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COMICS! |OT| April 2015. Everyone's burned out and looking for an excuse to quit.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
- Start date
my name is ed
Banned
Alright, first up is Dexter Vines! He does tons of great inking work and always rarely drops in form.
Here's a comparison page of what Coipel's pencils look like for this page.
Here is what Vine's inks look like on top of those.
Coipel, like many other pencilers, first sketches out in non photo copy blue pencil and then adds and erases and adds pencil lines to the piece until the structure and figure of the page is to satisfaction. To save himself some time, knowing that Vines will go over his work, Coipel and many other pencilers simply draw to the edges of black spaces and label the black spaces with a letter specifying the area is black. The Ss that you see in the pencils probably indicate that stars should be present in the black area.
Texture wise, you can see how Coipel directs where texture (in this case, mostly crosshatching) should be. Vines follows suit and gives some nice careful calculated crosshatching. The inker is also responsible for making transitions between black areas and white areas look interesting and natural.
In terms of line width, this is an almost invisible effect unless you're looking pretty closely. Line width gives better dimension to objects. For example, the ink lines outlining a person may be thicker than the ink lining outlining a cloth fold. Lines also vary depending on the light source. Lighter lines indicate an area closer to light.
An inker can definitely make a difference on a book. Look at the difference between how Bryan Hitch looks when he's inked by Butch Guice
vs when he's inked by Paul Neary
A pretty classic case for inkers if Scott Williams who has inked a ridiculous amount of Jim Lee's art. I've always though Lee lets himself get pretty loose on his pencils since he knows exactly what Scott Williams is gonna do for him. While pretty much everything you see in the final image was in some form there from the pencils, the linework wont look finished until Williams gets his hands on it. Shade transitions and smaller details are really things that an inker can make a big difference on.
Some inkers can definitely bring their own style to a book. A book inked by Bill Sienkiewicz will have a very distinct ink look to it. He's got these scratchy white lines that cross a lot of objects and some ink splatters. It looks awesome and Maleev probably takes a lot from Bill Sienkiewicz. Here he is on Buscema and Dan Jurgens and on himself ( not totally sure on the last one but I think so)
There are some artist can have their pencils taken straight to color. You have to make your pencils supertight and you need a really good colorist. Off the top of my head, The Wolverine Origin mini by a Kubert brother did this colored by Isanove
and Opena colored by White is straight from his pencils
TLDR: inking is important yall
Here's a comparison page of what Coipel's pencils look like for this page.
Here is what Vine's inks look like on top of those.
So what's Vines doing that adds to the piece? He brings clarity, texture and line width to the work.
Coipel, like many other pencilers, first sketches out in non photo copy blue pencil and then adds and erases and adds pencil lines to the piece until the structure and figure of the page is to satisfaction. To save himself some time, knowing that Vines will go over his work, Coipel and many other pencilers simply draw to the edges of black spaces and label the black spaces with a letter specifying the area is black. The Ss that you see in the pencils probably indicate that stars should be present in the black area.
Texture wise, you can see how Coipel directs where texture (in this case, mostly crosshatching) should be. Vines follows suit and gives some nice careful calculated crosshatching. The inker is also responsible for making transitions between black areas and white areas look interesting and natural.
In terms of line width, this is an almost invisible effect unless you're looking pretty closely. Line width gives better dimension to objects. For example, the ink lines outlining a person may be thicker than the ink lining outlining a cloth fold. Lines also vary depending on the light source. Lighter lines indicate an area closer to light.
An inker can definitely make a difference on a book. Look at the difference between how Bryan Hitch looks when he's inked by Butch Guice
vs when he's inked by Paul Neary
Guice gives it a very brushy look and Neary is more technical. I prefer Neary on Hitch personally but I think Guice's brushy inking would work better on someone like Epting.
A pretty classic case for inkers if Scott Williams who has inked a ridiculous amount of Jim Lee's art. I've always though Lee lets himself get pretty loose on his pencils since he knows exactly what Scott Williams is gonna do for him. While pretty much everything you see in the final image was in some form there from the pencils, the linework wont look finished until Williams gets his hands on it. Shade transitions and smaller details are really things that an inker can make a big difference on.
