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Civilization V Brave New World |OT| More than Content Tourism
- Thread starter Fragamemnon
- Start date
Science or domination probably.
Any of them. Wide empires are pretty flexible.
Psychoward
Banned
So am I doing themeing wrong or does the Sistine Chapel not have any bonus? I put two medieval paintings in it and it still says +0.
hypersheep
Member
Are they both from the same civilization?
Doing it wrong.
You can hover the mouse over the +0 to say what are the conditions for the bonus. Each building is different.
Sistine Chapel, if I'm not mistaken, require two artwork from the same era and from the same civ.
I found a list somehwere on civfanatics that I'm not finding again, but I guess you are better off getting used to look up the appropriate in-game tooltip.
Actually, they said this would be the case with great art stuff, but is isn't.
It would be sweet to actually see the artwork you just swapped as well as the one that comes with the partenon.
Do you have a big army, many roads, or a lot of cities? Most your gold output gets gobbled up by that. Maintenance is a bitch.
Build for it. Markets, mints and caravans. Caravans especially may get you +5 each if you're lucky. Build caravansaries too. Don't be afraid to delete units that are either old or you have just lying around. If you have excess luxury goods, shop them around. Strategic goods I tend to hoard though. Don't expand too much. Maintenance costs sneak up on you.
Psychoward
Banned
Nope, that explains it.
Thanks, I thought I had to mouse over it in the buildings list.Doing it wrong.
You can hover the mouse over the +0 to say what are the conditions for the bonus. Each building is different.
Sistine Chapel, if I'm not mistaken, require two artwork from the same era and from the same civ.
I found a list somehwere on civfanatics that I'm not finding again, but I guess you are better off getting used to look up the appropriate in-game tooltip.
Actually, they said this would be the case with great art stuff, but is isn't.
It would be sweet to actually see the artwork you just swapped as well as the one that comes with the partenon.
Quit my game as Venice at prince difficulty. I was going for cultural victory and keeping myself to myself. Had to take Rome off of Caesar at one point cos he kept attacking me. Not sure if I would have got the necessary tourism to win anyway (had +50 at 1900), but Caesar killed the French and left Spain with one city. I had a bit of an army when he came back for Rome and was well positioned so he was suiciding units over a river but then he started making Great War Infantry which I was ages away from so I knew I was dead. Not really sure how to best approach the tourism victory, staying on 1 city seemed to leave me irrelevant to the expansionists.
Started a new game on king as England. Randomed the world type and got the islands one which is lucky I guess. Got 3 cities on my starting land up and now thinking about where to expand, not that many land places available still so might have to wait for Ships of the Line where I can dominate the seas and start conquering.
Started a new game on king as England. Randomed the world type and got the islands one which is lucky I guess. Got 3 cities on my starting land up and now thinking about where to expand, not that many land places available still so might have to wait for Ships of the Line where I can dominate the seas and start conquering.
Fragamemnon
Member
If you had that little tourism-did you invest in social policies in the aesthetics tree and/or pick Freedom as your ideology? In my last game as England when I went whole hog culture I was pushing nearly 450 tourism/turn after policies and The Internet.
Three city Tradition start, build national college and head straight for Education. Build universities everywhere while teching Compass. Build six galleasses while teching to Astronomy, time the completion of Oxford in capital for one turn after Astronomy finishes. or use you first great scientist if you don't have the hammers for both the galeasses and Oxford. Update all galleasses to Ships of the Line, eat your two immediate and completely helpless neighbors.
Note: Iron availability is a big deal for this build. Trade for it or get it from a CS if you don't have it. Don't be afraid to take loans from your friends to pay for the upgrading of units.
Want to finish with a cultural win even though I could take it science if I had to. Have 1 civ left to dominate culturally but it's slow going, even with my 550-ish tourism thanks to Internet. Thinking I'll just have to crush their biggest cultural city so they stop producing so much of it :/
Fragamemnon
Member
Concert tours at that point close the gap real quick.Faith bought musicians really help here.
Fun stuff in BNW: Siam can go Jesuit Education and buy Universities with Faith while at the same time builing Wats. Results in 4 science jungle tiles and double 33%/50% (with rationalism) science bonuses that stack. It's a bug but go wild if you are looking for a neat science victory.
