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[Nix]

Games too complex for the feeble minds of western reviewers.

I think it had more to do with the fork stabby stabby, difficulty. Plus, they're more into the shooters of this generation (if RAGE gets a better score, which it will, I will seriously rage) rather than something like a console puzzle game, predominately focused on block gameplay. I personally, really liked finding out how to make continous stairs to climb faster. It was really fun. Can you not jump back onto a box when you're at the ledge of it, on the other side of the screen? I'm guessing not?

While playing the demo, it took me almost thirty minutes to beat the last stage. When I finished, I realized, upon playing it again, you had a create a box item. Did anyone else miss that the first time around...or was I the only one...?

 

[NichM]

Well... We'll talk more about that after the game is released.

Huh? No, Aram's right. The city's never identified. There's a widespread belief somehow that it's Chicago, but that doesn't come from the game.

 

[Eusis]

Well... We'll talk more about that after the game is released.

If you mean to find any cultural markers that'd pin it as a specific city... I suspect that the fact it's a Japanese developed game will spoil that. I got the impression that the cafe Katherine and Vincent were talking in during the first daytime segment of the demo wouldn't be the kind of place you'd likely find in North America, and I imagine there'd be other little quirks that'd have the same effect of betraying where it was developed (beyond the obvious "It looks like an anime!" anyway.)

 

[Riposte]

Demon's Souls, Meat Boy, and Vanquish got good scores despite being hard.

There's a difference between, 'this is hard but i want to keep playing' and 'this is made to force more playtime out of me'

That difference can be two things:

1) Puzzle games are not 3D Action, Platformers, or 3rd Person shooters. Which is to say, are not action games, thus do a particularly good job telling you how stupid you are. You also cannot rely on years of experience with genres because puzzles can be very different from each other.

2) Skill level. Which is to say, someone will be less frustrated if they visibly suck less.

The idea that difficulty shouldn't extend playing time is hilarious, but also incredibly common even among critics. (Maybe even more so among critics.)

EDIT: It is also funny to see how low tolerance for difficulty is. Demon's Souls and Super Meat Boy are barely hard. Really player friendly despite the trials it puts you through. God Hard on Vanquish gets insane at times, especially when factoring score, but I can't imagine a single reviewer got anywhere near that and went with Normal, if not Easy, instead. The concept of a game not allowing everyone be able to beat it is unheard of.


Who wrote the review?

 

[Erigu]

If you mean to find any cultural markers that'd pin it as a specific city...

No, I wasn't talking about that (although we agree about the Japanese quirks)...

SPOILER WARNING: you might not want to read the following if you haven't played the game yet, as that's a bit of a late realization (even if it has little to do with the actual plot):

Spoiler

It looks like the game doesn't take place on Earth. Now, I guess it could still be an American city, technically... on some space colony.

 

[Eusis]

Well, there's also how forgiving a game can be, a very hard platformer that throws you back to stable ground (or has very short stages anyway) is less likely to be blasted than a hard one where you lose a lot of progress from a single death or may have to repeat a whole world as a result of dying too often. Similarly I imagine Demon's Souls would've been a LOT less liked if you lost more than the souls on hand each time you died.

For Catherine: it does sound like it can be relatively unforgiving for screwing up too often, but that was addressed in some ways by the patch as I recall, and it sounds like Easy mode's a complete pushover. Of course, I imagine you can't change difficulty once you start, so that can exasperate frustration.

Erigu: Yeah, I'll have to check back when I play through the game.

 

[toythatkills]

1) Puzzle games are not 3D Action, Platformers, or 3rd Person shooters. Which is to say, are not action games, thus do a particularly good job telling you how stupid you are. You also cannot rely on years of experience with genres because puzzles can be very different from each other.

Catherine isn't a puzzle game, it's an action game.

Rapunzel is a puzzle game. Catherine isn't.

 

[Riposte]

Catherine isn't a puzzle game, it's an action game.

Rapunzel is a puzzle game. Catherine isn't.

It is clearly an action puzzle game, which is still a puzzle game. The idea of intensity in puzzle games isn't new, just check out everything Tetris spawned.


EDIT: Complaining about getting a bad ending is such a bitch move, I don't know where to begin lol. You don't need to play the game again if you don't want to, that's just the ending you got. At worst how much are you going to subtract for a cutscene you disliked.

