Lord of Castamere
Member
Good. I thought I was going crazy for a second. I swear some of the replies are almost the exact same as in the other thread too. I was struggling to find it, but I failed.
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Chicago: Can't graduate High School unless you have a Job or are going to College
- Thread starter bigkrev
- Start date
Good. I thought I was going crazy for a second. I swear some of the replies are almost the exact same as in the other thread too. I was struggling to find it, but I failed.
cryptosporidium
Member
the idea behind this sounds good to me, but i guess its no gud cuz murica?
Wtf does this even mean
If I were to make a prediction, I think this will go better than people think. Pushing people into responsibility can be very helpful. Getting a simple job is not a monumental task, the drop outs will have to do it anyway, but I think getting people to plot that trajectory will produce better long term results. The things is a high school diploma doesn't get you anything, your job qualifications are marginally better than that of someone without one. It seems like they also want this to increase accountability for faculty pushing students past high school rather than just to the diploma itself. It's an interesting experiment, I hope it works.
I agree with you, but only for good schools. CPS has a ton of absolute garbage schools that lack funding and are constantly hemorrhaging teachers and this policy will only hurt students at those underperforming schools even more. Schools in the poor minority neighborhoods will not have the funds to properly roll this out and give students the opportunities that they deserve. Given Illinois' budget crisis many state universities, particularly those that most cater to under-served groups, such as Chicago State/ Northeastern Illinois are on the verge of closing with severe layoffs. It is foolish to believe that this situation will significantly improve and serve more students, even by 2020.
I agree that this should be a policy in many school districts and is a great path forward that can help students make the most of their education, but given the state of CPS and the state of Illinois right now, it's a disastrous decision that will cause thousands of already vulnerable students to be denied the most basic, but essential mark of value in the working world.
Explain why there needs to be a forced requirement? Why can't supports be offered without an *? And the article mentions:
"If students are already automatically admitted to the City College system, then creating this rule seems to be not only redundant but also aimed at targeting a specific portion of the population."
What if someone with an ASD(Autism diagnosis) can't work and doesn't have a disability waiver because it's not a diagnosis covered by medicare and medicaid in most states. A hiccup in a case like that is unacceptable. And more cases like this are going to target the most marginalized. And saying to a teen for whatever why they may not want a job or to go to school, you can't have your diploma is unacceptable.
Offer the supports without this. And like the above person mentioned, many school districts can't afford this. Where the money and the staff going to come from?
Nydius
Gold Member
I guess I'm just sitting here surprised this isn't already the case since my school system had this back in the early 1990s. Before any of us could graduate, we had to submit proof that we either:
- Had a conditional offer of employment;
- Had been accepted to a 2- or 4- year college/university; or
- Had gone through early enlistment for the U.S. Armed Forces.
We had a big bulletin board at the front of the school with "SENIORS: [YEAR]" and as people submitted their information their name and information. So, for example, someone who decided to go through early enlistment would have: "NAME, UNITED STATES AIR FORCE" or whatever put up on the board for the entire school to see.
Seniors who didn't submit their paperwork weren't allowed to march with the class or get their diploma until they did.
- Had a conditional offer of employment;
- Had been accepted to a 2- or 4- year college/university; or
- Had gone through early enlistment for the U.S. Armed Forces.
We had a big bulletin board at the front of the school with "SENIORS: [YEAR]" and as people submitted their information their name and information. So, for example, someone who decided to go through early enlistment would have: "NAME, UNITED STATES AIR FORCE" or whatever put up on the board for the entire school to see.
Seniors who didn't submit their paperwork weren't allowed to march with the class or get their diploma until they did.
My school did something similar where I had to job shadow someone. Made me realize I didn't want to do chemistry.
Hellwarden
Member
Wow this is legal?
I mean, I know students in the US have limited rights in contrast to the average citizen, but this seems like a stretch of what the state can ask of the average student.
I mean, I know students in the US have limited rights in contrast to the average citizen, but this seems like a stretch of what the state can ask of the average student.
Earthbound64
Banned
Hey, I tried. I even quoted one of your posts from the other thread in here.
Jon Carter
Member
Does it? I paid thousands of dollars because I was an international student, but for California residents, my community college was $25 per unit and full time is 12 units. That's four classes. Books can be expensive, but they don't cost thousands of dollars.
This is fine, if it was in a vacuum, but the Chicago's school system is toxic cesspool with problems from top to bottom
What do they need a diploma for if they have no plan? Just in case? A diploma isn't the end. It's the beginning.
cryptosporidium
Member
that murica will take something that could be good and do it horribly wrong?
opticalmace
Member
Seems like there are a lot of ways this could screw over some people.
kaname-san
Member
Why do people keep voting for this guy?
