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[StreetsofBeige]

DEI isn’t that bad. It leads to giant flops and bad business. Great laughs for everyone. Let’s face it, when there’s a game or movie bombing it’s pretty funny.

You’d think big business would know better but trust me. Working at big companies the people working there aren’t all brainers or business savvy experts. A lot of people are idiots but blessed working at a big company with solid brands that sell no matter who is at the desk. These morons got lucky employees probably 30 years ago did a great job setting the brands with a solid foundation for modern day. You got to fuck up pretty hard to sink the ship. I remember one person who went on leave for a year, so her crew reported direct to the the director. Sales actually improved in her region! Lol. No wonder they didn’t hire a 12 month contract pinch hitter. Lol

It also helps companies not coked up on politics hopefully get more sales (Japanese games, wukong and space marines 2 lately). So for those game companies just keep straight and let the others implode. Sometimes the best thing to do is do nothing while other companies shoot themselves in the foot. Haha.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Diversity doesnt mean they are hiring some randos off the street. the diverse people they hire still need talent and are hired on merit. It is VERY hard to get into the software development companies, especially right now. especially in the gaming industry which is in cost cutting mode. the people they are hiring, even if they are minorities or women are still cream of the crop when it comes to talent.

If you sat down and thought about this for a moment, it just cannot possibly be true.

The Western gaming industry in terms of devs wad like 99% white males for the majority of its history. So the people with the most experience making actual games are white men. I don't care how much of a nerd you are coming out of university, if you've never shipped a game before your degree matters far far less than experience.

The cream of the crop are absolutely white males. It's frankly impossible for it to be otherwise. And then when you consider that CD Project Red is based in Poland, a country with a population thats virtually 99% white also... it's frankly absurd to claim that them hiring minorities and women over white men is them still getting the cream of the crop. It's literally impossible for that to be true.

 

[lmimmfn]

Their track record is good, however preordering anything is out of the question.
I'll wait for all future games, not just CDPR games to release snd see if it's woke
I bought Alan Wake 2 without realising, still havnt played it but never again

 

[SlimySnake]

If you sat down and thought about this for a moment, it just cannot possibly be true.

The Western gaming industry in terms of devs wad like 99% white males for the majority of its history. So the people with the most experience making actual games are white men. I don't care how much of a nerd you are coming out of university, if you've never shipped a game before your degree matters far far less than experience.

The cream of the crop are absolutely white males. It's frankly impossible for it to be otherwise. And then when you consider that CD Project Red is based in Poland, a country with a population thats virtually 99% white also... it's frankly absurd to claim that them hiring minorities and women over white men is them still getting the cream of the crop. It's literally impossible for that to be true.

Back in the day, sure. Nowadays, you need hollywood talent to draw CG quality art. Not a lot of men are doing art majors. game design and programming sure, but not art. thats a degree dominated by women and lgbt minorities.

gears of war was made by like 40 people. things are much different now and you need to hire more than just a level designer who will do crappy art for you in his spare time. if you want writers, graphics artists, audio and cinematic roles, you are going to tap into that demographic anyway. thats where all of that top talent is.

For some reason, we still think a bunch of nerd programmers make up entire 400 person studios. we know for a fact from ex-ND engineers that their programming team was just 30 people strong. thats a 400 person studio. who are the rest of the devs? lets say 100 level designers. you are still 270 people short. thats where those artists come in. all they have to do is hire normally from that gigantic pool of women and they meet their diversity quotas while boasting about DEI.

And yes, poland doesnt even let any immigrants in so if you are worried about a bunch of minority diversity hires ruining future cd project games, thats not going to happen. At sony and ms studios, maybe, but not at cd project or any of the other polish studios. Again, I believe this is a real issue. I just dont think it pertains to CD Project is all. and even at ND and Rockstar, you are not getting in just because you are a black lesbian. I know a guy who got hired at rockstar recently and he had 3 rounds of interviews, one take home test, and one in person debugging session. If he was a faker, he's not getting hired.

