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[Woopah]

Why should you want more women or POC to apply for a specific job? Should we want more men to work at nurseries? More women to work at construction jobs? Many delivery drivers here are black and brown men should we push for more white and Asian representation?

If not, why not?

(I've tried to answer in some detail, so apology for the long post).

First of all DEI is about much more than skin colour or gender.

But in general, we want our company to cast as wide a net as possible. For the factory jobs, why target 50% of the population (men) when we could target 100%?

And yet for a long time we were restricting our potential talent pool to just 50% of the population. Just because of the habit/bias that "blue collor jobs are men's jobs."

There was some sense in that when all the work was manual labour. But in the age of automation that logic doesn't hold up.

To give an example in the opposite example, nursing has tradionally been seen as a "women's job". That can be offputting for the other 50% of the population, so some hospitals are targeting adverts are getting more men interested. This helps broaden their talent pool.

Are white collar/tech/creative jobs not evenly distributed because of system racism/sexism?

We did a review at my company some years and, while we did find examples of direct racism/sexism, by far the main issue was unconscious bias.

When I joined my company, the entire leadership team in Europe were white men. Even for the business in India, Africa and the Middle East, the leadership team was mostly white men.

We were stuck in a cycle where, by and large, the senior leaders were mentoring, training and promoting people who looked like them / played golf with them / had gone to the same business school as them.

On top of that, there's the issue that having children tends to negatively affect women's careers but not men's careers.

This is not limited to one company.

Its not true anymore, but at one point the biggest UK companies had more CEOs called Peter than CEOs who were women. That doesn't happen if everyone has equal access to development opportunities.

I am genuinely asking and I'm not trying to hit you with gotchas or being an asshole. As someone who works in tech, who has friends in tech and lives with a woman who works in tech, I'm really trying to
understand your point of view.

Thank you for being genuine. I hope I've answered your questions.

 

[lmimmfn]

Good grief. How many times does it need to be said? CD Projekt Red has increased in size significantly and now has studios outside of Poland. They purchased a game studio in Vancouver in in March 2021 and they purchased a studio in Boston in October 2021. This was all done after their last full game release, Cyberpunk, in 2020. So to think this is now the same company that made The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk is asinine. These new studios are not in "mostly white" Poland and absolutely made CD Projekt Red more "diverse" per DEI requirements. If you have been paying attention to why there is so much DEI in western games, it is because it is tied to the funding. No DEI department and DEI hires, no funding. CD Projekt no doubt picked those studios for that reason.

It is not hard to imagine that these studios and the DEI hires within them will affect future games. Any future Witcher games will likely have more in common with the awful Netflix series than the past games.

You hit the nail on the head, it's almost certain that the next CD Project game will be woke trash.

 

[Woopah]

When people talk DEI politics in gaming companies were talking them pushing agendas and politics in their games jamming it into gamers face with nothing to do with the game plot.

It’s really no different than a game studio pushing to the world why the Pat Mahomes and the chiefs are the best NFL team. Why that would have anything to do with a shooter or mafia plot I don’t know. But there’s nothing stopping a bunch of hardcore KC fans jamming that into a game to push their agenda.

Anti-DEI people aren’t complaining about improvements to personal benefits a company gives employees like same sex benefits, covering kids tuitions, or a boost to foot massage budget. Do what they want internally.

Just don’t fuck up the product sold to customers.

But that's not what a lot of people in this thread are saying.

Yes there's complaints about potential future stories, but also that having a DEI programme will prevent CDPR from being a meritocracy.

Yet the focus of their DEI page is on benefits, work environment and updkilling.

 

[DeafTourette]

Diversity doesnt mean they are hiring some randos off the street. the diverse people they hire still need talent and are hired on merit. It is VERY hard to get into the software development companies, especially right now. especially in the gaming industry which is in cost cutting mode. the people they are hiring, even if they are minorities or women are still cream of the crop when it comes to talent.

Women and minorities are not new to this industry. Amy Henning was making games 25 years ago. A guy named Ashraf Ismael made AC4 Black Flags, arguably the most popular AC game of the lot. If you've graduated from any university with a computer science degree, you would see that half of the graduates are either asian or indian. the industry heavily relies on graphics artists, most of the art majors are women. the vast vast majority of them infact. should they instead hire men from comp sci majors to draw art? now its possible that the talent of today isnt as talented as yesteryears but thats another topic.

there is a difference between what Sweet Baby Inc is doing and simply hiring women and minorities. If it was that easy to get hired, we would all be working at apple, sony and microsoft.

