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[Jest Chillin]

Yeah this is not true, sorry (again). Cap is described as peak human in most sources, and his feats are not meant to push him past that aside from comic book silliness. At best you can argue for conflicting messaging on this front, at best, but even the movie pretty much went out of its way to not make him appear super human. The super soldier serum made him peak human, and that means the peak of what a human is capable of genetically speaking any feats that he does are merely the result of that status. You could argue superhuman within the realm of his particular level of peak human being pretty much impossible to practically obtain (but still possible in theory), but that is about it.

Olympic level athletes have not perfectly trained their entire lives (which is the equivalent of the super soldier serum) nor received a drug that basically configured them to optimal human potential. So of course (in conjunction with comic book silliness) Cap will have feats that surpass an Olympic athlete. We are still breaking records as training becomes more comprehensive.

And honestly, Cap not being a superhuman is a part of what makes the character compelling to a lot of his fans. He is not superhuman, which makes his drive and struggle all the more potent, and better reflects his own accomplishments as our own potential.

As for cap not aging quickly, again, optimal genetic potential, We are starting to understand aging from a scientific perspective, we know what causes the accumulation of errors in cell division, and we are starting to figure out how to slow those processes. Some people age much better than others.

The movies haven't shown him as comic level of superhuman and he doesn't commit feats the likes of Thor and Hulk commit but he's still well beyond Peak Human. Jumping out of that plane with no chute, even if landing in the ocean, would seriously injure (perhaps kill) any human being, peak condition or not. Single handedly destroying an advanced air ship is well beyond the capabilities of a peak human as well. In combat, we don't even know to what extent he's exerting himself since his goal is almost always only to incapacitate his opponents.

His aging is hard to quantify in the MCU, since he's only been thawed a relatively short time. How they choose to handle that is anyone's guess but to my understanding it's well documented in the comics. As far as the MCU goes though, any assertions in either direction with regards to his aging are speculation. We can't say definitively if he's got super slow/stopped aging or that it's optimal genetic potential.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Cap jumped off a cliff that was well over 150 feet, rolled, and kept moving as if it didn't affect him.

Peak human?

LOL.

Superhuman all the way.

 

[Zen]

Nothing he performed in Cap 2 pegs him above theoretical peak human, certainly he is a level above what our modern peak human is, but our peak has only been increasing (relatively rapidly) with better living conditions and training.

 

[ShinoguTakeruKoeru]

Cap jumped off a cliff that was well over 150 feet, rolled, and kept moving as if it didn't affect him.

Peak human?

LOL.

Superhuman all the way.

Didn't he land on his shield? Maybe Vibranium can help him absorb the impact and feel like he's landing on a soft pillow or something? I dunno, comic books.

 

[.GqueB.]

People not wanting Franklin Richards in a FF movie done by Marvel?

COme on now.

It's less about the source material and more about the awkwardness of child actors these days.

 

[Zen]

Didn't he land on his shield? Maybe Vibranium can help him absorb the impact and feel like he's landing on a soft pillow or something? I dunno, comic books.

When he jumped out of SHIELD yeah, he would have been hurt otherwise (he was hurt all the same). He used his Shield during the 150ft jump/roll if I am not mistaken, didn't he roll with it on his arm?

Cap also uses the proper arc position meant to slow your velocity on his way down from jumping out of the plane, he also makes sure to superman (forgot the actual term) before hitting the water to dramatically minimize the impact of hitting the water.

Like you said though, comic books!

 

[Mudcrab]

Cap currently in 616 is beyond peak human especially durability wise. In Infinity he tanked a hit from Proxima Midnight's beam which is "lethal to most creatures" which by the way also forced the Hulk to revert back to Banner. Not to mention in his own book he wandered around a hostile environment with a gaping wound in his chest for days.

If movie Cap is based on either modern 616 or Ultimate versions (or something in-between), he'd be comfortably beyond peak human.

