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Chinese-American grandpa fatally shot by security guard while playing Pokemon Go

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F

F34R

Member
Hero said:
What explanation is there to shoot an old grandfather playing a video game on a phone in a parked vehicle? Go on, I'm listening.
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Well, you don't know for a fact what he was doing when this happened. Age and having kids/grandkids or not doesn't actually define whether someone getting shot is justified or not.

Going by the info that there were shots going in the front windshield and a side window, it could be the guy drove at the security guard and he fired at the guy.

All I'm saying is that people see a headline, and a brief piece of information and jump through all kinds of comments about convict this guy, jail, murder, etc., without knowing WHY the guard shot this man.

Whether that's justified or not is up to the courts.
 
C

capitalCORN

Member
F34R said:
Well, you don't know for a fact what he was doing when this happened. Age and having kids/grandkids or not doesn't actually define whether someone getting shot is justified or not.

Going by the info that there were shots going in the front windshield and a side window, it could be the guy drove at the security guard and he fired at the guy.

All I'm saying is that people see a headline, and a brief piece of information and jump through all kinds of comments about convict this guy, jail, murder, etc., without knowing WHY the guard shot this man.

Whether that's justified or not is up to the courts.
Click to expand...

“His family is a homeowner in the area,” said Sandler. “Ironically, he is one of the people security is supposed to be protecting as a homeowner.”
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The same neighborhood he calls home?
 
R

RinsFury

Member
Fuck, this is so goddamn heartbreaking. I am crying thinking about this kind old grandfather that only wanted to play Pokemon with his grandkids being gunned down by this heartless Zimmerman wannabe rentacop fuck. So gut wrenchingly awful.

Lock that piece of shit up forever. I hope he never sees the sun again.
 
F

F34R

Member
capitalCORN said:
The same neighborhood he calls home?
Click to expand...
How is that even relevant? Because he lives in the neighborhood means he wouldn't drive at the security guard?

Look, I'm not saying that is or isn't what happened. I'm just not going to say this guard is guilty of a crime without all the facts being known. If there is enough evidence to charge this person, then by all means, charge him and let him be judge by a jury in a court of law.
 
H

Hero

Member
F34R said:
Well, you don't know for a fact what he was doing when this happened. Age and having kids/grandkids or not doesn't actually define whether someone getting shot is justified or not.

Going by the info that there were shots going in the front windshield and a side window, it could be the guy drove at the security guard and he fired at the guy.

All I'm saying is that people see a headline, and a brief piece of information and jump through all kinds of comments about convict this guy, jail, murder, etc., without knowing WHY the guard shot this man.

Whether that's justified or not is up to the courts.
Click to expand...

There are only two parties that can give us information as to why a shooting took place. One of those parties is dead. Do you think we should believe anything the remaining party says when he was illegally carrying a fire arm on duty?
 
C

capitalCORN

Member
F34R said:
How is that even relevant? Because he lives in the neighborhood means he wouldn't drive at the security guard?

Look, I'm not saying that is or isn't what happened. I'm just not going to say this guard is guilty of a crime without all the facts being known. If there is enough evidence to charge this person, then by all means, charge him and let him be judge by a jury in a court of law.
Click to expand...

You think that low of immigrants to attempt murder at every opportunity? For someone who espouses to wait for fair conviction, you sure like to throw your weight for the guard.

http://pilotonline.com/news/local/c...cle_4a8ca18c-f567-541e-ae0a-915160987909.html
 
K

Kettch

Member
As long as the report about the car being parked is true, then there should be no possible defense for shooting someone through a window. Can't even use the "ninja'd me from the bushes" Zimmerman defense here.

The justice system for minorities always finds new ways to disappoint me though, so who knows.
 
F

F34R

Member
capitalCORN said:
You think that low of immigrants to attempt murder at every opportunity? For someone who espouses to wait for fair conviction, you sure like to throw your weight for the guard.
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Huh? Goodness. This doesn't have anything to do with an immigrant, a guard, or me throwing anything for anyone. This has to do with anyone being accused of a crime.