P.S this might be unrelated but i think that experienced white male talent you are talking about burned out and left the industry a long time ago. remmeber those rockstar and EA crunch fiascos from a decade ago? guys in the 30s getting divorces left and right because of 80-100 work days or quitting to save their marriages. So all we have are these young inexperienced recent grads who dont have those guys to learn from.

 

[Woopah]

Why even call it dei program then? I just don't understand.

If you don't exclude any skin color or gender it's just simple hiring.

Is the dei name just performative bullshit then?

It must be one or the other, there is not a middle place.

You have a dei program where you have skin/gender requisites or you don't have one and just hire the best people.

We call it DEI because we want an inclusive work culture, where our diverse colleagues are treated equitably.

We have several DEI initiatives and many aren't related to hiring at all.

So for example, increasing our paternity and adoption leave doesn't exclude anyone based on skin colour. Increasing the number of people over 50 in our career development programmes doesn't exclude anyone based on gender.

Does that explain it? I can share more if not.

Seems like you don't understand what people are trying to explain. For ex that last point "Running recruitment campaigns to get more women to apply for jobs in our factories." illustrates it well.
When you have a DEI programme, it means you're not solely hiring based on merit, in your case your company is trying to adjust the pool of candidates based on other factors than their skills, so imagine that you have 4 groups of such people A, B, C, D, your company is trying to get some % of candidates from all those groups, let's say 25 each (of course in reality the % are different but it doesn't matter) => A 25, B 25, C 25, D 25, and THEN you hire yourself base on skills. The problem is that maybe the best people for the job are all in the D category, and you have to hire 50 people, well instead of A0 B0 C0 D50, you get something like A8 B8 C7 D25. See? You still hired all the best candidates that you met, but by doing the filtering first, you still end up not hiring the very best people that you could have hired if you didn't have the DEI programme. That's what people are saying here. It cannot be both.

But we don't do that. When I hire for a job, I don't divide applicants into demographic groups. There's no A/B/C/D %s I'm trying to hit or that DEI has told me to hit.

If I really wanted a more diverse candidate list, I add more people in, not filter people out.

With encouraging more women to want to work in the factories, we wanted to move from "we open a role, 12 men apply" to "we open a role, 12 men and 3 women apply" (these aren't the actual numbers, just to give an idea).

Having some women apply doesn’t require us to filter out any men

So we have DEI initiatives and hire based on merit.

If your company is not publicly traded with outside investors, offshore departments with cheap labour that do most of the work then it's unlikely that you'll have forced DEI.

DEI sexist and racist practices are also rampant on state departments that have a secure flow of tax payers money.

We are publicly traded and do have outside investors.

I don't work in the US so don't really know about state departments.

 

[{insert code here}]

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Right, so after this it is gonna be the "Yeah, we are and have been excluding you, and there's nothing you can do about it" stage.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

the hottest woman in the game is a black chick, Panam

"I'm not racist, I have black friends"

Anyway, panam isn't of african ancestry.

 

[Woopah]

Well DEI hiring practices often ask if you consider yourself some form of minority, a sexual orientation question is becoming more and more common on job application forms.

The interview panel might not be given your exact orientation at the table, but they will know you are in interview flaged as a DEI, our work calls them "guaranteed interview candidates" that's because as long as they meet the "minimum" criteria they get an interview.

So for example we score each criteria 1-7 say we set the minimum score as 4, that means if you get 4-4-4-3 even if you are DEI flagged you don't get an interview because you failed the minimum level. However you would be guaranteed to get one with 4-4-4-4. However say we have 1000 applicants, so we have people coming in 7-6-7-7 who are white men because we don't have enough time to interview anyone with scores below that. However we get 4-4-4-4 comining in who are "diverse"

So if your a white guy at the end of the table with a 4-4-4-4 application and your not asking me to refer to you as Xir, that means your gay.

also before you ask why don't we just set the minimum to 6 or 7, we did but HR told us we had to stop because we where only ending up with white men from blind testing (we don't see names or identifying details until we score an application and are told by the system to book the candidate an interview at the end of the apllication period) so we had to set it "at highest" to a 4.

This is what they state unironically is best.

I don't like that first part at all. A workplace should be inclusive of all sexualities, but there shouldn't be questions about it on the form.