 

[Manmademan]

Nothing he performed in Cap 2 pegs him above theoretical peak human, certainly he is a level above what our modern peak human is, but our peak has only been increasing (relatively rapidly) with better living conditions and training.

Eh, busting through walls at full speed like he was the juggernaut (shield or no) is probably past the ability level of peak human. Unless you want to argue those walls were paper or something.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Didn't he land on his shield? Maybe Vibranium can help him absorb the impact and feel like he's landing on a soft pillow or something? I dunno, comic books.

When he jumped out of SHIELD yeah, he would have been hurt otherwise (he was hurt all the same). He used his Shield during the 150ft jump/roll if I am not mistaken, didn't he roll with it on his arm?

Cap also uses the proper arc position meant to slow your velocity on his way down from jumping out of the plane, he also makes sure to superman (forgot the actual term) before hitting the water to dramatically minimize the impact of hitting the water.

Like you said though, comic books!

Except MCU's Vibranium is inconsistent at best. He places the shield up to an enemies face and punches the back of it and the force travels through the shield. He also only partially landed on the shield when he jumped out of the building. Any part of his body that didn't land directly on the shield would've still had the velocity and force to shatter when it hit the concrete.

Also the velocity he would've been traveling at when he hit the water would've made the surface similar to cement no matter what form his dive was in. Beyond even that the force the water would've exerted on him when it re-collapses around him would've been massive as well.

He is Superhuman. No amount of theoretical maybe-humans-can-reach-this-point-sometime-in-the-future-with-every-variable-being-absolutely-perfect ideas explain away his feats.

 

[Zen]

Well Im sorry you are wrong. Nothing he did in the film said superhuman just because you think it is. We can both have a subjective opinion about his feats. There have been a numerous recorded cases of people surviving falls of 150 ft without injury even. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯ Like I said, Steve could be considered superhuman due to the nature of the serum granting him peak abilities that are not practically possible.

Eh, busting through walls at full speed like he was the juggernaut (shield or no) is probably past the ability level of peak human. Unless you want to argue those walls were paper or something.

Eh, maybe, they certainly broke like paper!

 

[Mengy]

Nothing he performed in Cap 2 pegs him above theoretical peak human, certainly he is a level above what our modern peak human is, but our peak has only been increasing (relatively rapidly) with better living conditions and training.

The movies definitely depict Rogers as being superhuman. You can argue about some theoretical "peak human" genetic possibility, but no human alive today or in the past would be capable of doing what the Captain did in CA:TWS. Surviving huge falls, leaping up onto airships, running through walls, running laps around trained military soldiers at like four times their speed? Yeah, he might not be Superman superhuman, but certainly superhuman.

su·per·hu·man [soo-per-hyoo-muhn or, often, -yoo-]
adjective
1. above or beyond what is human; having a higher nature or greater powers than humans have: a superhuman being.
2. exceeding ordinary human power, achievement, experience, etc.: a superhuman effort.

 

[Dai101]

Eh, busting through walls at full speed like he was the juggernaut (shield or no) is probably past the ability level of peak human. Unless you want to argue those walls were paper or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drywall probably.

It's no surprise since most office biuldings have those and only load bearing walls are made of real stone/masonry

 

[Zen]

The movies definitely depict Rogers as being superhuman. You can argue about some theoretical "peak human" genetic possibility, but no human alive today or in the past would be capable of doing what the Captain did in CA:TWS. Surviving huge falls, leaping up onto airships, running through walls, running laps around trained military soldiers at like four times their speed? Yeah, he might not be Superman superhuman, but certainly superhuman.

I can only stand by the power set as it is has generally been described.

But I can also start linking instances of people surviving falls uninjured etc. Peak human would probably still look super human to us today which is why these kinds of arguments (based on what he did in the film) do not really sway me. Even if something does seem superhuman, what I just mentioned combined with the fact (much like the comics have had power creep like Manmademan points out) we are watching a comic book movie allows some brevity with what is and is not possible.

