Chris Dring - I asked[Xbox] for clarification on the "Game Pass is profitable" claim, and was told no first party costs are included.
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Peroroncino
Member
He's just fishing
Go play some games instead.
And that's why you can never take dring too seriously and jump on a bandwagon of whatever he said.
At least I don't.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Part of my nefarious plan… a dastardly one…
J/K, I felt it was deserved. Thanks for your honesty and clarity
.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
??? How does Gamepass's unprofitability invalidate those claims? If Apple TV operates at a loss, does that automatically diminish the quality of its shows relative to the consumer's cost? C'mon people apply some logic and common sense. Fucking hell.
Holammer
Member
Said it many times, if Game Pass was ever profitable Sony & Nintendo would have copied the service years ago. Now that I think about it, NetEase & Tencent would have moved even faster. The only company attempting something similar just happened to be Apple, another company with the infinite money glitch.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Part of my nefarious plan… a dastardly one…
J/K, I felt it was deserved. Thanks for your honesty and clarity
haha, Now I am a little concerned
Seriously, though it felt good to get it off my chest. That purchase was clearly the worst purchase in the history of gaming and MS hoodwinked a lot of people that enjoyed their platform.
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He's just fishing
Go play some games instead.
It's always like this with Dring's news and comments... Clickbait that generates controversy and misinformation, followed by the typical tweet where he backtracks, tries to clarify and provide context for his words, and then blames people for misinterpreting him, followed by the final point of "people should just focus on playing."
Pure and great example of video game journalism.....
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
It's always like this with Dring's news and comments... Clickbait that generates controversy and misinformation, followed by the typical tweet where he backtracks, tries to clarify and provide context for his words, and then blames people for misinterpreting him, followed by the final point of "people should just focus on playing."
Pure and great example of video game journalism.....
The worst part about all of this is that it just causes a lot of confusion. Gamepass could be profitable for all we know and now he has created enough confusion to stoke the fires of all out console warring on both sides.
Should have kept his mouth closed.
Microsoft is going third party, all this drawn out drama is part of that process. It almost feels like Activision took over XBOX and not the other way around, once they've got their current games in development that they can't cancel out of the door expect a focus on bankable annual/biannual slop and easily monetiseable games.
Daddy wants his money back.
Crispy Gamer
Member
I don't understand how you can determine if anything is profitable without including dev cost.
Ar¢tos
Member
Developments in math this past decade have completely changed everything everywhere.
Don't forget that 2+2 can be 5 depending on the socio-economic conditions of the person making the calculation, for example.
MS is simply using modern math while the rest of the world is stuck in the jurassic period.
Action Jackson
Member
I get that this is mainly a management control issue but wouldn't at least part of these creative accounting shenanigans also have to go through MS''s auditors (Deloitte or whatever) and get their nod of approval?
I guess there is lots of pressure with MS being their biggest client and at least some collusion but to have this basically go unchecked / uncontested for years is something else.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
PS Plus is literally that, just without the day 1 first-party games. What are you talking about man?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I am not completely aware of the financial regulations in the U.S., but the general rule is that companies aren't legally required to break down the P&L by specific products and services.
If they are breaking down by "Gaming Content & Services" that would include everything: Xbox hardware, Game Pass, third-party and first-party game sales, MTX, etc. And that they could simply post the revenue, expenses, and then their profits/loss with margins. And that'd be sufficient. I don't think this constitutes a legal issue.
Now, if a shareholder specifically asks them in their Earnings Calls, and they lie about that, then that's a problem.
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Kerotan
Member
Bro I literally said it from Day 1. MS were trying to create good PR by pretending it's profitable when it ain't.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
This should be the new Tony Hawk OT. Just change the title.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Because its not the answer, and its going to drive their division into the ground in the long run. Its not a sustainable business, it was always a hail marry from them to take over main mindshare of the gaming public, become the netflix of gaming than leverage that into future success. Their obviously was no plan for it failing.
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
But but engagement hours played and more of those bulshit numbers to fool everyone is in the MS suits dna....
mayham2199
Member
Why would I care that his new sources told him something different? S SneakersSO already confirmed Drings initial tweet and he's a source I trust more than anyone else.
