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[The Living Tribunal]

It's nice to want things.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

I'd imagine this will be another instance of mad 'progressives' supporting a stupid secession without taking the time to consider the long term implications and the motivations of the people behind it.

 

[Cocaloch]

perhaps Catalan would be preserved in that new country but it will be diminished in other autonomous regions just like Valencia

I mean maybe, but I don't think that's ever worth stopping a place that conceives of itself as a nation from acting as such by military force or outside political pressure.

I'd imagine this will be another instance of mad 'progressives' supporting a stupid secession without taking the time to consider the long term implications and the motivations of the people behind it.

Why? Do people really not see the difference between places like Scotland, Catalonia, and the Basque Country seeking self-determination and Brexit?

Should Ireland still be part of Britain? Should Poland be returned to Germany, Russia, and Austria?

 

[trembli0s]

Have they not learned anything from Brexit? They'll be refused membership in the EU, won't have favorable access to the single market, and are going to handicap themselves economically in the future by speaking a language which no one else on earth has any interest in learning and making it their primary language.

Sure, you can teach Castilian Spanish or English in school but why segregate from the broader community of Spanish speaking nations to wave a flag around? It's ludicrous.

 

[Brazil]

What's your problem?

Someone brought up the football teams and I'm merely responding. Also there's nothing wrong mentioning the possibilities no matter how trivial you may think they are. Is that your problem?

It's offensively reductive.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I hope it happens

I love new geography

 

[Cocaloch]

Have they not learned anything from Brexit? They'll be refused membership in the EU, won't have favorable access to the single market, and are going to handicap themselves economically in the future by speaking a language which no one else on earth has any interest in learning and making it their primary language.

Sure, you can teach Castilian Spanish or English in school but why segregate from the broader community of Spanish speaking nations to wave a flag around? It's ludicrous.

You can apply almost all of this to Ireland. Would you be saying the same thing to Irish people in 1915?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Hubris.

 

[EMT0]

You can apply almost all of this to Ireland. Would you be saying the same thing to Irish people in 1915?

...uh. There's a world's difference between the Irish and the Catalonians. For one, Catalonians haven't been treated like a colony of Castille to be exploited for hundreds of years.

 

[gutter_trash]

...uh. There's a world's difference between the Irish and the Catalonians. For one, Catalonians haven't been treated like a colony of Castille to be exploited for hundreds of years.

But Franco did act like a dick towards non-Castlians barring them from speaking their langauges

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policies_of_Francoist_Spain

Under his dictatorship, the Spanish language (known in some parts of Spain as castellano, i.e., Castilian) was declared Spain's only official language. The public use of other languages was either banned

 

[chromatic9]

I'd imagine this will be another instance of mad 'progressives' supporting a stupid secession without taking the time to consider the long term implications and the motivations of the people behind it.

I would've thought mad progressives want less borders and walls and a European state?

 

[Xion385]

Doesn't Barcelona get kicked out of La Liga if they do secede?

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

I would've thought mad progressives want less borders and walls and a European state?

See any scotch independence thread on here and the insufferable marxist bellends who cheerleaded brexit from the left.

 

[Metroxed]

Can any Spanish GAF fill us in on how that region and some others like the Basque region (San Sebastian and Bilbao) seem to be better off economically then a lot of Spain? I know separatist movements in Spain but didn't know they were down to such small regions.

They don't "seem" to be, they are better off economically. Traditionally, Spain has had three economic powerhouses: the Basque region, Catalonia and Madrid, while the rest of the country has been far behind (until the boom of tourism at least). This is due historical factors; in the 19th century only the Basque region and Catalonia managed to industrialise, while Madrid simply benefited from being the capital and the rest just stayed as backwards agrarian regions where most people worked on the fields (in modern times, these people have transitioned to tourism-based services and construction, two relatively fragile and highly dependent sectors).

The Basque Country, where I'm from, is usually the leading region in Spain in many things, including R&D, technology, etc. We don't rely in tourism as the Mediterranean regions do and historically have had a strong industrial background, which in the 90s gave way to technology, advanced services and research.

