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[Mammoth Jones]

I hate to argue on the side of this because I don't really trust an already struggling school system to implement this in a perfect fashion...

but you are being very reductionist. The plan isn't just to drop the surprise requirement on them the day before graduation like "YEAH RIGHT SUCKER YOU GOT A JOB READY!?" and the article goes into at least some details on how exactly they plan to support, engage, and assist them on planning for their future. It even includes an example of a school that has successfully implemented a similar program.

I really don't think the doom and gloom scenarios being spelled out here will come to pass. Principals want their schools to have higher graduation rates and could easily lose their position if those numbers decline in a big way. I don't see impoverished students being outright denied their diplomas over a technicality like this.

I do, however, see some more corrupt and morally bankrupt schools (which I am sure there are a number of!) clearing the requirement by all but forcing impoverished students into the armed services as the default choice.

You say this like no doom and gloom scenarios have come to pass for certain folks in America already. That's my point it don't help to compound that.

 

[Frozenprince]

You can have there be senior year be facilitation of the future and planning out your next, let's say five years post graduation.

You can magically, and mysteriously, do this without denying kids who don't meet your criteria a diploma.

There shouldn't be anybody defending the fact that these are kids potentially being denied something they are due and earned simply because they may not meet a requirement of the state to be more efficient citizens and to pass the buck of responsibility off on a bunch of kids who don't know better and over worked and stretched to the breaking point school systems.

It's not "the need to be outraged" or whatever nonsense the usual suspects have to rattle off despite posting here constantly. There's no justifiable reason to deny kids the ability to put down "HS graduate" on their CV because of this. You can do EVERYTHING this proposed without doing that.

But then we wouldn't be able to exploit low income black and Latino neighborhoods into shouldering the burden if fixing their issues by themselves.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Free tuition and waiving fees at community college? Very good. Everything else? Shithouse.

This basically sums out my initial thoughts. It feels like something that could lead to increased drop-outs and/or being exploited, especially without increased funding.

 

[flyover]

This basically sums out my initial thoughts. It feels like something that could lead to increased drop-outs and/or being exploited, especially without increased funding.

That's exactly what'll happen (funding or no, imo).

 

[Two Words]

What is especially stupid about this is that you may genuinely want to work right out of high school, but not be able to find a job right away. Why withhold a diploma just because jobs can be hard to find sometimes?

 

[shintoki]

Dudes in this thread willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Rahm fucking Emanuel in 2017, dear gods.

This.

There is not a person in the state that needs to go more than him.

 

[Y2Kev]

I'd be fine with mandating all students see a counselor and develop a post high school plan as a precondition to graduating. I don't know what has to be in the plan (if anything), but I think it's a good idea to have the meeting. I don't know if CPS has the infrastructure to have thousands of students sit down with counselors though and think things through.

I had to do that in college. Before graduating, met with a graduate student or something and planned out the next couple of years. I actually really enjoyed it. It wasn't a precondition obviously. I would think an hour conversation with someone experienced at the beginning of my high school career might have been a little helpful.

I think anything that can teach people about personal finances, retirement savings, medical insurance, etc., is good and should be taught in schools. I knew none of that when I started working.

 

[Neoweee]

I'd be fine with mandating all students see a counselor and develop a post high school plan as a precondition to graduating. I don't know what has to be in the plan (if anything), but I think it's a good idea to have the meeting. I don't know if CPS has the infrastructure to have thousands of students sit down with counselors though and think things through.

I had to do that in college. Before graduating, met with a graduate student or something and planned out the next couple of years. I actually really enjoyed it. It wasn't a precondition obviously. I would think an hour conversation with someone experienced at the beginning of my high school career might have been a little helpful.

I think anything that can teach people about personal finances, retirement savings, medical insurance, etc., is good and should be taught in schools. I knew none of that when I started working.

That's essentially what this is. They get guaranteed admission to the City Colleges of Chicago.

We'll see if they actually pull it off. It doesn't really take more than an hour to apply. A hour meeting with a counselor, and proactive steps to ensuring they don't end up in a cycle of aimlessness? I don't think this is a terrible idea.

