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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015

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E

eBay Huckster

Member
You Are Viewtiful said:
Hot of the presses. Paging gaboumafou.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/e...-cropla-presse-le-npd-domine-sans-partage.php

Quebec poll by CROP

NDP 47% (+11%)
LPC 20% (-2%)
BQ 17% (-8%)
CPC 13% (-1%)
OTH 3%
Click to expand...

Bonus: riding-level polling from Environics out as of approximately three hours ago, too:

A new Environics Research poll of 7,573 eligible voters, commissioned by Leadnow, says Conservative support has, combined, dropped 14 percentage points across 13 different swing ridings, compared to 2011 election results.

The Conservatives are supported by 31 per cent of decided voters, combined, in the 13 ridings, compared to 45 per cent support in the 2011 election, the poll says.

Of those 13 ridings spread across Canada, the Conservatives lead in one riding and are tied with the Liberals in two others. The New Democratic Party leads in five of the 13 ridings and the Liberals in three of them.
Click to expand...
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
I want an NDP minority supported by an official accord with the Liberals with a few key Liberal policy planks being included in the legislative agenda, one of them being full (regulated) legalization modelled after something like Colorado.
 
W

Walpurgis

Banned
TheGreatPotato said:
I want an NDP minority supported by an official accord with the Liberals with a few key Liberal policy planks being included in the legislative agenda, one of them being full (regulated) legalization modelled after something like Colorado.
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Agreed. NDP + Liberals in government while the Conservatives throw a tantrum in a corner.
 
W

Willectro

Banned
TheGreatPotato said:
I want an NDP minority supported by an official accord with the Liberals with a few key Liberal policy planks being included in the legislative agenda, one of them being full (regulated) legalization modelled after something like Colorado.
Click to expand...

The NDP doesn't have the fucking balls to legalize and would prefer to "study it further". Fuck that scene, no more sitting on the fucking fence, no more half measures, it's insane. The time to study has been the last 100 years. This election shouldn't be about considering shit, Canada needs action. Want to be PM, Mulcair? There are going to be some tough decisions.

Edit: and for clarity, decriminalization is fence sitting.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
if the NDP wants Liberal support: the NDP will have to give up their policy of applying Bill 101 to Fedearal institutions inside Quebec (yes, this in the NDP's platform) and the NDP has to back off their Sherbrooke Accord.

if the NDP can compromise by putting those two stupid policies out of their platform, then maybe when can talk about a coalition. Or else, the NDP will be on their own.
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
gutter_trash said:
if the NDP wants Liberal support: the NDP will have to give up their policy of applying Bill 101 to Fedearal institutions inside Quebec (yes, this in the NDP's platform) and the NDP has to back off their Sherbrooke Accord.

if the NDP can compromise by putting those two stupid policies out of their platform, then maybe when can talk about a coalition. Or else, the NDP will be on their own.
Click to expand...

You underestimate people's lust for power, and other's lust for getting their pet legislation passed. If there is a minority government of either the CPC or NDP, then the LPC have no option but to support the NDP:

1) If they support the CPC, then people will abandon them in favour of the NDP for betraying the centre/left, and the party could die.

2) If they refuse to support the NDP and the CPC calls another snap election, the LPC has no money at all to wage a campaign. This option is impossible for either the LPC or NDP to consider. They wouldn't even be able to afford to fly their candidates anywhere.

They must support the NDP if the choice is between NDP, CPC, or another election.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
TheGreatPotato said:
You underestimate people's lust for power, and other's lust for getting their pet legislation passed. If there is a minority government of either the CPC or NDP, then the LPC have no option but to support the NDP:

1) If they support the CPC, then people will abandon them in favour of the NDP for betraying the centre/left, and the party could die.

2) If they refuse to support the NDP and the CPC calls another snap election, the LPC has no money at all to wage a campaign. This option is impossible for either the LPC or NDP to consider. They wouldn't even be able to afford to fly their candidates anywhere.

They must support the NDP if the choice is between NDP, CPC, or another election.
Click to expand...
If the NDP attempts to peddle nationalistic legislation during a minority government then they are fair game to be No Confidenced down
 
S

Silexx

Member
Boogie said:
Canada Poli-GAF is filled with one-note wonders.