Right. This is the same attitude folks give when talking about Affirmative Action... You still need to QUALIFY for the job/placement... But it gives folks a foot in the door to do what they trained to do/studied for.

Every time I hear someone say "they let in someone less qualified" as if you don't have the intelligence or training to do the job to GET hired/placed ... It sounds like they're saying "a white person was better suited or right for it than this DEI/AA person" ... Because that IS what they're saying... Dismissing entirely that you STILL need to QUALIFY

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Right. This is the same attitude folks give when talking about Affirmative Action... You still need to QUALIFY for the job/placement... But it gives folks a foot in the door to do what they trained to do/studied for.

Every time I hear someone say "they let in someone less qualified" as if you don't have the intelligence or training to do the job to GET hired/placed ... It sounds like they're saying "a white person was better suited or right for it than this DEI/AA person" ... Because that IS what they're saying... Dismissing entirely that you STILL need to QUALIFY

That’s a crock a shit.

Affirmative action gives less qualified people hired for a job or school admissions entry due to race. Asians in US university admissions getting hosed despite higher marks because according the the school wants to balance the ratios out as the notice the skew is too high to Asians.

Getting admitted into a school has to do with race and a DEI thing. No different than companies trying to fudge their employee check box ratio %’s for PR or qualifying for federal bids on government contacts which can mandate DEI quota splits.

Nobody anti-DEI says anything about wanting more whites people in. It’s all about whomever qualifies best (along with being within budget and and having a good attitude). And whomever gets it gets it.

The highest level jobs, avg salary and education marks all skew Asian. Nobody cares if a minority group who scores highest because if Asians get the best marks and jobs due to merit that’s ok. They earned it. Nobody says let’s get rid of Asians and put more whites in.

What people don’t want are less qualified dumbasses getting the golden bag over someone else who should get it. But due to politics and ratio boxes on a clipboard the hiring process and school admissions get borked.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

Whatever they've been doing, just refine and iterate.

CP 2077 was a masterwork...even before PL.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Right. This is the same attitude folks give when talking about Affirmative Action... You still need to QUALIFY for the job/placement... But it gives folks a foot in the door to do what they trained to do/studied for.

Every time I hear someone say "they let in someone less qualified" as if you don't have the intelligence or training to do the job to GET hired/placed ... It sounds like they're saying "a white person was better suited or right for it than this DEI/AA person" ... Because that IS what they're saying... Dismissing entirely that you STILL need to QUALIFY

Even if what you said is true, in practice it means that, in order to become a "diverse" company, white men are rejected in favor of minorities. For the color of their skin, their gender or their sexual orientation. And that's wrong. I'm sure you know why.

As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy.

 

[DeafTourette]

Even if what you said is true, in practice it means that, in order to become a "diverse" company, white men are rejected in favor of minorities. For the color of their skin, their gender or their sexual orientation. And that's wrong. I'm sure you know why.

As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy.

Ok. Let's go with that.

Say there's two white men who are both qualified for a job or school placement... But they pick the guy with a disability because he has a unique perspective that the non-disabled white man doesn't. Is THAT discrimination? Is THAT evil? Is THAT wrong? Or what if the one they hire grew up in a trailer park while the one who didn't get hired was born with a silver spoon in his mouth... What then? Is it still a rejection?

As a black man, I have different perspectives on certain things than you might... Even if we have SOME things in common and similar training/skills. My experiences color my perspectives... Just as yours do.

Even with AA/DEI, the numbers show that white men are still the stat quo in videogame business hirings. At least in the US, Canada and Europe.

Ask yourself, "Is it a rejection still if two white men of similar training and skills apply for a job or school placement and only one gets the job?"

You're already dividing people as if the white man is MORE deserving of the job, all things being equal, than the woman or POC. As if the woman or POC aren't able to do the job they applied for. Especially if every other job they applied for went to a white man instead... Which is why these programs exist. Or existed. Merit means nothing if all it means is keeping the business homogeneous.

 

[Tajaz2426]

I

Right. This is the same attitude folks give when talking about Affirmative Action... You still need to QUALIFY for the job/placement... But it gives folks a foot in the door to do what they trained to do/studied for.

