Support NeoGAF

[superdeluxe]

I like this Prime Minister Already:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/elec...s-face-if-he-becomes-prime-minister-1.2607205

TORONTO -- Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau says he would tell off Russian President Vladimir Putin "directly to his face" if he becomes prime minister.

Trudeau accuses Putin of "being dangerous" in eastern Europe, "irresponsible and harmful" in the Middle East and "unduly provocative" in the Arctic.

"Canada needs to continue to stand strongly with the international community pushing back against the bully that is Vladimir Putin," he said during a campaign stop in Toronto.
Related Stories

"If I have the opportunity in the coming months to meet with Vladimir Putin, I will tell him all this directly to his face because we need to ensure that Canada continues to stand strongly for peace and justice in the world."

 

[PumpkinSpice]

I like this Prime Minister Already:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/elec...s-face-if-he-becomes-prime-minister-1.2607205

Come on that's never going to happen.

 

[Minus_Me]

Like Putin would even care lol

 

[pr0cs]

Really though, what did Cretien or Martin do to Alberta? (not the West cuz seriously).

Chretien was involved with the NEP and had a lot of 'friction' with the provincial politicians that at that time were quite popular.
Martin.. Nothing that I can think of, he was pretty much forgettable.

 

[Divvy]

Putin would be jealous of the hair

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Alright, serious question:

which provinces would oppose the closing of the Senate?

It would have to be put to referendum. The current Ontario and Quebec governments would obfuscate abolition no matter what, even if their people were for abolition.

 

[lacinius]

I didn't look very hard but I couldn't find any data suggesting Alberta was ever accepting payments beyond what they put in.
I think most people in the Prairies are just tired of putting in more than their fair share but having their government being forced on them from the east.

Mention the NEP anywhere in the west and you're likely to get lynched.

When the first form of the equalisation payment program started in 1957, Alberta was on the receiving end from 1957 to 1965, nevermind all the help the province received prior to 1947 thanks to the "dust bowl" days and all that. The prairies don't put in more than their fair share, the payments are made from the federal taxes that everyone in Canada pays.

Part of the myth and general attitude toward the NEP was born out of 40 years of Alberta Conservative Government rule, as well as other political entities that latched onto it as a way to provide focus for whatever doctrine they want to spin or sell.

 

[Holmes]

both Premiers of Ontario and Quebec see it a gigantic barganing chip.

both say "wanna reform the Senate? for losing such a huge amount of senators, we will ask for this, that, this, that, this that"

It's sad that my Liberal Premier in Ontario and the Liberal Premier in Quebec think of themselves first instead of the interests and demands of their own constituents.

 

[Azih]

The premiers would flip if it became a campaign issue for them. Trudeau has no interest in pursuing the idea so the useless wing of the Hill is in no danger.

 

[matthewwhatever]

It could pretty much just be Ontario and a no-go, right?

It could be any province and be a no-go -- there's no abolishing the Senate unless all the provinces agree to it. At least the entire eastern half of the country is opposed (only Wall spoke in favour of it, in fact), so it's not going anywhere.

Which reminds me: one of the first things Trudeau will have to do is put his Senate reforms in place. None of his legislation passes through Parliament until it gets Senate approval, and there, what, two dozen seats to fill? He has to implement his non-partisan system right away, and it has to also yield enough like-minded people that he's able to get his legislation passed. It'll be interesting to see what he does, because he'll have to do it really soon.

 

[maharg]

He also technically doesn't have a government in the senate, and it's not clear how his idea for a non-partisan appointment process would even generate one.

 

[Stet]

Reform the senate, but don't abolish it. It's not completely useless, it's just based on an outdated system of peerage.

 

[CitizenVectron]

Reform the senate, but don't abolish it. It's not completely useless, it's just based on an outdated system of peerage.

Well it is kind of useless in that Parliament can also do everything it does, including oversight of bills. A possible solution would be to actually give it more power to obstruct Parliament, but then make the appointment process more like the Supreme Court: Let the PM choose, but from a small selection of candidates chosen by expert committees. For example, say that there needs to be a certain number from each region/province, and also certain fields of expertise (business, law, science, farming, industry, etc).