CCC is a shitshow, though. It does some good stuff (free courses for people that got over a 3.0 in high school), but their graduation rate is... low, and not just because they have a wide net.

 

[Whompa02]

Seems pretty difficult to secure that...

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

Seems pretty difficult to secure that...

It's not that hard to get accepted SOMEWHERE. It doesn't say you need to get into Harvard. Just apply to Southwest Community State and keep it moving.

 

[Neoweee]

Seems pretty difficult to secure that...

Chicago's community colleges literally accept them all. It says it in the article.

They don't need to attend. They just need to show that they've at least looked into community college and spent like 30 minutes filling out paperwork.

This restriction is wildly less burdensome than the 24 hours of community service that Illinois mandates.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Chicago's community colleges literally accept them all. It says it in the article.

They don't need to attend. They just need to show that they've at least looked into community college and spent like 30 minutes filling out paperwork.

This restriction is wildly less burdensome than the 24 hours of community service that Illinois mandates.

Why even have such a shitty restriction if it's so easy to game the system? Why bother with it in the first place?

Exactly yet you got these closet racist on here trying to defend it. They know exactly what they doing they been doing sly shit like this for decades. People thats defending it I dont see them saying how they want this nationwide.

Yup. "Black kids need a firmer hand than others..." is the same reason why studies show Black children get punished harsher than White kids for the same offenses in school and beyond. Disgusting.

 

[Neoweee]

Why even have such a shitty restriction if it's so easy to game the system? Why bother with it in the first place?

To help more graduating students make the right choice. Some fraction, even a few percent of students, heading to the CCC that would have otherwise leaked out of the system, comes out to thousands or tens of thousands of young people that won't just be out in the street to get recruited or victimized by gangs. Youth unemployment is a huge driver of violence and poverty in Chicago. This is just one of many initiative that should be done.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

To help more graduating students make the right choice. Some fraction, even a few percent of students, heading to the CCC that would have otherwise leaked out of the system, comes out to thousands or tens of thousands of young people that won't just be out in the street to get recruited or victimized by gangs. Youth unemployment is a huge driver of violence and poverty in Chicago. This is just one of many initiative that should be done.

You don't help by withholding a diploma to others that don't "plan" the way white liberals want them to. They passed their classes that's the end of it.

Maybe say "You can't attend the graduation ceremony" if you don't have shit lined up. But to withhold struggling kids from graduating? That's the act of an enemy. Not a friend. Tired of paternalistic "tough love" liberals. Just listen to the folks in these areas and ask them what they think the solutions are. Do you think "Don't let our kids graduate unless they doing X" is on the list??

 

[LinkAndEpona]

This again. We had this thread months ago. Once again people are going off on a bit of a hysterical fit with out bothering to actually find out the details of the program

First, a college acceptance letter is not the only way to get the diploma. You can have a job already or an offer on the table, a trade apprenticeship, join the military, and the language gives a lot of leeway as to what qualifies as "having a plan for what comes next".

Second the state has made it very easy to apply to and be accepted to a community college. Even if you don't go, it's very simple to get an acceptance letter.

Third and most importantly,this isn't schools just throwing kids out on their ass with a "good luck, you are an adult now!" Which is arguably what our system now is like. Instead, students will spend an entire year learning about what options they have for the future and working towards them with help from teachers and administration. As stated in the article, it's also on schools to make sure every single student has an option for their future by the time graduation comes around. That is a good thing. I do expect hiccups and issues as it begins, but the benefits are huge in setting a new expectation for what high school should provide kids. Changing from "good luck child, figure it out!" To "by the time you walk out these doors, you will feel secure in knowing what the next step in your journey is."

I too remember that thread and this is indeed good for helping the students decide for their future. It's a way to raise the standards, which is desperately needed.

 

[Parch]

Yep. Trying to funnel as many poor black kids into the army as they can.

How to increase enrollment without actually calling it a draft. It also paves the way for the US to fully reinstate the draft. It's only a matter of time.

I hear the North Korean forest is lovely this time of year.