Every time I hear someone say "they let in someone less qualified" as if you don't have the intelligence or training to do the job to GET hired/placed ... It sounds like they're saying "a white person was better suited or right for it than this DEI/AA person" ... Because that IS what they're saying... Dismissing entirely that you STILL need to QUALIFY

That’s not what anyone is saying. I’m not going to go into this to far as reading what you wrote made me feel like you watch TikTok for your news.

Plenty of corporations use diversity over qualifications.

I’ll name one. The FAA started using collegiate graduates in 1997 for their hiring pipeline and using those directives to hire the most qualified trainees available.

Around 2013 Michael Huerta said he was not pleased with the mix of controllers, so the FAA, not the air traffic controllers stopped allowing graduates straight into the programs they studied for. They started using a biographical questionnaire that actually gave you more points of you had been unemployed for three years than being employed as a pilot, ground coordinator, etc. it gave points to where you grew up, your racial background, etc and points were awarded.

They also found that the top 84-100 on the ATC assessment were white and Asian, so they lowered to hire from the 70 percent pool.

This cost actual graduates who studied for it and the top 3000 applicants to be passed over because they were not hired because of the first assessment being a biological background test.

There are many companies who hire like this and use biological assessments as there first hiring practices. The FAA was the government and actually tried did till it was scrapped in 2018 after tons of litigation.

Can we also please dispense with the white people tripe, it takes very low intelligence when we can be sourcing real data. White people aren't even the first or second highest earners in America and no ones cares, they just want the best qualified for the job.

This has become boring.

 

[DeafTourette]

I
That’s not what anyone is saying. I’m not going to go into this to far as reading what you wrote made me feel like you watch TikTok for your news.

Plenty of corporations use diversity over qualifications.

I’ll name one. The FAA started using collegiate graduates in 1997 for their hiring pipeline and using those directives to hire the most qualified trainees available.

Around 2013 Michael Huerta said he was not pleased with the mix of controllers, so the FAA, not the air traffic controllers stopped allowing graduates straight into the programs they studied for. They started using a biographical questionnaire that actually gave you more points of you had been unemployed for three years than being employed as a pilot, ground coordinator, etc. it gave points to where you grew up, your racial background, etc and points were awarded.

They also found that the top 84-100 on the ATC assessment were white and Asian, so they lowered to hire from the 70 percent pool.

This cost actual graduates who studied for it and the top 3000 applicants to be passed over because they were not hired because of the first assessment being a biological assessment.

There are many companies who hire like this a use biological assessments as there first hiring practices. The FAA was the government and actually tried did till it was scrapped in 2018 after tons of litigation.

Can we also please dispense with the white people tripe, it takes very low intelligence when we can be sourcing real data. White people are even the first or second highest earners in America and no ones cares, they just want the best qualified for the job.

This has become boring.

Do you have said data to back up what you said?

From what I've gathered, most colleges use personal essays to determine those who may benefit from being at the college. If their personal story is unique and compelling. That's ALONG with their grades and personal drive, per the essay. That gives some a leg up ... The biggest AA beneficiaries are white women, btw. Not black and brown folks. Contrary to popular belief.

 

[Tajaz2426]

Do you have said data to back up what you said?

From what I've gathered, most colleges use personal essays to determine those who may benefit from being at the college. If their personal story is unique and compelling. That's ALONG with their grades and personal drive, per the essay. That gives some a leg up ... The biggest AA beneficiaries are white women, btw. Not black and brown folks. Contrary to popular belief.

The FAA biological assessment if for all to see. The hiring practices were put in the open. It passed over 3000 applicants and lowered the standards for the assessments for a lower entry barrier.

I think you may be quoting me, but trying to have a debate with another person.

 

[DeafTourette]

The FAA biological assessment if for all to see. The hiring practices were put in the open. It passed over 3000 applicants and lowered the standards for the assessments for a lower entry barrier.

I think you may be quoting me, but trying to have a debate with another person.

I meant to quote you. I apologize if my wording is confusing... Things make sense to me but not to others sometimes.

 

[Puscifer]

Well, gotta admit that, even their DEI director is hotter than your everyday American liberal women, lmao.

I mean when you're hiring people from all over the world you tend to have someone like this that makes the transition easier for everyone so they can fit in. I doubt she's there to make some blue haired dragon dildo feel like they can takeover the workplace.

 

[DeafTourette]

I meant to type more in that comment but anywho... I'll just put it here...

