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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015

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G

gutter_trash

Banned
ShinRPGamer said:
It's one thing to tell people that provincial and federal parties rarely affiliated with each other, it's another to say it in a condescending manner.

And yes, we get it. You hate the NDP. I'm pretty sure you hate the NDP more than the Conservatives at this point.
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nah man, he is the kind of poster who goes around saying the Liberals are Conservative-Lite.

now that is condescending
 
P

Pedrito

Member
"Lying piece of shit" guy is back
in pog form

National Post said:
Does he want to be remembered as the guy who called reporters lying pieces of s—?

“If I cared what people thought I wouldn’t be a conservative,” he said (the small-c inferred).

“See, the issue is not anything to do with me. The issue is: Is the Canadian media, or is it not, a lying piece of s—. That’s what you have to focus your mind on. That’s where the story is.”

Asked to elaborate, Cowan demurred, saying his views wouldn’t make it into the paper.
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http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...thing-to-shape-anyones-views-of-conservatives
 
T

TheRealTalker

Banned
Dissonance said:
I'm one of the enlightened ones that only drinks almond milk, so no problem here. \o/
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I can only drink this
IMG_4230-e1394549959856-466x700.jpg
Click to expand...
 
S

ShinRPGamer

Member
gutter_trash said:
nah man, he is the kind of poster who goes around saying the Liberals are Conservative-Lite.

now that is condescending
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That I don't get. Putting the Liberal's in the same ballpark as the Conservatives is like saying the Democrats and Republicans are the same. That said, saying "you NDPers" and the like does make you sound patronizing to those who support the NDP, regardless if they know provincial parties are rarely affiliated with the federal party. You can get your point across without needing to do that.
 
T

Tiktaalik

Member
gutter_trash said:
another NDP falsehood.

The BC Liberals are not Liberals and are not affiliated with the Federal Liberals.

The Quebec Liberals severed ties and affiliation in the late 1960s (that is over 50 years ago)

so please, you NDPers, be truthful before commenting.
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The BC Liberals are not officially affiliated with the Federal Liberals however this does not mean they are not related political parties.

There are certainly BC Liberals that support the Liberals federally and vice versa. There is cross over at the individual level. For example the husband of Premier Christy Clark, Mark Marissen, is a top Federal Liberal party strategist, that was served as campaign manager to Dion's leadership bid and later national co-chair of that federal election campaign.

I don't think this is a purely pedantic point to make. It's important to recognize that the same free market, pro-business ideology is at the core of both the Federal and BC Liberal parties. They often share common approaches to the same problems.

This helps inform why the NDP exist and why the Liberals and NDP have never merged despite both being "left wing" parties. The left wing, right wing, centrist labels are more helpful in describing electoral strategy than core political party motivation.

The BC Liberals differentiate from their Federal cousins in that in BC all free marketers, whether conservative or progressive, gravitated to the same party in order to not split the free marketer vote and elect the pro-labour NDP. This resulted in the polarized 2 party dynamic of BC politics and a BC Liberal party which can appear to be more conservative than the Federal Liberals.
 
A

Alexlf

Member
Umibozu said:
Man american milk coming in sounds bad. I remember watching a program where the cows that were injected with the hormones released puss which mixed in with the milk.
no thank you
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Even milk from a local farm probably contains traces of puss, blood and faeces. Cows are milked in a relatively dirty environment and milking can cause irritation that results in blisters and blemishes.

The point is the milk is filtered and pasteurized to hell and back before ever reaching a bag.

The program you watched sounds like it was playing things up.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
not in any official matter.

Here in Quebec, the Quebec Liberals. You have Thomas ''Tom'' Mulcair going from the PLQ to the NDP.
You have Jean Charest former leader of the Progressive Conservatives of Canada becoming leader of the PLQ and Thomas Mulcair's boss provincially under the same party.
You have Lucienne Robillard a former PLQ minsiter jumping to the Federal Liberals.

so on the PLQ's case, you have had examples of former Provincial MNAs jumping to Federal politics to the three different parties and you had one Jean Charest taking over the PLQ.

Mind you, very important, the PLQ severed its ties officially in the late 1960s.
 
P

Popstar

Member
Tiktaalik said:
The BC Liberals are not officially affiliated with the Federal Liberals however this does not mean they are not related political parties.

There are certainly BC Liberals that support the Liberals federally and vice versa. There is cross over at the individual level. For example the husband of Premier Christy Clark, Mark Marissen, is a top Federal Liberal party strategist, that was served as campaign manager to Dion's leadership bid and later national co-chair of that federal election campaign.

I don't think this is a purely pedantic point to make.
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Yes, it is a purely pedantic point to make. If I wanted to suggest that the BC NDP and federal Liberals were similar I wouldn't have to pull the out husband of the Premier. I could pull out the former leader of the BC NDP and actual Premier of BC Ujjal Dosanjh who entered federal politics as a Liberal and was Minister of Health in Paul Martin's government.