That second part also seems a bit counterproductive to me, but I guess the key questions would be these

From the interview process, do you hire purely on merit? And if so, are those 4-4-4-4 candidates ever the best person for the job?

Key here is “you”. You don’t have the program. Plenty of other companies in the West do.

And even in your company if there is a DEI program, then the candidate pool will be artificially changed.

There is a DEI programme and a DEI team. But that team doesn't pick my candidate pool (they don't pick anyone's candidate pool as far as I'm aware).

Where I work we have DEI and I am told I have to be more intentional about hiring women and POC. DEI is a cancer that needs to be removed.

What do they mean by "more intentional"? If a company wants more women or POC to work for them, then they need to get more of those people to apply. I agree they shouldn't be saying that to you.

That's the best way in my opinion.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Back in the day, sure. Nowadays, you need hollywood talent to draw CG quality art. Not a lot of men are doing art majors. game design and programming sure, but not art. thats a degree dominated by women and lgbt minorities.

Actually, the vast majority of CGI technical artists from the movie industry are in fact male.

For general concept art, modelling etc etc a lot of that is outsourced to teams in Asia these days.

gears of war was made by like 40 people. things are much different now and you need to hire more than just a level designer who will do crappy art for you in his spare time. if you want writers, graphics artists, audio and cinematic roles, you are going to tap into that demographic anyway. thats where all of that top talent is.

Yes, and the majority of them are male (with the admitted exception of writers, that's definitely been a female dominated role).

For some reason, we still think a bunch of nerd programmers make up entire 400 person studios.

Not really.

we know for a fact from ex-ND engineers that their programming team was just 30 people strong. thats a 400 person studio. who are the rest of the devs? lets say 100 level designers. you are still 270 people short. thats where those artists come in. all they have to do is hire normally from that gigantic pool of women and they meet their diversity quotas while boasting about DEI.

But again. You're assuming it's a gigantic pool of women. It's not. And certainly not in Poland where CD Project Red is.

And yes, Poland doesnt even let any immigrants in so if you are worried about a bunch of minority diversity hires ruining future cd project games, thats not going to happen. At sony and ms studios, maybe, but not at cd project or any of the other polish studios. Again, I believe this is a real issue. I just dont think it pertains to CD Project is all. and even at ND and Rockstar, you are not getting in just because you are a black lesbian. I know a guy who got hired at rockstar recently and he had 3 rounds of interviews, one take home test, and one in person debugging session. If he was a faker, he's not getting hired.

I think you're missing the point. The woke mind virus has infected local polish people as well. So, CD Project Red doesn't need to hire immigrants to become polluted by purple haired, thinly disguised communists who want to bring down the patriarchy; they just need to hire GenZ liberal arts students directly out of the universities within the same country.

P.S this might be unrelated but i think that experienced white male talent you are talking about burned out and left the industry a long time ago. remmeber those rockstar and EA crunch fiascos from a decade ago? guys in the 30s getting divorces left and right because of 80-100 work days or quitting to save their marriages. So all we have are these young inexperienced recent grads who dont have those guys to learn from.

Some of them may have. We know of a few like Bruce Straley from ND. But there are still many hold outs, working in senior positions, keeping things from falling completely off the rails.

 

[LectureMaster]

And precisely what contribution does this job provide?

I agree. But if they must have this position to get that fucking ESG check, at least this woman looks less detrimental to actual creativity and game development.

 

[Deerock71]

That's a man.

 

[Boss Mog]

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding that having DEI programmes means you can't hire on merit.

This is not true.

You can have DEI initiatives and always give jobs/promotions to the best person for the job. That's the right approach to take.

DEI is literally illegal/unconstitutional in most civilized countries. Race/gender/sexual orientation should never be used to discriminate job applicants under any circumstance. This includes white people, men and straight people.

 

[delfrickintree]

I just went to an Opeth concert tonight and the crowd was all white incel or turbo chads. Few minorities. Imagine of they did affirmative action for a metal show

 

[FingerBang]

What do they mean by "more intentional"? If a company wants more women or POC to work for them, then they need to get more of those people to apply. I agree they shouldn't be saying that to you.

