NEOPARADIGM
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I'm not sure that's presently the case. They've been pretty strong for quite a while now.
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CFB Week 12: the Valley Shook, the Plains Ran Dry, and Sparty Clempsoned
- Thread starter mre
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I'm not sure that's presently the case. They've been pretty strong for quite a while now.
perfectchaos007
Member
Yeah they're no longer in the Mountain West like Boise St.
Ole Miss deserved more credit for beating them handily in week 1.
At the time there schedules were scheduled, TCU was still in the Mountain West, Baylor while not as hot as they are now was still in the B12.
Or, you know, just don't lose to LSU at home and lobby to play them again because "reasons."
I agree that Bama was the best team that year but do you realize how rare a real shot at the MNC is for my team? Let some other team get a shot for once! 
I'm not disregarding it, I'm giving the Baylor-TCU game the weight it deserves. At this point, a narrow loss in Waco in which you put up 58 points is as close as you can get to a "good" loss. I'm not an absolutist when it comes to wins and losses, as though losing that game somehow disqualifies TCU.
Like I said, it's apparent that both TCU and Baylor are really good, and their on the field contest indicates that they're very evenly-matched. It's also obvious that TCU would be a narrow favorite if the game were held in Fort Worth.
Baylor may in fact be better overall, but the evidence doesn't indicate to me that they clearly deserve a shot above TCU.
My preference for TCU in this situation isn't sour grapes against Baylor (although I do hate Baylor), it's simply a preference for a non-cupcake filled OOC schedule.
The reason for that preference is two-fold. First of all, as a fan of college football I prefer to see good games between good teams. Punishing weak OOC scheduling will help with this.
Secondly, if more teams play stronger OOC schedules, we'll have a better idea of which teams are actually deserving of a spot in the playoff. Baylor putting up 70 points on East Bumfuck State tells us absolutely nothing about how good they are.
I'd love for it to happen, even more than an 8 team playoff, but I won't underestimate the bowls' greed. Maybe first round at home, then the rest at bowl sites.
Of your two reasons, #1 is essentially sour grapes (because you just "prefer" to see good games) and #2 is an argument for comparison of OOC schedules across different conferences, not within a single conference. You don't need Baylor's OOC schedule to determine who is more "actually deserving" between them and TCU because they play each other and literally share 10 of their 12 opponents.
Buffalo being their strongest OOC opponent should be a reason you keep Baylor out of the playoff in favor of Arizona State (beat Notre Dame) or Oregon (beat Michigan State) or Alabama (beat West Virginia), not a team in their own conference who they actually beat on the field.
http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/frequently-asked-questions
I mean the rankings agree with the metrics they are using. If the game was played on a neutral field or at TCU, I'd have much more sympathy to your cause ... but it wasn't.
I was thinking about this more.
A one loss FSU doesn't deserve in over a 1 loss Pac/Sec team. It deserves it over a 1 loss B12/B1G team. I don't think they're done after all.
Enjoying competitive, well-played football is "sour grapes"? What?
I'm arguing for Baylor being penalized for playing such a shitty schedule, not necessarily TCU being rewarded for scheduling Minnesota (traditionally a pretty weak opponent). TCU at least played and beat somebody with a pulse.
If Baylor had simply played a major conference opponent (I don't care if it's Wake Forest, Colorado, or Syracuse) then I would probably put them in over TCU at this point.
I simply don't think a 3-point loss in Waco in which TCU scored nearly 60 points should automatically put Baylor ahead of TCU.
If I were on the committee, I would want to send a message that playing a terrible OOC schedule will count against you when the teams are hard to distinguish.
Baylor's OOC schedule was offensive before the season and it only looks worse now.
Randolph Freelander
Member
They're undefeated and third, they're clearly not getting much benefit of the doubt now and would get none at all with a loss. And to be honest, I couldn't argue for it.
I also find it difficult to say a team deserves anything when they've lost a game. I don't care who it is or how many slots are open, if you've lost and you get invited to the playoff anyway, you've been given a gift that you haven't earned. Enjoy and make the most of it. For those not invited, don't cry about it, because you had one job (win every game) and you didn't do it. If Florida State loses, they deserve nothing.
