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[LaserBuddha]

If you want to share music and etc, and ignore posts at your whim, it's your prerogative.
Jeez it's like some of you have never used the internet before.

So what you're saying, junior, is that it's impossible to derail a thread, or hell, do anything wrong or inappropriate on GAF, since we can all just ignore posts?

Please test that theory throughout the forum for us, I'm eagerly awaiting the result.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

This thread derailed faster than I though... I had something else in mind.

=(

Yep.

Christian GAF can't have anything nice.

 

[Meadows]

Anglican who is:

- Pro choice
- Pro gay rights
- Very liberal
- A believer that the bible is an interpretation of God's word, but not his actual word (the old testament isn't for me)
- A believer that all people should be brought up to make their own decisions, not have them forced at educational level
- A believer that the state and church should be kept separate

So basically as liberal as the next person, but I believe there is an after-life and that God loves and protects me.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

This thread derailed faster than I though... I had something else in mind.

=(

It's only one poster and a really young thread.

These threads can produce some really interesting discussions .

 

[tafer]

I agree. Is this type of trolling allowed in the Islam thread?

Hehehe... your a funny dude. (girl?)

If you want to share music and etc, and ignore posts at your whim, it's your prerogative.
Jeez it's like some of you have never used the internet before.

I think this is a tune.

Sounds as appealing as dancing on a mine field.

 

[KJTB]

God created the original, perfect Adam in his image. Adam fucked himself up. Then we came after. We are the products of Adam.

Adam and Eve were created without knowledge of good and evil. God tells Adam and Eve to not eat the fruit of... knowledge of good and evil. Meanwhile, he creates a snake to entice adam and eve, who have no sense of right and wrong, to eat said fruit. Adam and Eve, lacking a moral sense of good and evil, eat from the tree unaware that what they are doing is wrong. Surely God would know that they would eat from the tree because, well, he's all knowing.

Seems a little cruel...

 

[DanteFox]

Anyway, I've spoken my mind and I'll bail out of the thread before it gets even more off topic. Peace out guys. Even though I think you're all wrong, I still love you (but not like, in a gay way).

Nice copout. "I've expressed an opinion that no one asked for, and instead of debating my position out, I'll just leave since I've already made up my mind."

You can't have it both ways, if you're going to derail the thread, might as well follow through.

 

[Agent Ironside]

God created the original, perfect Adam in his image. Adam fucked himself up. Then we came after. We are the products of Adam.

I don't see why this concept is so hard to grasp. Think of it as a product. God created a perfect device. He then let the device have free will and the ability to replicate itself. The device fucked up, and the imperfect result was replicated, not the perfect prototype.

As far as homosexuality goes, do you have a problem with probably 99% of day-to-day heterosexual activity being a sin too? Because that's what it is.

Look, if I think about fucking the cute waitress bending over that table--guess what? I've committed just as much of a sin as you in blowing a dude, or taking it in the ass. That's just how it is. We're all sinners, and we all sin all the time. We sin in thoughts, words, and deeds. It's not like homosexuals have a monopoly on sexual sin.

So, if you are a homosexual, that's tough. But I don't see it any different as being a man who's basically hard-wired to want to fuck as many hot women as he can. That's tough too. God doesn't see it any differently. It's just a different river to cross, and I'm not going to tell you what to do. You have to make your own choices what you want to do with your sexuality, just like I have to with mine.

The good news is, the salvation from homosexual sin is exactly the same as the salvation from hetero sin. It's salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, who suffered and died for everybody--gay, straight, whatever.

I completely agree with this. Although, some sins have different consequences from each other as we live on earth, some bigger than others etc. Which leads me to a small little kind of random rant I have, when people think that God made these moral laws/rules simply to be the fun police, when in fact, its simply to protect us.

 

[racooon]

I completely agree with this. Although, some sins have different consequences from each other as we live on earth, some bigger than others etc. Which leads me to a small little kind of random rant I have, when people think that God made these moral laws/rules simply to be the fun police, when in fact, its simply to protect us.

I think society benefits from homosexuality.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Nice copout. "I've expressed an opinion that no one asked for, and instead of debating my position out, I'll just leave since I've already made up my mind."

You can't have it both ways, if you're going to derail the thread, might as well follow through.

If someone wants to create a new thread or continue in PMs I'm happy to debate until the cows come home, but I feel kind of bad for starting it up because I didn't really intend for that to happen when I first came into the thread.