My comment was specifically about the blatant automatic "this guy is a murderer" without even knowing full well why any of this happened.

I asked how someone can just automatically think this guy is guilty of murder based on so little information. Is that how you want to be judged?
 
M

Maebe

Member
This is just depressing. Guard needs to be locked up for murder. There's no threat in an old man playing a videogame.
 
M

Massive Duck. C.M.

Banned
F34R said:
Huh? Goodness. This doesn't have anything to do with an immigrant, a guard, or me throwing anything for anyone. This has to do with anyone being accused of a crime.

My comment was specifically about the blatant automatic "this guy is a murderer" without even knowing full well why any of this happened.

I asked how someone can just automatically think this guy is guilty of murder based on so little information. Is that how you want to be judged?
Click to expand...

You're still going with an assumption, just in the other direction.
 
F

F34R

Member
Massive Duck said:
You're still going with an assumption, just in the other direction.
Click to expand...

I'm not assuming anything. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. That's how I grew up. I don't just go around accusing people of murder based on a article title, and less than a paragraph of actual incident details.
 
M

Massive Duck. C.M.

Banned
F34R said:
I'm not assuming anything. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. That's how I grew up. I don't just go around accusing people of murder based on a article title, and less than a paragraph of actual incident details.
Click to expand...

You're giving a security guard who wasn't supposed to be carrying a firearm the benefit of the doubt based on a lack of stated malicious intent. That's fine but don't try to position yourself as more reasonable
 
F

F34R

Member
Massive Duck said:
You're giving a security guard who wasn't supposed to be carrying a firearm the benefit of the doubt based on a lack of stated malicious intent. That's fine but don't try to position yourself as more reasonable
Click to expand...
I never said there is any benefit of the doubt. I don't even know what the heck happened beyond a security guard shot and killed someone, more than one window was shot through. I'm not saying he's innocent and I'm not saying he's guilty.

What's wrong with that?
 
J

Jacksinthe

Banned
Diablohead said:
Reading that the guy who shot the gun has not been charged (yet) is a crime itself.
Click to expand...
Shooting someone isn't a crime in itself. The reason for the shooting makes it a crime or not.

Believe it or not, this happens with straight up murder, too. Evidence, witnesses, etc. We don't live in a dictatorship. You can't just charge someone for something you don't have proof of (at least that's how it's supposed to work).

You can bring the guy in, question him, etc. Then you get evidence, witnesses, etc. If you can bring a case to the DA then you press charges and off you go to court.

That's how it works in America. Due process might not be a thing in your country but it is here.

Note because this is GAF: I'm just explaining how it works. Not taking the side of the security guard that shot the man in the van.
 
C

capitalCORN

Member
F34R said:
I never said there is any benefit of the doubt. I don't even know what the heck happened beyond a security guard shot and killed someone, more than one window was shot through. I'm not saying he's innocent and I'm not saying he's guilty.

What's wrong with that?
Click to expand...

Here's your judgement

F34R said:
I'm not assuming anything. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. That's how I grew up. I don't just go around accusing people of murder based on a article title, and less than a paragraph of actual incident details.
Click to expand...

One again: Why do you assume the victim guilty until proven innocent?
 
F

Fahzgoolin

Banned
Are we missing any details on what happened? Or is this security guard just a wicked asshole that decided to take someone's life and ruin his own?

Part of me finds it hard to believe that a dude sitting in a van would get shot for no reason. Another part of me is just disgusted that humanity is so consistently jacked up.
 
X

xDUMPWEEDx

Banned
Alienfan said:
The police shouldn't carry, let alone a security guard. This is murder
Click to expand...
3o7abCJnPhzwYzbvDW.gif


As for the shooter... Observe & Report, man. If something looks suspicious all you have to do is call the Police and report it to them.
 
F

F34R

Member
capitalCORN said:
Here's your judgement



One again: Why do you assume to victim guilty until proven innocent?
Click to expand...