Besides that there can be explanations: like Dai101 posted, a lot of walls these days are not particularly built to withstand a ton of force. He only ran through doorways, and a few walls in the made for cheap office building, when it came to going through brick or anything he instantly went through the window.

Honestly the office running scene seemed like the least arguably super human thing he did in the film. I would peg the 150ft jump as what could be the most clear example of a superhuman feat in the film.

su·per·hu·man [soo-per-hyoo-muhn or, often, -yoo-]
adjective
1. above or beyond what is human; having a higher nature or greater powers than humans have: a superhuman being.
2. exceeding ordinary human power, achievement, experience, etc.: a superhuman effort.

If you want to get super semantical, he does fit definition 2 if by ordinary power you mean average (or even average for upper range human).

 

[Shaanyboi]

That guy looks really good in the costume. Definitely one of the better MCU costumes.

Ugh WHERE'S HIS MASK?!

Spoiler

I kid...

 

[Jest Chillin]

I can only stand by the power set as it is has generally been described.

But I can also start linking instances of people surviving falls uninjured etc. Peak human would probably still look super human to us today which is why these kinds of arguments (based on what he did in the film) do not really sway me. Even if something does seem superhuman, what I just mentioned combined with the fact (much like the comics have had power creep like Manmademan points out) we are watching a comic book movie allows some brevity with what is and is not possible.

But you're not standing by the power set as it has generally been described. You're selecting a very specific set and writing off all the others as 'comic books lol.'

And what is the extent of your definition of Peak Human? Because it sounds like you're taking evolution into account, which is an incredibly large net to cast. His feats wouldn't just require perfect muscular development, perfect reaction times, and perfect mental development but would also require changes in bone strength and structure. A few unamed outliers who likely have mitigating factors in the details aren't enough to say that humans at their peak are capable of reacreating those events consistently.

 

[J10]

First 30 seconds of the movie Falcon says he ran 30 miles in 13 minutes and he wasn't even winded or sweating.

Not superhuman.

OK.

EDIT: 13 in 30.

 

[Calamari41]

With regards to the whole "Were Zola/Winter Soldier really all that important/influential" debate, it may just be me, but during Zola's spiel about HYDRA assassinating people and creating chaos, the black and white shot of Winter Soldier leaning out of a window with a sniper rifle brought the Kennedy Assassination strongly into my mind. Were we meant to think that he assassinated Kennedy, or did my mind just make its own baseless leap?

 

[Alcoremortis]

First 30 seconds of the movie Falcon says he ran 30 miles in 13 minutes and he wasn't even winded or sweating.

Not superhuman.

OK.

Actually, it was 13 miles in 30 minutes. However, that still puts him at an average sprinting speed of 25 miles per hour and he still wasn't winded at the end.

 

[J10]

Jesus. I got the numbers backwards and it's still true.

 

[richiek]

First 30 seconds of the movie Falcon says he ran 30 miles in 13 minutes and he wasn't even winded or sweating.

Not superhuman.

OK.

Cap was also able to take repeated blows from a metal arm, which is probably the equivalent of taking a sledgehammer to the face and survive.

 

[Gorillaz]

Remove that kid's 15 minutes of the movie and replace him with the real Mandarin.

No wait, that's just crazy. The blond white guy with the dragon tattoos works better. The kid stays.

Still pisses me off

fucking Shane Black man

 

[Jest Chillin]

Actually, it was 13 miles in 30 minutes. However, that still puts him at an average sprinting speed of 25 miles per hour and he still wasn't winded at the end.

That puts him at somewhere around a 2:30 mile consistently for 13 miles.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

With regards to the whole "Were Zola/Winter Soldier really all that important/influential" debate, it may just be me, but during Zola's spiel about HYDRA assassinating people and creating chaos, the black and white shot of Winter Soldier leaning out of a window with a sniper rifle brought the Kennedy Assassination strongly into my mind. Were we meant to think that he assassinated Kennedy, or did my mind just make its own baseless leap?