Phil Kollar wrote this review?

 

[MushroomSamba]

Catherine isn't a puzzle game, it's an action game.

Rapunzel is a puzzle game. Catherine isn't.

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't the game all about figuring out which blocks to pull out in a logical order to advance further up the wall? I only watched some gameplay footage, so it's entirely possible I've missed other sections to this game...

 

[Erigu]

it sounds like Easy mode's a complete pushover.

It's a lot, lot easier than Normal, but you might still get stumped for a while here and there, toward the end.

 

[BiggNife]

I know there was a patch to tone down the difficulty - does anyone with an import copy know if Normal difficulty is still really tough post-patch?

If so, I might play on Easy. I can easily see myself having the same experience than GI reviewer did.

 

[toythatkills]

It is clearly an action puzzle game, which is still a puzzle game. The idea of intensity in puzzle games isn't new, just check out everything Tetris spawned.

Tetris isn't a puzzle game either.

But seriously, the "puzzles," such as they are in Catherine, cannot be approached as puzzles. The player simply doesn't have the time to process them because the level catches up too quickly. All the player can do is move the most sensible looking blocks and hope that it works because the ability to forward-plan is pretty much absent in later levels. When it's very hard, you're basically trial-and-erroring your way a few steps at a time and getting to the top of the tower by memorising your route and performing it robotically through restart after restart. Even the best players will have to go through this. You can't stop and think because when you stop, the level doesn't stop with you.

It's a puzzle game in appearance only, really.

 

[Andrefpvs]

By the way, what's this I hear about serious audio volume discrepancies between normal cutscenes and anime cutscenes?

 

[Frankfurt]

I think it had more to do with the fork stabby stabby, difficulty. Plus, they're more into the shooters of this generation (if RAGE gets a better score, which it will, I will seriously rage) rather than something like a console puzzle game, predominately focused on block gameplay. I personally, really liked finding out how to make continous stairs to climb faster. It was really fun. Can you not jump back onto a box when you're at the ledge of it, on the other side of the screen? I'm guessing not?

While playing the demo, it took me almost thirty minutes to beat the last stage. When I finished, I realized, upon playing it again, you had a create a box item. Did anyone else miss that the first time around...or was I the only one...?

Why are you assuming RAGE can't be a better game than Catherine?

I can't stand most shooters and loved the Catherine demo, but there is NO reason to think RAGE will be worse than Catherine.

 

[Erigu]

I know there was a patch to tone down the difficulty - does anyone with an import copy know if Normal difficulty is still really tough post-patch?

I believe the only difference in Normal is that you get twice as much "continue tokens" as pre-patch. So that doesn't really change all that much. It's still pretty brutal.

 

[Riposte]

Tetris isn't a puzzle game either.

Really? Okay then.

But seriously, the "puzzles," such as they are in Catherine, cannot be approached as puzzles. The player simply doesn't have the time to process them because the level catches up too quickly. All the player can do is move the most sensible looking blocks and hope that it works because the ability to forward-plan is pretty much absent in later levels. When it's very hard, you're basically trial-and-erroring your way a few steps at a time and getting to the top of the tower by memorising your route and performing it robotically through restart after restart. Even the best players will have to go through this. You can't stop and think because when you stop, the level doesn't stop with you.

It's a puzzle game in appearance only, really.

It is a puzzle game which parses the speed of your brain and punishes you if you fall below a certain rate. What you are saying doesn't really contradict anything. It just means slower players will have to retry more often.

 

[toythatkills]

It is a puzzle game which parses the speed of your brain and punishes you if you fall below a certain rate. What you are saying doesn't really contradict anything. It just means slower players will have to retry more often.

Just compare the main mode to Rapunzel, which is an all out puzzle mode using the same mechanics. The main mode can't be referred to as a puzzle game. At best it's 10% puzzle, and that makes it an action game to me.

It's just semantics though I guess, it doesn't really matter whether we're agreed on this or not, it doesn't change the game!

 

[tokkun]

By the way, what's this I hear about serious audio volume discrepancies between normal cutscenes and anime cutscenes?

Yeah, I noticed that playing the demo (PS3). It's moderately annoying.

 

[eroots]

I'm not usually into these sorts of games, but after playing the demo count me in! I really like the puzzle gameplay and looking forward to seeing where the story goes

 

[QisTopTier]

Wait I don't get it, so because you don't have time to think it's not a real puzzle game?