That doesn't make any sense. Victims aren't determined to be innocent or guilty. Guilt or innocence is for a judge, or jury, to determine regarding a crime.
 
C

capitalCORN

Member
F34R said:
That doesn't make any sense. Victims aren't determined to be innocent or guilty. Guilt or innocence is for a judge, or jury, to determine regarding a crime.
Click to expand...

If you stick the the assailants innocence, what are you saying about the victim?

When Reddit rails against you, you know you've done wrong.

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/5r81yp/attorney_60yearold_chesapeake_man_shot_killed/

https://np.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5qpery/va_unarmed_man_shot_dead_in_his_car_by_security/
 
S

see5harp

Member
What's fucked up to me is that this shit happened a full week ago and yet we're just hearing about it today. These investigators better get on this shit quick unless they want a huge shitstorm.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
ant_ said:
Nothing. I think the old man dying is a tragedy and likely unjustified. I don't know, though.

I highly doubt that it was just a racist white security guard walking around with a gun taking target practice at anyone who is non-white, as the person I quoted is implying. This framing of the tragedy is pretty vapid.
Click to expand...

Vapid implies this is a rare occurrence.

It's not.
 
C

capitalCORN

Member
F34R said:
I don't get what you mean by this.

Do you not understand the basic idea that someone is innocent of a crime until they've been proven guilty? Do you just automatically say that someone is guilty of a crime without knowing all the facts and evidence?
Click to expand...

I love how you ignore my links. By all examples, the victim exhibited none of the requirements to be considered a threat. But you will allow this asshat to murder a man because 'let's leave it to the judges', because justice is blind.
 
S

Shoeless

Member
F34R said:
I don't get what you mean by this.

Do you not understand the basic idea that someone is innocent of a crime until they've been proven guilty? Do you just automatically say that someone is guilty of a crime without knowing all the facts and evidence?
Click to expand...

Innocent until proven guilty is obviously the way to go when it comes to a court case, but certain facts are already in place, if the news report is accurate. The man was shot in the car, five times, he had poor English skills, and the guard was not supposed to be carrying firearms, but was in violation of that anyway, and, again, assuming the report is true, the guard was the one that shot the resident, and not some other third party intruder.

If we assume that it's at least factual that the security guard did shoot the grandfather, then there's no question of guilt, only the extent to which that guilt should be prosecuted. Absolute, best case scenario for the security guard is that it was justifiable self-defense, and no charges may be required at all. At the absolute worst, which would require a lot of proof, is that it is premeditated, in which case we're looking at murder one, though it looks like, in all likelihood, this is more man-slaughter. Evidence really doesn't support a planned murder in this case.

But to be fair, if it's already known that he did in fact shoot the grandfather, there's no question of guilt, only the degree of guilt.
 
F

F34R

Member
capitalCORN said:
I love how you ignore my links. By all examples, the victim exhibited none of the requirements to be considered a threat. But you will allow this asshat to murder a man because 'let's leave it to the judges', because justice is blind.
Click to expand...

This link that you provided:
https://np.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5qpery/va_unarmed_man_shot_dead_in_his_car_by_security/

Pretty much backs up what I'm saying. I didn't ALLOW anything for goodness sake. I simply asked someone how they can say this man murdered someone without knowing more about what happened. Jesus.

Look, you and I are done. There isn't any way to explain it any better to you. I believe that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I feel terrible for this family that they lost a loved one. I feel terrible that a man lost his life. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to go rabid and accuse someone of murder without knowing all the details about what happened.

The link you gave, that I posted above, is filled with the idea that the investigation is on going and even the family members don't know all the facts yet.

Shoeless said:
Innocent until proven guilty is obviously the way to go when it comes to a court case, but certain facts are already in place, if the news report is accurate. The man was shot in the car, five times, he had poor English skills, and the guard was not supposed to be carrying firearms, but was in violation of that anyway, and, again, assuming the report is true, the guard was the one that shot the resident, and not some other third party intruder.