That's the best way in my opiopinion

Why should you want more women or POC to apply for a specific job? Should we want more men to work at nurseries? More women to work at construction jobs? Many delivery drivers here are black and brown men should we push for more white and Asian representation?

If not, why not?

Are white collar/tech/creative jobs not evenly distributed because of system racism/sexism?

I am genuinely asking and I'm not trying to hit you with gotchas or being an asshole. As someone who works in tech, who has friends in tech and lives with a woman who works in tech, I'm really trying to understand your point of view.

 

[Frwrd]

I don’t care if it’s a dude, it’d be just like good ‘ol times at the pen

 

[PeteBull]

And yes, poland doesnt even let any immigrants in so if you are worried about a bunch of minority diversity hires ruining future cd project games, thats not going to happen. At sony and ms studios, maybe, but not at cd project or any of the other polish studios. Again, I believe this is a real issue. I just dont think it pertains to CD Project is all. and even at ND and Rockstar, you are not getting in just because you are a black lesbian. I know a guy who got hired at rockstar recently and he had 3 rounds of interviews, one take home test, and one in person debugging session. If he was a faker, he's not getting hired.

Last year we got change of goverment/elections with liberals winning big time, we still got conservative/right wing president but prime minister is very liberal/left leaning so country going to shit fast, add to that feminism spreading hard especially in bigger cities and u got plenty wokeness/progressiveness here, especially among women and younger generation, they are already corrupted hard(hook up culture,single moms left and right, independed boss babes, u can imagine all nasty western symptomes and we got it here in many polish women already- except being fat, they are still sane enough to understand they cant get fat while they are looking for a husband, they usually get fat in their 30s and 40s tho

Proof of clown world spreading here in Poland fast

Katarzyna Kotula - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Back to CDPR/their new games, i definitely strongly advise not to preorder their games, hell dont buy it at launch- remember how reviewers of cp2077 lied to players. And i say it as big fan of witcher series(i even watched netflix series;p).
CDPR is full on corpo now, with all its positives and negatives, 0 reason to give it benefit of the doubt, treat it like all other big western gaming company.
Back in its early days we for example had https://witcher.fandom.com/wiki/Romance_card so once we get witcher1 remaster u will know right away if those "sex cards" were kept in the game or censored/removed according to sweet baby inc guidelines for example

 

[Boss Mog]

This is the reality of DEI:



The forced hiring of incompetent people based on immutable characteristics otherwise you will be sued and forced to hire them anyway.

 

[Bernardougf]

Do you people really think a DEI minded HR will do a honest unbiased screening? .. think of a blue hair activist interviewing the condidates and how this people think ... DEI might have started as a good thing ... progression of things shows what happened though... we can speculate all we want.. the results are there ... for anyone to see ...insane longer dev times, exploding budgets and subpar products launched incomplete and/or just failing across the board in western companys, all sony first party sequels this gen were subpar specially compared to their previous games, it dosent take some genius mind to put A+B together and see what changed from 20 years ago to now as far as the dev/employees work force.

Check hollywood for example and the incentives you get for DEI hiring and applying in movies, check the quota conditions you have to do to even enter the Oscar's and compete. And check the quality of movies we were getting untill recently. Things started to change because of atrocious results, but will take tine to cleanse this bullshit.

DEI now is just not some weekly email or board happy tought , its a way of life inside of this companys... and will influence everything, from hiring to work policies/environment and to game development.. from top to botton.

I think we are seeing and will going to see even more a big change in the gaming landscape with ASIA gaining a lot of lost territory, they are pumping out no bullshit games after the other and with CHINA and KOREA improving.. well.. I think DEI will infest westerm gaming for at least 5 to 6 years because is the window they have.. many flops and subpar sales might change that for the ps6 gen ... this gen is lost.

 

[The Cockatrice]

"I'm not racist, I have black friends"

Anyway, panam isn't of african ancestry.

Everything you said was idiotic.

