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[lacinius]

Canada only stopped asbestos production in 2011.

I honestly thought it was still being made in Canada...

The last of the asbestos mines in Quebec was finally shutdown in Sept. 2012 But... we should not forget that it was during the 2011 campaign Harper spent St-Jean-Baptiste Day celebrating with Thetford Mines officials at a BBQ, showing his support for the asbestos mining company as Harper's Conservative government steadfastly refused to let asbestos be added to a United Nations treaty called the Rotterdam Convention that would list it as a carcinogen on the hazardous-chemicals list.

So... while this mining company continued to sell slow agonizing death to third world countries, Harper, the Canadian Prime Minister, thought it best to celebrate another successful UN exclusion by joining the mining officials for a lovely holiday BBQ.

 

[orochi91]

I'm less interested in hearing about "how much you know about X" and more interested in about what you know.

That doesn't matter. This entire time I've been arguing with him, all he's responded with is "you're wrong, I know more", same as the other guy. If he has something to say, I'm willing to listen but so far, he's said nothing.

+1

Agreed, spill the beans Boogie, we all want them juicy details :3

 

[Expansion Pack]

Since I'm not a nationalist that can't see my province taking criticism without jumping to its defense, I have no problem saying that I'm well aware of Manitoba's racism issue. There is nowhere in this country where Aboriginals are more hated. I don't see how that's relevant to Harper's campaign and Quebec. Nice try though.

Dude, I'm like so sure the zero heckles you've received for being Manitoban are equivalent to the amount of shit francophones get all the fucking time from many anglo-Canadians (usually bitching about equalization payments and "a lack of respect"). Yeah, you know exactly what it's like.

Anyway, everyone knows Lynton Crosby's dog-whistle politics are the reason for Harper's campaign, so you can fuck off with this "I'm just criticizing Quebec" bs.

 

[indigo lily]

My background is Trinidadian. So when there's video of Justin Trudeau jumping and waving and doing the Palance with a Trini flag in his hand I can't help but enter a state of Trudeaumania.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10/23/justin-trudeau-dancing-soca-palance-video_n_8365224.html

Trudeau is genuine. He embraces different cultures. I really believe it when he says he wants to unite Canada.

This made my night... Especially needed this after the Jays game. Posted this and tagged my Trini /Grenadian fam. So good

 

[LurkerPrime]

The last of the asbestos mines in Quebec was finally shutdown in Sept. 2012 But... we should not forget that it was during the 2011 campaign Harper spent St-Jean-Baptiste Day celebrating with Thetford Mines officials at a BBQ, showing his support for the asbestos mining company as Harper's Conservative government steadfastly refused to let asbestos be added to a United Nations treaty called the Rotterdam Convention that would list it as a carcinogen on the hazardous-chemicals list.

So... while this mining company continued to sell slow agonizing death to third world countries, Harper, the Canadian Prime Minister, thought it best to celebrate another successful UN exclusion by joining the mining officials for a lovely holiday BBQ.

Oh. This is actually... quite a bit worse than I thought, due to the global influence.

Thanks for the info, though. I kept running into asbestos health warning sites while trying to look it up.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

You were born in the most nationalistic province in the country, therefore, what you say about it is true. Compelling argument.

That would be a stupid argument, but fortunately it wasn't one I actually made. It's quite spectacular how much bad faith you cram in so many of your posts, I must say.

Ignorant speculation masquerading as informed opinion is what offends me.

Which seems to be your entire shtick, to me.

Yup. Evidence schmevidence.

 

[Walpurgis]

Dude, I'm like so sure the zero heckles you've received for being Manitoban are equivalent to the amount of shit francophones get all the fucking time from many anglo-Canadians (usually bitching about equalization payments and "a lack of respect"). Yeah, you know exactly what it's like.

Anyway, everyone knows Lynton Crosby's dog-whistle politics are the reason for Harper's campaign, so you can fuck off with this "I'm just criticizing Quebec" bs.

I don't know if you've been following along but I don't care about equalisation payments (well, actually, I support them), we're talking about Quebec's oppression of minorities. Trying to use the Quebec oppression by the rest of Canada card doesn't play well in this context. Assuming that you are defending Quebec here, your oppression doesn't excuse the oppression of others.

Harper's proposed niqab ban during citizenship ceremonies was before Crosby's time in Canada. Although, it was also after Quebec passed Bill 94 (the only bill of its kind in North America) and after nearly half of Quebec voted for the parties trying to pass the charter of "Quebec values" that was eerily similar (but actually far worse) to a bill passed by France many years ago.