So I went to the FAA site for hiring ATCs:

Air Traffic Controller (ATC) Hiring Process

Embark on a rewarding career as an Air Traffic Controller. Air Traffic Controllers earn an average salary of $127,805 and are usually unionized workers. They receive enticing benefits and retirement is around the age of 56. Air Traffic Controllers have an important role to play, and thus the...

www.tsatestprep.com

and under Biographical Assessment it states:

Biographical Assessment (BA)
If you are part of pool 2 and you successfully complete the application you will be directed to take a Biographical Assessment (BA). Those eligible for pool 1 are exempt from taking the Biographical Assessment. The BA is an online personality test used to screen applicants and make sure they have the traits needed to be an Air Traffic Controller. The BA is pass/fail, if you fail you will be eliminated from the hiring process.

I'm not going to apply and take the BA because I have a job ... But the description doesn't sound too bad or SBI-like.

Further, the AI overview after searching for FAA Biographical Questionnaire states:

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) removed the Biographical Assessment as a screening tool for air traffic controller applicants in 2018. All applicants without experience are now required to take the Air Traffic Skills Assessment (ATSA). The ATSA is a pre-employment test that evaluates the skills and attributes needed to be successful as an air traffic controller.

In 2019, the Mountain States Legal Foundation (MSLF) filed a class action lawsuit against the FAA, alleging that the Biographical Assessment was racially discriminatory and harmed aspiring air traffic controllers. The lawsuit claimed that the FAA's hiring policies gave preference to less qualified candidates. The lawsuit also claimed that the FAA's actions were illegal and contrary to the principles of fairness and justice.

A biographical questionnaire, also known as a biodata test or life experience questionnaire, is a tool used in the hiring process to measure a candidate's behavioral consistency.

The lawsuit is still ongoing with no decision yet I'd like to see them argue it in court with evidence from both sides and not rely on hearsay or speculation from either side. Hard data only.

This is FASCINATING! Thank you for putting it on my radar!

I guess I'm just putting it out there that I looked up what you mentioned and I haven't come to a conclusion yet, especially since what I read on their site doesn't seem bad AND that the lawsuit is ongoing and there's a lot to look into. I'm having to go to sleep soon so I can't do a deep dive like I want to.

I appreciate the civil and respectful discourse!

 

[Tajaz2426]

I meant to type more in that comment but anywho... I'll just put it here...

So I went to the FAA site for hiring ATCs:

Air Traffic Controller (ATC) Hiring Process

Embark on a rewarding career as an Air Traffic Controller. Air Traffic Controllers earn an average salary of $127,805 and are usually unionized workers. They receive enticing benefits and retirement is around the age of 56. Air Traffic Controllers have an important role to play, and thus the...

www.tsatestprep.com

and under Biographical Assessment it states:



I'm not going to apply and take the BA because I have a job ... But the description doesn't sound too bad or SBI-like.

Further, the AI overview after searching for FAA Biographical Questionnaire states:



The lawsuit is still ongoing with no decision yet I'd like to see them argue it in court with evidence from both sides and not rely on hearsay or speculation from either side. Hard data only.

This is FASCINATING! Thank you for putting it on my radar!

I guess I'm just putting it out there that I looked up what you mentioned and I haven't come to a conclusion yet, especially since what I read on their site doesn't seem bad AND that the lawsuit is ongoing and there's a lot to look into. I'm having to go to sleep soon so I can't do a deep dive like I want to.

I appreciate the civil and respectful discourse!

I don’t have much time either tonight, however, please expound on how you do not think a biological questionnaire that has questions awarding more points for not having a job, over military experience. Being a pilot only gave two pints while being an actual military ATC personnel gave you zero, is not a bad hiring practice.

The questions and using it as a first basis assessment, already guarantees the best will not get any further in the hiring process.

They had to end their own program in 2018 and go back to skills based assessments for their hiring procedures, per their own SOPs.

Edit: also thank you for a good debate so far, I too look forward to more evidence coming out and hard data to see exactly how the program was ran behind closed doors, through emails, instant chats and all that good info we will get to parse through for days.

 

[JayK47]

Ok. Let's go with that.

Say there's two white men who are both qualified for a job or school placement... But they pick the guy with a disability because he has a unique perspective that the non-disabled white man doesn't. Is THAT discrimination? Is THAT evil? Is THAT wrong? Or what if the one they hire grew up in a trailer park while the one who didn't get hired was born with a silver spoon in his mouth... What then? Is it still a rejection?

As a black man, I have different perspectives on certain things than you might... Even if we have SOME things in common and similar training/skills. My experiences color my perspectives... Just as yours do.