 

[xrnzaaas]

It's like a cycle, a very likeable company turns full corpo and embraces DEI politics, eventually releasing turds instead of new cool games and riding on its legacy for long as possible, some employees leave and start a new company, making a fun new game, but eventually turning corpo and becoming infected with crap employees and bad politics.

A group of talented former CDPR devs are currently making Dawnwalker and that's what has me more interested than Witcher 4.

 

[finalflame]

It never is, because people are people and not machines.

Case in point:
„That man was really assertive”
„That woman was really pushy”

Countless studies have been made about conscious and subconscious biases in hiring, some people in this thread live in a bubble.

Just a bunch of chuds being chuds, as is par for the course. Nothing anyone says or does will change the retards’ minds, they’re just the most marginalized group in the world because of “DEI” and it’s Satan-incarnate to mention any kind of scientifically proven unconscious bias.

 

[Tajaz2426]

Just a bunch of chuds being chuds, as is par for the course. Nothing anyone says or does will change the retards’ minds, they’re just the most marginalized group in the world because of “DEI” and it’s Satan-incarnate to mention any kind of scientifically proven unconscious bias.

Unconscious bias cannot be reliably tested and used as tool to prove discriminatory behavior, that is why they still rely on a set of research done by UW in the late 1990s. It also relies on use of the decisions made by the milliseconds to prove a persons bias. Additionally, they withheld on the research that anyone taking the test again will never get the same answer because each time we look at the words like joy, crime, Asian, etc and associate them with pictures, you’re brain automatically has to go through everything you have ever attached to those words in your subconscious mind.

Their own research data showed that the results did not prove any form of standard discrimination and did not relate to any other forms of discrimination. That info is from the lead researcher themselves having to tell people that using this as an identifier can be dangerous.

Just a tenth or a hundredth of a second when you see a face not like yours and word association can get you labeled a racist. There are many white people, Asians, etc that have never been around other folks and their immutable characteristics and our brains naturally question anything not like you perceive yourself. These are not necessarily discriminatory biases but attachment of variables that the brain uses to categorize memories using them for future situations a person may be in.

We can dig deeper, but I really don’t feel like it. No reason to call folks retards when you haven’t even sourced your own research material.

This is why we stay in school folks, off drugs, and do not get your news and world views from crazies on TikTok with no sourced material. You can start by going to JSTOR, it has almost all research, medical journals, etc on the website.

Good day from this Chud or whatever you are calling me.

 

[Gamerfan81]

This is the reality of DEI:



The forced hiring of incompetent people based on immutable characteristics otherwise you will be sued and forced to hire them anyway.

It's also a reality of who gets into certain universities, graduate schools, and professional schools.

Case in point for medical schools:

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Just a bunch of chuds being chuds, as is par for the course. Nothing anyone says or does will change the retards’ minds, they’re just the most marginalized group in the world because of “DEI” and it’s Satan-incarnate to mention any kind of scientifically proven unconscious bias.

Unconscious bias, aka prejudices, is what keeps species from extinction. The first assessment of our ancestors when meeting the unknown was to decide whether to fight or run. Criticizing that mechanism is beyond ignorance, it's not having the slightest clue of how brains work.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Everything you said was idiotic.

It's a fact panam isn't "black", but go ahead and keep believing what you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

 

[The Cockatrice]

It's a fact panam isn't "black", but go ahead and keep believing what you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Be a racist pos if you want, but that doesnt change the fact that she's black you muppet. Not being African, doesnt mean they can't be black lmao. Her skin color and hair style are all pretty clear. Maybe pun on a pair of glasses or stop being racist.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

but that doesnt change the fact that she's black you muppet.

Oh ok, you're just an insane person, thanks for letting me know not to interact with you further.
She's in fact not "black", she's native american

 

[The Cockatrice]

Oh ok, you're just an insane person, thanks for letting me know not to interact with you further.
She's in fact not "black", she's native american

Native american doesnt mean SHES NOT BLACK LMAO. It's also a fictional america, Night City does not exist in the real world lmaoooo.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Native american doesnt mean SHES NOT BLACK LMAO.

It does in fact literally mean that, that you would actually think otherwise is completely insane.