Before the 2008 crisis (which hit us hard, but still not as hard as the rest of Spain) the Basque Country had a quality of life comparable to the top 3 countries at the time (Norway, Denmark) and a GDP per capita closer to the central and northern European countries. Things have worsened since due to the crisis, but still we have the lowest unemployment rates of the whole country, the highest salaries, etc.

 

[JCHandsom]

Misread the OP as "California to split from Spain" and thought I had jumped into an Onion article or an alternate universe.

 

[JoJoShabadoo]

''Muh flagz!''

Secessionism in 2017. Pathetic.

A solid, informed opinion. You clearly know your stuff!

 

[psychowave]

But Franco did act like a dick towards non-Castlians barring them from speaking their langauges

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policies_of_Francoist_Spain

Franco has been dead for 40 years.

 

[Dinokill]

If this happens I hope Barcelona gets kicked out of La Liga(Will never happen)

 

[gutter_trash]

That's not how any of this works. If being bailed out by France is all you needed to become a French principality, Greece would be happily munching on frog legs by now. The idea that Catalonia would seek independence in order to get greater autonomies, then... sign up to the French state because reasons??? is just mindbogglingly stupid.

France has subjugated their historic linguistic minorities and is one of the harshest Western European countries when it comes to refusing to recognize historic minority languages. (like Occitan for example)

Franco has been dead for 40 years.

his rule lasted 36 years which left generational damage

Doesn't Barcelona get kicked out of La Liga if they do secede?

this would make me happy to Barça get kicked out of La Liga and to see the Spanish national team fractured

 

[psychowave]

his rule lasted 36 years which left generational damage

I'm sure splitting from Spain will repair that damage.

 

[tolkir]

his rule lasted 36 years which left generational damage

Left generation damage in Spain, not only Catalonia.

 

[Bernbaum]

Ah, but do they have a memorable portmanteau describing the event?

Cataloxit?

Cata-loners

Cataloutta here.

Cata-leavin-ya?

These are all fantastic options

 

[petran79]

I remember a blunder a local sports announcer made during a Spain soccer match.
During the national anthem of Spain he was dismayed because no Spaniard was singing!

 

[perfectchaos007]

It's a good time to be a flag designer these days.

edit: It's going to be weird that Barcelona will no longer be part of Spain.
edit 2: Looks like Portugal and Andorra also broke off from the Spanish empire many decades ago, looking at the geography. Such a move isn't unprecedented.

 

[tolkir]

I remember a blunder a local sports announcer made during a Spain soccer match.
During the national anthem of Spain he was dismayed because no Spaniard was singing!

We don't have lyrics at the anthem. That announcer is simply an ignorant.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

I hope it happens

I love new geography

How's South Sudan working out for you

 

[Risk Breaker]

As a Spaniard, from the Valencian Community, we talk the same languages. I think the referendum is idiotic.
I think whatever separates us is a lot smaller than the shared culture and traditions.
Also, almost none of the reasons to secede is real. Getting out of Spain won't suddenly make the economy better and it won't make corruption suddenly disappear. The root of all problems is not on the central government (well, not all).
In the end, I don't even think the vote will ever happen. And if it does, the result won't be recognized.

As a Spaniard with many friends in Catalunya (goddamn is Catalonia an ugly word) that also lived there for some months, I agree 100% with you, and I sincerely hope this doesn't happen. I actually think a unified Iberia (Spain + Portugal) would be great, although I have absolutely no clue about the logistics of such a thing

What Spain and Catalunya need is to kick the fucking fascist remnants out of the government.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Left generation damage in Spain, not only Catalonia.

He's been buried longer than he ruled and the autonomous power the regions wield these days would give him a heart attack.

The only reason he's still in the conversation is because it's politically favorable to shake his corpse once in a while.

 

[Nabbis]

What a cataclysm.