 

[Stet]

Well it is kind of useless in that Parliament can also do everything it does, including oversight of bills. A possible solution would be to actually give it more power to obstruct Parliament, but then make the appointment process more like the Supreme Court: Let the PM choose, but from a small selection of candidates chosen by expert committees. For example, say that there needs to be a certain number from each region/province, and also certain fields of expertise (business, law, science, farming, industry, etc).

It's a check and balance ON Parliament, so I don't see how Parliament can fill that role on its own. I don't mind the Supreme Court analogy for appointments though.

 

[CitizenVectron]

It's a check and balance ON Parliament, so I don't see how Parliament can fill that role on its own. I don't mind the Supreme Court analogy for appointments though.

Except it's not that any more. When has the Senate ever stopped a bill from passing? The most they can do is delay for a little bit. They shouldn't be able to stop bills, simply because they are unelected and unaccountable.

 

[Holmes]

If Trudeau wants to fill those Senate vacancies and wants to seem bi(tri)partisan, why not appoint some New Democrats that are most likely to win their seats back in 2019 if they run again? Harris, Leslie, Stoffer, Nash, Cash...

Many, if not all, would decline though. Would be devious though.

 

[Sean C]

When has the Senate ever stopped a bill from passing?

They rather famously blocked Mulroney's abortion law back in 1990 or so. The resulting legal void has endured ever since, because nobody wants to touch that issue with a ten-foot pole.

On the subject of the Senate, I'll be interested to see how the relationship between the Senate and the government works going forward. Trudeau is going to be the first PM not to appoint a Leader of the Government in the Senate, from the sound of it, meaning the senatorial Liberals are going to be expected to continue functioning as a quasi-independent group (who nevertheless, one expects, will be supporting the government's agenda).

Similarly, it will be interesting to see how many of Trudeau's new appointees joint the "Independent Liberal" caucus and how many sit as independents (crossbenchers, to use the British House of Lords term). It's funny, though, that due to Harper's intransigence on this file there are 22 seats nice and vacant for the new prime minister to fill. If the Tories had filled those seats they'd have had a supermajority in the chamber for the foreseeable future.

 

[CitizenVectron]

They rather famously blocked Mulroney's abortion law back in 1990 or so. The resulting legal void has endured ever since, because nobody wants to touch that issue with a ten-foot pole.

On the subject of the Senate, I'll be interested to see how the relationship between the Senate and the government works going forward. Trudeau is going to be the first PM not to appoint a Leader of the Government in the Senate, from the sound of it, meaning the senatorial Liberals are going to be expected to continue functioning as a quasi-independent group (who nevertheless, one expects, will be supporting the government's agenda).

Similarly, it will be interesting to see how many of Trudeau's new appointees joint the "Independent Liberal" caucus and how many sit as independents (crossbenchers, to use the British House of Lords term). It's funny, though, that due to Harper's intransigence on this file there are 22 seats nice and vacant for the new prime minister to fill. If the Tories had filled those seats they'd have had a supermajority in the chamber for the foreseeable future.

True (on them stopping it in 1990, as well as once earlier in the 40s), but in that case Mulroney chose not to reintroduce. If he had, he could have forced it through the second time.

 

[DreamMachine]

They rather famously blocked Mulroney's abortion law back in 1990 or so. The resulting legal void has endured ever since, because nobody wants to touch that issue with a ten-foot pole.

On the subject of the Senate, I'll be interested to see how the relationship between the Senate and the government works going forward. Trudeau is going to be the first PM not to appoint a Leader of the Government in the Senate, from the sound of it, meaning the senatorial Liberals are going to be expected to continue functioning as a quasi-independent group (who nevertheless, one expects, will be supporting the government's agenda).