Even with AA/DEI, the numbers show that white men are still the stat quo in videogame business hirings. At least in the US, Canada and Europe.

Ask yourself, "Is it a rejection still if two white men of similar training and skills apply for a job or school placement and only one gets the job?"

You're already dividing people as if the white man is MORE deserving of the job, all things being equal, than the woman or POC. As if the woman or POC aren't able to do the job they applied for. Especially if every other job they applied for went to a white man instead... Which is why these programs exist. Or existed. Merit means nothing if all it means is keeping the business homogeneous.

Assuming every person is unique, each person should have a unique perspective. DEI elevates certain perspectives above others. Who decides which perspectives are more worthy? It all seems so relative and is not backed by any data. It is all feelings based. No real world data backs up DEI as increasing productivity, creativity, or profitability. It does the opposite.

Why bother arguing though? I'd sooner convince a cult member to leave the cult.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Assuming every person is unique, each person should have a unique perspective. DEI elevates certain perspectives above others. Who decides which perspectives are more worthy? It all seems so relative and is not backed by any data. It is all feelings based. No real world data backs up DEI as increasing productivity, creativity, or profitability. It does the opposite.

Why bother arguing though? I'd sooner convince a cult member to leave the cult.

In the OT tab, DF does most of his posts and he will always skew supporting the poor guy or minority, and goes against cops as much as possible. But you can see why. Every once in a while he'll go on a mini tirade (including getting banned) where he'll tell people how miserable his life is. By the sounds of it he's somewhere in his 40s or 50s (I dont think he's a young guy), never had a good job and doesnt sound like he has much money as he said he even had to move back home with family early this year I think.

He hates when people bring up merit, earning a good job, higher education or people who are happy about high paying jobs (which someone might have).

And any time a topic comes up involving race or DEI kind of stuff, he's always there in the thick of it..

 

[Crystal Winters]

Why do we even need DEI in the first place? Whose voices are not being heard in the year of our lord 2024? "The back of the bus" died a long time ago.

 

[CGNoire]

Be a racist pos if you want, but that doesnt change the fact that she's black you muppet. Not being African, doesnt mean they can't be black lmao. Her skin color and hair style are all pretty clear. Maybe pun on a pair of glasses or stop being racist.

Idk she always looked highly tanned not black. I always asumed its cause shes from the desert.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Be a racist pos if you want, but that doesnt change the fact that she's black you muppet. Not being African, doesnt mean they can't be black lmao. Her skin color and hair style are all pretty clear. Maybe pun on a pair of glasses or stop being racist.

Going by that pic alone, why cant she be Indian? She looks a lot more Indian to me than Black.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

Hiring 10 black people from NY and 10 asian people from NY is not diversity.


Diversity comes from culture, if diversity without agenda was the goal, then we'd be talking about foreigners mostly, and not the same DEI jargon.

 

[Dazraell]

who said we weren't getting a Ciri game? this is what most fans want.

Everything points out their current vision for this new trilogy doesn't have Ciri as a lead but a witcher from a different school. I'm of course speculating here, but that's what the artwork CDPR used to announce this game seems to imply as Ciri's medallion (Cat) and a medallion on that artwork (Lynx) were different. If they would try to tease it'll be a game about Ciri, I feel they would used her medallion instead of creating a brand new one

 

[HRK69]

who said we weren't getting a Ciri game? this is what most fans want.

Who said we are getting a Ciri game?

 

[kyussman]

They are a large,modern gaming company....of course they engage in DEI.

 

[midnightAI]

People do realise that a company can have zero DEI initiatives and still make woke as fuck games? same as companies can have DEI initiatives and have zero wokeness in their games.

(And I will repeat, most major companies/corporations will have an inclusion page on their website, so to bring that up is pointless)

Basically.... Personally, I don't give a shit, I honestly couldn't give a rats ass about their internal politics or who they employ so long as they make good games

 

[Bergoglio]

eewwwww

At this point I would like to understand, for example, how a homosexual creative director can improve financial results compared to a straight creative director.
What are the added values that non-straight people guarantee to companies so that they increase their profits? Because if the answer is: "one's uniqueness", we have a problem; we are indirectly saying that homosexual people are intrinsically better than straight people. In nature, however, heterosexuality is the norm, not the exception.

"A diverse and inclusive work environment boosts creativity and innovation"

Boost means increase or improve.

I want to know exactly what are the parameters with which they objectively say they improve financial results. Otherwise we are just talking about nothing.

