Clair Obscur Developers Visit Square Enix Office for Exchange of Ideas.
Bernardougf
Member
Oh No!!
Run Forrest Run !!!!
Run Forrest Run !!!!
Werewolf Jones
Member
All you have to do is make a good, original game that holds the core values and identity of the franchise.
It's really not that difficult, no turn based needed but Square Enix can't even do that.
It's really not that difficult, no turn based needed but Square Enix can't even do that.
Bernardougf
Member
Highly contradictory statement buddy.
Peroroncino
Member
I hope someone told them FFIX remake is a decent idea, otherwise, don't give them any.
Little Mac
Member
They are going to be bought, aren't they?
According to Google AI, Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 has sold 3.3 million copies within 33 days of its release in April 2025. In comparison, FFXVI sold 3.5 million copies over two years.
According to Google AI, Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 has sold 3.3 million copies within 33 days of its release in April 2025. In comparison, FFXVI sold 3.5 million copies over two years.
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Werewolf Jones
Member
Not really considering they made at least 6 of them in the past.
The problem is they are chasing trends and wanting a "global audience" and a "casual audience"
Revolutionary
Member
Guillaume: "What if you made the next Final Fantasy turn-based?"
Square Enix:
Square Enix:
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SamuraiEdge
Member
Guillaume: "What if you made the next Final Fantasy turn-based?"
Square Enix:
I would like to see FF17 or 18 turned based.
Sebastian1295
Member
As someone who pre-ordered ff16 and got it on launch, i can tell you that the game is a boring piece of shit that i never came close to finishing. The combat is braindead nonsense that consists of button mashing and waiting for your cooldowns to end just so you can button mash some more times infinity. It is garbage and terrible combat that gets old fast, and it never changes nor brings anything interesting enough to the table for you to get excited about.
Add to that the story which is boring beyond belief and consists of characters i just didn't give a crap about nor does the game give you any reason to give a crap about, and it adds up to an horrific experience. Square enix have lost their way with final fantasy in terms of storytelling, characters, world building, combat etc. They have completely destroyed the series frankly.
Add to that the story which is boring beyond belief and consists of characters i just didn't give a crap about nor does the game give you any reason to give a crap about, and it adds up to an horrific experience. Square enix have lost their way with final fantasy in terms of storytelling, characters, world building, combat etc. They have completely destroyed the series frankly.
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crackajack
Member
Failing is part of learning, but you don't have to necessarily fail yourself to get knowledge and wisdom. So "what not to become" can be immensely helpful?
Square might be able to tell them what problems they have, and how they try to get passed it, unless they have never identified them correctly, which I fear might be the case. Dumbasses were unable to profit from iconic Tomb Raider and now well running Hitman (not sure why Deus Ex was not successful... it was good, but somehow market did not respond) and seem a bit irrelevant since years, still stuck in the migration problems that happened for pretty much all japanese devs in the PS3 era.
And devs work kinda open together. Those GDC talks are showing that. This is just a marketing stunt I guess. Maybe get some additional publicity in the japanese market?
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Bernardougf
Member
Good Turn base gameplay was a big part of the "core and identify" that made FF famous . .. saying that they have to respect the core and identity of the classic games but not turn based gameplay is the definition of contradiction, afterall we are talking about a game therefore nothing is more important than the gameplay.
Nobody was hyping up FFVI trough FFXII saying "wow this games are trully awsome despite having turn based"
You are basically doing the same thing as Square Enix ... trying to find core and identity and ignoring the huge big turn based elephant in the room screaming "look at me"
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Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
Sebastian1295
Member
It's not the turn based combat that's the biggest problem with the series right now in my opinion. It's the fact that the characters are boring shit and the world building/world itself is uninteresting and uninspired. FF15 and FF16 both have characters that are wooden, uninteresting, boring, with generic personalities that feel like something out of a bad shonen manga that gets canceled after the first volume. And when you're exploring these worlds, the npc's are all lifeless and generic and there's just 0 world building going on in any of the towns or the world itself.
Final fantasy used to be about the party you explored with, the cities you visited and the great backstories for each character you'd get in each city/town, the great lore with some games featuring different in game languages and cultures, and the high fantasy vibes that made everything feel unique and lived in. Nowadays final fantasy is just generic/boring and they've tried to make edgy characters that are bland with almost no interesting/redeeming qualities about them. Even the designs of the characters/world is crap in the newer final fantasty games. It's just shit truthfully and i could rant forever but i'll stop lol.