I got the same vibe but wasn't sure if that was just some random short or referencing the Howard/Maria Stark "car accident."

As Pierce said, The Winter Soldier shaped the century with those targeted assassinations and I wouldn't be surprised if in the MCU, HYDRA was behind the Kennedy assassination.

 

[Zen]

Actually, it was 13 miles in 30 minutes. However, that still puts him at an average sprinting speed of 25 miles per hour and he still wasn't winded at the end.

Cap was actually sweating and breathing harder at during the run and the start of the scene by the tree, they kind of dropped it after that.

What is the average jog/light sprint time for a marathon? Like 6-7 miles per hour? He seemed to be sprinting in that clip, not flat out run, but not quite jogging either.

And yeah about that

Humans Could Run 40 mph, in Theory
http://www.livescience.com/8039-humans-run-40-mph-theory.html

We should also start looking into people in africa that hunted down animals by simply out running them for hours. I forgot the term, so hopefully someone else remembers the specifics.

EDIT: Found it
http://runblogger.com/2013/11/can-human-outrun-cheetah.html
Persistence hunting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=826HMLoiE_o

 

[crimsonspider89]

I got the same vibe but wasn't sure if that was just some random short or referencing the Howard/Maria Stark "car accident."

As Pierce said, The Winter Soldier shaped the century with those targeted assassinations and I wouldn't be surprised if in the MCU, HYDRA was behind the Kennedy assassination.

Yeah saw that as well. Can't wait for blue ray. So much dissection to be had.

WIth that scene and the targetting scene, so much to go through.

 

[Calamari41]

We should also start looking into people in africa that hunted down animals by simply out running them for hours. I forgot the term, so hopefully someone else remembers the specifics.

To be fair, aren't most African mammals like cheetahs and wildebeest and so on built for short bursts of speed rather than endurance, like humans are? They didn't "out run" them in the sense that they quickly ran them down like you see lions do in documentaries. They hunted them down over time, finally killing them when the animals were out of juice.

Cap is running at African mammal-level speed for human endurance-level amounts of time. Maybe a human is biologically capable of running at 40 mph, but I can guarantee you that they aren't capable of doing it for a half hour without breaking a sweat or losing their breath.

Edit: thanks for the video, very interesting. But as you can see even there, it is an endurance test: the dudes are briskly jogging for a long time waiting for the animal to drop from exhaustion, not sprinting at it.

 

[Zen]

Oh to be fair, you are right (on all accounts) but it is a persistent run (I mentioned it more for the fact that people were bringing up sustained speed). The point is not that everything cap does is 100% possible in real life (consistently), but rather it is semi-possible/plausible given our own potential, specifically contextualized into a superhero movie or comic book that is going to aggrandize things as a matter of execution and escapism.

 

[Calamari41]

Oh to be fair, you are right but it is a persistent run. The point is not that everything cap does is possible in real life, but rather it is plausible given our own potential contextualized into a superhero movie or comic book that is going to aggrandize things as a matter of execution and escapism.

I think I see what you're saying. So kind of like Cap is the guy you get when you make someone who can run as fast as a human could possibly run AND who can run as long as a human can possibly run AND etc etc. I can get behind that (for movie Cap, at least), but I think by the very nature of that description it makes him beyond human.

As in, maybe a human could theoretically have the biological capability of running as fast as he can, or as long as he can, or lifting a truck like he can, but nobody could ever dream of doing all of them (or even two) at the same time.

 

[Zen]

I think I see what you're saying. So kind of like Cap is the guy you get when you make someone who can run as fast as a human could possibly run AND who can run as long as a human can possibly run AND etc etc. I can get behind that (for movie Cap, at least), but I think by the very nature of that description it makes him beyond human.

Yeah, that is kind of why I said earlier that cap is arguably superhuman because, as a matter of what is possible in a practical sense, what he has is almost virtually impossible to obtain (Seeming genetic perfection and the equivalent of constant perfect training at every moment to be in optimal conditioning). But that is not to say that Cap himself is necessarily topped out in every aspect it is probably fair to say that if he dedicated all his time to powerlifting he could then become even stronger but loses some speed for having done so.