 

[The Cockatrice]

It does in fact literally mean that, that you would actually think otherwise is completely insane.

>has black skin
>"guys shes white"

Yep, we're done here.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

>has black skin
>"guys shes white"

Yep, we're done here.

She doesn't have black skin, nobody does, her skin colour is brown. Never said she was white, she's native american.

Just keep on proving how unhinged you are.

 

[The Cockatrice]

She doesn't have black skin, nobody does, her skin colour is brown. Never said she was white, she's native american.

Just keep on proving how unhinged you are.

Black does not mean African American only. Anyway, blocked.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Black does not mean African American.

That's correct, it's an indication of african ancestry, and if you truly believe otherwise your education system has failed you.

 

[The Cockatrice]

your education system has failed you.

It certainly has failed you.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

It certainly has failed you.

Looks like the block feature failed you as well.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Looks like the block feature failed you as well.

 

[Trilobit]

Remember people, whenever you start to feel overly emotional about a discussion subject and can't see eyee to eye then it might be good to take a break from the conversation and do something else and return the next day with a calmer mind.

 

[Fafalada]

I don't care how much of a nerd you are coming out of university, if you've never shipped a game before your degree matters far far less than experience.

Eh - the experience of 'actually shipping' matters far less today than it did at any point in history - at least when it comes to actual developer roles.
Yes there's positions where you need that (producers, directors and so forth) but engineers, content creators, designers? Not nearly as much. Also there's an aspect of diversity that many people completely gloss over - the experience mix. It's actually not desire-able to have teams that are entirely made up of veteran developers - you 'want' to have a healthy mix of everything from fresh-grads to people who've been doing this for a good while.

it's frankly absurd to claim that them hiring minorities and women over white men is them still getting the cream of the crop. It's literally impossible for that to be true.

As I mentioned in my other post - the filtering can start elsewhere first - if candidates aren't found in the pipeline (because there aren't any in the market) - recruiters will widen it until they do etc. There's nothing horrible about doing that - ultimately the goal is to get X people in Y months - that's the metrics everyone optimises for, no matter what they say in public.
Also - statistically CDPR is unlikely to be able to hire off of the top anyway (outside of people that 'just want to work for CDPR/games') given their comp ranges are well below what other industries offer. Though the flipside is - highly qualified female candidates are even more contested and harder to get - as there's just that much fewer of them as you point out.

Do you people really think a DEI minded HR will do a honest unbiased screening?

HR doesn't make any hiring decisions (except for HR roles, of course).

insane longer dev times, exploding budgets and subpar products launched incomplete and/or just failing across the board in western companys, all sony first party sequels this gen were subpar specially compared to their previous games, it dosent take some genius mind to put A+B together and see what changed from 20 years ago to now as far as the dev/employees work force.

20 years ago dev-times and budgets were already exploding (relative to what came just years before). That's literally when we got Spore - a project so bloated and messed up it nearly killed the studio that made it - even though it was owned by EA. What you're complaining about is the curve we've been on for decades, it's just hitting its exponential slope now.

Are white collar/tech/creative jobs not evenly distributed because of system racism/sexism?

I mean - obviously distribution of jobs is a product of economic system the world runs on - so the idea of 'making it even' is flawed in of itself unless you agree to change the system itself (and even DEI proponents mostly seem to be against that - at least in US).
Amusingly though - as far as gender distribution goes, I've found western companies to be far more skewed than similar places in Asia - despite what you'd intuitively expect. So there's definitely room to argue society/culture plays a big role in this. As far as the byproduct (toxicity/problematic behaviours) anecdotally at least - I've definitely felt the correlation between less diverse environments exhibiting more of it.

 

[Life Diff]

Based on the youtuber is the same one who.makes clickbait alt right shit all the time I think this is a non story. Especially if you type 'WOKE ideology' in your video title.

 

[ExtendEmbraceExtinguish]

Diversity doesnt mean they are hiring some randos off the street. the diverse people they hire still need talent and are hired on merit. It is VERY hard to get into the software development companies, especially right now. especially in the gaming industry which is in cost cutting mode. the people they are hiring, even if they are minorities or women are still cream of the crop when it comes to talent.