Obviously this means there's no difference between the provincial NDP and federal Liberals. /s
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
when it comes to Provincial politics, those parties are mostly more interested in their Provincial bubbles than actual ideological differences.

In my home province, you can find too many contradictory actions, statements and laws passes from both major parties to be able to try to point those 2 parties to be Left, Center or Right

in the end they are both heavily nanny state parties and interventionist but not neceassirly able to to center as a clear right or a clear left since both take actions that can be seen as both.

Budget Cuts, seen as right. But maintain a fat heavy bloated public sector and create new programs seen as left.
 
S

Silexx

Member
So in perhaps more mundane (or should be) news, Trudeau apparently won't be moving into 24 Sussex Dr at least until major repairs are done. The PM's residence has been needing critical repairs now that are estimated to cost up to $10 million, but good luck selling that to taxpayers.

That said, the residence still contains asbestos and with Trudeau having 3 young children with him, he probably wants to make sure there will be no danger of exposure for them.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Silexx said:
So in perhaps more mundane (or should be) news, Trudeau apparently won't be moving into 24 Sussex Dr at least until major repairs are done. The PM's residence has been needing critical repairs now that are estimated to cost up to $10 million, but good luck selling that to taxpayers.

That said, the residence still contains asbestos and with Trudeau having 3 young children with him, he probably wants to make sure there will be no danger of exposure for them.
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the repairs have been needed for decades and Harper refused to live in a temporary residence and insisted in delaying the repair.


the Trudeau family already lives in Ottawa, Most likely they will stay in their home with boosted security while 24 Sussex gets the fixes.
 
T

Tiktaalik

Member
Popstar said:
Yes, it is a purely pedantic point to make. If I wanted to suggest that the BC NDP and federal Liberals were similar I wouldn't have to pull the out husband of the Premier. I could pull out the former leader of the BC NDP and actual Premier of BC Ujjal Dosanjh who entered federal politics as a Liberal and was Minister of Health in Paul Martin's government.

Obviously this means there's no difference between the provincial NDP and federal Liberals. /s
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My point is that we shouldn't go overboard when describing BC Liberals as not Liberals. It's not like they're literally the Conservative party that decided to rename themselves to confuse voters. It is a big tent party and there are legitimate shared connections. They obviously promote more conservative policies than their federal cousins, that's not in dispute.

In BC, given the strongly polarized nature of the parties, the edge between progressive free market Liberal and fiscally prudent New Democrat is a blurry one. There's no middle party choice.
 
T

Tiktaalik

Member
Silexx said:
So in perhaps more mundane (or should be) news, Trudeau apparently won't be moving into 24 Sussex Dr at least until major repairs are done. The PM's residence has been needing critical repairs now that are estimated to cost up to $10 million, but good luck selling that to taxpayers.

That said, the residence still contains asbestos and with Trudeau having 3 young children with him, he probably wants to make sure there will be no danger of exposure for them.
Click to expand...

It'll be really sad if this becomes a controversy. I feel like we've been hearing that 24 Sussex has been about to fall over for years now. It's obviously clear that the place needs repairs.
 
I

IceIpor

Member
Silexx said:
So in perhaps more mundane (or should be) news, Trudeau apparently won't be moving into 24 Sussex Dr at least until major repairs are done. The PM's residence has been needing critical repairs now that are estimated to cost up to $10 million, but good luck selling that to taxpayers.

That said, the residence still contains asbestos and with Trudeau having 3 young children with him, he probably wants to make sure there will be no danger of exposure for them.
Click to expand...

If he manages to implement all his promises by the 4th year, and he wins reelection, he should be gifted a new house as a thank you from us Canadians.
 
F

Firestorm

Member
Silexx said:
So in perhaps more mundane (or should be) news, Trudeau apparently won't be moving into 24 Sussex Dr at least until major repairs are done. The PM's residence has been needing critical repairs now that are estimated to cost up to $10 million, but good luck selling that to taxpayers.

That said, the residence still contains asbestos and with Trudeau having 3 young children with him, he probably wants to make sure there will be no danger of exposure for them.
Click to expand...
We expect our prime minister to live in a house with abestos?

wtf
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
24 Sussex is really sad. No PM wants to fix it because of bad press. The Whitehouse is smart, it's an office building as well as a home, so they can have a maintenance budget.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
it's not a big deal, Harper refused to have renovations happen while he was PM

it's like just shoveling the snow back, letting the next person to come along remove the snow
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
gutter_trash said:
nah man, he is the kind of poster who goes around saying the Liberals are Conservative-Lite.

now that is condescending
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Um...some of them are, especially from the Chretien/Martin era. Paul Martin could have been a Red Tory if he'd wanted to. The Liberals are a big tent party, and there are many people who could fit inside the PC party, though less in the CPC these days.
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
Dr.Acula said:
24 Sussex is really sad. No PM wants to fix it because of bad press. The Whitehouse is smart, it's an office building as well as a home, so they can have a maintenance budget.
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Honestly they should make it into a historic site and build a new modern residence. That way they can renovate it a bit to make it ready for visitors, and the PM can have an actual good home.
 
