the west and east.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Just looking at Wiki's page about Equalization Payments in Canada, it's Quebec and Ontario that BY FAR receive the most equalization payments. The maritime provinces not so much.

Ontario is also by far the greatest contributor to the payments as well.

DEXGuH5.png


I don't know why people care so much about equalisation payments. Don't you want other parts of this country to share the wealth? We are a country after all.

It's literally the same thing as rich people complaining that their money is going to help poor people
 
Okay, so since we seem to be talking about Equalization Payments in relation to the provinces, I have a question. I'm completely ignorant on the topic, so if someone could point me in any direction that would be helpful. So my question is, Everyone complains about the Atlantic Provinces taking out money from it, but how is it that the Atlantic Provinces came to rely on the payments as they have? and I guess, why hasn't the region been able to I guess, keep up with the rest of the country?... Is it lack of people? Resources?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-the-maritimes-became-canadas-incredible-shrinking-region/article23554298/

This is the meat of it honestly -- it's a problem long in the making:

How did it come to this? The simple answer is, the Maritime provinces were betrayed by the rest of Canada.

Nova Scotia and New Brunswick entered Confederation in 1867 (PEI held out until 1873) reluctantly, and with good reason. At the time, the region enjoyed a thriving economy built on trade, mostly with the U.S. Northeast.

There were steel mills, cotton mills, sugar refineries, glassworks – a quarter of the new Dominion’s manufacturing capacity. Manufacturing was financed locally, through lenders that evolved into the Royal Bank and Scotiabank. Maritimers’ shipbuilding prowess was world-renowned. Halifax was a major hub on the Atlantic seaboard.

Then, in 1879, the federal government imposed the National Policy, creating a tariff wall with the United States in order to protect Central Canadian manufacturing. Suddenly, the nearest market for Maritime goods was Montreal, 1,200 kilometres to the west.

Cut off from American markets and far removed from the Canadian heartland, the Maritimes withered into a mostly rural economy dependent on forestry and the fishery, which offered only seasonal work. To protect what jobs were left, governments began throwing good money after bad, propping up money-losing coal mines, paper mills, tourist resorts.

“The place hasn’t recovered since,” says Mr. Navarro-Génie. A political scientist, he came east just 18 months ago, after years of teaching in Alberta and a stint at the Frontier Centre in Calgary, another conservative think tank. (As we talk in his suburban office, we both marvel at Halifax’s towering snowbanks – although he loves his new home, Mr. Navarro-Génie, born in Nicaragua, says the winter wind “has a cruel soul.”)

In the 1950s, the federal government started pouring money into the region through transfer payments that eventually became the equalization program, along with dubious economic-development schemes. Not only did those schemes mostly fail; they are blamed for encouraging the attitude that government subsidies are better than private investment at creating jobs.

Essentially the feds prioritized Quebec and Ontario above all else and screwed over Atlantic Canada a long time ago, and the region is now dependent on these transfers, while population continues to hollow out to the west.

Another problem is that Atlantic Canada is still stubbornly rural. Nearly 50% of the population of NS lives in rural areas and small communities. Halifax is genuinely a booming city (due in part to being one of the few good ocean facing port cities Canada has) and could be a huge focus of urbanization if the will was there. Unfortunately you'll never see it happen since no NS government will ever be elected without bending over backwards to prop up Port Hawkesbury or Yarmouth.

It's the combination of seasonal employment and the lack of technology/finance (ie. white collar) sectors. There are a lot of ports on the East Coast, but they don't contribute that much in terms of jobs and economic growth.

This is more EI related and not equalization, but it's effectively federal transfer as well.

Seasonal jobs exist for two reasons:

  1. Historic fishing communities being decimated by rules to curtail overfishing. Now when they can fish, it's only a small window of the year, only a small quota, and there really isn't enough money to go around from this anymore. These rules were put in place for great reasons, and this is one of the reasons I think EI's effect on seasonal work should have been untouchable.
  2. Tourism. Nobody in their right mind visits Atlantic Canada in winter. Tourism is a huge part of PEI's economy, largely because that's all they have left. That and farming.
 