Siam was already a extremely good techer in games due to huge capital growth w/ Maritime CS so a tradition opener into megascience city is pretty straightfoward.
.....My lord. The game....it's breaking! I'm off to play Siam now :s
Totally. They just got really expensive (2500 faith) and my faith output is pretty much crap. Next time I go for culture I'm going to mix in more religion work early on.
Fragamemnon
Member
I find that religious CS give very good yields over time and are worth cultivating throughout the industrial era onward for faith farming. Honestly it's much more efficient that most other faith sources are for culture victory save Cathedrals (which are very useful in Culture games due to the extra slot).
Fragamemnon
Member
I played an Immortal culture game where going after a lot of museum slots wasn't going to happen, Oda was on the same continent as I and Shaka fed him hard, so the entire archeology period was me gutting him via artillery.
Didn't get Louve or Uffizi either that game. Didn't matter because I went so beastly on tech that I got Internet super ahead of the curve and had the social policies and getting International Games voted in right after hitting Internet is a killer. It's not hard to win when you have monster cities with power plants and nothing else to build.
Granted I could have won that game just about as easily with tech than I could culture.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
lol. I wonder if the free wats with legalism trick still works too.
Fragamemnon
Member
I assume it does and might actually work well given that you have to go down the piety line for your reformation belief for anyway.
I like these guys on Three Moves Ahead but they need Immortal / Deity players on the cast to talk about the game. We don't jerk around hitting next turn for tens of turns to win games. We close out our wins fast.
still haven't win any game BNW. in G&K france was my choice and cultural victory was easy get. but in this new game how many civ you need to influence to win a game for cultural victory?
how do you place great write, music, art in a specific building?
my new favorite is shoshone. i love the extra tiles you get from settling.
how do you place great write, music, art in a specific building?
my new favorite is shoshone. i love the extra tiles you get from settling.
Human_Shield
Member
To win a cultural victory in BNW, you need to reach a status of Influencial with all other civilizations. Great works are automatically placed in the first available slot in your city. To move them around, simply click on them on the Your Culture tab, and move them to an appropriate open slot.
Psychoward
Banned
So can you extract an artifact even if the tile isn't in your territory?
jaundicejuice
Member
You can send Archeologists to any dig site in the world but the artifact will go to the nearest city. If it's not yours, it could be a competing Civ or even a City-State.
Fragamemnon
Member
Yes. Note that there is a diplo penalty for doing so if you jack another guy's ruins.
Ideally, what you want is to make ruins in your own territory into landmarks (way more tourism later on, and large amount of culture up front), and use ruins from unclaimed or foreign lands to store in your museums. Note that you can plop miltary units on top of your own ruins to keep opposing civs from jacking your artifacts out from under you (or you can close borders).
OP updated with new Civ ratings. My BNW tier list:
top:
Poland
Shoshone
Venice
Mid:
Zulu (though super gross at the hands of the AI w/ its turn 60-65 civil service)
Portugal
Assyria (hard to classical war effectively due to AI getting pikes too fast)
Bottom:
Indeonesia
Brazil
Morocco
The longstanding issue with Immortal/Deity AIs being given too much free techs and growth early on is frustrating me. They always slingshot into Civil Service and pikes making classical warfare extremely difficult to pull off. The time to Civil Service by the AI is honestly *faster* than before and the player is hobbled in comparison with the BNW changes. They should move pikes to somewhere between IW and Steel (Metal Casting would be fine) and off the economic track that the AI beelines so they can get education.
Do you happen to have these ratings for the vanilla and G&K civs?
Psychoward
Banned
Ah, I've been using them as artifacts this entire time :/
Fragamemnon
Member
No-I can go back and add them in post BNW. Anyone else interested? It takes some time to do the write ups for each Civ, but what matters and what doesn't has changed dramatically with BNW and affected how the existing Civs play out.
edit:
For example, pre BNW Darius was one of the best Civs around, but you really had to run him tall and the way you valued tiles and happiness was different than other Civs due to the way you executed golden ages with him. That completely changes with BNW-you can go as wide as you want provided that you have the happiness for it, the artists guild is probably the most important building in your empire, you can now run science specialists and get Great Scientists without it impacting your artist creation, and rivers are no longer so valuable (golden ages no longer +gold to river farms) but trading posts are even more valuable. It shuffles the way you play entirely.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
I would be interested. Also, teach me how to paly X3 D:
CoconutTank
Member
Wow all that fire is so pretty :O
This is what happens when you talk shit about me for 1000 years. I didn't want to do it. I WAS A PEACEFUL MAN.
