Support NeoGAF

[DenchDeckard]

Fully agree. At the time, people were looking for something to put Microsoft in the game. Studios and development had become so tough to manage from the ground up or grass roots level that there seemed no option but to buy studios.

After the interest from Facebook etc I admit I thought that MS was probably the best choice. Boy was I wrong.

They've done nothing but destroy their entire gaming division and now lay off 9000 people who were innocently caught up in this bullshit. Fuck them for that.

I wanted the platform to be great but microsofts leadership are clueless.

Shame on me. They won't fool me again.

Thanks for the Gold P Panajev2001a - Much appreciated

 

[Peroroncino]

He's just fishing

Go play some games instead.

And that's why you can never take dring too seriously and jump on a bandwagon of whatever he said.

At least I don't.

 

[Ozzie666]

The cheque cleared or the ransom photos were sent.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Thanks for the Gold P Panajev2001a - Much appreciated

Part of my nefarious plan… a dastardly one…

J/K, I felt it was deserved. Thanks for your honesty and clarity .

 

[hemo memo]

"I love Gamepass"

"Best deal in gaming"

"Such value"

These people killed Xbox, well done *slow clap*

??? How does Gamepass's unprofitability invalidate those claims? If Apple TV operates at a loss, does that automatically diminish the quality of its shows relative to the consumer's cost? C'mon people apply some logic and common sense. Fucking hell.

 

[Holammer]

Said it many times, if Game Pass was ever profitable Sony & Nintendo would have copied the service years ago. Now that I think about it, NetEase & Tencent would have moved even faster. The only company attempting something similar just happened to be Apple, another company with the infinite money glitch.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Part of my nefarious plan… a dastardly one…

J/K, I felt it was deserved. Thanks for your honesty and clarity .

haha, Now I am a little concerned

Seriously, though it felt good to get it off my chest. That purchase was clearly the worst purchase in the history of gaming and MS hoodwinked a lot of people that enjoyed their platform.

 

[Human 2.0]

Well, that explains how Phil was able to claim it's profitable publicly, which, in the US, is a crime for a publicly traded company to do if it's not true. It would seem Microsoft is using it's creative accounting practices, likely to use Xbox's losses to offset its taxable dues elsewhere.

Given that Xbox's first party sales have collapsed thanks to Game Pass, I would expect the strategy is to sell its titles on other platforms as a way to subsidise the losses of Game Pass on its own platforms. The higher the price on PlayStation, for example, the more attractive Game Pass becomes. However, Phil has stated the strategy is to get Game Pass onto every platform - which I would presume includes PlayStation and Nintendo - which would then cannibalise those sales, too. If they're not profitable at 35 million subscribers, I'm curious what their breakeven point actually is.

15 billion subscribers.

 

[Darsxx82]

He's just fishing

Go play some games instead.

It's always like this with Dring's news and comments... Clickbait that generates controversy and misinformation, followed by the typical tweet where he backtracks, tries to clarify and provide context for his words, and then blames people for misinterpreting him, followed by the final point of "people should just focus on playing."


Pure and great example of video game journalism.....

 

[DenchDeckard]

It's always like this with Dring's news and comments... Clickbait that generates controversy and misinformation, followed by the typical tweet where he backtracks, tries to clarify and provide context for his words, and then blames people for misinterpreting him, followed by the final point of "people should just focus on playing."


Pure and great example of video game journalism.....

The worst part about all of this is that it just causes a lot of confusion. Gamepass could be profitable for all we know and now he has created enough confusion to stoke the fires of all out console warring on both sides.

Should have kept his mouth closed.

 

[Ar¢tos]

The mental gymnastics people are coming up with to make this a positive for Xbox are hilarious!!

 

[Human 2.0]

1) PS+ is already a competitor to Game Pass. It's cheaper, has more games, and has more subscribers.
2) It'll be good because then Xbox, without Game Pass, will have to focus on things that actually matter: making great games that can toe-to-toe with PlayStation's games. That's where they will fund long-term, sustainable success.

Microsoft is going third party, all this drawn out drama is part of that process. It almost feels like Activision took over XBOX and not the other way around, once they've got their current games in development that they can't cancel out of the door expect a focus on bankable annual/biannual slop and easily monetiseable games.

Daddy wants his money back.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

I don't understand how you can determine if anything is profitable without including dev cost.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I don't understand how you can determine if anything is profitable without including dev cost.