 

[GymWolf]

Everything points out their current vision for this new trilogy doesn't have Ciri as a lead but a witcher from a different school. I'm of course speculating here, but that's what the artwork CDPR used to announce this game seems to imply as Ciri's medallion (Cat) and a medallion on that artwork (Lynx) were different. If they would try to tease it'll be a game about Ciri, I feel they would used her medallion instead of creating a brand new one

Thank fucking god.

 

[LegendOfKage]

From what I've gathered, most colleges use personal essays to determine those who may benefit from being at the college. If their personal story is unique and compelling. That's ALONG with their grades and personal drive, per the essay. That gives some a leg up ... The biggest AA beneficiaries are white women, btw. Not black and brown folks. Contrary to popular belief.

But women are now the majority when it comes to college graduates, by a considerable amount. So how could that be right? And are you aware of concern from any colleges when it comes to this fact? Are any colleges actively turning down women in favor of men, or making it harder to qualify for women?

 

[Dazraell]

Thank fucking god.

I personally wouldn't mind Ciri, but I just don't feel her story would work as a material for a new trilogy. I guess a prequel game set between books and her appearance in Witcher 3 could be neat, but I feel setting this after the end of TW3 would pretty much diminish her endings as story would have to push her in one specific direction, including one that could pretty much divert from focusing on regular witcher work. Not to mention her skills are just too OP. Either way, any scenario doesn't really feel like a material for multiple games

And if my assumptions about this new trilogy are correct, having a new protagonist who is a proper witcher and comes from a school we never heard of opens the door for a lot of new cool stuff like for example more varied character builds (as Geralt's skillset was always built around his skills from books), larger freedom in shaping this character's personality (and maybe even appearance), building completely new relations that doesn't have any baggage from past games and could potentially carry over between multiple games, etc

 

[VulcanRaven]

Their track record is good, however preordering anything is out of the question.
I'll wait for all future games, not just CDPR games to release snd see if it's woke
I bought Alan Wake 2 without realising, still havnt played it but never again

So not because of the state Cyberpunk was on release? That doesn't matter at all? You just wait if its woke.

 

[GymWolf]

I personally wouldn't mind Ciri, but I just don't feel her story would work as a material for a new trilogy. I guess a prequel game set between books and her appearance in Witcher 3 could be neat, but I feel setting this after the end of TW3 would pretty much diminish her endings as story would have to push her in one specific direction, including one that could pretty much divert from focusing on regular witcher work. Not to mention her skills are just too OP. Either way, any scenario doesn't really feel like a material for multiple games

And if my assumptions about this new trilogy are correct, having a new protagonist who is a proper witcher and comes from a school we never heard of opens the door for a lot of new cool stuff like for example more varied character builds (as Geralt's skillset was always built around his skills from books), larger freedom in shaping this character's personality (and maybe even appearance), building completely new relations that doesn't have any baggage from past games and could potentially carry over between multiple games, etc

I could not care less for her.

Both expansion had a better plot just because i didn't waste half game searching for her.

I don't have a problem with female protagonist, but when i play the witcher, i kinda want a man as a protagonist.

 

[Dazraell]

I could not care less for her.

Both expansion had a better plot just because i didn't waste half game searching for her.

I don't have a problem with female protagonist, but when i play the witcher, i kinda want a man as a protagonist.

It's understandable. I mean, even lore states that witchers are male. Either way, if this would be Ciri, I feel they would just include her medallion in that teaser image. This is also my opinion, but I think after making V in Cyberpunk and seeing their reception they probably made a decision to create their own lead character instead of using ones from books. But I guess we will see when they'll "officially" announce this game

 

[Jakk]

Be a racist pos if you want, but that doesnt change the fact that she's black you muppet. Not being African, doesnt mean they can't be black lmao. Her skin color and hair style are all pretty clear. Maybe pun on a pair of glasses or stop being racist.

No way this isn't trolling, I refuse to believe someone can be this delusional

 

[BattleScar]

I was just giving quick example. Of course in real life people have to go 2-3 rounds of interviews, communication skills + technical skills + behavioural + situational/decision making skills. And candidates with the best combination of them all are chosen

But those are still considered merits


Race + gender + sexual preference, which are what DEI is all about, are not merits

The assumption you're making is that the people who are diverse are by definition "not qualified enough".
Which is a fucking stupid assumption.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

The assumption you're making is that the people who are diverse are by definition "not qualified enough".
Which is a fucking stupid assumption.