Women and minorities are not new to this industry. Amy Henning was making games 25 years ago. A guy named Ashraf Ismael made AC4 Black Flags, arguably the most popular AC game of the lot. If you've graduated from any university with a computer science degree, you would see that half of the graduates are either asian or indian. the industry heavily relies on graphics artists, most of the art majors are women. the vast vast majority of them infact. should they instead hire men from comp sci majors to draw art? now its possible that the talent of today isnt as talented as yesteryears but thats another topic.

there is a difference between what Sweet Baby Inc is doing and simply hiring women and minorities. If it was that easy to get hired, we would all be working at apple, sony and microsoft.

This. Idiots don’t understand it’s the marketing that is in charge of the beast not the devs.

 

[Wolves hunt in packs]

ffs i don't live in the US nor do i speak english as native language... so i'm learning a ton here... things like Woke or last week i had to google what is inclusion, and now DEI, interesting times.
Edit: ok DEI is some kind of all the things i mentioned above lol.

 

[HL3.exe]

Says alot about if you take the word of a random dumbfuck on twitter.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Eh - the experience of 'actually shipping' matters far less today than it did at any point in history - at least when it comes to actual developer roles.
Yes there's positions where you need that (producers, directors and so forth) but engineers, content creators, designers? Not nearly as much.

The bolded was exactly what I was driving at. I wasn't trying to imply that you need a team made up of 100% veteran devs, as many examples of this in the industry have failed miserably (e.g. 343i and many of MS's failed internal studios).

If your senior folks leading the creative development of a project (including senior engineers, tech. artists and designers) are wholly inexperienced, as a studio you will suffer far more and be far more at risk of creating a rushed and/or bad game.

Experience for the decision-makers of a dev teams counts for far more than qualifications. I'm sure you wouldn't deny that.

Also there's an aspect of diversity that many people completely gloss over - the experience mix. It's actually not desire-able to have teams that are entirely made up of veteran developers - you 'want' to have a healthy mix of everything from fresh-grads to people who've been doing this for a good while.

I don't disagree with this at all, and I would strongly endorse this if this was what was meant by dev studios and publishers when they talk about diversity. Unfortunately, it's not. When companies in the West talk about diversity, it's merely restricted to sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, ability/disability and most importantly race; i.e. all things that are either in part or wholly orthogonal to development experience or even perspective.

As I mentioned in my other post - the filtering can start elsewhere first - if candidates aren't found in the pipeline (because there aren't any in the market) - recruiters will widen it until they do etc. There's nothing horrible about doing that - ultimately the goal is to get X people in Y months - that's the metrics everyone optimises for, no matter what they say in public.

Nobody is arguing against this. But when a studio writes clearly on their own website that they have programs specifically restricted to women and minorities (therefore directly discriminating against white men) to grant them fast track employment and promotion opportunities, it's clear that what you describe is not what is happening at these companies who are pushing DEI over purely merit-based hiring.

Also - statistically CDPR is unlikely to be able to hire off of the top anyway (outside of people that 'just want to work for CDPR/games') given their comp ranges are well below what other industries offer. Though the flipside is - highly qualified female candidates are even more contested and harder to get - as there's just that much fewer of them as you point out.

Sure, but when I talk about the cream of the crop in the hiring pool, I'm only talking about the pool of candidates wanting to work for a game studio. Those who care more about money that any desire to work for a game studio would have already filtered themselves out of that pool as your say.

 

[HJuggernaut]

I wouldnt mind yo play as Ciri. Feels like a natural progression of the game. If Ciri in W3 was a boy named Cirion, would any of you had any problem to be the main character in W4? Not every women MC is scandalos.

who said we weren't getting a Ciri game? this is what most fans want.

 

[JayK47]

Good grief. How many times does it need to be said? CD Projekt Red has increased in size significantly and now has studios outside of Poland. They purchased a game studio in Vancouver in in March 2021 and they purchased a studio in Boston in October 2021. This was all done after their last full game release, Cyberpunk, in 2020. So to think this is now the same company that made The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk is asinine. These new studios are not in "mostly white" Poland and absolutely made CD Projekt Red more "diverse" per DEI requirements. If you have been paying attention to why there is so much DEI in western games, it is because it is tied to the funding. No DEI department and DEI hires, no funding. CD Projekt no doubt picked those studios for that reason.