Fragamemnon
Member
This is what happens when you talk shit about me for 1000 years. I didn't want to do it. I WAS A PEACEFUL MAN.
Nuclear weapons are just so effective at conducting domination wins. There is no reason not to glass an entire continent if it saves me as much turns as nukes generally do.
Less people = less unhapiness in my puppets.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Fragamemnon
Member
"I got all the votes because everyone else is dead!"
(other wincons tend to happen from time to time during domination victories due to the way that you make the whole world burn)
Enthusiastic "Yes Please!"
Fragamemnon
Member
Fine I'll do the rest of the civs tonight, starting w/ vanilla , focusing on the changes that they face in BNW. Will add it to the OP as a new section.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I feel like with an Immortal or Deity game, if trying to do the Siam trick thing, you might need to make sure that Ethiopia or the Celts aren't in the game, otherwise they'll probably snatch up Jesuit Education before you do. I've never had a chance to try it out yet on Immortal or Deity since someone else always snags it first.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
This is what happens when you talk shit about me for 1000 years. I didn't want to do it. I WAS A PEACEFUL MAN.
Finally started to play Civ again. My god, the game is so bloody addicting. I am playing on the chieftain setting, since it has been years.
I am aiming for a cultural victory, but Egypt didn't like it. Now, I am at war with them and Assyria. I am making Egypt pay for their deeds first.
I am aiming for a cultural victory, but Egypt didn't like it. Now, I am at war with them and Assyria. I am making Egypt pay for their deeds first.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
It was hilarious to me. Here I am, pretty new to Civ V trying to get together with the new mechanincs of Civ V and the 2 xpacs. I was playing on Emperor and playing Venice, who is pretty unique. I am just sitting there, minding my own business and making money. Then, around 800AD, Assyria starts contancting me every few turns just to talk shit. I am like, c'mon son. The continent we are on is SUPER crowded.
I don't remember how many city states but ther were 7 civs on there to start including me. War has been waging for many generations of men between everyone. I am the sole peaceful person there, and I was basically in the middle with my one city. So, I start to make friends with everyone slowly except him. He still wants to be a god damn idiot. Eventually, I saw the diplomatic victory closing in (even though it was hard fought against Greece) and was like fuck this guy. I took about 3/5ths of his land and nuked the rest.
I don't remember how many city states but ther were 7 civs on there to start including me. War has been waging for many generations of men between everyone. I am the sole peaceful person there, and I was basically in the middle with my one city. So, I start to make friends with everyone slowly except him. He still wants to be a god damn idiot. Eventually, I saw the diplomatic victory closing in (even though it was hard fought against Greece) and was like fuck this guy. I took about 3/5ths of his land and nuked the rest.
Fragamemnon
Member
Have to start this outside of the OP due to character length. Will just smatter these throughout the thread as I get them written up.
- Work In Progress
Washington - America
UA : Manifest Destiny ( All Land units have +1 sight. 50% discount when buying tiles)
UU : Minuteman (Musket replacement, comes with Drill I and moves freely through terrain at 1 movement cost)
UU : B-17 (comes with Evasion and Siege I and 5 extra combat power right off bat)
America is the very definition of a middling original Civilization. At first glance you might dismiss America as a worse Shoshone, that's not the case. Washington's UA allows the early warrior to get ruins pretty effectively, and lets scouts really bust the fog and find city states first for cash as well as finding ruins and good places for cities. Once you found your cities, you can then buy the hills that the city border expansion avoids for cheap or aggressively buy out a set of tiles to get a luxury three tiles away or to just get a couple of fish and rush buy a lighthouse for lightning fast growth. The lump sum trading changes in BNW hit America pretty hard, but his playstyle is relatively unchanged.
Minutemen are actually terrific units for siege in the early Renassiance era as they are very durable and can easily be retreated and replaced through any terrain due to their movement bonuses. It seems like a small benefit but I have had tremendous success with them on both Immortal and Deity as a backbone unit alongside ranged and some siege to soak damage from defenders and not lose units (the goal of any war in Civ 5).