If we assume that it's at least factual that the security guard did shoot the grandfather, then there's no question of guild, only the extent to which that guilt should be prosecuted. Absolute, best case scenario for the security guard is that it was justifiable self-defense, and no charges may be required at all. At the absolute worst, which would require a lot of proof, is that it is premeditated, in which case we're looking at murder one, though it looks like, in all likelihood, this is more man-slaughter. Evidence really doesn't support a planned murder in this case.

But to be fair, if it's already known that he did in fact shoot the grandfather, there's no question of guilt, only the degree of guilt.
Click to expand...

I never said he didn't shoot the man. I know the man was shot, and the security guard did it. My comments were solely about the frequent posts about this guy being guilty of murder. I agree with you almost completely. We don't know whether he was allowed to carry the firearm or not. What we know is that the contract was for unarmed security. There's a difference. Once the info from the company is released, we'll know more about that.

Again, this isn't about whether he did or didn't shoot the man.
 
C

capitalCORN

Member
F34R said:
This link that you provided:
https://np.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5qpery/va_unarmed_man_shot_dead_in_his_car_by_security/

Pretty much backs up what I'm saying. I didn't ALLOW anything for goodness sake. I simply asked someone how they can say this man murdered someone without knowing more about what happened. Jesus.

Look, you and I are done. There isn't any way to explain it any better to you. I believe that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I feel terrible for this family that they lost a loved one. I feel terrible that a man lost his life. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to go rabid and accuse someone of murder without knowing all the details about what happened.

The link you gave, that I posted above, is filled with the idea that the investigation is on going and even the family members don't know all the facts yet.
Click to expand...

I gave more than one link, stop being selective. Once again, you rally for the perpetrator rather than the victim. There's enough details abound to make a solid decision, but you will sit comfortably behind the 'judicial branch'
 
T

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
jellies_two said:
I've already seen, in type, by a IANAL type, the potential defense:

the van - 3000lbs - may be considered as a deadly weapon and perhaps he had started it and was trying to drive off.
(rebuttal by family - but it was in park!)
even 5 shots don't kill someone straight away, he may have turned the engine off and put it into park before dying.

Yes, this is a real "this could be the scenario / wait for the facts" analysis, from someone smart enough to type in whole paragraphs.
Click to expand...

Someone who was being shot at put their vehicle in park?
jlawok.gif
 
B

Bladenic

Member
I swear to god if I see someone say "he should've learned to speak English..."

The security guard better be thrown in prison. Isn't it some sort of illegal for a security guard to carry a gun when on duty when they're supposed to be unarmed?
 
H

Herr Schwarz

Banned
Hey yo, Mr.Security Guard, it's not your job to shoot members of the public you moron, there's a process to this thing that you are legally supposed to adhere to.

You spot the danger/suspicion, call the cops, then the cops shoot the guy for you.

Idiot.
 
T

therealist

Member
Isn't it a reach to automatically assume that this was racially motivated. Statistically speaking Asians are much less likely to get shot than any minority, and they are less likely to get shot than white people.
 
C

capitalCORN

Member
therealist said:
Isn't it a reach to automatically assume that this was racially motivated. Statistically speaking Asians are much less likely to get shot than any minority, and they are less likely to get shot than white people.
Click to expand...

Are you really waiting for the slippery slope to kick in?
http://usa.inquirer.net/1068/new-website-track-hate-crimes-asians-pacific-islanders
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-raci...ished-and-unacknowledged-in-the-United-States
http://www.asian-nation.org/racism.shtml
https://mic.com/articles/165166/94-...-anti-muslim-sentiment-report-says#.1aH06sVRX
 
T

TheOMan

Tagged as I see fit
F34R said:
Well, you don't know for a fact what he was doing when this happened. Age and having kids/grandkids or not doesn't actually define whether someone getting shot is justified or not.

Going by the info that there were shots going in the front windshield and a side window, it could be the guy drove at the security guard and he fired at the guy.

All I'm saying is that people see a headline, and a brief piece of information and jump through all kinds of comments about convict this guy, jail, murder, etc., without knowing WHY the guard shot this man.