On top of that this issue still remains:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Because you're posting in a Chris Dring thread which is now outdated because of a new Chris Dring thread?
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I was a bonafide Xbox fanboy during the original Xbox years. The PS3 having a bluray drive and MS trying to back HD-DVD to force people into digital downloads really soured me on supporting MS ever again.
Still I had a 360 and put many hours of gaming into it. I got my 360 in November of 2006 a full year after it came out. I had a blast with Gears of War. 2007 was easily the best year for Xbox in terms of exclusives.
They had people like Peter Moore, J. Allard, and Shane Kim, people who knew gaming.
Right now, I passionately hate Microsoft for their culture more than ever. it will be a truly great day when I can shed every MS product I own.
However....and this is hilarious....if somehow MS rights the ship and can make a Windows that runs gaming exclusively without all the bloat, that would make me VERY happy and something I would praise them to the moon for. That is their ONE move that can make me happy. I will, of course, continue to buy good games like Indiana Jones and Doom Dark Ages if they release them. But I wont buy mediocre shit like Avowed.
I so badly want SteamOS/Bazzite/Linux to take off, but it still needs a few things to happen before that has a chance:
1. Get nvidia on board to improve their drivers. Right now...it's especially bad on DX12 titles, which is why I wish all developers would move to Vulkan....the performance is for nvidia GPU is basically a tier below what it is on Windows (ala 5070 performance with a 5070 Ti)...there are some encouraging signs that nvidia is waking up to this and their drivers have massively improved in the last year. Its still got a ways to go.
2. AMD needs to solve their Linux HDMI 2.1 issues. This is mostly on the HDMI Forum being tyrants and it doesnt really matter if you ise DisplayPort, but if you're someone who hooks up their SteamOS system to their TV, not being able to take advantage of 4K/144 w/ 10-bit HDR 444RGB is a big deal.
mayham2199
Member
Which was also confirmed by another source S SneakersSO . Also he still confirmed first party dev costs aren't included.
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Mr Moose
Member
It's not outdated, he's saying the same shit still with more fluff.
They don't deduct anything from Game Pass with first party titles, if they did it would not be profitable.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yes, why would first party costs need to be counted only under GP? He already clarified the reason why.
Will anyone put, let's say Gears Reloaded's development cost entirely under GP, even though that game is available for premium sale as well? I'd say no. You are free to disagree.
Mr Moose
Member
Loss of sale. It's not rocket science.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Which is something his 'sources' have explicitly told him still account for the service being profitable.
Mr Moose
Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I mean it could be. He has two conflicting sources telling him opposite things to each other.
Mr Moose
Member
I think maybe with some of their games it could be true, but with games like CoD? Nah.
mayham2199
Member
Baemono
Member
Okay the whole point of the third party deals with GP, specially with day one releases (like Expedition 33) is that in exchange of a day one release on GP, they get money in advance, right ? So it can help with production costs, if not all the way making the game possible (for indie devs for eg). GP has a pool of money thanks to the monthly revenue they get, so they use that money to grow the service.
In the meantime, you (at least Dring, in his original tweet) would imagine they kinda do the same for 1st party games, to help with production costs. Like if Indiana Jones costs 200m$ to make, you would imagine the fact that they put it day one on GP would result in a deal between the company handling the GP (like "Xbox Services LLC" or akin) and Bethesda, the official publisher of the game.
And that the balance of revenue from subscriptions vs costs to put games on the GP would be balanced to show profitability. But Dring is being told this is not the case for 1st part games, they don't count them. So he said in his original tweet that if they did the second part, they woud probably be not profitable.
And then he was told MS' own calculations of lost sales of 1st party games would still make GP profitable. Without really addressing the second part (aka what does it cost to put day one games on the GP, besides hypotetic lost sales).
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
What changed? He is saying exactly the same thing.
It's profitable*
*dev costs are not included.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Does Game Pass cannibalize game sales? Yes.
Would games sell more copies if Game Pass didn't exist? Yes.
That's the reason why part of dev costs should be counted under GP.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Great question.
I'd also like to know how much money cod makes from season passes and microtransactions etc. For all we know those could cover a lot of the development budget.
Mod edit: we don't need new reactions to a withdrawn/clarified tweet so can people debate the clarity/obfuscation of the latest debacle here please:
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