Not going to discuss the issue any further here.

 

[Agent Ironside]

I think society benefits from homosexuality.

How so?

 

[zankara]

God created the original, perfect Adam in his image. Adam fucked himself up. Then we came after. We are the products of Adam.

I don't see why this concept is so hard to grasp. Think of it as a product. God created a perfect device. He then let the device have free will and the ability to replicate itself. The device fucked up, and the imperfect result was replicated, not the perfect prototype.

As far as homosexuality goes, do you have a problem with probably 99% of day-to-day heterosexual activity being a sin too? Because that's what it is.

Look, if I think about fucking the cute waitress bending over that table--guess what? I've committed just as much of a sin as you in blowing a dude, or taking it in the ass. That's just how it is. We're all sinners, and we all sin all the time. We sin in thoughts, words, and deeds. It's not like homosexuals have a monopoly on sexual sin.

So, if you are a homosexual, that's tough. But I don't see it any different as being a man who's basically hard-wired to want to fuck as many hot women as he can. That's tough too. God doesn't see it any differently. It's just a different river to cross, and I'm not going to tell you what to do. You have to make your own choices what you want to do with your sexuality, just like I have to with mine.

The good news is, the salvation from homosexual sin is exactly the same as the salvation from hetero sin. It's salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, who suffered and died for everybody--gay, straight, whatever.

At least if you're a straight dude you have the option of getting married and being in a sexual relationship which is sanctioned by God. Whereas, what choice does a gay person have? I think this is what makes it so tough for Christians who are attracted to the same sex.

Edit: Anyway, I am finding myself less inclined to go to church lately. I think the fact that I find being around lots of people uncomfortable has a lot to do with it.

 

[kevm3]

hello.

 

[racooon]

Having people who are able to work (and adopt) without being burdened with children of their own is benificial.
It's a oft-thrown around fallacy that 'Gays are broken because they can't reproduce'. As social animals, not having a desire to reproduce is actually benificial in a lot of instances. Less strain on resources, no need to take time to look after children (unless they're caring for kids that aren't their own) and etc.

 

[WillyFive]

Not at all. There are a lot of compelling arguments supporting the view that the 'historicity of Jesus' is inserted centuries after he lived.
For example, Tacitus, is a source oft nodded to by Christians as proof. Tacitus is never referred to by later Christian scholars as a source (unusual, don't you think?), and our earliest copy of Tacitus was produced by....
A Christian scribe in the 12th century CE (iirc).....
Oh you did refer to Tacitus. Oh well.
Another note on Pliny (I'm doing my degree on the Classical world so this is my area of expertise, somewhat) he never refers to Jesus at all. He refers to how he had a load of people who reportedly 'worshipped Christ' tortured and whatnot. That doesn't prove the historicity of Jesus.

Suetonius is notorious for being pretty woeful at accuracy. The practice of history at this era is frustratingly difficult. :<

Like I said, it's all "What if's?".

What if Tacitus' account was faked? What if it wasn't? Can Pliny be used to prove Jesus? Can it not? Can The Talmud be used as evidence? Why should it? When Lucian mocked the Christians for worshiping a man that was hanged at a stake, did he believe in the man? What if he didn't? Can Celsus's claims when he called Jesus just a magician who performed 'miracles' but was just some 'mere man', can be trusted seeing as it's only living record is from a rebuttal made by a Christian? We can't test any of these things anymore, which is why I call it a weak argument because it literally ends with your personal preference. You can't be called wrong either way, since there isn't an answer.

Please reference that, I don't believe it.

Does this count? The other source would be in his book The God Delusion, on page 97. Of course, he was talking about how he didn't believe he performed miracles and how there's no such thing as God, but he holds Jesus as "probably real".

hello.

yo

 

[Pristine_Condition]

At least if you're a straight dude you have the option of getting married and being in a sexual relationship which is sanctioned by God. Whereas, what choice does a gay person have? I think this is what makes it so tough for Christians who are attracted to the same sex.

It's far from as easy as that. You make it sound like if you are straight, you can just pull a lever and get married. A not-so-insignificant percentage of heterosexuals die single. Probably as many as there are homosexuals. And a lot of those hetero singles would certainly like to find someone.

I've never really had that "option" you are talking about. I've had a lot of fuck buddies. I've shacked up with a few girls, came close twice, but have never been married, and after the last one ended so badly, (I found out she was a genuine sociopath...scary, scary stuff) I don't know if I ever will.