It is not hard to imagine that these studios and the DEI hires within them will affect future games. Any future Witcher games will likely have more in common with the awful Netflix series than the past games.

 

[Boss Mog]

Just a bunch of chuds being chuds, as is par for the course. Nothing anyone says or does will change the retards’ minds, they’re just the most marginalized group in the world because of “DEI” and it’s Satan-incarnate to mention any kind of scientifically proven unconscious bias.

No chuds here I'm afraid, just people with high enough IQs and morals to understand that DEI is evil and dangerous.

 

[nush]

First of all, I HATE having to disclose my goddamn race, gender and GODDAMN SEXUAL ORIENTATION when applying to jobs, knowing full well those will play against me when it will come to choosing a candidate.

When I see that along with the disclaimer "This won't be used against you in the hiring process" I know god damn well it will be as I'm white and straight. So I just check the gay box, it's not like they are going to ask me to suck a dick in the job interview to prove it.

 

[FingerBang]

When I see that along with the disclaimer "This won't be used against you in the hiring process" I know god damn well it will be as I'm white and straight. So I just check the gay box, it's not like they are going to ask me to suck a dick in the job interview to prove it.

I honestly always pick the "decide not to disclose" button when available or refuse to self-identify.

That said, I understand that many times it might be used just to collect stats about the demographics. I can believe that being one of the reasons, but it's funny to me how it's automatically perceived as a "straight white men won't get the job".

 

[Woopah]

Explain how can you be inclusive and using meritocracy at the same time in a European country with less of 5% immigrants. Can you do?

Of course, because lots of DEI initives can have nothing to do with skin colour or hiring.

For example, CDPR has introduced a menstrual leave policy for its colleagues. This policy doesn't prevent a meritocracy, and Poland's % of immigrants is irrelevant to it.

Or to give one from my company, we had a wheelchair-user from a customer
come in and talk about how we can make our company more inclusive to people with disabilities.

Again, doesn't stop up hiring based on merit and it doesn't matter what the immigrant % is.

DEI is literally illegal/unconstitutional in most civilized countries. Race/gender/sexual orientation should never be used to discriminate job applicants under any circumstance. This includes white people, men and straight people.

Fully agree with the bolded. But having DEI initiatives doesn't require you do that.

To give a gaming example, Nintendo of Japan has implemented a Diversity & Inclusion initiative to give employees in same-sex relationships the same benefits as employees who are married. Having this policy does not require any job applicants to be discriminated against.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Of course, because lots of DEI initives can have nothing to do with skin colour or hiring.

For example, CDPR has introduced a menstrual leave policy for its colleagues. This policy doesn't prevent a meritocracy, and Poland's % of immigrants is irrelevant to it.

Or to give one from my company, we had a wheelchair-user from a customer
come in and talk about how we can make our company more inclusive to people with disabilities.

Again, doesn't stop up hiring based on merit and it doesn't matter what the immigrant % is.


Fully agree with the bolded. But having DEI initiatives doesn't require you do that.

To give a gaming example, Nintendo of Japan has implemented a Diversity & Inclusion initiative to give employees in same-sex relationships the same benefits as employees who are married. Having this policy does not require any job applicants to be discriminated against.

When people talk DEI politics in gaming companies were talking them pushing agendas and politics in their games jamming it into gamers face with nothing to do with the game plot.

It’s really no different than a game studio pushing to the world why the Pat Mahomes and the chiefs are the best NFL team. Why that would have anything to do with a shooter or mafia plot I don’t know. But there’s nothing stopping a bunch of hardcore KC fans jamming that into a game to push their agenda.

Anti-DEI people aren’t complaining about improvements to personal benefits a company gives employees like same sex benefits, covering kids tuitions, or a boost to foot massage budget. Do what they want internally.

Just don’t fuck up the product sold to customers.