 

[Dan]

Ideally, this program should require little or even no additional funds as it's a readjusting of priorities for both the senior students and staff. Meaning time and resources that would previously be spent on other things will instead be devoted to this year long program helping seniors prepare. Whether that holds true requires students, school systems, and parents to go all in on this. Which is where it could face issues. Everyone has to be willing to give it a fair shake and adjust how they see a senior year of school should proceed for it to work.
There are no doubt serious issues and complications that could arise when it comes to money, since the state seems to be run by incompetent corrupt fucknuts, but in my mind it's worth trying. It's worth making an effort to try and fix a failing system.

In regards to making all these things a requirement, I personally believe it is actually more focused on school systems as it will hold them accountable. It means school systems can't just "get em to the door", they have to help plan for after as well.

My faith isn't in the system in regards to the politicians and the district admin. But I do have faith in the teachers that will share the responsibility of getting this achieved. I say that as a teacher myself though. A program that would ensure my students, with my help, know exactly what comes next would be something I'd pursue passionately.

I'd like to hear more about where you think the time and resources will be reprioritized from such that this program doesn't require additional funding or doesn't detract from other necessary education efforts. Schools and teachers are already stretched pretty thin. It's difficult to imagine adding more responsibilities without sacrificing something else of value.

 

[JABEE]

If it is about forcing the school to help students get a job, how about counting students without a job right after school as failed in the official statistics for the school, but not screwing up the actual student?

They are the kind of policy makers who believe the pain of hunger will spur growth in the individual. They are the type of asshole who went to private school and was guided all the way from college to internship to internship as they ask why everyone else doesn’t do what their upper class neighborhood did. The type of schools with AP classes for every subject and multiple children going on to the Ivy League like their parents before them.

This is just one more reason to fuck with someone’s desire to graduate. One more obstacle for people facing hundreds more obstacles than Rahm’s children will have to face to live in this world.

This program is a cold and calculating lab experiment. It is tried on people the government is willing to expose to failure. Failure they would not allow their own children to endure.

 

[Cyframe]

Mammoth Jones pretty much said everything that needed to be said here. I don't know how anyone even with barebones knowledge of the chicago school district and Rahm, are still like, maybe this a good idea.

The fact of the matter is, this can be implemented without taking away opportunities from Black children by denying them a diploma.

 

[Neoweee]

You don't help by withholding a diploma to others that don't "plan" the way white liberals want them to. They passed their classes that's the end of it.

Maybe say "You can't attend the graduation ceremony" if you don't have shit lined up. But to withhold struggling kids from graduating? That's the act of an enemy. Not a friend. Tired of paternalistic "tough love" liberals. Just listen to the folks in these areas and ask them what they think the solutions are. Do you think "Don't let our kids graduate unless they doing X" is on the list??

How many people do you think this is actually going to hold back from graduating? It is like half an hour of being led through an application with a counselor. This restriction is utterly insignificant compared to the city requiring 40 hours of community service. That is a big road block. A meeting with a counselor isn't.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

How many people do you think this is actually going to hold back from graduating? It is like half an hour of being led through an application with a counselor. This restriction is utterly insignificant compared to the city requiring 40 hours of community service. That is a big road block. A meeting with a counselor isn't.

You're being disingenuous to attempt to frame this as "a meeting with a counselor".

And if it fucks over one student that would otherwise graduate it's shit policy. This doesn't help anyone. It's paternalistic bullshit from white liberals that haven't otherwise given a single fuck about black and brown kids in Chicago.

But now they care? And this policy demonstrates that? There are better ways to steer children towards a productive future. You don't do that by saying "You better be doing what we white liberals approve of or you don't get to graduate". Fuck. That. Rham spent how long ignoring these communities? Now he's doing the right thing? "Well it could be worse for them so accept this" doesn't hold water.

I can't make my point any simpler than this: One does not help Black children by threatening to withhold a high school diploma when they have made their grades. Anyone claiming otherwise does not have our best interest at heart. They are an enemy. Point blank. Which while sad isn't surprising.

 

[timetokill]

Obama

You're not president anymore

Come get your boy