Similarly, it will be interesting to see how many of Trudeau's new appointees joint the "Independent Liberal" caucus and how many sit as independents (crossbenchers, to use the British House of Lords term). It's funny, though, that due to Harper's intransigence on this file there are 22 seats nice and vacant for the new prime minister to fill. If the Tories had filled those seats they'd have had a supermajority in the chamber for the foreseeable future.

I think that there is a strong possibility that the conservative senate will not pass marijuana legalization..

 

[subrock]

I think that there is a strong possibility that the conservative senate will not pass marijuana legalization..

you're being paranoid

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

you're being paranoid

Pot will do that to you.

 

[Tabris]

Can't Trudeau just appoint an equal number of Liberals senate members?

 

[killer rin]

Can't Trudeau just appoint an equal number of Liberals senate members?

Honestly, I could see that being the absolute first thing he does after being sworn in. He was against attrition method of getting rid of the senate anyways

 

[maharg]

Can't Trudeau just appoint an equal number of Liberals senate members?

Honestly, I could see that being the absolute first thing he does after being sworn in. He was against attrition method of getting rid of the senate anyways

He's also against appointing partisans to the senate, so that'd be his first renege on a promise. Believe it or not, Trudeau's approach to the senate has its own constitutional issues.

 

[whitehawk]

Oops lol

Spoiler

hoverhand

https://youtu.be/BdQzV6Df_BA?t=18s

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Oops lol

Spoiler

hoverhand

https://youtu.be/BdQzV6Df_BA?t=18s

Well, he had to slip up at some point.

 

[Pedrito]

Well, he had to slip up at some point.

And just like that, he redeems himself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ypraEielc

 

[Stumpokapow]

I think that there is a strong possibility that the conservative senate will not pass marijuana legalization..

There are 22 vacant Senate seats and the Liberals need 19 more senators to have a majority assuming the ex-conservatives (Brazeau, Duffy, Wallin, etc.) don't vote or vote some way other than lockstep against the bill. Trudeau can also use the emergency senate seats to get an absolute majority even if the ex-conservatives try to block it. It is not likely that the Conservative senate will be able to block any party policy that doesn't also reveal deep divisions within the Liberal party.

 

[Walpurgis]

I think that the National Energy Program was a good idea. The good of the country comes before the good of a "province"

Agreed.

Hopefully this ends with less drone warfare.

I don't think the Canadian public would accept that. And after Trudeau's campaign, I'm not too worried about him being a murderer like Obama.

I think most people in the Prairies are just tired of putting in more than their fair share but having their government being forced on them from the east.

So, someone already made a Trudeau Promise Tracker
https://www.trudeaumetre.ca/

Mathew, save this link so it can go in the new thread when we make it

Establish an independent commission to organize leaders’ debates.

This is great. I want easily accessible debates that actually influence the polls. The obscure and buried debates where party leaders engaged in the soundbite wars (interrupting other soundbites and trying to make their own) were just sad.

I want these implemented and hopefully they happen

Indeed. Hype levels are rising.

Well it is kind of useless in that Parliament can also do everything it does, including oversight of bills. A possible solution would be to actually give it more power to obstruct Parliament, but then make the appointment process more like the Supreme Court: Let the PM choose, but from a small selection of candidates chosen by expert committees. For example, say that there needs to be a certain number from each region/province, and also certain fields of expertise (business, law, science, farming, industry, etc).

This! This is what I want. The Supreme Court is great. If we can get the senate to be like that, that would be awesome.

 

[Walpurgis]

"Quebec" does not oppress minorities. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is law here too, you know. Plus we have our own Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms.

Assuming you mean France, they aren't banned from wearing headscarves, only face veils.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-will-require-bare-face-for-service-1.913095


As for France, they banned headscarves from public institutions (school, work, buses, etc.). It's also banned by some private French companies. In other words, you cannot participate in French society wearing a headscarf. The PQ tried to make Quebec the same. Thankfully that failed but I expect it to make a reappearance in the future.

 

[Mysterious]

What does partisan mean? Tried to read some definitions but don't quite understand it.