Whether that's justified or not is up to the courts.
Click to expand...

Sorry, was there an article that stated the vehicle was driven at the guard? Was it not in park??

Based on what I've read, that guard committed murder. It's a travesty that he hasn't been charged. Disgusting.
 
D

dohdough

Member
therealist said:
Isn't it a reach to automatically assume that this was racially motivated. Statistically speaking Asians are much less likely to get shot than any minority, and they are less likely to get shot than white people.
Click to expand...

No. Just because we don't experience racism in the exact same way or proportion as other PoC do, doesn't mean we don't experience it in a meaningful way. The fact that the guy wasn't charged or held for any meaningful amount of time strongly suggests that the killer is white despite there being witnesses and the Yellow Peril nor Perpetual Foreigner perceptions never went away.

One thing we have in common with the black community is that justice is almost never served in cases like this or worse than this.
 
A

ant_

not characteristic of ants at all
capitalCORN said:
Are you really waiting for the slippery slope to kick in?
http://usa.inquirer.net/1068/new-website-track-hate-crimes-asians-pacific-islanders
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-raci...ished-and-unacknowledged-in-the-United-States
http://www.asian-nation.org/racism.shtml
https://mic.com/articles/165166/94-...-anti-muslim-sentiment-report-says#.1aH06sVRX
Click to expand...

None of these links do what you think they do. No one is denying that hate crimes against Asian-Americans exist.

BUT - those of you instantly concluding that this was a racially motivated hate crime and that it was a white man shooting an asian person because "white people hate minorities" are pretty disgusting. We don't know the race of the shooter. We don't know anything about the tragedy other than an innocent Asian man was shot and killed.

Do I discount that the shooter being a racist white man as a possibility? Absolutely not. Do I instantly think it's a certainty? Absolutely not.
 
Z

Zaraki_Kenpachi

Member
Thank God F34R is here to make baseless assumptions to excuse murdering Asians in cold blood.

Disgusting all around, especially when you realize his difficult it is to even picture how this situation could have even gone down. Looks like someone else will get off on cold blooded murder.
 
C

capitalCORN

Member
ant_ said:
None of these links do what you think they do. No one is denying that hate crimes exist.

BUT - those of you instantly concluding that this was a racially motivated hate crime and that it was a white man shooting an asian person because "white people hate minorities" are pretty disgusting. We don't know the race of the shooter. We don't know anything about the tragedy other than an innocent Asian man was shot and killed.

Do I discount that the shooter being a racist white man as a possibility? Absolutely not. Do I instantly think it's a certainty? Absolutely not.
Click to expand...

Like I said before, wanna play slippery slopes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Vincent_Chin
 
A

ant_

not characteristic of ants at all
capitalCORN said:
You are waiting for a directive of a force well known for corruption to assume your bias. Once again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Vincent_Chin
Click to expand...
What? Like I said man, I'm not denying that hate crimes against Asian Americans exist. I'm also not denying that this event was a tragedy and the security guard should be prosecuted based off the facts currently available.

I'm saying that the people instantly jumping to conclusions that the shooter is white (no one knows the race of the shooter) and that it was a hate crime perpetuated by a white mans' racism (no one knows why he shot at the van) are volatile. It's disgusting and wrong to make such assumptions.

Edit -- my quote was before you added more links. Those other links also provide nothing to the argument. I'm not denying that hate crimes against Asian Americans exist. The crimes you presented are a disgusting affront to anyone with moral values. I agree with you.
 
C

capitalCORN

Member
ant_ said:
What? Like I said man, I'm not denying that hate crimes against Asian Americans exist. I'm also not denying that this event was a tragedy and the security guard should be prosecuted based off the facts currently available.

I'm saying that the people instantly jumping to conclusions that the shooter is white (no one knows the race of the shooter) and that it was a hate crime perpetuated by a white mans' racism (no one knows why he shot at the van) are volatile. It's disgusting and wrong to make such assumptions.
Click to expand...

Then, for your sake, let's wait for the consequences.
 
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