P

Pedrito

Member
10M$ seem quite high. That house doesn't look that big. Might as well build a new one.

I'm really mad now! My tax dollars!1! Damn libruls! :shakefist:
 
S

Silexx

Member
Samyy said:
Seems like the most realistic suggestion
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Keep in mind that any residence that would house the PM has to account for and accommodate his RCMP security detail. It's not impossible, of course, but it's something that will need to time to plan and then build. In the mean time, the PM needs a place to stay that, again can accommodate his security detail.

So in the immediate future, the best place for the PM to stay is in 24 Sussex Drive until this theoretical new residence is built.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
Walpurgis said:
I know that USA is very scared of China. This is why they are making the TPP. I am saying that Canada should threaten to join Team China if the TPP remains as shitty as it is, instead of just accepting it. Hopefully they would calm down and make it a reasonable deal.
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You're seriously suggesting Canada threaten to walk away from its largest trading partner? I think you're vastly overestimating how important Canada is in the big scheme of things. Cutting trade to our country would cause a hiccup for the United States; they'd suffer, since our relationship is so big, but ultimately they'd get over it.

Cutting trade with the US would devastate Canada. That accounts for about 75% of all our trade, which means more than half of our GDP comes from trade with the US. You really want to abandon all that just to prove some dumb point about a trade deal?

Besides, concerns about the IP aspects of the deal are vastly overstated. We're already a signatory to other copyright and IP treaties, but that hasn't stopped us from being one of the top offenders for copyright/IP theft and infringement -- we've been on the US' Special 301 Watch List for years because we haven't passed copyright laws to their liking. I doubt much will change after TPP gets ratified.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Silexx said:
Keep in mind that any residence that would house the PM has to account for and accommodate his RCMP security detail. It's not impossible, of course, but it's something that will need to time to plan and then build. In the mean time, the PM needs a place to stay that, again can accommodate his security detail.

So in the immediate future, the best place for the PM to stay is in 24 Sussex Drive until this theoretical new residence is built.
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This problem came up last election too. If I remember right, the NDP offered to allow Harper to stay in Stornoway (official opposition leader's house). He refused, presumably taking it as an insult.

Would Stornoway accommodate RCMP? If so it might not be a bad option.

edit: I looked it up:
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/this-old-house/

In her 2008 report, Fraser said that repairs at the official residence could take up to 15 months to complete, at an estimated cost of at least $10 million. She warned that delaying work would cause further deterioration, increase future costs, and risk embarrassing Canada when foreign dignitaries come to town. The NCC has tried to relocate the Harpers and proposed Rideau Gate, the house across from 24 Sussex, where the royal family stays. Former Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff also offered up Stornoway, the Opposition leader’s house. But the Harpers have made it clear they won’t move out long-term. Any major renovation is bound to go over budget, and there are political implications to spending so much to upgrade the house.
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P

Pedrito

Member
It's the ultimate PR nightmare. You could show pictures of walls literally falling down and the reaction across the board would still be "I have trouble paying my mortgage and this guy is building himself a 15M$ palace with my taxes. Who do you think he is?".
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Pedrito said:
It's the ultimate PR nightmare. You could show pictures of walls literally falling down and the reaction across the board would still be "I have trouble paying my mortgage and this guy is building himself a 15M$ palace with my taxes. Who do you think he is?".
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You could probably just show off the heating bill during Stephen Harper's tenure and almost everyone would understand.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Pedrito said:
It's the ultimate PR nightmare. You could show pictures of walls literally falling down and the reaction across the board would still be "I have trouble paying my mortgage and this guy is building himself a 15M$ palace with my taxes. Who do you think he is?".
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best get it out of the way during year 1 so people forget about it in year 4
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
The thing for Harper is it would have angered his base. The Liberal base, let alone the more left wing switchers who swung Liberal this time? Meh.
 
W

Walpurgis

Banned
Pedrito said:
It's the ultimate PR nightmare. You could show pictures of walls literally falling down and the reaction across the board would still be "I have trouble paying my mortgage and this guy is building himself a 15M$ palace with my taxes. Who do you think he is?".
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MPs with no education get paid like 150k a year for winning a popularity contest between party leaders. The PM walks around surrounded by the best armed guards (who get paid a shit ton) and lives in a mansion. And that's not even counting the costs of their international expeditions and 6 star hotels. Everyone already (or should already) know that these guys live big. $15 million in repairs doesn't sound like anything out of the ordinary to me.

However, they should ditch it and build a new one, imo. I just read the Wikipedia page and it looks like that house doesn't hold much historical value as I thought. It's only been 80 years since they stole it from Gordon Edwards. If they need a place to stay, there are the old PM houses, Harper's new house and the royal house. $15 million in repairs for a $7.2 million house is dumb.
gutter_trash said:
best get it out of the way during year 1 so people forget about it in year 4
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Agreed. He has a majority so now would be the time. It's not like anyone can stop him.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Well, the British are going through this with spending 50 million to renovate Buckingham Palace. At least we don't have to pay for that crap.
 
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