That would be a stupid argument, but fortunately it wasn't one I actually made. It's quite spectacular how much bad faith you cram in so many of your posts, I must say.

We've argued about this a few times before and not once have you done anything other than post snark in response to my evidence. It's the same thing every time. If you disagree with anything that I've said, then post that and provide evidence to back it up. "I'm from Quebec so I'll come to a different conclusion" is not enough. Until then, you're just posting "No! I don't like what you're saying!".

I'll be here when you're ready to make an actual argument. That goes for the other guy too.

 

[Walpurgis]

Yup. Evidence schmevidence.

It's clear that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here (other than the fact that you're taking a potshot at me).

 

[Pedrito]

You're aware that Bill 94 has never actually been passed right? As of right now, minorities are not currently "oppressed" in Québec. They might be next week, next month or next year, but not at this very moment. You have to change your tune a little bit.

 

[Walpurgis]

You're aware that Bill 94 has never actually been passed right? As of right now, minorities are not currently "oppressed" in Québec. They might be next week, next month or next year, but not at this very moment. You have to change your tune a little bit.

You're right, my mistake. I'm surprised no one called me out on that earlier. It's hard to find up to date information on these things in English. I still can't find any article about the bill failing but I found information within another article. It's a funny story actually. The PQ voted against it because they thought it was too soft.

Anyway, it's coming back and it will pass this time (if it hasn't already) since the PLQ have a majority. It's called Bill 62 and it's the same as before.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...trality-bill-banning-face-coverings-1.3107827

Here's what the Conservatives had to say.

Canada's Multiculturalism Minister, Tim Uppal, weighed in on Bill 62.

"We broadly support Quebec's legislation regarding the uncovering of faces for giving and receiving public services," Uppal told reporters after the Conservative caucus met on Parliament Hill.

Uppal said the Conservatives will table a last-minute bill -- just before the session ends for the summer -- that is similar to Quebec's but would be more limited in scope.

"Our government will be moving forward in the coming days with legislation with respect to the face coverings at citizenship ceremonies, and we will consider what other measures may be necessary," the minister said.

Birds of a feather.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Is Bill 94 on the table? Looks like the bill died on the table after the 2012 election.

I think you're talking about Bill 62? Pretty shameful Couillard came up with this; I thought he would be above it. Now federal courts will have to strike it down and give PQ ammo. He didn't think this through at all.

Edit: beaten. Lol at Tim Uppal and niqab. I wonder what he thinks of the National Assembly's kirpan ban?

 

[Expansion Pack]

Harper's proposed niqab ban during citizenship ceremonies was before Crosby's time in Canada. Although, it was also after Quebec passed Bill 94 (the only bill of its kind in North America) and after nearly half of Quebec voted for the parties trying to pass the charter of "Quebec values" that was eerily similar (but actually far worse) to a bill passed by France many years ago.

Let's be clear here, you're accusing Quebec of being the most racist and most nationalist province because some people have tried, but failed, to pass laws requiring unveiled faces. This in spite of the fact that Western Canada was the birth place of the infamous Canadian Indian school system which saw 4000 deaths - mostly kids? Like, if you want to argue every province has its racists, then sure. But singling out Quebec because Harper and Marois tried to use Muslims as a wedge issue is ridiculous. They both ultimately saw a collapse of their campaigns. Both lost and Quebec gave both of their main opponents majority governments instead. Your accusations are uncalled for is all I'm saying.

Spoiler

Okay I admit, I had to research the stuff about aboriginals in Canada. We need to be taught this stuff in our history classes more, man.

 

[Stumpokapow]

You're aware that Bill 94 has never actually been passed right? As of right now, minorities are not currently "oppressed" in Québec. They might be next week, next month or next year, but not at this very moment. You have to change your tune a little bit.

that seems kinda weaksauce to me--you don't think repeatedly using minorities as a political football causes them to face additional struggle? if not from the ramifications of being treated like this by your government, then perhaps by wackos who take the cues to amp up the xenophobic harassment they were already getting away with in public spaces?

So... regarding Edmonton-Millwoods: apparently Uppal's team convinced a judge for a judicial recount despite being past the 0.15% threshold: http://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...ount-in-federal-riding-of-edmonton-mill-woods

thresholds for election recounts are almost always for automatic recounts. no problem manually allowing one after that threshold. hell, if the campaign is willing to pay, i don't see a problem with allowing them irrespective of the vote division.