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mèx
Member
For their next game, Square Enix should just say they developed it with 30 people and build a narrative around that (absolutely never mention contractors!). That will ensure a guaranteed wankfest from the media and forums alike, where every failing of the game can be swept under the rug because "small team".
Donald mac Ronald
Member
ATB isn't turn based. FF 10 is like the only final fantasy turn based game they have made in 30 years. So he isn't contradicting himself.
Larxia
Member
I have a question to people who want the next FF to be turn based.
Do you like... want a more fresh take on turn based (aka persona 5, Clair Obscure etc...), or do you actually mean that you want the series to go back to the very classic type of turn based from before, like what Dragon Quest is doing?
Because I always found this type of old school turn based a chore to play, it's super boring, it doesn't even involve strategy, it's just... that you're clicking on a menu to do actions instead of doing them in real time, but it's really not strategic or fun at all.
I played several several turn based FF, I also finished two dragon quest games, and it was always just awful to me, compared to something like Persona 5 (or western turn based like Baldur's Gate 3 or Midnight Suns, but that's very different) where I do find fun there.
I'm really surprised if people really want the gameplay from old FFs to be back.
I'm not completely against the idea of something turn based-ish related, but it must really not be like it was before, and I think that's something a LOT of people who want old FF to be back, don't realize.
People say that Expedition 33 or Baldur's Gate 3 are proof that turn based still has an audience, but these turn based involve a lot more thing than the classic jrpg turn base. If tomorrow Square Enix release something with FF X gameplay (or even any of the old ATB ones) I'm really not sure people will praise its combats.
Do you like... want a more fresh take on turn based (aka persona 5, Clair Obscure etc...), or do you actually mean that you want the series to go back to the very classic type of turn based from before, like what Dragon Quest is doing?
Because I always found this type of old school turn based a chore to play, it's super boring, it doesn't even involve strategy, it's just... that you're clicking on a menu to do actions instead of doing them in real time, but it's really not strategic or fun at all.
I played several several turn based FF, I also finished two dragon quest games, and it was always just awful to me, compared to something like Persona 5 (or western turn based like Baldur's Gate 3 or Midnight Suns, but that's very different) where I do find fun there.
I'm really surprised if people really want the gameplay from old FFs to be back.
I'm not completely against the idea of something turn based-ish related, but it must really not be like it was before, and I think that's something a LOT of people who want old FF to be back, don't realize.
People say that Expedition 33 or Baldur's Gate 3 are proof that turn based still has an audience, but these turn based involve a lot more thing than the classic jrpg turn base. If tomorrow Square Enix release something with FF X gameplay (or even any of the old ATB ones) I'm really not sure people will praise its combats.
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Lokaum D+
Member
Bernardougf
Member
I agree that the gameplay is not the only problem... but it is a problem.. they really lost their identity with the series.. problem is part of that identity is in turn based gameplay, and this will never change in my eyes and in many fans. Dissociating this identity from the classic gameplay is not something valid imhoIt's not the turn based combat that's the biggest problem with the series right now in my opinion. It's the fact that the characters are boring shit and the world building/world itself is uninteresting and uninspired. FF15 and FF16 both have characters that are wooden, uninteresting, boring, with generic personalities that feel like something out of a bad shonen manga that gets canceled after the first volume. And when you're exploring these worlds, the npc's are all lifeless and generic and there's just 0 world building going on in any of the towns or the world itself.
Final fantasy used to be about the party you explored with, the cities you visited and the great backstories for each character you'd get in each city/town, the great lore with some games featuring different in game languages and cultures, and the high fantasy vibes that made everything feel unique and lived in. Nowadays final fantasy is just generic/boring and they've tried to make edgy characters that are bland with almost no interesting/redeeming qualities about them. Even the designs of the characters/world is crap in the newer final fantasty games. It's just shit truthfully and i could rant forever but i'll stop lol.
Bernardougf
Member
And people that dont like TB games keeps ignoring the elephant in the room as usual.
Ppl really dont ge the core values of FF series.....
RagnarokIV
Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
Will EX33 team influence the next FF to be good. Or will SqEnix influence the next EX33 to be shit?
Sebastian1295
Member
I mean i think the gameplay is a problem too. I've said numerous times that ff16's combat was boring button mashing crap and i stand by that.