Nope, sorry. We're greedy. All for us.Or, you know, just don't lose to LSU at home and lobby to play them again because "reasons."
I agree that Bama was the best team that year but do you realize how rare a real shot at the MNC is for my team? Let some other team get a shot for once!
GoldenEye 007
Member
LeBatard was probably trollin.
sf2fanatic
Member
Miami getting E James back? I'm still recovery from that Beatdown he gave us.
theprodigy
Member
(THU) ECU @ Cincinnati by 10
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 17
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 14
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 4
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 4 (no idea)
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 4
Washington @ Arizona by 14
Utah @ Stanford by 10
Auburn @ Georgia by 7 #yolo
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 7
Florida State @ Miami by 14
LSU @ Arkansas by 10
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 17
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 14
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 4
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 4 (no idea)
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 4
Washington @ Arizona by 14
Utah @ Stanford by 10
Auburn @ Georgia by 7 #yolo
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 7
Florida State @ Miami by 14
LSU @ Arkansas by 10
Randolph Freelander
Member
Wasn't him, it was one of those SportsCenter type breaks, though it was just before the show switched over to national so it was probably one of their local guys.
no.
the hearing is delayed to december 1st, which if i heard right is the last day of classes at FSU before finals.
the verdict can't be reached until class resumes from fall break, jan 13 at the earliest.
regardless of the fact that jeameis will be cleared, it's pretty evident that the only 'bias' out there is the one squarely aimed at FSU, and in particular jameis. how a defending national champion that hasn't lost in nearly two years not only manages to lose its top spot, but another and fall to 3rd despite being undefeated, is laughable.
fsu will finish #1 and be first 15-0 team in CFB history. the committee can ponder on that.
GodfatherX
Member
(THU) ECU @ Cincinnati by 11
I like some of the things you say, but this is one of the most disagreeable statements I've ever read.
Beating a 2-7 (0-5) Wake Forest team would magically place Baylor over TCU for you? Even worse, just because they are from a power conference (when there's plenty of better non-power conference teams out there)?
Affeinvasion
Member
Saw some guy post this in the Tosh.0 thread about ESPN. Thought you guys would find it funny.
What a dick bag. :jnc
If we make him hate himself, I'm not sure how he deals with confrontation in his every day life.
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
(THU) ECU @ Cincinnati by 10
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 5
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 18
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 7
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 14
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 10
Washington @ Arizona by 8
Utah @ Stanford by 10
Auburn @ Georgia by 15
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 16
Florida State @ Miami by 6
LSU @ Arkansas by 20
lolwut
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 5
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 18
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 7
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 14
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 10
Washington @ Arizona by 8
Utah @ Stanford by 10
Auburn @ Georgia by 15
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 16
Florida State @ Miami by 6
LSU @ Arkansas by 20
lolwut
timetokill
Banned
We need to title next week's thread: "Making Pelydr hate himself, one post at a time"
@FelixOrion: you forgot to pick a winner in the texas - okie state game
GAF Pick'em Week 12 Games
(THU) ECU @ Cincinnati by 10
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 4
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 4
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 4
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 4
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 4
Washington @ Arizona by 10
Utah @ Stanford by 6
Auburn @ Georgia by 10
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 6
Florida State @ Miami by 14
LSU @ Arkansas by 6
GAF Pick'em Week 12 Games
(THU) ECU @ Cincinnati by 10
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 4
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 4
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 4
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 4
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 4
Washington @ Arizona by 10
Utah @ Stanford by 6
Auburn @ Georgia by 10
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 6
Florida State @ Miami by 14
LSU @ Arkansas by 6
ulua
Member
if someone thinks this thread is bad/makes them hate themselves/etc., than they obviously have never read the comment section of ESPN articles/most college football websites. from what conversation i've been a part of here so far, everyone seems to keep it civil (although it seems like everyone bands together for a common "hatred" of georgia tech which i find hilarious)
jack_nicholson_nodding.gif
Must be a GT fan.
Oh man. So good.
PICK EMS
Damn. Tricky slate of games. Could see about 8 of these going the other way.
ECU @ Cincinnati by 10
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 7
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 11
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 5
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 6
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 10
Washington @ Arizona by 9
Utah @ Stanford by 7
Auburn @ Georgia by 12
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 7
Florida State @ Miami by 25
LSU @ Arkansas by 8
Damn. Tricky slate of games. Could see about 8 of these going the other way.