My whole thing with Cap is that he is generally described as absolute peak human, so even when he has done feats that are seemingly basically impossible, I feel like accepting the internal logic of the medium is fair (or lol comics as some have called it or chalking it up to terrible writing here and there). So yeah, peak human gets some leeway in a freaking comic book movie especially when we obviously cannot yet quantify our own peak. It would take them pushing the envelope a little more than they did for my suspension of disbelief to break. For other people it might be different, but to each their own and all that.

We do see people like Bucky are able to hang with Steve for some time, aside from a robotic arm, he has no known enhancements.

 

[CloudyTuba]

Actually, it was 13 miles in 30 minutes. However, that still puts him at an average sprinting speed of 25 miles per hour and he still wasn't winded at the end.

Thanks for that correction, I knew J10's 30 in 13 had to be wrong. That's 138mph.

26mph for Cap sounds a lot more reasonable.

 

[Zen]

Thanks for that correction, I knew J10's 30 in 13 had to be wrong. That's 138mph.

26mph for Cap sounds a lot more reasonable.

So Caps speed would have been marginally over double what this guy did, who ran at said speed for four times longer than Cap. I wonder what the fastest times are for 30 minute runs.

Yesterday, a man named Patrick Makau, from Kenya, put all of our treadmill times to shame, as he shaved 21 seconds off the record for a marathon. Makau, age 26, who was running the Berlin Marathon in Germany on Sunday, ran the 26.2-mile course in two hours, three minutes, and 38 seconds, NPR reported Monday morning.

That’s an average mile time of about about four minutes, 40 seconds. Which is truly, truly unbelievable.

Makau’s time beat the previous record, set by Haile Gebrselassie, also in Berlin.

This feat of outrageous physical endurance and strength is making scientists question how quickly a marathon can possibly be run. Because, of course, the human body has limits. Scientists have even debated whether or not running that great a distance may do temporary (or long-term) damage to the heart.

And yet, every few years, someone comes along and sets a new record, substantially cutting down on the time it took the previous runner. In the last 100 years, humans have managed to slice about 37 minutes off of the record.


Two minutes have been cut in the last 10 years alone.

In April of this year, the BBC addressed the big question: Could a human ever run a marathon in less than two hours? The consensus at the time seemed to be that it may be possible–but would take another 20 years or more to see it done.

But at this rate, it's not that outrageous to believe we could see the speed barrier broken in our lifetime.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/27/marathon-record-broken-new-fastest-time-20338_n_982336.html

 

[Mengy]

My whole thing with Cap is that he is generally described as absolute peak human, so even when he has done feats that are seemingly basically impossible, I feel like accepting the internal logic of the medium is fair (or lol comics as some have called it). The fact that we are reading/watching what could be called modern day myths gives it all a little bit of leeway with believability. So yeah, peak human gets some leeway in a freaking comic book movie. It would take them pushing the envelope a little more than they did for my suspension of disbelief to break. For other people it might be different, but to each their own and all that.

So how would you explain the super healing and 10X fast metabolism?

 

[Alcoremortis]

Thanks for that correction, I knew J10's 30 in 13 had to be wrong. That's 138mph.

26mph for Cap sounds a lot more reasonable.

Yeah, I did the calculation and was like "Waaaaaiiiit. That can't be right."

I could totally see 138 mph as Quicksilver's walking speed or something.

 

[Zen]

So how would you explain the super healing and 10X fast metabolism?

His healing is noticeably faster than a normal persons (again genetic perfection, super soldier serum and all that), but he is no Wolverine.

 

[Zen]

I am still butt hurt that they offed Zola (such a waste of a good villain), you would think that Hydra would have put work into figuring out how to transfer him to a USB or something.

 

[pants]

That guy looks really good in the costume. Definitely one of the better MCU costumes.