Developments in math this past decade have completely changed everything everywhere.
Don't forget that 2+2 can be 5 depending on the socio-economic conditions of the person making the calculation, for example.
MS is simply using modern math while the rest of the world is stuck in the jurassic period.

 

[Action Jackson]

They would if they were operating Xbox as a separate division with its own P&L and CF statements. That's not the case.

Also, they don't breakdown Game Pass revenue and profits in their financial books. So none is the wiser.

That's only possible because of how gigantic Microsoft is - so many of their stupid crap can be hidden in the books and no one would even notice or care. But the Microsoft Executives know, which is why they are pulling the rug under Xbox's feet now.

I get that this is mainly a management control issue but wouldn't at least part of these creative accounting shenanigans also have to go through MS''s auditors (Deloitte or whatever) and get their nod of approval?

I guess there is lots of pressure with MS being their biggest client and at least some collusion but to have this basically go unchecked / uncontested for years is something else.

 

[hemo memo]

Said it many times, if Game Pass was ever profitable Sony & Nintendo would have copied the service years ago. Now that I think about it, NetEase & Tencent would have moved even faster. The only company attempting something similar just happened to be Apple, another company with the infinite money glitch.

PS Plus is literally that, just without the day 1 first-party games. What are you talking about man?

 

[Heisenberg007]

I get that this is mainly a management control issue but wouldn't at least part of these creative accounting shenanigans also have to go through MS''s auditors (Deloitte or whatever) and get their nod of approval?

I guess there is lots of pressure with MS being their biggest client and at least some collusion but to have this basically go unchecked / uncontested for years is something else.

I am not completely aware of the financial regulations in the U.S., but the general rule is that companies aren't legally required to break down the P&L by specific products and services.

If they are breaking down by "Gaming Content & Services" that would include everything: Xbox hardware, Game Pass, third-party and first-party game sales, MTX, etc. And that they could simply post the revenue, expenses, and then their profits/loss with margins. And that'd be sufficient. I don't think this constitutes a legal issue.

Now, if a shareholder specifically asks them in their Earnings Calls, and they lie about that, then that's a problem.

 

[Kerotan]

So basically what some of us have been saying since 2022: Game Pass isn't profitable.

Never mind they admitted this in court to the FTC when they said it cannibalized game sales.

But, let the denialists and shills find a way to spin this. They always manage to.

Bro I literally said it from Day 1. MS were trying to create good PR by pretending it's profitable when it ain't.

 

[calico]

Should we believe his first set of statements of fact or his directly contradictory second set? Either way this clown should now be a banned source.

 

[adamsapple]

Time to close this topic, I guess.

Thread 'Christopher dring 'clarifies' his stance on gamepass.'

Today at 8:42 AM

• Sebastian1295
• Replies: 125
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 
• 

 

[Punished Miku]

Time to close this topic, I guess.

Thread 'Christopher dring 'clarifies' his stance on gamepass.'

Today at 8:42 AM

• Sebastian1295
• Replies: 125
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 
• 

This should be the new Tony Hawk OT. Just change the title.

 

[Pagusas]

How would that help? Gamepass was the answer to the problem of what does the xbox offer over the PlayStation. They start killing gamepass then they still have all those staff remaining they have to pay and a dwindling revenue stream.

Because its not the answer, and its going to drive their division into the ground in the long run. Its not a sustainable business, it was always a hail marry from them to take over main mindshare of the gaming public, become the netflix of gaming than leverage that into future success. Their obviously was no plan for it failing.

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

Answer: So they can fudge the numbers and use them in marketing stuff and for "evangalizers".

But but engagement hours played and more of those bulshit numbers to fool everyone is in the MS suits dna....

 

[mayham2199]

Time to close this topic, I guess.

Thread 'Christopher dring 'clarifies' his stance on gamepass.'

Today at 8:42 AM

• Sebastian1295
• Replies: 125
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 
• 

Why would I care that his new sources told him something different? S SneakersSO already confirmed Drings initial tweet and he's a source I trust more than anyone else.

On top of that this issue still remains:

 

[adamsapple]

Why would I care that his new sources told him something different? S SneakersSO already confirmed Drings initial tweet and he's a source I trust more than anyone else.

Because you're posting in a Chris Dring thread which is now outdated because of a new Chris Dring thread?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

lol I appreciate it but not sure why - Dring put a bow on it.