Some inkers can definitely bring their own style to a book. A book inked by Bill Sienkiewicz will have a very distinct ink look to it. He's got these scratchy white lines that cross a lot of objects and some ink splatters. It looks awesome and Maleev probably takes a lot from Bill Sienkiewicz. Here he is on Buscema and Dan Jurgens and on himself ( not totally sure on the last one but I think so)
There are some artist can have their pencils taken straight to color. You have to make your pencils supertight and you need a really good colorist. Off the top of my head, The Wolverine Origin mini by a Kubert brother did this colored by Isanove
and Opena colored by White is straight from his pencils
It's easier to have an inker if you have a traditional artist though so most editors choose to have an inker.
TLDR: inking is important yall
TetraxShards
Member
I hate it when our parents fight.
Your mom and I want you to know that none of this is your fault, and we both love you very much.
Awesome work, man.
No comics for me tonight. Staying up for the Amazon Mortal Kombat X stream. Love bank holiday weekends. Might crack into the easter egg my brother bought me as well.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Pfff they're just tracers
That's just parent talk for "everything is your fault".
Well that seems oddly familiar
I am actually watching that too. Loving it so far.
This 100%
Tyrant Rave
Banned
Good post ed. Another good example that JC sent my way is Frank Miller. His work inked by Joe Rubinstein (Wolverine) and his work inked by Klaus Janson (TDKR) show a night and day difference. Rubinstein makes his drawings look almost soft while Janson's inking makes it much more harsh and raw.
TetraxShards
Member
I spend all day at work busting my hump for this family.... *shakes fist*
Well that seems oddly familiar
I am actually watching that too. Loving it so far.
I'm just glad I watched the Story Mode cutscenes on YouTube as they talked over all of it. I wish Fujin was playable.
"She called me Johnny...."
Not ready for these feels TBH.
It pains me to know JC is still reading the thread but he can't post. He would be perfect for this inking discussion.
All I wanted was Frost. But we will prob never see Frost in MK again
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
What's that Opena Cyclops Phoenix from??
All this uninked artwork makes me wish that we saw more of it. My frustration with a lot of inking is how it reduces the variety of tone and line achieved even in the same weight pencil to a flat shade (such as, for example, the backside of Batman in the picture by Jim Lee) in order to emphasise a contrast of tone overall. I find parts of the imagery a lot more static with the direction of the pencilwork missing.
I like how Simone Bianchi's work is often inked, however. Does he do that himself?
I like how Simone Bianchi's work is often inked, however. Does he do that himself?
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Let's amass the team brah.Ed omfg holy fuck that is amazing and fucking gorgeous!
What about lettering? That is something I am looking into as well. My hand writing is wonderful and I would enjoy that. Is there any style or anything that you have to conform to?
Dual writers. Let's be the next Millar and Vaughn. When is that Oni deadline? June?
Sometimes I feel like the coloring hurts the art. Case and point Catwoman recently and a few of the recent Uncanny X-Men issues. Uncanny in particular has very odd coloring all the way through. Makes me appreciate good coloring even more.
I love black and white art. Its part of the reason I bought Demo today. I loved it in Strangers in Paradise too.
I love black and white art. Its part of the reason I bought Demo today. I loved it in Strangers in Paradise too.
whatsinaname
Member
Ugh, both Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter are so boring. Dropped. Might drop Arrow next.
He stopped and it is back with the other crew. Goro coming up soon.
Hey man let me see that ticket for a second. I wanna check it out and see if you really won.
TetraxShards
Member
All I wanted was Frost. But we will prob never see Frost in MK again
Eh, too many ninjas already. I'd gladly cut Ermac or Reptile for her though.