B-17s come out of the gate with Siege I, so you can go Siege 2 and right to the extremely powerful air repair with just a couple of experience buildings. Generally if I am massing bombers I am going to have Autocracy and have discount to the rush buys, so you can just rush by air repair bombers and that is the best way to clean out 1000+ hammers per turn worth of units that the AI can mass at you at the endgame (well, before nukes, but still). It's not a bad unit but like the minuteman isn't gamebreaking.
2/5 Stars
Arabia
UA: Ships of the Desert : Caravans gain 50% extended range. Your trade routes spread the home city's religion twice as effectively. oil Oil resources are doubled.
UB: Bazaar (gain an extra copy of any luxury worked by this city. +2 gold and 25% gold in this city. Replaces Market)
UA: Camel Archers (Ranged mounted unit, 4 movement speed, 21 ranged damage, can move after combat. Replaces Knight)
Special Note : Desert start bias
One of the best all around Civs, and in BNW Harun's Arabia is still extremely powerful. Extended range Caravans let you get foreign trade routes early for more cash, but most importantly it dose so by letting you centralize your caravans all out of the same city, which is extremely helpful for the purposes of city specialization (only need one bank in the capital) and works well with the Commerce opener. The religious spread is a minor thing and will not have very large impact without additional effort to spread the religion around. Arabia's desert bias makes for an easy religion with the Desert Folklore pantheon, and it is suggested that you pair that with Tithe , one of Mosques/Pagodas, and with Guruship (if going wide) or Religious Community (if going tall) for the extra overall output to make your cities more productive.
The Bazaar is just as crazy awesome as ever, providing the ability to turn any luxury into more money-it effectively turns luxury tiles into producing 6-8 extra GPT if you can trade the surplus on top of giving the city 25% more gold and providing and extra base 1 gold over a standard market. Camel Archers are also still almost a guaranteed kill of a neighbour if you prepare the timing push for them correctly-you will build chariot archers, not archers, and then go to Education, doubling back to Chivalry (or stealing it) afterwards. Then you can mass upgrade and just go kill someone. Horse archers are totally unfair units that should be abused whenever you play Arabia, as they can get in range of a city/unit, shoot for good damage, then back out.
Arabia is one of the few Civs I can understand opening liberty if the land is good because of how good the Bazaar is when you have a wide variety of luxuries in your area and how well getting ready for conquest five cities are at producing 8-9 chariot archers. I still like Tradition more if you don't have a variety of luxuries as you get to Chivalry faster, but especially on Immortal and below the Liberty finisher can get you Petra usually, which is generally GG if you have enough hills or oasis nearby (some improved Petra tiles-notably most irrigated hills, sheep, incense, and other tiles- are busted in half with their yields).
4.5/5 Stars
Austria
UA: Diplomatic Marriage : Can spend gold Gold to annex or puppet a City-State that has been your ally for 5 turns.
UU: Hussar (Cavalry replacement that is completely unremarkable)
UB: Coffee House ( Windmill replacement that gives +25% GP growth and +2 hammers/5% production)
Maria Theresa is, like other Civs that played well into a strong early Tradition opening in G&K, brought down a slight notch in BNW's early game due to the slower speed of development of empires in the expansion. There is a new tension between city growth and money that exists with Caravan and especially Cargo Ship usage that hits all Civs that want to start slow and grow tall. Not much else has changed about her playstyle, and I encourage working with nearby city states until your immediate land is developed and then "expanding" to nearby city states to gain their armies to help you wipe out neighbours. City-state armies can be no joke, and the city you get through marriage that late in the game comes with a huge pile of population and with almost all of the buildings you need. Perfect for any victory condition.
Coffee Houses are much better in BNW-the addition of the guilds and the separate growing cost tracks for Great Artists/Writers/Musicians vs. the normal Great Person cost track really help her play a tall, peaceful culture game where you slowly buy out nearby city states as a means of containers for extra great works and artifacts in the later game. I still like the Tradition/2 points Patronage for Consulates/Rationalism right side into ideology for her-safe and standard build. Religion is something you approach out of opportunity with Theresa-if you think you can get Stonehenge, hae a religious natural wonder nearby you can settle near early, or have terrain that plays well into a pantheon, go for it. Try to get Tithe and spread it around so you can have more cash to buy out city states sooner and get some happiness perks so that you can hang on to growth through the population spurts that come with buying out a CS.