Parch

Member
Frankly, it's now much more Urban vs. Rural than East vs. West.
Quebec is a lot more rural than Alberta. The maritimes too.
Montreal is the only Quebec city larger than Edmonton and Calgary. Just how many farmers do you think there are? The overwhelming majority of Albertans live in urban centers. It's a huge percentage of the Alberta population that are urban.
There is a much larger percentage of Quebecois that are small town or rural. A lot more than Alberta.

Alberta also has a much higher percentage that consider themselves non-religious compared to Quebec.
 
watching this got me excited

if we decided to go back and develop a new modern Avro Arrow Fighter Jet instead of purchasing the F 35

the NDP wanted to invest in our AreoSpace industry and the Liberals want to scrap the F 35

If only we decide to make Super Sonic jets again
 

Willectro

Banned
I don't mean today, but soon it would be nice to at least get ballpark timelines for some of these campaign promises. I'm hoping certain things are higher on the priority list than others.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
You're right. That chart says a lot.

Of all the provinces that should be complaining about transfer payments, it should be Ontario since they have been the greatest contributor to it since forever. When it became eligible as a "have not" province due to the economic downturn of 2009, the rules were changed so that they received less than they would have under previous rules.

Of course, one of the biggest whiners of transfer payments prior to 2009 was Ontario itself, so let that be a lesson to those who are are "haves" that things can change at the drop of a hat and suddenly you might need the help.

I don't mean today, but soon it would be nice to at least get ballpark timelines for some of these campaign promises. I'm hoping certain things are higher on the priority list than others.

It's been three days and they've already started overhauling C-51, making plans to get those 25000 refugees in, stopped our bombing missions in the middle east, and are looking at repairing the damage done to federal science funding. I mean, I don't know how you can complain about this.
 
I really wish the only politically acceptable public works projects weren't things used to kill people.

yeah but unfortunately in this diplomatic world people need to be in tip top shape

I am saying we should do this for a more job growth strategy

plus NASA laid off a bunch of people in the last few years.... a ton of Canadians are part of those layoffs

instead of having SpaceX swoop every talented person away we can make Canada a destination for some of these engineers
 

Silexx

Member
I don't mean today, but soon it would be nice to at least get ballpark timelines for some of these campaign promises. I'm hoping certain things are higher on the priority list than others.

Well, Liberals have now announced that they expect to have passed electoral reform by May 19, 2017.
 
Ontario is also by far the greatest contributor to the payments as well.

DEXGuH5.png




It's literally the same thing as rich people complaining that their money is going to help poor people

..Wow, whats going on with Quebec there? I thought they would be at least in the positive.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-the-maritimes-became-canadas-incredible-shrinking-region/article23554298/

This is the meat of it honestly -- it's a problem long in the making:



Essentially the feds prioritized Quebec and Ontario above all else and screwed over Atlantic Canada a long time ago, and the region is now dependent on these transfers, while population continues to hollow out to the west.

Another problem is that Atlantic Canada is still stubbornly rural. Nearly 50% of the population of NS lives in rural areas and small communities. Halifax is genuinely a booming city (due in part to being one of the few good ocean facing port cities Canada has) and could be a huge focus of urbanization if the will was there. Unfortunately you'll never see it happen since no NS government will ever be elected without bending over backwards to prop up Port Hawkesbury or Yarmouth.



This is more EI related and not equalization, but it's effectively federal transfer as well.

Seasonal jobs exist for two reasons:

  1. Historic fishing communities being decimated by rules to curtail overfishing. Now when they can fish, it's only a small window of the year, only a small quota, and there really isn't enough money to go around from this anymore. These rules were put in place for great reasons, and this is one of the reasons I think EI's effect on seasonal work should have been untouchable.
  2. Tourism. Nobody in their right mind visits Atlantic Canada in winter. Tourism is a huge part of PEI's economy, largely because that's all they have left. That and farming.

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the read I'll check it out... though from your quote it sounds like a terrible situation all around.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
yeah but unfortunately in this diplomatic world people need to be in tip top shape

I am saying we should do this for a more job growth strategy

plus NASA laid off a bunch of people in the last few years.... a ton of Canadians are part of those layoffs

instead of having SpaceX swoop every talented person away we can make Canada a destination for some of these engineers

Canada should build the world's first space elevator!
 
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