Bernardougf
Member
FF success was built on this formula, once they changed their series lost progressive relevance and its being getting worse and worse, I understand not liking classic TB systems, what I dont understand its why trying to deny that is part of what made the series success and since its absence its been downhill... SE tried to change the formula in search of wider audience, and in their trend chasing they lost all its identity imho
For me its like saying.. I wished xbox made a Halo third person side scroller, because I hate FPS games...
willothedog
Member
....and they were never seen again
Donald mac Ronald
Member
Yup he's convinced that the core values is turn based. When only one game was turn based.
Ppl really dont ge the core values of FF series.....
Von Hugh
Member
Dr.Morris79
Member
So basically Square forgot they invented the wheel and now they're so retarded they need reminding 
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
I really hope Squeenix play and enjoy expedition tree-triddy.
But even if they do, they'll be like "of course, we should have put mimes in our games! That will fix everything! And if we add artsy black and white cut scenes it'll be a gold mine!"
But even if they do, they'll be like "of course, we should have put mimes in our games! That will fix everything! And if we add artsy black and white cut scenes it'll be a gold mine!"
Larxia
Member
I don't think that what you described (loss of success) is related to the combats, but to many other factors.
FF XIII for example was still menu based, ATB, it wasn't an "action" game, and its combat system was actually decent. The problem was the structure of the game. The combats only get interesting late game, and the fact that the game is basically a 50 hours linear dungeon with no break is what bothered people the most.
FF XV, while having weird / assisted combats and no challenge, had much worse going on for it than just the combats. I still like this game because I have a particular affection toward it (because of all the VS XIII hype for 10 years etc etc), but the real issues of FF XV are its cross media thing where you need to watch a movie etc to get the full story, the unfinished game, the DLCs, the rushed second half of the game, the Insomnia invasion totally missing from the game because it all happens in a prequel movie instead...
FF XVI I haven't played, can't say much other than it looks too generic and boring to me.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that the recent main title FF games that created a lot of controversy didn't only for their combats, but because of other things. We didn't have an example of one AMAZING FF game, action based, to really judge. I can assure you that giving turn based combats to FF XV wouldn't have made it more appreciated, if all the rest was the same.
Werewolf Jones
Member
FF doesn't need turn based, but it does need good games. The next one could be turn based and the game might still be bad. What excuse will be pulled then?
Lokaum D+
Member
Dude I platinuned E33 2 times ( PS5 and Xbox ), Im playing Metaphor right now, TB was never a "core" value of FF games and to be fair back in the day RPG was the genre of choice cause It was easier to deliver story telling, world building and characters development the true core values of all FF games.
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Markio128
Member
You can't blame Square for trying to appeal to a newer audience, however, that newer audience doesn't appear to be interested in JRPGs.
Whilst I loved the FF7 remakes, I would have preferred them to have remained turn-based, as would most I'd imagine. I do play them in the auto combat mode, which is okay, but takes away some of the tactical approach.
I do wonder if the remakes would have been more popular if the combat was the same as the original? Or has genuine interest in FF waned?
Whilst I loved the FF7 remakes, I would have preferred them to have remained turn-based, as would most I'd imagine. I do play them in the auto combat mode, which is okay, but takes away some of the tactical approach.
I do wonder if the remakes would have been more popular if the combat was the same as the original? Or has genuine interest in FF waned?
diffusionx
Gold Member
the weird thing is that they CAN and have. Octopath 2 is considered to be excellent.
For some reason they keep screwing up Final Fantasy
ElFenomeno
Member
Goats meeting goats.
icecold1983
Member
I'm not sure what any competent developer could possibly learn from the Square Enix of today.
Donald mac Ronald
Member
"Semantics"
You came into this thread only to argue semantics to seem clever?
ATB is literally not turn based. The fact that he tries to argue this show he has no clue, it's not semantics.
Go fight omega in ff8 and think you get to take turns. You don't. The boss will destroy you if you aren't quick.
Lokaum D+
Member
The problem is that Japan dont understand that their audience are now adults, back in the 80/90s most of us were kids, so the edge teenager lord with spike hair and big swords was amazing to us, but now we are 30/40yo farts, 90% of JRPG fan base has grown old and the games still doing the same Edge teenager lord with spiked hair and big swords and thats why E33 is a sucess, is a JRPG for adults, with beliveble characters, great writing and amazing story.
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