4/5 Stars
Babylon
UA: Ingenuity Receive free Great Scientist when you discover Writing. Earn Great Scientists 50% faster.
UU: Bowman : Replaces Archer, has higher ranged combat and defense.
UB: Walls of Babylon
Everyone's favorite tech victory beast returns in BNW and he's actually nastier than ever. Babylon has always been a Civ with a linear strategy-build a tall empire, turn Babylon into a huge academy farm, launch spaceship in the mid 200s and completely clock the AI's tech rate. BNW's cargo ship/caravan changes have huge ramifications for Babylon, as you can force feed the capital to grow into absurd sizes quickly. It comes at the expense of income, but that's not terribly a downer for Babylon-they never want to build more units than they need, and eventually you will get enough trade routes to bring in some solid income while feeding Bablyon all game (which you will do).
Babylon does come out the gate a bit slower due to the lump sum trading changes, but not too much. I recommend going three city tradition into National College, and force feed Babylon early at the expense of the other cities as much as possible after the first caravan runs are done (which will feed your nearby cities you just founded). Your capital will explode and the game literally almost plays itself from there on out. You want to try to at least secure nuclear weapons or two as the game winds down so that the opposing ideology AIs don't fuck with you while your build your spaceship parts.
I don't ever go religion w/ Babylon unless it just lands in my lap, but if you have non-religious neighbors getting Fertility Rites off one Shrine is the bees knees.
5/5 Stars - TOP 5 CIV, best for tech victory.
----
As always if you have questions about a Civ, feel free to ask in the thread.
UA : Manifest Destiny ( All Land units have +1 sight. 50% discount when buying tiles)
UU : Minuteman (Musket replacement, comes with Drill I and moves freely through terrain at 1 movement cost)
UU : B-17 (comes with Evasion and Siege I and 5 extra combat power right off bat)
America is the very definition of a middling original Civilization. At first glance you might dismiss America as a worse Shoshone, that's not the case. Washington's UA allows the early warrior to get ruins pretty effectively, and lets scouts really bust the fog and find city states first for cash as well as finding ruins and good places for cities. Once you found your cities, you can then buy the hills that the city border expansion avoids for cheap or aggressively buy out a set of tiles to get a luxury three tiles away or to just get a couple of fish and rush buy a lighthouse for lightning fast growth. The lump sum trading changes in BNW hit America pretty hard, but his playstyle is relatively unchanged.
Minutemen are actually terrific units for siege in the early Renassiance era as they are very durable and can easily be retreated and replaced through any terrain due to their movement bonuses. It seems like a small benefit but I have had tremendous success with them on both Immortal and Deity as a backbone unit alongside ranged and some siege to soak damage from defenders and not lose units (the goal of any war in Civ 5).
B-17s come out of the gate with Siege I, so you can go Siege 2 and right to the extremely powerful air repair with just a couple of experience buildings. Generally if I am massing bombers I am going to have Autocracy and have discount to the rush buys, so you can just rush by air repair bombers and that is the best way to clean out 1000+ hammers per turn worth of units that the AI can mass at you at the endgame (well, before nukes, but still). It's not a bad unit but like the minuteman isn't gamebreaking.
2/5 Stars
UA: Ships of the Desert : Caravans gain 50% extended range. Your trade routes spread the home city's religion twice as effectively. oil Oil resources are doubled.
UB: Bazaar (gain an extra copy of any luxury worked by this city. +2 gold and 25% gold in this city. Replaces Market)
UA: Camel Archers (Ranged mounted unit, 4 movement speed, 21 ranged damage, can move after combat. Replaces Knight)
Special Note : Desert start bias
One of the best all around Civs, and in BNW Harun's Arabia is still extremely powerful. Extended range Caravans let you get foreign trade routes early for more cash, but most importantly it dose so by letting you centralize your caravans all out of the same city, which is extremely helpful for the purposes of city specialization (only need one bank in the capital) and works well with the Commerce opener. The religious spread is a minor thing and will not have very large impact without additional effort to spread the religion around. Arabia's desert bias makes for an easy religion with the Desert Folklore pantheon, and it is suggested that you pair that with Tithe , one of Mosques/Pagodas, and with Guruship (if going wide) or Religious Community (if going tall) for the extra overall output to make your cities more productive.