Vicetrailia
Banned
I heard this was a requirement for charter schools. Devos?
Though it just shifts the problem of a bunch of people enrolling and then dropping out of the Community College (people who might want to go HS->work but don't have a job right off the bat).
I wonder if a part-time job qualifies as well? If this became a real issue, non-profits could just start up and guarantee every high school graduate a job for the summer just to make sure they get their diploma.
Ideally, this program should require little or even no additional funds as it's a readjusting of priorities for both the senior students and staff. Meaning time and resources that would previously be spent on other things will instead be devoted to this year long program helping seniors prepare. Whether that holds true requires students, school systems, and parents to go all in on this. Which is where it could face issues. Everyone has to be willing to give it a fair shake and adjust how they see a senior year of school should proceed for it to work.
There are no doubt serious issues and complications that could arise when it comes to money, since the state seems to be run by incompetent corrupt fucknuts, but in my mind it's worth trying. It's worth making an effort to try and fix a failing system.
In regards to making all these things a requirement, I personally believe it is actually more focused on school systems as it will hold them accountable. It means school systems can't just "get em to the door", they have to help plan for after as well.
I remember reading a story about a few schools that added washing machines and attendance to that school bumped up significantly. Clean clothes are fundamental to education.
When I'm looking through this proposal, it doesn't address necessities. And kids shouldn't be forced to join the military to get things like that covered. Are kids automatically going to get food stamps? What about documentations like a social security card and birth certificate? Healthcare? Will that get addressed? Do people understand the home life these kids have? What about addressing the school to prison pipeline that unfairly targets Black and other minorities? Does this address suspensions for minor behavior problems? What about mental illness in the Black community, will the school system pay for mental health diagnosis?
I could just list things all night. This would be great as an option, not as a forced requirement that more than likely is going to be met with lawsuits. If you go to school K-12 and pass your classes you earned your diploma. Period.
When I'm looking through this proposal, it doesn't address necessities. And kids shouldn't be forced to join the military to get things like that covered. Are kids automatically going to get food stamps? What about documentations like a social security card and birth certificate? Healthcare? Will that get addressed? Do people understand the home life these kids have? What about addressing the school to prison pipeline that unfairly targets Black and other minorities? Does this address suspensions for minor behavior problems? What about mental illness in the Black community, will the school system pay for mental health diagnosis?
I could just list things all night. This would be great as an option, not as a forced requirement that more than likely is going to be met with lawsuits. If you go to school K-12 and pass your classes you earned your diploma. Period.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Folks, this ain't a bug. This shit is working exactly as intended.
Destroying the Black family and gutting the Black community has been an objective of government in this nation for as long as it's existed.
Doubly so since the Civil rights movement in the 60's.
Your democrat "allies", folks.
Destroying the Black family and gutting the Black community has been an objective of government in this nation for as long as it's existed.
Doubly so since the Civil rights movement in the 60's.
Your democrat "allies", folks.
And the OP is also referring to any job including minimum wage right?
Mammoth Jones
Member
I can believe it. Democrat leadership only give lip service to Black issues. When it comes to tangible systemic changes they don't give a shit. They'll throw a few crumbs or provide trickle down social justice.
The intentions seem good, ending a childs education so abruptly and doing nothing to set them up for their future is a terrible part of the education system. However this doesn't seem to be the way to go about it, unless community College became free / heavily subsidized or acceptance letters are free to get (are they?)
you have an odd amount of faith placed in chicago public schools.
then again, I'm not from chicago
School: "You can't get a job, so we can't let you graduate."
Student: "Ok." *Drops out.*
Seriously, WTF did they think this was going to solve? You want to improve shit like that invest in training programs for high school kids, don't force them to find a job, so if they don't they're fucked...
Student: "Ok." *Drops out.*
Seriously, WTF did they think this was going to solve? You want to improve shit like that invest in training programs for high school kids, don't force them to find a job, so if they don't they're fucked...
I'm amazed this is normal for you. I guess if you grow up like that, it is. Look, I'm not American but this creeps me out on a major level. You guys are completely institutionalised at this point.
My faith isn't in the system in regards to the politicians and the district admin. But I do have faith in the teachers that will share the responsibility of getting this achieved. I say that as a teacher myself though. A program that would ensure my students, with my help, know exactly what comes next would be something I'd pursue passionately.