 

[Walpurgis]

Let's be clear here, you're accusing Quebec of being the most racist and most nationalist province because some people have tried, but failed, to pass laws requiring unveiled faces. This in spite of the fact that Western Canada was the birth place of the infamous Canadian Indian school system which saw 4000 deaths - mostly kids? Like, if you want to argue every province has its racists, then sure. But singling out Quebec because Harper and Marois tried to use Muslims as a wedge issue is ridiculous. They both ultimately saw a collapse of their campaigns. Both lost and Quebec gave both of their main opponents majority governments instead. Your accusations are uncalled for is all I'm saying.

I'm saying that Quebec oppresses minorities and I've proven that with laws, both proposed and passed*.

It's funny that you brought up the residential schools. That's probably why I am so strongly against assimilation. It's a filthy word to me and whenever people encourage it, I feel sick. Quebec encourages it more than any other province with their "Quebec values".

This is what I'm talking about.

The foundations of the system were the pre-confederation Gradual Civilization Act (1857) and the Gradual Enfranchisement Act (1869). These assumed the inherent superiority of French and British ways, and the need for Indians to become French or English-speakers, Christians, and farmers. At the time, many Aboriginal leaders wanted these acts overturned.

Seeing that idea in Canada today really rubs me the wrong way, especially as a Winnipegger.

As for the residential schools themselves, it was federal. Wherever there were Aboriginals and Europeans, there was assimilation and the entire country is responsible for that. I believe the idea originated in Ontario/Quebec though (that's where the government was).

Spoiler

Okay I admit, I had to research the stuff about aboriginals in Canada. We need to be taught this stuff in our history classes more, man.

It's regional. In Winnipeg, we learned a ton about this but that's because Winnipeg is the city with the highest Aboriginal population in Canada.

 

[Prax]

Lemme just add in that Walpurgis may be extra sensitive to racism and the politics around it (I believe he or his family are also immigrant and muslim), so he may be harder on Quebec than others on these issues, but he also makes the more compelling arguments right now.

 

[Azih]

Look. Canada has issues with racism and bigotry. There's no benefit in avoiding that fact or avoiding the fact that different areas have different expressions of that and are worse in some places than others. The prarire treatment of aboriginals is terrible as is Quebec taking certain cues from France that no one should.

 

[Sean C]

So... regarding Edmonton-Millwoods: apparently Uppal's team convinced a judge for a judicial recount despite being past the 0.15% threshold: http://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...ount-in-federal-riding-of-edmonton-mill-woods

With a vote that close, it makes sense to have one, in my view. Highly unlikely it will change the result, but might as well be sure.

 

[Perfect Blue]

News roundup! I've read so many articles in the past two weeks from foreign pubs about our politics lol still feels weird.

Justin Trudeau: Leader who was born to run (FT)
Justin Trudeau Just Showed American Democrats How to Win the Next Election (The Nation)
Ready or not... (The Economist)
Keynes Comes to Canada (NYT op-ed by Paul Krugman

 

[oneils]

News roundup! I've read so many articles in the past two weeks from foreign pubs about our politics lol still feels weird.

Justin Trudeau: Leader who was born to run (FT)
Justin Trudeau Just Showed American Democrats How to Win the Next Election (The Nation)
Ready or not... (The Economist)
Keynes Comes to Canada (NYT op-ed by Paul Krugman

Don't know if it has already been linked, here, but the Maclean's post mortem by Paul Wells was pretty good. I think its something like 20,000 words.

The Making of a Prime Minister

 

[Layell]

Reading two of those posted articles reminded me about the Macleans article around Gerald Butts, the Principal Advisor to Trudeau: http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...-make-justin-trudeau-the-next-prime-minister/

I went through his twitter too recently, and it's quite accurate. He disputes that "Making of a Prime Minister" article as not how it really happened, and highlighted that NYT Op-ed writer Paul Krugman won a Nobel in Economic Science.

I really have to wonder what Butts will be up to now and in the next decade or two. Having taken McGuinty and Trudeau to power I hope to see him do well at the top of the Liberal food chain.

 

[Dunlop]

Lemme just add in that Walpurgis may be extra sensitive to racism and the politics around it (I believe he or his family are also immigrant and muslim), so he may be harder on Quebec than others on these issues, but he also makes the more compelling arguments right now.

He seems to like to paint all Quebeckers as intolerant or at the extreme racists and it has spanned multiple threads regardless of facts that are presented to the contrary.