The assumption is that if you have a quota for anything other than merit, you with mathematically block out more qualified candidates without exception.

If the quota doesn't exist, and the most qualified candidates ended up all being mostly men, that should be fine. Just as most pharmacists are female in my country and no one is giving men any advantage in selection just for being male.

it is not definition, it is mathematics. If you are pushing men away and replacing them with women who wouldn't have been selected otherwise, by definition you ARE hiring less qualified people.

 

[The Cockatrice]

No way this isn't trolling, I refuse to believe someone can be this delusional

 

[lmimmfn]

So not because of the state Cyberpunk was on release? That doesn't matter at all? You just wait if its woke.

Cyberpunk on release for me on PC was ok, some issues with quests makers not triggerning and performance in some areas but generally was ok. Nothing to do with woke.

 

[Killer8]

He's getting scared of the backlash against DEI but still wants to pocket that BlackRock money.

 

[darrylgorn]

Pretty sure half of the staff has blue hair, so..

 

[xanaum]

Well, the rebuttal from the guy who stirred up the controversy seemed like a knockout to me.

 

[BattleScar]

The assumption is that if you have a quota for anything other than merit, you with mathematically block out more qualified candidates without exception.

If the quota doesn't exist, and the most qualified candidates ended up all being mostly men, that should be fine. Just as most pharmacists are female in my country and no one is giving men any advantage in selection just for being male.

it is not definition, it is mathematics. If you are pushing men away and replacing them with women who wouldn't have been selected otherwise, by definition you ARE hiring less qualified people.

Again, you're assuming there are quotas at all.

If you have two candidates who are absolutely identical but one is from a diverse group and the other isn't, what should you do?

Have you considered that unconcious bias might make you feel that a person from a particular background is more qualified than someone else, even if they aren't. Using your example of women pharmacists, how can you know for sure that those women wouldn't have been selected otherwise? Are you just assuming that because there are more women than there were previous that they're all lacking qualifications? Do you know what the demographics are for people studying pharmacy? If there are more women taking the subject and studying to become qualified pharmacists, then what?
Do you just see that there are more women than men, and assume that there must be quotas and the women hired are actually underqualified? What do you know and what are you simply assuming?

And this goes back to unconcious bias that some others here were talking about. A woman can say the exact same thing as a man with the exact same intonation as a man, and the man will be viewed as "assertive" while the woman might be viewed as "bitchy". Apply that to a black person instead and they might be viewed as being "aggressive". What's the difference?

People have a tendency to hire people that they can identify with or feel some kind of affiliation to, and have demonstrably overlooked more qualified people simply because of this affiliation they might feel. The ever nebulous "culture" element. Is that okay?

Why are we assuming that hiring practices are completely flawless if DEI initiatives are excluded? Do you think that before DEI was ever a thing that the most qualified person was always hired for the job? Nepotism, favouritism and all this other bullshit wasn't a thing? The whole thing about "its not what you know, but who you know?". Nobody's dad who played golf with some other company's CEO got their kid an internship when there are likely thousands of other kids out there with better qualifications? That didn't happen in the past?

Remember DEI isn't just about race, gender, sexual orientation or whatever. It also applies to demographics. You know people of all creeds who's parents aren't wealthy and influential enough to "put in a good word" for their kids at companies.

Everyone seems to have taken the most simplistic view possible here.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Everyone seems to have taken the most simplistic view possible here.

It is because the result is the only thing that matters.

The consumer wants a good product. And when your hiring practices put unqualified people into important positions, you create bad products. And the consumer notice and stop buying your products.

It doesn't matter how nuanced you want it to be, it still boils down to the final product being shit. Company make products to SELL. And if they don't sell they go broke.

If you want to run a charity then go head. But game studios are not charities. They have to make products their customers want. And if the people hired can't do the job, they need to be FIRED.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Say there's two white men who are both qualified for a job or school placement... But they pick the guy with a disability because he has a unique perspective that the non-disabled white man doesn't. Is THAT discrimination? Is THAT evil? Is THAT wrong?

Yes, yes and yes.

As a black man, I have different perspectives on certain things than you might...

EVERYONE has different perspectives. People within the same family have wildly differing perspectives. All you're doing is elevating certain "perspectives" based on your own subjective values, and devaluing others in the process.

You're already dividing people as if the white man is MORE deserving of the job, all things being equal, than the woman or POC.