Some of us are just more self-aware of that fact than others. ;)
Click to expand...

Heck, I think that's why we're pretty civil for a politics thread. We're more interested in talking up our pet causes rather than go after each other. 😝
 
J

jstripes

Banned
Boogie said:
Canada Poli-GAF is filled with one-note wonders.

Some of us are just more self-aware of that fact than others. ;)
Click to expand...

Here's how I see things:

Get Harper out. Period. And let him self-destruct as the opposition.

Give Mulcair and the NDP a few years to prove themselves as a federal party.

Give Trudeau a few more years of parliamentary experience to put under his belt. ("He's just not ready" isn't the career-killer that "He's only visiting" was.)

See how things are going by the next election.
 
T

Tiktaalik

Member
TheGreatPotato said:
You underestimate people's lust for power, and other's lust for getting their pet legislation passed. If there is a minority government of either the CPC or NDP, then the LPC have no option but to support the NDP:

1) If they support the CPC, then people will abandon them in favour of the NDP for betraying the centre/left, and the party could die.

2) If they refuse to support the NDP and the CPC calls another snap election, the LPC has no money at all to wage a campaign. This option is impossible for either the LPC or NDP to consider. They wouldn't even be able to afford to fly their candidates anywhere.

They must support the NDP if the choice is between NDP, CPC, or another election.
Click to expand...

Though if the 3rd place Liberals support the 2nd place NDP it could result in the bigger party winning a massive majority in the next election. This is what happened with the Lib Dems supporting the Conservatives in the UK recently, and when the NDP supported the Liberals in a minority in Ontario in the 80s, resulting in a big Liberal Majority in the next election in 1987.

It's a very tough situation for the Liberals to be in.

The uncertainty around what could happen in a coalition scenario is why I simply advocate that people drop the Liberals.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Morrigan Stark said:
Quoting this for posterity.

I mean, I hope you're right, but you sure seem mighty sure of yourself...
Click to expand...

how can Red Tories, Progressive Conservatives and non-partisan right leaning voters support Harper at this point?

Harper is a spending spree Conservative who contradicts his own brand of Conservationism from 12 years ago. Everything he ran against in prior 2006 he now has become

The Harper Conservatives have been the biggest spenders in Canadian History and have have squandered successive Liberal surpluses back into deficits.

Selling GM stares to balance the budget short term is laughable

everything Harper does, is short term.
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
gutter_trash said:
how can Red Tories, Progressive Conservatives and non-partisan right leaning voters support Harper at this point?

Harper is a spending spree Conservative who contradicts his own brand of Conservationism from 12 years ago.
Click to expand...
Yeah, when have people ever voted according to party lines regardless of what the party itself does? This never happened. I mean it's not like Bush was elected twice by people who profess to love "small government"...
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Morrigan Stark said:
Yeah, when have people ever voted according to party lines regardless of what the party itself does? This never happened. I mean it's not like Bush was elected twice by people who profess to love "small government"...
Click to expand...

American politics is about the Cult of Personality.

Canadian politics is nothing like that at all, yes character does matter but not to the extent as the States.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Tiktaalik said:
Because everyone else is a socialist and people only care about low taxes.

Fuck you got mine pretty much.
Click to expand...

I still believe there that there are shades of grey from both sides of the spectrum who are more nuanced than being an alarmist who paints every to the left of them or to the right of them as an extreme.

We are not Americans, we are Canadians
 
W

Walpurgis

Banned
81-year-old voter takes 'Defeat Harper' message to Winnipeg streets
81-year-old-doreen-routley.jpg

CBC said:
A Winnipeg senior is so disenchanted with the current federal government that she has taken her frustrations to the streets hoping to sway voters' opinions before going to the polls this October.

Doreen Routley, 81, used to be a staunch Conservative.

"I was a real strong supporter of the Progressive Conservatives, but when Brian Mulroney was in, that was the end of my connection with them. Next to Harper, Mulroney is an angel," said Routley.

"He is not truthful, but he is a very persuasive liar."
Click to expand...
CBC said:
She claims her family should have known her days of protest in the streets were coming.