Yep. Life is fucking hard.

 

[Chaplain]

God saved me in 1999. He changed my life by transforming my character to be more like his Son. I went from being addicted to porn, drugs, theft, slander, manipulation and hate, to a man filled with love, compassion and mercy. I have no desire to do any of the things I was addicted to any more. I didn't have to do 12 steps or do good works. God changed me by His Grace. God's love is so amazing that it would be unloving not to share with him with the people he places in my life.

Here are some songs I think Christians will enjoy:

Brandon Heath - Love Never Fails

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nQy-aP_Koo

Mercy Me - Beautiful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hth7GzAoXos

Chris August - Starry Night

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee1-qHCmDUQ

Sanctus Real - Lead Me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLr6G8Xy5uc

Chris Tomlin - Indescribable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuihT9wRc34

Casting Crowns - Praise You In This Storm (live)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ype1xE0wzsg

Matthew West - My Own Little World

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Yasgzjc0w

Third Day, Steven Curtis Chapman & Mercy Me - I See Love

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0pfEoZPh7Q

Chris Tomlin - Our God is Greater

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlA5IDnpGhc

 

[Agent Ironside]

Having people who are able to work (and adopt) without being burdened with children of their own is benificial.
It's a oft-thrown around fallacy that 'Gays are broken because they can't reproduce'. As social animals, not having a desire to reproduce is actually benificial in a lot of instances. Less strain on resources, no need to take time to look after children (unless they're caring for kids that aren't their own) and etc.

I can see where you are coming from, but it really depends on the situation within the male/female relationship, like finances etc, to whether or not its a burden, and we can all control that situation in most instances, simply by the life choices we make.

 

[racooon]

Like I said, it's all "What if's?".

I've never written that. For some reason you don't like Occam's Razor, which is a mystery to me. The evidence, in my view, points towards the likelihood of post-Roman doctoring.

We can't test any of these things anymore, which is why I call it a weak argument because it literally ends with your personal preference. You can't be called wrong either way, since there isn't an answer.

Do you believe in the celestial teapot?
Or better yet, his noodly greatness?

Does this count? The other source would be in his book The God Delusion, on page 97. Of course, he was talking about how he didn't believe he performed miracles and how there's no such thing as God, but he holds Jesus as "probably real".

I don't think so. It's not an exposition concerning the historicity of Jesus, I think he's talking purely hypothetically in that article.
I'd like to see Dawkins write an article about the historicity of Jesus, though.

I can see where you are coming from, but it really depends on the situation within the male/female relationship, like finances etc, to whether or not its a burden, and we can all control that situation in most instances, simply by the life choices we make.

I can't think of any situation when being gay is a disadvantage. Aside from being discriminated, of course, but thankfully we're past that (where I live anyway).

 

[Fernando Rocker]

racoon

No offence... but maybe you would feel more comfortable at the Religion Thread.

 

[legend166]

Reformed protestant Calvinist, checking in.

Instead of the usual Atheist VS Christian fight, we should have a good old fashioned Protestant VS Catholic throw down.

Why do Catholics place so much importance and value to a clearly corrupt, immoral, and at times throughout history, evil organisation?

Genuine question.

 

[The Technomancer]

This thread derailed faster than I though... I had something else in mind.

=(

Dude, by GAF standards this thread is a smashing success. Hopefully some people can get it out of their system relatively quickly.

 

[Agent Ironside]

I can't think of any situation when being gay is a disadvantage. Aside from being discriminated, of course, but thankfully we're past that (where I live anyway).

I believe there most definitely is, while on the subject, raising a child for instance, the child needs the male/female influences in their life, no matter how gay someone is, they cannot have that motherly/female influence the child needs to be brought up correctly.

 

[racooon]

I do agree to an extent, but that point ^ is very important imo.

 

[AceBandage]

Reformed protestant Calvinist, checking in.

Instead of the usual Atheist VS Christian fight, we should have a good old fashioned Protestant VS Catholic throw down.

Why do Catholics place so much importance and value to a clearly corrupt, immoral, and at times throughout history, evil organisation?

Genuine question.

Ugh, please, no.
That's WORSE than Atheists vs Christians.

"We're both Christians, but we hate eachother because of semantics!"
Horrible.

 

[KtSlime]

Reformed protestant Calvinist, checking in.

Instead of the usual Atheist VS Christian fight, we should have a good old fashioned Protestant VS Catholic throw down.