I did no such thing. I never specified who should be hired. Just said no one should ever be rejected based on their skin tone or other immutable characteristics.

In fact, you're the one saying certain people are more deserving of a job. "Accuse others of that you are guilty" still trending I see.

Merit means nothing if all it means is keeping the business homogeneous.

This is your mind on DEI, I guess. Nothing else matters except destroying the status quo.

 

[BattleScar]

It is because the result is the only thing that matters.

The consumer wants a good product. And when your hiring practices put unqualified people into important positions, you create bad products. And the consumer notice and stop buying your products.

It doesn't matter how nuanced you want it to be, it still boils down to the final product being shit. Company make products to SELL. And if they don't sell they go broke.

If you want to run a charity then go head. But game studios are not charities. They have to make products their customers want. And if the people hired can't do the job, they need to be FIRED.

That's fine. I don't really care.

Yes, yes and yes.

Then what would you do? They're both equally qualified but there's only 1 vacancy that can be filled.

This is your mind on DEI, I guess. Nothing else matters except destroying the status quo.

Lmao ok bro.
I guess innovation, market disruption and the like are bad because they're "dEsTroYinG tHe StaTUs QuO". Cry me a river.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Then what would you do? They're both equally qualified but there's only 1 vacancy that can be filled.

Put their names in a hat and draw one at random.

Lmao ok bro.
I guess innovation, market disruption and the like are bad because they're "dEsTroYinG tHe StaTUs QuO". Cry me a river.

Never said I valued keeping the status quo. Just that destroying it being your ultimate goal is stupid. Perhaps you should read people's posts before you make a fool out of yourself.

 

[Bernardougf]

who said we weren't getting a Ciri game? this is what most fans want.

 

[Tams]

And what can DEI do to eliminate subconscious bias in hiring? Not a damn thing

If anything it introduces more bias or even straight up racism/discrimination, because you’re openly being told to look at race/gender/sexual preferences when considering a candidate

It also hides discrimination, as it just goes unsaid.

A fairly reasonable example is women in the 20-30 age range. If it even looks like they are going to want children, there's often an unspoken agreement amongst many hirers that they are much less likely to get the job. The reasons given are never that, but that is the real reason.

 

[peek]

They poached a bunch of talent from Insomniac which tells me all I need to know about where they’re headed

Well shit. We fucked if true.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Hiring 10 black people from NY and 10 asian people from NY is not diversity.


Diversity comes from culture, if diversity without agenda was the goal, then we'd be talking about foreigners mostly, and not the same DEI jargon.

Sounds reasonable, but good luck pushing that logic through. DEI is basically race ad gender based. Skin deep kind of stuff.

Here's an example.

There's two people in a lobby going after a US job. One is white female, one is a black guy. They grew up locally, go to the same school, they are even friends and live down the street from each other. They both speak the local language (English).

Another pair are both white guys. One guy is like the above (born and raised locally etc..). The other white guy just got off a plane from Norway, knows nothing about the local country, doesnt even speak English, and all he knows is McDonalds and Michel Jordan in the US.

I guarantee you DEI-supporters would say the first pair is more diverse.

You can tell DEI comparisons are skin deep because promoters will state stuff like gender, sex orientations, ethnic background statistics and ratios. Some are bold and will even publicly state ratio goals like the comany is aiming for 40% female execs by year 202X. They will never bring up actual differences in culture or experiences. It's ASSUMED based on looking at someone.

No different than rating a book by its cover.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Again, you're assuming there are quotas at all.

If you have two candidates who are absolutely identical but one is from a diverse group and the other isn't, what should you do?
at there must be quotas and the women hired are actually underqualified? What do you know and what are you simply assuming?

And this goes back to unconcious bias that some others here were talking about. A woman can say the exact same thing

1 - There are quotas enforced by law in most industries. Not acknowledging this kills any rational discussion. This is factual and can't be argued.

2 - "unconscious bias" is also in the minds of diverse hirers, but in that case, you seem not to care. Anyway, it's something inherent to the human condition so pretending to correct that is just dumb.

3 - "what if two identical candidates..." This is what tells me that you have little corporate experience. Even if the candidates have the same experience and skills, they are never identical. There are many past experiences or personal traits that may fit better in a particular team. Race will never be one of them. However, gender is relevant because men and women don't think or work the same way, regardless of having the same theoretical competence.

I have interviewed and selected hundreds of people and never in my life had to choose between 2 equal candidates. There aren't two people with exactly the same skills and personal traits.