I agree it's worth trying, but there isn't a clear way of how this could be achieved when CPS is continually laying off teachers and the guidance counselors who would presumably lead this program are already overworked and struggling to effectively do their jobs and help their students. The plan is a pie in the sky fantasy as long as CPS continues to cut staff, the Teachers Union continues to respond with district wide strikes, and the state government continues to cut/not budget education funding.
This subject gets me heated because while I don't live in Chicago, my state's public schooling was awful, especially for kids like me who were Black. If something like this succeeds and more cities and even states adopt a policy like this, Black kids are going to suffer.
You cannot talk about education and not address structural issues. They have to be tackled simultaneously. And a college education is not even necessarily an equalizer if your application gets thrown in the trash because your name is too urban.
I don't have any patience that puts undo pressure on my community while they can offer this without forced requirements. What about racism in the classroom, how does something like this proposed deal with racist teachers and professors? Where can a Black kid go if racism is affecting their ability to focus in the classrooms from other kids and even authority figures?
EDIT:
Also, Rahm has been at odds with teacher unions and parent initiatives. He doesn't support them. This type of requirement is likely to cause another strike. People really should know who Rahm is.
Corporatist friendly policies from a corporate friendly Democrat, that's all.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
Oh nice, great way to try and herd poor people into the military. Clearly this will solve all the problems. What a piece of shit.
Nydius
Gold Member
I don't disagree. I call it the Education-Industrial Complex. Looking back on it as a student it didn't seem like such a big deal. Looking at it now as an adult and a parent, it's absolutely ridiculous. The program is run almost entirely by the school administrators or guidance counselors rather than the teachers and it's clear the entire purpose is to push kids into college, with the military as the preferred second option. From both my experience as a student and having observed the process with my son, jobs and vocational training are rarely mentioned but they will go on and on and on about the various paths for college and university education.
I'd argue my son had it worse because he was required to take the U.S. Military's ASVAB aptitude testing in his junior year. Afterward he had recruiters constantly bugging him for a year and a half. At least the ASVAB was optional for me.
Vermillion
Banned
Basically. I understand the motive, buuuutttt
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Because the true purpose is to make things harder for a specific group of people.
makingmusic476
Member
How does this dude keep getting elected?
This reads like conservative propaganda. Why would Rahm make it harder for the children of a population segment which votes for him? To keep them dependent on the state to the point where they will keep supporting big government policies(Sounds like Rush Limbaugh).
The Maverick
Member
I live in Illinois, Chicago Public Schools are not a good place to test this "theory". Underfunded school, stressed teachers, at-home difficulties, lack of transportation for students, etc. This is just another pipeline for minority students, except now it's to get used by the military or for-profit education system. Or get in the minimum wage job trap. Or get culled from graduating.
Rahm remains a clueless bozo that has no idea what the people need in terms of help.
Rahm remains a clueless bozo that has no idea what the people need in terms of help.
You're trying to be funny, but that's not too far off. If this was being implemented with good intentions, it wouldn't be tied to graduating. He would be working together with parents and teacher initiatives. He's not. This will only force more students out of schools.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Yup. You have no federal right to an education in the US. The entire point of basic education was to create a capable workforce. But many corporations and rich folk really hate their tax dollars going to fund it even on the state level. This is why you have Betsy Devos pushing charter schools. You pay for your own shit.
Sorry but if what someone does after high school isnt justification to withhold their diploma. Don't want folks without jobs? Then maybe stop locking their dad's up on bullshit drug charges.
Iredell of racist motherfuckers doing everything sleepy underhanded tactic to prevent black people from getting theirs. This reminds me of literacy tests for voting. People swore that wasn't racist back then too....
This isn't done well.
Same reasons democrats have been indifferent to issues facing black people in America. Someone else's money matters more...
Hate when politicians piss in our face and folks swear up and down its rain.
Or it will force kids, and parents, to begin thinking about the future before getting a degree and being thrown out into the real world without a plan.
People are mad, but Trump is already saying he wants to send Feds into Chicago. Rahm has to try something to make sure we don't get to that point.
Mammoth Jones
Member
"It's for your own good black folk we know what's best for you..."
This is why I can't fuck with the Democrats. This is why I hold my nose in the voting booth. And before you go in no Republicans aren't better but "the other side is so much worse" isn't much consolation when people really trying to defend this racist bullshit.
What a person does after they graduate should have no impact on their graduation. Offer them job placement if you want to help. Offer financial planning services. Teach fiscal management. Teach entrepreneurship.
But don't refuse someone to graduate when they have the grades because you don't like their post graduation plan. It's honestly not the schools business the day after graduation.
There are 1000 better ways to help.