I was hoping for more new characters. Honestly, Scorpion, Sub-Zero and 22 newcomers would have been perfect even if some of them were legacy characters. A lot of the newcomers are based on Injustice characters anyway (Kung Jin is Green Arrow, Erron Black is a mix of Batman and Deathstroke, Jacqui is a faster Luthor, Ferra/Torr is Solomon Grundy, etc).
Or...or...hear me out.
Tempting as fuck.
"Time to work for a living!"
Or...or...hear me out.
I'll stick with my cheap plastic crack fix from Hasbro and DC Collectibles
Here, have an Eva Bell commission from Marcio Takara.
my name is ed
Banned
Thanks, man. Glad you enjoyed it.
That they do. I think inkers have gotten less respect lately since colorists have gotten so much better. Coloring in the mid to late 90s and some of the early naughts was baaaad
I was gonna touch Klaus Johnson's work on JRJR but I have things to draw haha and I cant write up about comics while drawing. I could easily go into the subject for a long time but then poof there goes my saturday
AvX cover. You can find it on Dean White's deviant art page.
So Simone Bianchi does inkwashes. I love the way it looks. He can do it himself but if I remember correctly, he has an assistant whose main job is to do inkwashes
I get what you're saying about the inks but Ill disagree with you on this piece. Jim Lee's pencils give no indication he wanted that area to have any variety of tone. Williams could easily keep that there but there's no point to it. It doesn't lead the eye to where it needs to go and there is no accompanying direction for other similar areas that dont contradict.
It is nice to see some pencil pages though. Dale Keown's pencil are fucking ridic
Thanks, happy to help.Ed omfg holy fuck that is amazing and fucking gorgeous!
What about lettering? That is something I am looking into as well. My hand writing is wonderful and I would enjoy that. Is there any style or anything that you have to conform to?
As for lettering, I'm not well versed in it. Todd Klein is considered the master though and has a blog out there about lettering. Most lettering is done digitally. Birdie knows a good bit about lettering
Some colorists are bad haha Or sometimes they're just ill fits with certain art styles
TetraxShards
Member
The other one is way better.
Is that guy Tyler is playing a streamer/YouTuber? My god he's so bloody annoying. All he needs to do is scream "THANKS FOR SUBBIN' BRO!" to complete the douchey experience.
"I despise claptrap." I choose to take that as a Borderlands reference.
Whether or not Lee wanted there to be a difference on tone in the backside, I would still argue that there is. (For example, if you look specifically at Batman's left buttock, you will see that the top half is slightly darker than the bottom half.)
While I agree that the inked piece has a much higher contrast than the pencil drawing (although I imagine it would be difficult for it not to), and as such successfully highlights Batman's position in the composition, I find that Superman subsequently gets slightly lost in it. Looking at the pencils my eye gets drawn more easily from the right of the page to the left, where the contrast of Batman's cape and his body seems to disrupt that in the inked image.
GrandHarrier
Member
Do people go in to specifically focus on inking or are they artists who just haven't picked up to do pencils on a title yet?
Freezasaurus
Member
They're both hilarious. Can't wait for this game.
Now that you mention it... when WAS the last Marvel crossover?
Freezasaurus
Member
Does Disney Infinity count?
Tyrant Rave
Banned
Avengers x Attack on Titan?
TetraxShards
Member
OH MY GOD YES!
Will buy early and often. I wish it was TOS and not Abrams but I'll take it.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
All my lettering knowledge is digital and straight from the masters at Comicraft and their essential Guide to Lettering.
If you want to learn about hand lettering, pick up any issue of Cerebus after about issue 75.
If you want to learn about hand lettering, pick up any issue of Cerebus after about issue 75.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Holy crap. Unity 15 and ESPECIALLY 16 were incredible. Kindt is doing something really special and unprecedented in a team book with this one.
TetraxShards
Member
My local bookstore has Anna and Elsa. I'm really tempted.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
I need to get Age of Ultron Hulk and Hawkguy one of these days. I saw them at GameStop while I was waiting for my amiibo preorder transaction to complete.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
I read two volumes of manga today. I'm getting closer.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
To what?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Find.
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