"I've been telling my family for two years that I was going to do it and they thought I was kidding, but I wasn't," said Routley.
Click to expand...
CBC said:
Routley spent about four hours on Tuesday and Wednesday handing out sheets of anti-Harper information downtown. She is doing it because she believes "Harper has taken democracy out of our country.

"When he was in opposition, he promised us three things if we voted him in. The first one was transparency in government, the second one was an elected senate and the third one was less government," said Routley.

"Well, we got omnibus bills that are so convoluted it takes years to find out what's in them, we did not get an elected senate and he put about 30 more seats in the House of Commons."
Click to expand...
CBC said:
"I am just absolutely sick with the way he treats our veterans, and I don't like it how he doesn't acknowledge our aboriginal people," Routley said. "Harper is the kind of person that seems to me to always want to be at war with somebody, whether it be parliament or whatever."
Click to expand...
CBC said:
"Many of the people who are voting Conservative think they're voting for the Progressive Conservatives. Well, there is no more progressives."
Click to expand...
CBC said:
"The youth has to get out and vote because if they did they could make a lot of changes in this country," said Routley. "I'd like them to become more informed about what's going on so that we can have more power when we see a party going off the rails."

The 81-year-old said that if her one-person demonstration only convinces one person to change their mind, then it was all worth it.
Click to expand...
doreen-routley-81.jpg

LMAO! This lady is awesome.
 
C

Cake Boss

Banned
Doreen and NYTimes spitting out truth bombs while our passive aggressive party leaders are just sitting on their ass saying shit about the dude.
 
A

Azih

Member
Cake Boss said:
Doreen and NYTimes spitting out truth bombs while our passive aggressive party leaders are just sitting on their ass saying shit about the dude.
Click to expand...

I see where you're coming from but Doreen, the NYTimes, and Andrew Coyne aren't trying to get elected which sadly makes a hell of a lot of difference.
 
J

jstripes

Banned
CBC said:
"I was a real strong supporter of the Progressive Conservatives, but when Brian Mulroney was in, that was the end of my connection with them. Next to Harper, Mulroney is an angel," said Routley.
Click to expand...
I was thinking about that the other day. Mulroney may have never seen an American ass he didn't want to kiss, but at least he had charisma on the world stage and embraced Canada's reputation as polite peacekeepers.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
I think that in a few decades, Mulroney will have a substantially better PM. He passed some of the strongest environmental legislation this country has ever produced. He was one of the first international leaders to come out against apartheid (he also tried to lead the international community against Suharto in Indonesia, but that wasn't as successful). Personally, I think free trade has been a net good for the country, and he led the push for that. His budgets did leave a bit to be desired, but in his defense that was because he didn't want to cut social transfers to the provinces. Admittedly, national unity and the constitution were pretty big blemishes on his record (and as someone who joined the PC Party in the '90s partly out of an admiration for Joe Clark, I don't like how Mulroney undercut him there), but on the whole, I think he did a lot more good than people give him credit for.

Azih said:
Yeah I'm with Trudeau on this one. Legalization is the only thing that makes sense.

*brofist matthewwhatever*
Click to expand...

Welcome! Have I told you about the Liberal plan to introduce a compassionate care benefit and to get students registered to vote as part of their high school curriculum?


TheGreatPotato said:
You underestimate people's lust for power, and other's lust for getting their pet legislation passed. If there is a minority government of either the CPC or NDP, then the LPC have no option but to support the NDP:

1) If they support the CPC, then people will abandon them in favour of the NDP for betraying the centre/left, and the party could die.

2) If they refuse to support the NDP and the CPC calls another snap election, the LPC has no money at all to wage a campaign. This option is impossible for either the LPC or NDP to consider. They wouldn't even be able to afford to fly their candidates anywhere.

They must support the NDP if the choice is between NDP, CPC, or another election.
Click to expand...

If the Liberals don't win, there's nothing saying they have to create a formal coalition with either party. They could support whoever forms government on a case-by-case basis. Technically it's just the throne speech and the budget that have to get passed -- that only changed under Harper's minority government because he declared every vote a confidence motion. There'd be no reason why the next party in power -- whoever that is -- couldn't go back to tradition and say that outside of the budget and the throne speech, all votes are free votes.