ECU @ Cincinnati by 10
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 7
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 11
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 5
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 6
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 10
Washington @ Arizona by 9
Utah @ Stanford by 7
Auburn @ Georgia by 12
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 7
Florida State @ Miami by 25
LSU @ Arkansas by 8
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Cincinnati by 6
Clemson by 9
Duke by 8
North Carolina by 4
Alabama by 6
Nebraska 5
Arizona by 6
Utah 7
Georgia by 5
Texas by 9
Miami by 4
Arkansas by 7
Clemson by 9
Duke by 8
North Carolina by 4
Alabama by 6
Nebraska 5
Arizona by 6
Utah 7
Georgia by 5
Texas by 9
Miami by 4
Arkansas by 7
Well of course I do. I think everybody else just eggs on yellowjacket because of the reactions they get.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
We are just looking out for our knees.
Azwethinkweiz
Member
It's fine since they deserve it.
How convenient. What a fucking joke of an institution.
I really don't understand how people are selecting Miami over FSU. I mean, who has Miami beaten this year? Probably their best win is against Duke. But they lost to Louisville handily and were throttled by Georgia's worst football team, Tech. Not to mention losing to Nebraska. Meanwhile, they've notched some impressive wins against Arkansas St, Florida A&M, and Cincinnati. This team, like all other teams based in Miami, is laughably overrated and while FSU has not wowed this year, they have risen to the occasion. This game is not going to be close and will serve as a warmup game for FSU's demolition of the Gators two weeks from now.
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
Whoops! Thanks for catching that!
you fiendish devil. the thread wills it.
Schmitty
Member
(THU) ECU @ Cincinnati by 6
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 10
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 8
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 4
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 4
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 4
Washington @ Arizona by 10
Utah @ Stanford by 4 early celebrations
Auburn @ Georgia by 4
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 4
Florida State @ Miami by 14
LSU @ Arkansas by 6
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 10
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 8
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 4
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 4
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 4
Washington @ Arizona by 10
Utah @ Stanford by 4 early celebrations
Auburn @ Georgia by 4
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 4
Florida State @ Miami by 14
LSU @ Arkansas by 6
devildog820
Member
(THU) ECU @ Cincinnati by 10
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 2
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 10
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 5
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 6
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 10
Washington @ Arizona by 14
Utah @ Stanford by 7
Auburn @ Georgia by 10
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 14
Florida State @ Miami by 8
LSU @ Arkansas by 18
Clemson @ Georgia Tech by 2
Virginia Tech @ Duke by 10
Pittsburgh @ North Carolina by 5
Mississippi State @ Alabama by 6
Nebraska @ Wisconsin by 10
Washington @ Arizona by 14
Utah @ Stanford by 7
Auburn @ Georgia by 10
Texas @ Oklahoma State by 14
Florida State @ Miami by 8
LSU @ Arkansas by 18
INCOMING WALL OF TEXT
I PROMISE I'M NOT PRISTINE
I say it's "sour grapes" because personal opinions of what is enjoyable doesn't actually mean that something is better or worse. If team A is undefeated and won all of their games 77-70, and team B is undefeated and won all of their games 3-0, the decision on which one gets in shouldn't be about whether you "prefer" watching a high scoring team or a low scoring team, it should be about actual factors that mean something in a game, like, I don't know, an actual win on the field for one over the other.
You're also essentially arguing for Baylor to be penalized for what amounts to a coin flip determining that the game against TCU was in Waco this year.
You don't think that Baylor winning a head to head game should automatically put them ahead, but you do believe that TCU should automatically be put ahead for a week 3 win over a team that Baylor would be favored against by two touchdowns?
Those criteria you quote doesn't explicitly mention head to head results of a game between two teams, either, which leads me to believe that that line was written with a general nod to comparing teams in different conferences, not the same conference, just like I said in the sentence you quoted. They'd be crazy not to include a head to head matchup in their process, no matter whether you lean towards my or Gondo's thoughts on this specific game. It does include "championships won" as part of the criteria, and going by the actual rules of a round robin tournament, if both teams win out then Baylor would have a trophy and TCU wouldn't (though as mentioned before, the Big XII is apparently going to wimp out and declare co-champions).