So like if someone puts a gun to someones head and says hey finish this jigsaw puzzle in 10 minutes or your brain decorates the walls. It's no longer a "Puzzle"

Bad example, but the point is there.

 

[toythatkills]

Wait I don't get it, so because you don't have time to think it's not a real puzzle game?

So like if someone puts a gun to someones head and says hey finish this jigsaw puzzle in 10 minutes or your brain decorates the walls. It's no longer a "Puzzle"

Bad example, but the point is there.

It depends. If the jigsaw had a million pieces and the only way to approach it was to just lay all the pieces out at random and hope for the best then I'd say no, it's no longer a puzzle.

Is Catherine a puzzle game? Sure. Can Catherine be played as if it's a puzzle game? No, not really, it can only be played as an action game, so I'm far more inclined to call it that. If you're unsure what I mean, compare the action sequences to the Rapunzel puzzles when you get it. See if you still disagree with my assessment.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Yeah, I noticed that playing the demo (PS3). It's moderately annoying.

Yeah, the in-game volume is very low, but the animated cutscene volume is fine. Weird.

 

[Resolution]

Yeah, the in-game volume is very low, but the animated cutscene volume is fine. Weird.

yeah it's really bugging me as well

 

[Andrefpvs]

Yeah, the in-game volume is very low, but the animated cutscene volume is fine. Weird.

AtlusAram, are you guys aware of this?

 

[Seik]

Tetris isn't a puzzle game either.

But seriously, the "puzzles," such as they are in Catherine, cannot be approached as puzzles. The player simply doesn't have the time to process them because the level catches up too quickly. All the player can do is move the most sensible looking blocks and hope that it works because the ability to forward-plan is pretty much absent in later levels. When it's very hard, you're basically trial-and-erroring your way a few steps at a time and getting to the top of the tower by memorising your route and performing it robotically through restart after restart. Even the best players will have to go through this. You can't stop and think because when you stop, the level doesn't stop with you.

It's a puzzle game in appearance only, really.

I'd say a 'Maniac Puzzles' would fit well for a game like Catherine.

Day 1 buy, I need this piece of fresh air.

 

[Reclaimer]

Played through the 360 demo multiple times, day one for me now! I'm not big anime fan, but maybe I'm just watching the wrong anime as this didn't bug me much. Again, as someone above said, excited for the bit of freshness this will bring!

 

[Gemüsestäbchen]

PS3 is region free and you can get the demo from the US PSN store. If you're 360 only then you're out of luck.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Finaika]

By the way, what's this I hear about serious audio volume discrepancies between normal cutscenes and anime cutscenes?

Man, I really hate this.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Rapunzel is a true puzzle game, and some of those puzzles are nasty. I'm only up to 51.

There's no time limit or falling blocks, just real tough block arrangements.


Still, even though I'm guilty of 'memorizing' the stages, once you understand basic tricks(which sheep train you on between stages), you can perform them by instinct, such as the quick stair trick.

(Making a base of two blocks, pulling one out above them, moving it over, pulling a block out above that, then pulling the lower block out. Boom, stairway.)

 

[Hasemo]

I believe the only difference in Normal is that you get twice as much "continue tokens" as pre-patch. So that doesn't really change all that much. It's still pretty brutal.

Yeah, I've played the first few nights bit pre-patch (because PSN was down when I got my copy), the rest post-patch and I guess the amount of continues you get for one pillow is the only difference on Normal. Still, if it wasn't for that I'd have to reload the game quite a few times because beating some sections required like ~30 tries.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I've heard a rumor that the US version adjusted some stages to be easier. I hope this isn't true.

 

[Hours Left]

I've heard a rumor that the US version adjusted some stages to be easier. I hope this isn't true.

Like changed the block arrangement of the levels? I hope not.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Like changed the block arrangement of the levels? I hope not.

Well, I've gotten Gold on every stage in Normal. If they did, I'll know.

 

[Erigu]

Yeah, I've played the first few nights bit pre-patch (because PSN was down when I got my copy), the rest post-patch and I guess the amount of continues you get for one pillow is the only difference on Normal. Still, if it wasn't for that I'd have to reload the game quite a few times because beating some sections required like ~30 tries.