Division blew up the PQ just like it did for Harper

 

[Pedrito]

that seems kinda weaksauce to me--you don't think repeatedly using minorities as a political football causes them to face additional struggle? if not from the ramifications of being treated like this by your government, then perhaps by wackos who take the cues to amp up the xenophobic harassment they were already getting away with in public spaces?

Oh there's certainly a market for that kind of politics. Is it bigger that in other provinces? Perhaps. Saying that, it backfired both times and the political parties shamelessly using these tactics didn't benefit from it in the end.They even lost badly (baffling case of Quebec City aside).

 

[matthewwhatever]

I've never seen it mentioned until now and this is my first election. Like I said, the place is pretty unremarkable so it's pretty obscure knowledge (in my age group, at least).

I know Boogie already took you to task for this but: just because you're not aware of something, that doesn't make it obscure. It just means you're ignorant on that topic.

Rob Nicholson throws his hat into the interim leader ring. I'd say it'll likely be him, then.

I think it's more likely to be him than Finley, for sure. I still think Van Loan would be the better choice: he knows parliamentary procedure, and he's got the ability to get under people's skin. For an interim leader, that seems like the perfect combination.

I really have to wonder what Butts will be up to now and in the next decade or two. Having taken McGuinty and Trudeau to power I hope to see him do well at the top of the Liberal food chain.

He's basically punched his ticket to do whatever he wants. I could see him becoming the Liberals' next Keith Davey: the guy who masterminds their campaigns for the next several years, federally and provincially.

shit, I need to do that at some point

Cross-Canadian GAF meet up in Montreal!

 

[Sean C]

I think it's more likely to be him than Finley, for sure. I still think Van Loan would be the better choice: he knows parliamentary procedure, and he's got the ability to get under people's skin. For an interim leader, that seems like the perfect combination.

If the interim leader is going to be the face of the party for the next six months or so, I think Nicholson is the better option. Much more dignified than Van Loan.

 

[Divvy]

Goddamn, this guy is doing all the right things

Trudeau invites May, other leaders to join UN climate summit delegation

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-invites-may-other-leaders-to-join-un-climate-summit-delegation-1.2625763

 

[Mission]

Goddamn, this guy is doing all the right things

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-invites-may-other-leaders-to-join-un-climate-summit-delegation-1.2625763

Other than the eventual accusation about running up costs it's definitely the best approach politically. He gets to keep control by not having them go alone as our delegate but gets both the optics of inclusion, buy in, and in the case of a few of them, knowledge.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

I hope something bears fruit during the Paris conference. I'm really scared for my future kids and future generations. It would suck real bad if the next generation inherits a destroyed Earth because we were too shortsighted.

 

[Layell]

He's basically punched his ticket to do whatever he wants. I could see him becoming the Liberals' next Keith Davey: the guy who masterminds their campaigns for the next several years, federally and provincially.

I do hope he stays on as Trudeau's right hand man, being his best friend and campaign master and all. It will be interesting to see how he handles an election while in power too.

Goddamn, this guy is doing all the right things
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-invites-may-other-leaders-to-join-un-climate-summit-delegation-1.2625763

Impressive too, I'll have to assume inviting the premiers is a new approach, but one that is sure to be appreciated. I hope he can work well with the provinces.

May going with Afghanistan though is just crazy, how is it I only learned about this now?

 

[Zombie James]

Goddamn, this guy is doing all the right things



http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-invites-may-other-leaders-to-join-un-climate-summit-delegation-1.2625763

It's been a long time since we've had a leader leading. Feels good, man.

 

[mdubs]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...matum-to-elementary-teachers/article26950978/

That's a lot of money

 

[Hieberrr]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...matum-to-elementary-teachers/article26950978/

That's a lot of money

Must've been a lot of pizza.

 

[matthewwhatever]

If the interim leader is going to be the face of the party for the next six months or so, I think Nicholson is the better option. Much more dignified than Van Loan.

How sad is it that Nicholson can be called the dignified one? And how is it that the Tories never cultivated any senior statesman-type MPs who can be counted on to be the party face? You'd think they would have some just by accident.

I do hope he stays on as Trudeau's right hand man, being his best friend and campaign master and all. It will be interesting to see how he handles an election while in power too.

Nah, you need different approaches for campaigns and governing. Better to have a different team in there for the work of governing, while Butts & co. start laying the groundwork for the next election. It can't hurt to start building up field offices in the Prairies, nor can it hurt to consolidate the gains they made this election by improving what they already have in some of the ridings that may be tough holds next time out. Halifax, Calgary and interior BC are far from safe seats!