Edit: Beaten

 

[Sean C]

I'm guessing Spain wouldn't accept that, but what would the rest of Europe (and the world) do? And what happens if Spain doesn't accept it?

No other European (or major foreign) nation would endorse Catalonia unilaterally seceding. There's a vested interest on the part of established countries in denying legitimacy to movements like this; even countries like Russia that might, in many instances, be interested in fucking with the western powers, would not do so in this instance because they have their own problems with such movements.

 

[Cocaloch]

...uh. There's a world's difference between the Irish and the Catalonians. For one, Catalonians haven't been treated like a colony of Castille to be exploited for hundreds of years.

That wasn't going on really by the 1910s, if anything the actions of the Irish nationalists made the entire situation significantly more unstable than it had been before. That being said I bet most people now would feel uncomfortable telling the Irish they were wrong.

decades ago, looking at the geography. Such a move isn't unprecedented.

I mean also the Netherlands and Southern Italy. It's not that weird for an empire to crumble.

He's been buried longer than he ruled and the autonomous power the regions wield these days would give him a heart attack.

The only reason he's still in the conversation is because it's politically favorable to shake his corpse once in a while.

The past is never dead. It's not even past.

It's easy to handwave away people that disagree with you politically, but it's often intellectually lazy and pointless at best.

See any scotch independence thread on here and the insufferable marxist bellends who cheerleaded brexit from the left.

Anything in particular about the Scots? Or is it just their gall in even thinking about it that's the issue?

 

[TimmmV]

I'd imagine this will be another instance of mad 'progressives' supporting a stupid secession without taking the time to consider the long term implications and the motivations of the people behind it.

Based on my heavily representative sample of 3 Catalan people, they're most making the "muh sovreignty" type arguments the leavers made last year. That and the "why are we paying for lazy Andalucians to sit around all day not working", even though they moved over to the UK to get a job because they couldn't find one in Barcelona.

It was infuriating listening to that rubbish, they were really pro Scottish independence too, basically only because they thought it would help Catalan independence. They also had the nerve to complain about how small minded and racist British people are after Brexit too!

 

[commedieu]

First i start to work in London-> Brexit happens
I started to work in Barcelona 1 1/2 months ago -> Catalonia independence

Starting to think it’s my fault

Come to California please.

Mr.Eddie Mush

 

[Cocaloch]

Based on my heavily representative sample of 3 Catalan people, they're most making the "muh sovreignty" type arguments the leavers made last year. That and the "why are we paying for lazy Andalucians to sit around all day not working", even though they moved over to the UK to get a job because they couldn't find one in Barcelona.

It was infuriating listening to that rubbish, they were really pro Scottish independence too, basically only because they thought it would help Catalan independence. They also had the nerve to complain about how small minded and racist British people are after Brexit too!

Do you just think all fights for self-determination are wrong or something? Or is this jut a case of people projecting their feelings about brexit onto a very different situation?

 

[perfectchaos007]

Come to California please.

Oh I would love to see California break away from the Union. They need a fresh start

 

[Skellig Gra]

This was bound to happen when the Spanish National Football Team went in the tank.

 

[RocknRola]

It's a good time to be a flag designer these days.

edit: It's going to be weird that Barcelona will no longer be part of Spain.
edit 2: Looks like Portugal and Andorra also broke off from the Spanish empire many decades ago, looking at the geography. Such a move isn't unprecedented.

Portugal was never really a part of Spain to begin with. Portugal itself broke off from the Galacian and Leon Kingdoms, well before the idea of "Spain" was a thing.

From 1580 to 1640 we were ruled by our neighbors (our King went all kamikaze into Northen Africa, because he was an idiot), yes, but that nonsense ended fast

As a Spaniard with many friends in Catalunya (goddamn is Catalonia an ugly word) that also lived there for some months, I agree 100% with you, and I sincerely hope this doesn't happen. I actually think a unified Iberia (Spain + Portugal) would be great, although I have absolutely no clue about the logistics of such a thing

What Spain and Catalunya need is to kick the fucking fascist remnants out of the government.