To be honest, I'm not even sure why there's a finite number of continues. Seems to me it would still be challenging enough if there weren't (and you wouldn't have to bother reloading... which is just an annoyance, not added challenge).

 

[seady]

I am amazed there are still reviewers out there having the gut to criticize a game because he find it too hard. It's like self-admitting he suck.

 

[tetrisgrammaton]

I am amazed there are still reviewers out there having the gut to criticize a game because he find it too hard. It's like self-admitting he suck.

at least he knows how to use the letter "S"

 

[LQX]

I am amazed there are still reviewers out there having the gut to criticize a game because he find it too hard. It's like self-admitting he suck.

I doubt many people like frustratingly hard games. It is a fair critique in my book as some don't want to be constantly replying a section to advance.

 

[DoctorPayne]

I doubt many people like frustratingly hard games. It is a fair critique in my book as some don't want to be constantly replying a section to advance.

Agreed. If anything, reviewers are too afraid to criticize games for being too hard. I've often read reviews where the writer clearly didn't actually enjoy playing the game because of its difficulty, but still gives it a high score and throws out the "maybe it'll be your cup of tea!" line. If it's difficult enough that it'll hinder the enjoyment of the majority, then that's a problem.

 

[Bollocks]

So I played the demo and it's the cheapest demo I've ever played, why even bother with releasing one?! 2 stages of actual gameplay? 5min in total, really Atlus?

While I did like the concept even though I'm no anime fan(sat through the entire dialog so that's an accomplishment for me) the demo did no good to convince me.
As it is from the demo this game would be better of as download only title cause the gameplay part is not really worth a full price title(especially if the whole gameplay proportions consists of climbing stairs), hope there is some variety both in settings and actual gameplay.
The moral system is kinda neat and even though the demo destroyed my hopes I still sort of like it. I'm still as unsure as before the demo ._.

 

[Hours Left]

Well, the "gameplay" is more than just the block puzzles. The adventure portions of the game are equally important.

But if the storyline doesn't interest you, this probably isn't for you, as the game focuses heavily on story and character interaction.

 

[firehawk12]

On the Joystiq podcast, the Atlus guy pretty much said that dual language wasn't an option because they didn't want to pay for the Japanese voices or couldn't afford it. :/

I applaud Joystiq for asking the question at least.

 

[toythatkills]

They should sell the Japanese VA as DLC.

 

[LowEndTorque]

Wow, didn't expect a 9 from IGN.

EDIT: Never mind. I see that Colin did the review. He's the only good and genuine reviewer IGN has, imo.

 

[C-Jo]

I hope an audio patch is in the works. Even over the course of a 10 minute demo, it was extremely annoying.

 

[Curufinwe]

I hope an audio patch is in the works. Even over the course of a 10 minute demo, it was extremely annoying.

A patch to bring in Japanese voices? That won't be happening.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

From vgplus.ca

CATHERINE PRE-ORDER UPDATE
We just wanted to give a status update to all customers who have pre-ordered either version of Catherine PS3/360 with us. This title has become one of our best selling pre-orders of all time. We are expecting to receive the game early next week and all pre-orders on the regular and deluxe editions look to be filled 100%.

Due to the large amount of pre-orders on this title it is necessary for us to begin the final pre-order processing stage tomorrow. This will help us avoid any delays in shipping orders once we receive the product.

Please Note: Today will be the last day for us to accept any pre-order cancellations on Catherine.

We want to thank everyone who pre-ordered any version of this highly anticipated title with us. Your business is very much appreciated! If you have any concerns or questions regarding your Catherine pre-order please email our customer service department for assistance.

wow that means a LOT of people have ordered it for EU/WORLD delivery.
Impressive!

 

[sixteen-bit]

A patch to bring in Japanese voices? That won't be happening.

He said audio patch, not language patch.

If you didn't notice, there's an annoying disparity between game volume and cutscene volume.

 

[Curufinwe]

Oh, I see.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Jeremy Parish's review

http://www.1up.com/reviews/catherine-review

I think this sold me on the game, especially the very last paragraph. For all the whining I do about about games not taking risks these days, I'd be remiss to pass on a game that does.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Catherine isn't a game for everyone, it's true. But in an era increasingly defined by developers' ever-growing fear of creating anything that isn't a safe, conservative million-seller, Atlus' willingness to create and publish something as unique as this is truly commendable. Best of all, it's not just a weird game -- it's a great one, too.

A