 

[SRG01]

How sad is it that Nicholson can be called the dignified one? And how is it that the Tories never cultivated any senior statesman-type MPs who can be counted on to be the party face? You'd think they would have some just by accident.

They all jumped ship. Prentice *chortle* was the closest one and even he jumped years ago.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

News story talking about how Doug Ford is getting advise for running.

Really.

Doug Ford.

Might as well get Don Cherry in, and we get ourselves a full on Republican race.

 

[gutter_trash]

I hope Doug runs, we need the laughs and we need the Conservatives to in-fight among themselves.

 

[CreeperBlocks]

News story talking about how Doug Ford is getting advise for running.

Really.

Doug Ford.

Might as well get Don Cherry in, and we get ourselves a full on Republican race.

Don Quick should run.

 

[gabbo]

News story talking about how Doug Ford is getting advise for running.

Really.

Doug Ford.

Might as well get Don Cherry in, and we get ourselves a full on Republican race.

If you want a divided Right, he and his brother are your men.

 

[firehawk12]

I hope something bears fruit during the Paris conference. I'm really scared for my future kids and future generations. It would suck real bad if the next generation inherits a destroyed Earth because we were too shortsighted.

Climate scientists have already said we're past the point of no return, so unless we to go back to slow steam ships and horses, we're all kind of fucked anyway.

 

[AuthenticM]

I hope Doug runs

I hope Rob runs.

 

[Fuzzy]

I hope Rob runs.

He's gonna be busy running Toronto when he runs again in 2018 and his nephew wins his council seat like what they had planned for the last election until he got sick.

 

[Azih]

So you guys thought the last few elections had a ton of wasted votes? Put up the election results on wastedvotes.ca. This one almost swept the top 5 most wasted votes by district on my whole website.

 

[Pedrito]

So you guys thought the last few elections had a ton of wasted votes? Put up the election results on wastedvotes.ca. This one almost swept the top 5 most wasted votes by district on my whole website.

Look at all those Québec ridings...

 

[mo60]

Look at all those Québec ridings...

The shocking part is that 80% of the quebec ridings that made this list were from the recent election.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Anyone watch the Trudeau's first post election interview?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.2626439

He's saying all the right things. Seems like the right guy for change so far, hopefully he does keep all his promises.

 

[Prax]

I hear Rob doesn't look in very good shape in person health-wise, so I'm not sure he'll be running for anything anytime soon despite the bluster.
I kind of want Doug to run for the laughs, but it's better not to test fate. lol

That interview with Trudeau has him come across as very thoughtful and understanding of the enormity of the tasks he and the Liberal Party have pledged to accomplish. I think he has the energy to pull it through. I'm hoping most Canadians will be thanking him for the delivery in a few years and feel that electing him and his party was worthwhile.

Although Canadians have high expectations of him, he has high expectations of Canadians too, trying to appeal to our better or broader spectrum goals. So I hope we collectively are able to live up to the values we identify of as Canadians, since over the past decade we didn't have as many opportunities to explore our identity and our future (there was typically focus on self-preservation and some wartime glory that many of the "new stock" folks have little connection to.. so was pretty off-tone to me). I don't know what Canadians will collectively push for or against over the next few years, but it finally feels like we'll have the freedom and power to exercise our will.

 

[gutter_trash]

Anyone watch the Trudeau's first post election interview?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.2626439

He's saying all the right things. Seems like the right guy for change so far, hopefully he does keep all his promises.

those socks

 

[gutter_trash]

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/e...olere-a-encourage-les-autochtones-a-voter.php

First Nations voter turn out jumped up by 270% according to LaPresse

dissatisfaction towards Harper was the motivator

 

[kess]

Climate scientists have already said we're past the point of no return, so unless we to go back to slow steam ships and horses, we're all kind of fucked anyway.

Fatalism solves nothing, there's still a lot to fight for.

 

[Zombie James]

http://ipolitics.ca/2015/10/26/red-tories-plan-ride-back-from-the-wilderness/

The divisions still exist within the Conservative party. Maybe merging progressives with nutjobs wasn't the smartest idea after all. Who knew? ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[firehawk12]

Fatalism solves nothing, there's still a lot to fight for.

The problem is that there's no magic "free energy" solution. I think as a society we've moved away from nuclear power because of the risks involved, and that was basically supposed to be the panacea to coal, oil, and gas. So we keep fracking and drilling and piping shit across the planet, slowly killing ourselves day by day.

I dunno, maybe I'm missing something, but the "extremist" scientists say that we're already past the precipice and that even cutting emissions entirely is too late now.