At any rate, by the end of the season, the strength of schedule comparison between the two teams is going to be incredibly close. I'd be surprised if they were separated by more than 10 spots. Minnesota over Buffalo doesn't really mean all that much when you have a head to head game, 10 common opponents, and an 11th that is essentially equivalent.
Again, I can even understand TCU being ahead of Baylor right now because of the rankings of who they've played thus far (Minnesota ranked, Baylor hasn't played KSU yet), but at the end of the year if both teams are undefeated but TCU gets in and Baylor doesn't then I think Baylor will have gotten screwed. I look at TCU being ahead right now in kind of the same light as I looked at 3 SEC teams being in that initial top 4; Most didn't really believe that 3 SEC teams would finish the season in the top 4, but it was a reasonable choice at the time based on what we had to work with at the time.
I'm done arguing this for now since it's pretty much just going in circles.
I PROMISE I'M NOT PRISTINE
I say it's "sour grapes" because personal opinions of what is enjoyable doesn't actually mean that something is better or worse. If team A is undefeated and won all of their games 77-70, and team B is undefeated and won all of their games 3-0, the decision on which one gets in shouldn't be about whether you "prefer" watching a high scoring team or a low scoring team, it should be about actual factors that mean something in a game, like, I don't know, an actual win on the field for one over the other.
You're also essentially arguing for Baylor to be penalized for what amounts to a coin flip determining that the game against TCU was in Waco this year.
You don't think that Baylor winning a head to head game should automatically put them ahead, but you do believe that TCU should automatically be put ahead for a week 3 win over a team that Baylor would be favored against by two touchdowns?
Those criteria you quote doesn't explicitly mention head to head results of a game between two teams, either, which leads me to believe that that line was written with a general nod to comparing teams in different conferences, not the same conference, just like I said in the sentence you quoted. They'd be crazy not to include a head to head matchup in their process, no matter whether you lean towards my or Gondo's thoughts on this specific game. It does include "championships won" as part of the criteria, and going by the actual rules of a round robin tournament, if both teams win out then Baylor would have a trophy and TCU wouldn't (though as mentioned before, the Big XII is apparently going to wimp out and declare co-champions).
At any rate, by the end of the season, the strength of schedule comparison between the two teams is going to be incredibly close. I'd be surprised if they were separated by more than 10 spots. Minnesota over Buffalo doesn't really mean all that much when you have a head to head game, 10 common opponents, and an 11th that is essentially equivalent.
Again, I can even understand TCU being ahead of Baylor right now because of the rankings of who they've played thus far (Minnesota ranked, Baylor hasn't played KSU yet), but at the end of the year if both teams are undefeated but TCU gets in and Baylor doesn't then I think Baylor will have gotten screwed. I look at TCU being ahead right now in kind of the same light as I looked at 3 SEC teams being in that initial top 4; Most didn't really believe that 3 SEC teams would finish the season in the top 4, but it was a reasonable choice at the time based on what we had to work with at the time.
I'm done arguing this for now since it's pretty much just going in circles.
Oh you mean from those totally legal cut blocks. They never get called for chop blocks.
Easily, I'd bet the over if I was a betting man. I could see a 38-35 score this weekend. 'm going to say Auburn wins because I'm pessimistic.
I always forget about that. Must be a holdover from before GA Tech took their ball and left the SEC.
ulua
Member
it pains me when they show people on TV at our games trying to sing the fight song (or when im at a game), and the only words they know are "yea alabama" and "fight on fight on men"
but of course everyone knows the lyrics to the "rammer jammer" =/
All I want is for these teams to schedule somebody with a chance of potentially maybe putting up a fight. Wake Forest has been OK in the past, and I'm willing to give a team the benefit of the doubt since most of these matchups are scheduled years in advance. It isn't OU's fault that Tennessee is bad this year, and it isn't Florida State's fault that we're having a down year. When the game was scheduled I thought we had a great chance of beating FSU.
Minnesota looked like a pretty soft game for TCU before the season but they turned out to be decent.
Baylor intentionally went out and scheduled the easiest games possible to pad their resume with three extra wins. Fuck them.