There is a much larger narrative that should be discussed surrounding this, about how anyone in tech journalism, yes that includes anyone who considers themselves a games journalist or blogger, has repeatedly allowed many folks in the tech sector off the hook, all to protect their access, which basically means everyone in tech media out here in the West, and taken loads of their reported figures at face value. This has been a long time coming. Microsoft has been playing 3-card monty with their reported figures for decades, not even just with Xbox.


On the one hand, Microsoft is notorious in digital media for employing some of the biggest astroturfing groups out there. Not unique to them btw, but MS definitely uses it more pervasively than some of the other tech giants. Which is why I seldom engage folks who are going to bat for a company to this degree.

I have also told fans on here in the past - Game Pass is an absolute steal and consumers should be abusing Microsoft's generosity, and I say that having believed for a long time that Game Pass has been long term harming developers who are releasing into the Xbox ecosystem, and the studios who have been working under Microsoft. Still, its up to consumers to take advantage of whatever deals they can. Given how much higher the cost of core-gaming is nowadays, Game Pass on both PC and Console should be in the 80m-100m user range, and Xbox should be a bonafide marketplace leader. It really takes such a tremendously weak leadership team to not be able to capitalize on basically giving away money to grow a userbase.

To your point, you're absolutely spot-on - if there are folks who are genuinely fans of Xbox and hate how things are going, do know that your blind support for them in the face of their missteps have insulated them from entering a position that would have them even consider the changes that they need to make in order get Xbox back to a place where folks love, which judging by talking with any one I know who still loves Xbox, all seem to be the first half of the 360 lifecycle.

I was a bonafide Xbox fanboy during the original Xbox years. The PS3 having a bluray drive and MS trying to back HD-DVD to force people into digital downloads really soured me on supporting MS ever again.

Still I had a 360 and put many hours of gaming into it. I got my 360 in November of 2006 a full year after it came out. I had a blast with Gears of War. 2007 was easily the best year for Xbox in terms of exclusives.

They had people like Peter Moore, J. Allard, and Shane Kim, people who knew gaming.

Right now, I passionately hate Microsoft for their culture more than ever. it will be a truly great day when I can shed every MS product I own.

However....and this is hilarious....if somehow MS rights the ship and can make a Windows that runs gaming exclusively without all the bloat, that would make me VERY happy and something I would praise them to the moon for. That is their ONE move that can make me happy. I will, of course, continue to buy good games like Indiana Jones and Doom Dark Ages if they release them. But I wont buy mediocre shit like Avowed.

I so badly want SteamOS/Bazzite/Linux to take off, but it still needs a few things to happen before that has a chance:
1. Get nvidia on board to improve their drivers. Right now...it's especially bad on DX12 titles, which is why I wish all developers would move to Vulkan....the performance is for nvidia GPU is basically a tier below what it is on Windows (ala 5070 performance with a 5070 Ti)...there are some encouraging signs that nvidia is waking up to this and their drivers have massively improved in the last year. Its still got a ways to go.
2. AMD needs to solve their Linux HDMI 2.1 issues. This is mostly on the HDMI Forum being tyrants and it doesnt really matter if you ise DisplayPort, but if you're someone who hooks up their SteamOS system to their TV, not being able to take advantage of 4K/144 w/ 10-bit HDR 444RGB is a big deal.

 

[mayham2199]

Because you're posting in a Chris Dring thread which is now outdated because of a new Chris Dring thread?

Which was also confirmed by another source S SneakersSO . Also he still confirmed first party dev costs aren't included.

 

[Mr Moose]

Because you're posting in a Chris Dring thread which is now outdated because of a new Chris Dring thread?

It's not outdated, he's saying the same shit still with more fluff.
They don't deduct anything from Game Pass with first party titles, if they did it would not be profitable.

 

[adamsapple]

Which was also confirmed by another source S SneakersSO . Also he still confirmed first party dev costs aren't included.

Yes, why would first party costs need to be counted only under GP? He already clarified the reason why.

So yes, dev costs/spend does not come under Game Pass P&L. Because obviously dev costs can also be recouped via microtransactions, premium sales, DLC etc...

Will anyone put, let's say Gears Reloaded's development cost entirely under GP, even though that game is available for premium sale as well? I'd say no. You are free to disagree.

 

[Mr Moose]

Yes, why would first party costs need to be counted only under GP? He already clarified the reason why.



Will anyone put, let's say Gears Reloaded's development cost entirely under GP, even though that game is available for premium sale as well? I'd say no. You are free to disagree.

Loss of sale. It's not rocket science.