 

[SRG01]

For everyone's information regarding HoC/Senate dynamics: the HoC sends bills to the Senate for readings, and if the bill receives amendments, the bill is then passed back to the HoC. The bill only receives royal assent once both houses agree on the wording.

From here: http://sen.parl.gc.ca/portal/publications/factsheets/fs-legislation-e.htm

If a bill introduced in the House of Commons and was amended in the Senate, a message about the amendments is sent to the Commons, asking for their agreement. If the Senate and the House of Commons do not agree on the contents of a bill, they may propose amendments until they reach agreement. Once the two Houses agree on a final version, the bill is granted Royal Assent by the Queen or one of her Canadian representatives (usually the Governor General or a deputy), making it law.

(As an aside, this process is actually quite similar to the process between the HoR and the Senate in the US.)

What does partisan mean? Tried to read some definitions but don't quite understand it.

Partisan as in aligned with the party.

 

[Silexx]

There are 22 vacant Senate seats and the Liberals need 19 more senators to have a majority assuming the ex-conservatives (Brazeau, Duffy, Wallin, etc.) don't vote or vote some way other than lockstep against the bill. Trudeau can also use the emergency senate seats to get an absolute majority even if the ex-conservatives try to block it. It is not likely that the Conservative senate will be able to block any party policy that doesn't also reveal deep divisions within the Liberal party.

There's also the fact that the Senate is not exactly popular these days. If they decided to try and block government legislation, there could be swift retribution, both public and political.

Andrew Coyne made this response to an article that suggested that the Senate could cause Trudeau trouble:

Andrew Coyne ‏@acoyne

If they truly have a death wish…

https://twitter.com/acoyne/status/657353177562525696

 

[Sean C]

He's also against appointing partisans to the senate, so that'd be his first renege on a promise. Believe it or not, Trudeau's approach to the senate has its own constitutional issues.

Not really. The Prime Minister can solicit applications and create a review process; as long as the process doesn't purport to limit his discretion or radically alter the character of the Senate (as having them elected would be), it's not really different from the process for selecting judges.

 

[maharg]

Not really. The Prime Minister can solicit applications and create a review process; as long as the process doesn't purport to limit his discretion or radically alter the character of the Senate (as having them elected would be), it's not really different from the process for selecting judges.

... I'm not saying his appointment process has constitutional issues, I'm saying that having his senators not sit as part of a government caucus has constitutional issues (of the common law "this is how things have always worked" branch of constitutional foundation).

They aren't huge issues, but they are new issues that will have to be resolved.

 

[gabbo]

We have our first contender: Diane Finley looking to head CPC.
On behalf of my hometown riding, CanadaPoliGAF I'm sorry.

 

[Azzanadra]

Any chance of the NDP sneaking up to official opposition next election?

 

[BigJonsson]

Watching TV and a CPC attack ad came on, forgot I was watching something I PVRed a few weeks ago......almost got triggered

 

[eBay Huckster]

Any chance of the NDP sneaking up to official opposition next election?

at the very least that'd probably necessitate the Conservative vote collapsing in the Prairies in favor of either the NDP or Liberals, alongside either Quebec randomly returning to 2011 form or the NDP gaining 40+ seats in Ontario

which is to say "non-zero, but very close to zero as things currently stand"

 

[anaron]

We have our first contender: Diane Finley looking to head CPC.
On behalf of my hometown riding, CanadaPoliGAF I'm sorry.

lol she almost looks like a female Harper.

 

[UberTag]

We have our first contender: Diane Finley looking to head CPC.
On behalf of my hometown riding, CanadaPoliGAF I'm sorry.

Somebody has to run them. You're taking the fall for the rest of Canada.
Don't apologize for it.

 

[maharg]

Any chance of the NDP sneaking up to official opposition next election?

About the same as the chances the NDP would be the official opposition in 2011. Or that the Liberals would win a majority in 2015. Or that the NDP would ever in a million years win a provincial election in Alberta.