Why do Catholics place so much importance and value to a clearly corrupt, immoral, and at times throughout history, evil organisation?

Genuine question.

Cause Jesus said 'build a church on my peter', and Peter said Catholics were cool.

Do you think Jesus was wrong?

 

[Chaplain]

Reformed protestant Calvinist, checking in.

Instead of the usual Atheist VS Christian fight, we should have a good old fashioned Protestant VS Catholic throw down.

Why do Catholics place so much importance and value to a clearly corrupt, immoral, and at times throughout history, evil organisation?

Genuine question.

Because believers still live in sinful bodies that are not immune to the lies of men when believers decide not not live by God's Word alone.

 

[racooon]

But the bodies of pre-fall Adam and Eve were also susceptible to lies.
:s

 

[CrazedArabMan]

This thread derailed faster than I though... I had something else in mind.

=(

So far it isn't as bad as I feared, do appreciate the try though, I thought we had one a while ago that pretty much derailed from the 3rd post, so far though it is a success.

 

[Chaplain]

But the bodies of pre-fall Adam and Eve were also susceptible to lies.
:s

Man kind has always had a choice. Just like you have made up your mind about Jesus. Adam and Eve mad the same choice when they decided to take Satan's words over God's.

 

[Red]

Cause Jesus said 'build a church on my peter', and Peter said Catholics were cool.

Do you think Jesus was wrong?

I'm not sure you're being serious here... leaning towards believing this is sarcasm, but nonetheless: Jesus in the Bible seems to be mostly against organized religion, and Catholics weren't close to being around during Biblical times.

I'm not a Christian but I place a lot of importance on Christian values, if that makes sense. I think religion's a very interesting topic for discussion, and that there's much to take away from all faiths, but personally I don't subscribe to any single one. I might be wrong about Jesus being anti-religion, following that. But I've read the Bible, and he seems like a pretty free thinking dude in there, trying to establish an equality between creeds instead of pushing for any single one. Actually, I've always considered Biblical Jesus as a philosopher-type, not a god-type, sort of like Siddhartha Gautama.

 

[Plasmid]

Haven't gone to church in years, i plan to do confession pretty soon.

Ate steak today, ehh.

 

[KtSlime]

Man kind has always had a choice. Just like you have made up your mind about Jesus. Adam and Eve mad the same choice when they decided to take Satan's words over God's.

But dude, how did they not know Satan was bad… Oh yeah, God was such a great father for not teaching them the difference between good and evil, they had to learn that from eating a fig.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I can see where you are coming from, but it really depends on the situation within the male/female relationship, like finances etc, to whether or not its a burden, and we can all control that situation in most instances, simply by the life choices we make.

I'd add the point to his, that a committed relationship between two persons that doesn't involve reproduction by its nature frees up both the potential energy and the psychological burdens of those involved to fully invest themselves in positive contributions and activities outside child rearing.

Devoted and romantically attached couples can be powerful multiplying forces. Plus, arguments against such couples based on the having children bit do kind of fall on the rocks of being compared to heterosexual couples who have decided not to have children voluntarily. "But, they COULD have children still... if they wanted... really..." becomes a pretty weak counterpoint when it's clear that, simply put, plenty of such hetero couples do not, and never will. It's a moot point.

Same gender relations have been so suppressed in many societies, that it's easy to build a straw rational that they accomplish nothing, even if one is not trying intentionally to devalue them and make a straw man. We've had little chance to see how they contribute, making it easier to dismiss them with appeals to either tradition for its own sake, or variations of the naturalistic fallacy.*


*naturalistic fallacy: blindly applying "law of nature" to human affairs, since humans are sapient animals capable of modifying their behavior outside of instinct with personal reflection and self awareness. I.e. you will find arguments against homosexuality because it "isn't in nature", which even though it is an incomplete observation - same gender pair bonding happens in nature, among plenty of animals for a variety of reasons - doesn't even matter since human beings are complex and can make their own decisions.

Anyway, sorry, wrong thread.

 

[legend166]

Ugh, please, no.
That's WORSE than Atheists vs Christians.

"We're both Christians, but we hate eachother because of semantics!"
Horrible.

I certainly don't think it's semantics.

 

[AceBandage]

But dude, how did they not know Satan was bad… Oh yeah, God was such a great father for not teaching them the difference between good and evil, they had to learn that from eating a fig.

Pomegranate, actually.