I can see the outline of his dick

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I am still butt hurt that they offed Zola (such a waste of a good villain), you would think that Hydra would have put work into figuring out how to transfer him to a USB or something.

I really doubt he's gone for good. Being a computer program with apparent network access, gives them a completely plausible out if they ever want to use him again.

 

[Skilletor]

I am still butt hurt that they offed Zola (such a waste of a good villain), you would think that Hydra would have put work into figuring out how to transfer him to a USB or something.

I doubt he's gone. He probably uploaded himself to a satellite or something like that.

 

[Mighty Chin]

I am still butt hurt that they offed Zola (such a waste of a good villain), you would think that Hydra would have put work into figuring out how to transfer him to a USB or something.

I'd hazard a guess that Zola had already done that. Remember he was just stalling. In the comics he regularly just transfers his consciousness to another location.

 

[Zen]

True that, but they will have to basically but him in another Ah ha! I survived! reveal, which is kind of awkward after inferring his own death and having everyone in Hydra then make mention that they lost him.

Oh well, more Zola plz.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

#zolalives

 

[jon bones]

I am still butt hurt that they offed Zola (such a waste of a good villain), you would think that Hydra would have put work into figuring out how to transfer him to a USB or something.

I'm hoping he is partly responsible for the rise of Ultron.

 

[Krauser Kat]

after watching this movie. I Just got angry at people thinking Master Chief has fucking anything on Steve Rogers.

 

[Calamari41]

I'm pretty sure Pierce is the only one who says that Zola is gone, right? I don't imagine that guys like Strucker and Zola are exactly an open book with regards to their own little schemes and machinations with a guy like Pierce.

Of course, I take it back if Strucker said something about Zola being gone in his scene.

 

[J10]

after watching this movie. I Just got angry at people thinking Master Chief has fucking anything on Steve Rogers.

Like superior physiology and a half ton of armor would ever make a difference in a fight. Absurd.

 

[Zen]

after watching this movie. I Just got angry at people thinking Master Chief has fucking anything on Steve Rogers.

This depends, are we going by the games or the absurd fanwank crap that are the books and such designed to make everything and everyone in Halo seem 2 millions times more impressive than they actually are in practice.

 

[richiek]

after watching this movie. I Just got angry at people thinking Master Chief has fucking anything on Steve Rogers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYSgkqc9EWI

 

[crimsonspider89]

Yeah, that is kind of why I said earlier that cap is arguably superhuman because, as a matter of what is possible in a practical sense, what he has is almost virtually impossible to obtain (Seeming genetic perfection and the equivalent of constant perfect training at every moment to be in optimal conditioning). But that is not to say that Cap himself is necessarily topped out in every aspect it is probably fair to say that if he dedicated all his time to powerlifting he could then become even stronger but loses some speed for having done so.

My whole thing with Cap is that he is generally described as absolute peak human, so even when he has done feats that are seemingly basically impossible, I feel like accepting the internal logic of the medium is fair (or lol comics as some have called it or chalking it up to terrible writing here and there). So yeah, peak human gets some leeway in a freaking comic book movie especially when we obviously cannot yet quantify our own peak. It would take them pushing the envelope a little more than they did for my suspension of disbelief to break. For other people it might be different, but to each their own and all that.

We do see people like Bucky are able to hang with Steve for some time, aside from a robotic arm, he has no known enhancements.

It was implied that during his capture in Cap 1 that Zola used a version of the Super Soldier Serum on him.

When Steve rescued him.

 

[Dai101]

I'm pretty sure Pierce is the only one who says that Zola is gone, right? I don't imagine that guys like Strucker and Zola are exactly an open book with regards to their own little schemes and machinations with a guy like Pierce.

Of course, I take it back if Strucker said something about Zola being gone in his scene.

You're right. No one said anything about Zola except Pierce.

 

[Zen]

It was implied that during his capture in Cap 1 that Zola used a version of the Super Soldier Serum on him.

When Steve rescued him.

Huh I must have missed that?