That is to say, who the fuck knows.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

We have our first contender: Diane Finley looking to head CPC.
On behalf of my hometown riding, CanadaPoliGAF I'm sorry.

Well, that's only interim leader. I'm not excited for their actual leadership contest. If the Ontario PCs is any indication, any semi-intelligent person has zero chance.

 

[Mailbox]

Not sure why Rick did this as a "rant", but its much more like he's giving the new parliament some good advice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAJkoW16vno

 

[Sch1sm]

We have our first contender: Diane Finley looking to head CPC.
On behalf of my hometown riding, CanadaPoliGAF I'm sorry.

The position of leader of the Official Opposition comes with a number of perks, including a car and driver, use of the official residence at Stornoway, and a salary bump of $80,100.

Probably why anyone's doing it, if the senate s any indication as to how much this party loves their money.

Spoiler

/s

 

[gabbo]

Somebody has to run them. You're taking the fall for the rest of Canada.
Don't apologize for it.

I really wish she'd just fade away into political obscurity.

 

[matthewwhatever]

... I'm not saying his appointment process has constitutional issues, I'm saying that having his senators not sit as part of a government caucus has constitutional issues (of the common law "this is how things have always worked" branch of constitutional foundation).

They aren't huge issues, but they are new issues that will have to be resolved.

I'm curious to see how he resolves it. As I've said before, I wouldn't mind seeing a Senate with some teeth, so having it serve as a quasi-SCC that takes a deeper look at legislation -- and maybe even improves it -- appeals to me. Reforming the Senate system is his first chance to show that he's serious about change, so I hope he sticks to what he's promised, even if it makes his life a little harder as PM.

We have our first contender: Diane Finley looking to head CPC.
On behalf of my hometown riding, CanadaPoliGAF I'm sorry.

Enh, I don't think she can do any damage to the country as interim leader. The only way she gets picked is if she gets enough of the caucus members who have legitimate leadership aspirations of their own to support her, and they'll support whoever they believe won't stand in their way of getting the big job. You have to appear competent, but unimpressive and unthreatening. I think it'll be her, Van Loan (who may be more temperamentally suited to being a short-terms opposition leader, since he's an obnoxious pest) or Nicholson.

 

[gutter_trash]

About the same as the chances the NDP would be the official opposition in 2011. Or that the Liberals would win a majority in 2015. Or that the NDP would ever in a million years win a provincial election in Alberta.

That is to say, who the fuck knows.

the NDP's fortune entirely depends on the Liberal's misfortunes.

Dion transfer to Iggy up to May 2011 was the lowest point the Liberals have ever been historically while Jack Layton was conducting his charm offensive even luring in disgruntled Liberal voters

Tom Thomas did the opposite, he conducted a brash, abrasive, partisan, lawyerish campaign against Liberals to the point that it turned off Liberal voters who voted for Jack Layton in 2011.

Mulcair's worst trait was his condescension towards Justin and dismissing him on a Live stage at 4 debates.

Justin Trudeau ran a Liberal campaign that every Liberal voter hoped for. Rallying older nostalgic Liberals along with first time young voters.

 

[Stet]

Except it's not that any more. When has the Senate ever stopped a bill from passing? The most they can do is delay for a little bit. They shouldn't be able to stop bills, simply because they are unelected and unaccountable.

They've amended several of Harper's bills.

 

[maharg]

the NDP's fortune entirely depends on the Liberal's misfortunes.

This is basically a tautology. The fortunes of any political party relies on the misfortune of other political parties.

Dion transfer to Iggy up to May 2011 was the lowest point the Liberals have ever been historically while Jack Layton was conducting his charm offensive even luring in disgruntled Liberal voters

Tom Thomas did the opposite, he conducted a brash, abrasive, partisan, lawyerish campaign against Liberals to the point that it turned off Liberal voters who voted for Jack Layton in 2011.

I wish he actually had. What he ran was a safe, slow, false-smiley campaign. It looked nothing like what you see when you see red because someone says something mildly negative about Pierre Trudeau.

... snip sycophantic weirdness...