No thanks.

Love, Portugal.

 

[gutter_trash]

As a Spaniard with many friends in Catalunya (goddamn is Catalonia an ugly word) that also lived there for some months, I agree 100% with you, and I sincerely hope this doesn't happen. I actually think a unified Iberia (Spain + Portugal) would be great, although I have absolutely no clue about the logistics of such a thing

What Spain and Catalunya need is to kick the fucking fascist remnants out of the government.

after what happened to the city of Olivença (Olivenza) serves as proof why Portugal should never unify with Spain.

Portugal is older anyway, if anyone is to unify it's Spain to Portugal not the other way around

Portugal was never really a part of Spain to begin with. Portugal itself broke off from the Galacian and Leon Kingdoms, well before the idea of "Spain" was a thing.

From 1580 to 1640 we were ruled by our neighbors (our King went all kamikaze into Northen Africa, because he was an idiot), yes, but that nonsense ended fast
.

Correct, Portugal is older than Spain.
Portugal never spawned from Castile. Portugal was a county in southern Galicia under the rule of Leon. Then Count Afonso Henriques whooped the invading Moors' asses and retook Lusitanian territory (Lusitania wass pre-Romanized Portugal) and prooved his case as a bad ass king and created the Kingdom of Portugal.


Castile & Leon union with Aragon changed their names to the Spains later in the 16th Century then later just Spain (singular)

 

[EMT0]

As a Spaniard with many friends in Catalunya (goddamn is Catalonia an ugly word) that also lived there for some months, I agree 100% with you, and I sincerely hope this doesn't happen. I actually think a unified Iberia (Spain + Portugal) would be great, although I have absolutely no clue about the logistics of such a thing

What Spain and Catalunya need is to kick the fucking fascist remnants out of the government.

See, Spain had a shot to make this happen the right way. They blew it, in the worst and most pathetic means possible. This extends to most colonies and possessions that have ever been ruled from Madrid. As someone who lives somewhere that was 'blessed' with Spanish rule - You don't want Spanish rule. Almost everything they ruled turned into ash.

 

[TimmmV]

Do you just think all fights for self-determination are wrong or something? Or is this jut a case of people projecting their feelings about brexit onto a very different situation?

These specific people were actually just racist, they were fine throwing round slurs for people from South America/Pakistan/China

But in answer to your question, I'm fine with people wanting self determination. But it's also fine to think their reasons for wanting it are short sighted and just make everyone worse off

 

[Two Words]

First i start to work in London-> Brexit happens
I started to work in Barcelona 1 1/2 months ago -> Catalonia independence

Starting to think it’s my fault

Move to Florida.

 

[santi_yo]

Look at all these Spain lovers in this thread 🙃

 

[Pancake Mix]

Really poor title, OP, the turnout will be absurdly low even if they secure enough ballot boxes (they won't).

Won't be recognised.

 

[notaskwid]

Just have Portugal join in exchange and be poor together.

 

[Z3K]

This referendum has no legitimacy though, so i'm not sure how all of this will play out.

 

[RocknRola]

Just have Portugal join in exchange and be poor together.

Nah, we'd much rather be poor on our own.

 

[Avalanche]

Move to Florida.

And Queensland after that

 

[Walshicus]

This referendum has no legitimacy though, so i'm not sure how all of this will play out.

It has all the legitimacy it needs. Who gives a fuck what the "Spanish" state thinks or does here...

 

[pswii60]

Is this like brexit?

More like Scottish independence.

 

[Prophaniti]

That doesn't mean much. The only thing a potential country needs to be a proper country is recognition by other countries. It's mostly politics. If Catalonia secedes despite it being unconstitutional to do so, and the rest of the western world recognizes Catalonia as a country, then Catalonia is a country. There isn't anything Spain can do about it without damaging its relations with other countries.

I don't think other nations want to set a precedent that this is ok. I don't see anyone important supporting this. A nation divided blah blah blah.