Boogie said:
Canada Poli-GAF is filled with one-note wonders.

Some of us are just more self-aware of that fact than others. ;)
Click to expand...

Wait, am I one-note? I don't think I have a pet cause. An obvious leaning, yes, but I don't think I could ever pull an Azih and turn everything around to a single issue.

Silexx said:
Heck, I think that's why we're pretty civil for a politics thread. We're more interested in talking up our pet causes rather than go after each other. ��
Click to expand...

Screw you!
 
P

Pedrito

Member
Steven Blaney is on tv right now. Holy shit do I hate this guy.

Blaney-Poilievre-Calandra: the holy trinity of professional ass-lickers.
 
S

subrock

Member
lupinko said:
Yessssss, petitions do work.

We're taking that shitty, disgraceful C-24 to court.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/topstories...ged-in-court-by-civil-rights-groups-1.3198285
Click to expand...

Man the comments on that are just absolute shit.

I'm reminded of that cartoonist's breakdown of the Trump strategy. Namely "thinking past the sale". Everyone is arguing the finer points of what constitutes terrorism, and whether a convicted terrorist deserves rights in a given country when really we should be discussing why we need this fucking thing at all?

Is there even a single case that we can point to where we did not have the pre-C-24 tools necessary to deport and block the return of a convicted terrorist? These are just machinations of a jingoistic party to point to their tough-on-terror record and not something the citizens of this country actually need to keep us safe.
 
S

Silexx

Member
http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/paul-wells-on-the-strange-truth-about-energy-policy/

Some good quotes in here.
At last, we’re clear. Oil-sands oil “may have to stay in the ground,” says an NDP candidate, and her campaign manager agrees. But she doesn’t “want this oil left in the ground.” And he agrees with that, too! Today’s NDP: It’s a big tent, unless you don’t like tents.
Click to expand...

We keep talking about the left-wing vote being split, but it looks more like the NDP is trying to split the center vote. 😜


And Harper? “I’ll say what I’ve said to people across the country,” he said at the big debate. “A carbon tax is not about reducing emissions. It’s a front. It is about getting revenue for governments that cannot control their spending.” The Conservative leader is always warning about the dangers of other parties forming governments. But that cost is more credible if the incumbent’s policies provide tangible benefit. Harper’s tireless advocacy of oil exports has not led to the approval of any important new pipeline project. You could almost say that, thanks to him, oil’s getting left in the ground.
Click to expand...

Yooooo. No lies detected here.

Eventually, McQuaig realized the conversation had strayed from the important topic at hand, which was the outstanding work of the previous evening’s debate moderator. “I didn’t say I want this oil left in the ground,” she said at last. “I said we have to have environmental standards.”
Click to expand...

Oh you!
 
E

Expansion Pack

Member
New Forum poll came out today.

Canada: NDP at 34%, CPC at 29%, LPC at 28%, Greens and Bloc at 4%
Atlantic: NDP at 39%, LPC at 32%
Quebec: NDP at 40%, LPC at 23%, Bloc at 17%, CPC at 16%
Ontario: CPC at 33%, LPC at 32%, NDP at 31%
Prairies: CPC at 42%, NDP at 28%
Alberta: CPC at 47%, NDP at 27%
BC: NDP at 39%, LPC at 28%, CPC at 24%

Seat projection: NDP at 133 seats, CPC at 123 seats, LPC at 79 seats, Bloc at 2 seats, Green at 1 seat.

Looks like the Quebec tsunami is making waves in Atlantic Canada. Also, that moment when you realize the LPC only has 1% less support than the CPC but are projected to win 44 seats fewer. Incredible.
 
K

killer rin

Member
cerulily said:
Is this even possible? This sounds like something that would be put up for a Referendum, not a vote by the house.
Click to expand...
The constitution doesn't say how the populace votes, just that it does, and that the seats are divided by province with none going across boundries. So to implement it, you just have MMP count the percentage of each provincial vote instead of the percentage of the country wide vote, and assign seats like that.
 
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