The Bazaar is just as crazy awesome as ever, providing the ability to turn any luxury into more money-it effectively turns luxury tiles into producing 6-8 extra GPT if you can trade the surplus on top of giving the city 25% more gold and providing and extra base 1 gold over a standard market. Camel Archers are also still almost a guaranteed kill of a neighbour if you prepare the timing push for them correctly-you will build chariot archers, not archers, and then go to Education, doubling back to Chivalry (or stealing it) afterwards. Then you can mass upgrade and just go kill someone. Horse archers are totally unfair units that should be abused whenever you play Arabia, as they can get in range of a city/unit, shoot for good damage, then back out.
Arabia is one of the few Civs I can understand opening liberty if the land is good because of how good the Bazaar is when you have a wide variety of luxuries in your area and how well getting ready for conquest five cities are at producing 8-9 chariot archers. I still like Tradition more if you don't have a variety of luxuries as you get to Chivalry faster, but especially on Immortal and below the Liberty finisher can get you Petra usually, which is generally GG if you have enough hills or oasis nearby (some improved Petra tiles-notably most irrigated hills, sheep, incense, and other tiles- are busted in half with their yields).
4.5/5 Stars
UA: Diplomatic Marriage : Can spend gold Gold to annex or puppet a City-State that has been your ally for 5 turns.
UU: Hussar (Cavalry replacement that is completely unremarkable)
UB: Coffee House ( Windmill replacement that gives +25% GP growth and +2 hammers/5% production)
Maria Theresa is, like other Civs that played well into a strong early Tradition opening in G&K, brought down a slight notch in BNW's early game due to the slower speed of development of empires in the expansion. There is a new tension between city growth and money that exists with Caravan and especially Cargo Ship usage that hits all Civs that want to start slow and grow tall. Not much else has changed about her playstyle, and I encourage working with nearby city states until your immediate land is developed and then "expanding" to nearby city states to gain their armies to help you wipe out neighbours. City-state armies can be no joke, and the city you get through marriage that late in the game comes with a huge pile of population and with almost all of the buildings you need. Perfect for any victory condition.
Coffee Houses are much better in BNW-the addition of the guilds and the separate growing cost tracks for Great Artists/Writers/Musicians vs. the normal Great Person cost track really help her play a tall, peaceful culture game where you slowly buy out nearby city states as a means of containers for extra great works and artifacts in the later game. I still like the Tradition/2 points Patronage for Consulates/Rationalism right side into ideology for her-safe and standard build. Religion is something you approach out of opportunity with Theresa-if you think you can get Stonehenge, hae a religious natural wonder nearby you can settle near early, or have terrain that plays well into a pantheon, go for it. Try to get Tithe and spread it around so you can have more cash to buy out city states sooner and get some happiness perks so that you can hang on to growth through the population spurts that come with buying out a CS.
4/5 Stars
UA: Ingenuity Receive free Great Scientist when you discover Writing. Earn Great Scientists 50% faster.
UU: Bowman : Replaces Archer, has higher ranged combat and defense.
UB: Walls of Babylon
Everyone's favorite tech victory beast returns in BNW and he's actually nastier than ever. Babylon has always been a Civ with a linear strategy-build a tall empire, turn Babylon into a huge academy farm, launch spaceship in the mid 200s and completely clock the AI's tech rate. BNW's cargo ship/caravan changes have huge ramifications for Babylon, as you can force feed the capital to grow into absurd sizes quickly. It comes at the expense of income, but that's not terribly a downer for Babylon-they never want to build more units than they need, and eventually you will get enough trade routes to bring in some solid income while feeding Bablyon all game (which you will do).
Babylon does come out the gate a bit slower due to the lump sum trading changes, but not too much. I recommend going three city tradition into National College, and force feed Babylon early at the expense of the other cities as much as possible after the first caravan runs are done (which will feed your nearby cities you just founded). Your capital will explode and the game literally almost plays itself from there on out. You want to try to at least secure nuclear weapons or two as the game winds down so that the opposing ideology AIs don't fuck with you while your build your spaceship parts.
I don't ever go religion w/ Babylon unless it just lands in my lap, but if you have non-religious neighbors getting Fertility Rites off one Shrine is the bees knees.
5/5 Stars - TOP 5 CIV, best for tech victory.
----
As always if you have questions about a Civ, feel free to ask in the thread.