We're talking about two different things. My point is that I want to minimize the number of laughable games. That includes us playing Missouri State, Baylor playing Northwestern State, Ole Miss playing Presbyterian, etc. These games have a .0001% chance of being competitive. It's awful for fan interest and it sucks for the players (except the third-stringers from the better team who might get some playing time).
Pay-for-play games against inferior competition should be banned, period.
Wins do mean something, but I prefer to look at things like the NFL does. Sure, it means something when Seattle barely beat Denver at home earlier this season, but that doesn't mean I can't look at other evidence and determine that Denver is probably better.
This is reasonable. We just happen to disagree. Besides, odds are actually somewhat decent that TCU or Baylor will lose one of their remaining games and make this whole argument moot.
The only way to really settle it would be an 8-team playoff. 4 just isn't enough.
I prefer four; two loss teams shouldn't make the playoffs. This would have been solved if the b12 had a champ game.
Yeah, let's solve it this way, any power 5 conference must have a conference championship game to have teams included in the playoff, and any team not part of a conference is not eligible for the playoff. And if we want to get really fun, any team that schedules a non power 5 team during the regular season will be ineligible for the playoffs.
I choose to decide that I wasn't lying about dropping it before because this is a CLARIFICATION, not a further argument.
I think we're talking about the same things, I was just using the scoring stuff as a different example of what I see as the same general idea of letting personal preference creep in over more objective points; for example, I think a 77-70 game IS laughable. I wouldn't penalize a team or auto-drop them for playing a bunch of 77-70 games, though, provided they won them all.
Buffalo being laughable or not, I think there are enough other points of comparison between TCU and BU that we don't need to use one game in each's OOC schedule that both teams won as a deciding factor. TCU winning the rest of their games by 20 points and BU winning the rest of their games by 1 point would be a much bigger factor for me, for instance. When you have a head to head matchup and 10 common opponent's worth of comparative data a single OOC game means practically nothing IMO. WAY down the list of tie-breakers.
This all just really feels like the whole BCS mess all over again. I've generally been a defender of FSU up to this point but I'm starting to lean towards hoping that an undefeated Florida State doesn't make it in just so we can have a huge meltdown and get to 8 that much sooner.
I also really wish they would just make winning your conference part of the criteria. There would still be some controversy, I'm sure, but at least that is a hardline explicit criteria that isn't so nebulous as stuff like personal opinions on OOC or things like that.
I think we're talking about the same things, I was just using the scoring stuff as a different example of what I see as the same general idea of letting personal preference creep in over more objective points; for example, I think a 77-70 game IS laughable. I wouldn't penalize a team or auto-drop them for playing a bunch of 77-70 games, though, provided they won them all.
Buffalo being laughable or not, I think there are enough other points of comparison between TCU and BU that we don't need to use one game in each's OOC schedule that both teams won as a deciding factor. TCU winning the rest of their games by 20 points and BU winning the rest of their games by 1 point would be a much bigger factor for me, for instance. When you have a head to head matchup and 10 common opponent's worth of comparative data a single OOC game means practically nothing IMO. WAY down the list of tie-breakers.
This all just really feels like the whole BCS mess all over again. I've generally been a defender of FSU up to this point but I'm starting to lean towards hoping that an undefeated Florida State doesn't make it in just so we can have a huge meltdown and get to 8 that much sooner.
I also really wish they would just make winning your conference part of the criteria. There would still be some controversy, I'm sure, but at least that is a hardline explicit criteria that isn't so nebulous as stuff like personal opinions on OOC or things like that.
I hate hard and fast rules like this. For example, the Russell Wilson Wisconsin team from 3 years ago was undoubtedly one of the best teams in the country and lost two regular season games on fluky hail-mary type passes.
That team would have been deserving of a spot in an 8-team playoff.
Regardless, it's silly that assuming they win out that one of TCU or Baylor will get left out. Both are extremely deserving and either will justifiably feel slighted if they're left at #5.
That's fair too. Have an 8-team playoff with auto-bids for conference champs of the Pac-12, Big 12, B1G, SEC and ACC. The remaining three spots are at-large with disqualification for playing a non-FBS team. In an ideal world there would be a disqualification for playing a non-Power 5 team, but I'm trying to be realistic.
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