 

[racooon]

Man kind has always had a choice. Just like you have made up your mind about Jesus. Adam and Eve mad the same choice when they decided to take Satan's words over God's.

Aye but my point stands. What is the difference between pre-fall and post-fall human?

 

[Chaplain]

But dude, how did they not know Satan was bad… Oh yeah, God was such a great father for not teaching them the difference between good and evil, they had to learn that from eating a fig.

They had God's Word. He created them and walked with Adam and Eve every day in the Garden. He said not to do it and they decided to do the opposite (freewill).

God still asks the same thing of us. Do we take him at His Word (faith) about what is true and what is not or will we believe Satan's lie that there is not right or wrong, truth or lies?

 

[KtSlime]

I'm not sure you're being serious here... leaning towards believing this is sarcasm, but nonetheless: Jesus in the Bible seems to be mostly against organized religion, and Catholics weren't close to being around during Biblical times.

I was using, a very liberal translation…

But seriously, Jesus said that Peter was to organize and form the religion, and Catholicism is what it eventually became. I think that is the rational behind many that continue to practice that form of belief.

 

[racooon]

I thought Adam didn't know what he was eating?

 

[AceBandage]

Aye but my point stands. What is the difference between pre-fall and post-fall human?

And with the eating of the fruit of knowledge, man has become as God.
The ability to create and destroy became ours, for both wonderful and horrible things.

 

[Chaplain]

I thought Adam didn't know what he was eating?

Are you implying that when Eve handed Adam the fruit Adam didn't know what food was?

 

[Red]

I was using, a very liberal translation…

But seriously, Jesus said that Peter was to organize and form the religion, and Catholicism is what it eventually became. I think that is the rational behind many that continue to practice that form of belief.

But that's not true. Catholicism is a type of Christianity, but not all Christians have historically been Catholics.

 

[KtSlime]

They had God's Word. He created them and walked with Adam and Eve every day in the Garden. He said not to do it and they decided to do the opposite (freewill).

God still asks the same thing of us. Do we take him at His Word (faith) about what is true and what is not or will we believe Satan's lie that there is not right or wrong, truth or lies?

He also said to go forth and populate the Earth, but the impression I get from reading Genesis is that they were innocent, and would have not been baby making until after they learned about good and evil.

AceBandage: Cool, didn't know that they latest theory switched it to a pomegranate; I just knew it wasn't an apple.

Edit: Thinking about it it makes sense, pomegranate is a pretty sexy fruit.

 

[Chaplain]

He also said to go forth and populate the Earth, but the impression I get from reading Genesis is that they were innocent, and would have not been baby making until after they learned about good and evil.

They were innocent.

Scriptures are silent about your last statement. We don't have any text telling us what could have been. It would be wrong of me to conjure up what could have been.

 

[KtSlime]

They were innocent.

Scriptures are silent about your last statement. We don't have any text telling us what could have been. It would be wrong of me to conjure up what could have been.

If you ask me, they look set up. Who do you blame if a baby gets into the aspirin? The baby who knows no better, or the adult that didn't put it back in the cupboard?

 

[AceBandage]

I think that the general belief is that Adam and Eve were to be his chosen people, but not his only human creations. They would populate the Garden, as it were, while the others would populate the rest of the world. Symbolism is a funny thing.
Dunno, though.

 

[Chaplain]

If you ask me, they look set up. Who do you blame if a baby gets into the aspirin? The baby who knows no better, or the adult that didn't put it back in the cupboard?

They were not babies. They were intelligent adult beings who talked with God everyday. Adam was so smart that he named all of the animals. I can't even do that right now. lol

 

[KtSlime]

I think that the general belief is that Adam and Eve were to be his chosen people, but not his only human creations. They would populate the Garden, as it were, while the others would populate the rest of the world. Symbolism is a funny thing.
Dunno, though.

That's the only way I can interpret it, otherwise why would Cain worry so much about getting murdered after being banished?

They were not babies. They were intelligent adult beings who talked with God everyday. Adam was so smart that he named all of the animals. I can't even do that right now. lol

And with that I'm leaving… The literal interpretation of Genesis is preposterous, how people can not understand such a simple and fundamental thing as the theory of evolution is nothing short of a miracle. I guess God does exist.

 

[AceBandage]

They were not babies. They were intelligent adult beings who talked with God everyday. Adam was so smart that he named all of the animals. I can't even do that right now. lol

Easy. You name them all Bob.