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COMICS! |OT| April 2015. Everyone's burned out and looking for an excuse to quit.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
- Start date
my name is ed
Banned
I wanted to write up about how his behavior is problematic and how blowing off criticism as people getting mad just to get mad is just continuing to be dismissive of people who have had their concerns dismissed by the industry and by other fans is also problematic
But I think you said it best before
Frank Cho suuuuuucks
im a bit biased, but i liked the superman issue.
I've actually seen a lot of people praise this issue today. Might just pick it up tonight.
Freezasaurus
Member
I still don't understand what the problem was with the initial Spider-Woman pic. You hire a dude who does a lot of erotic art to do a piece of a female character, you should already have an idea of what you're going to get.
Poodlestrike
Banned
It's a little bit problematic in the same sense that 99% of the depictions of women in comic books is problematic.
Which robs the resulting outrage of a lot of its merit, really. One gets the sense that it's not the subject matter that got (most; again, there's legitimate criticisms to be levied here) people up in arms, but the potential attention getting up in arms would gather. Makes it all feel sort of hollow, really.
Freezasaurus
Member
So let me field a question to you guys. My LCS is running a promotion until the 26th. You spend $100 or more in a single transaction, you get a ticket to see Age of Ultron @ 7PM on Thursday of the week it opens. It's at a Regal cinema, and the shop has the entire theater just for their customers.
Worth it?
Worth it?
That final Miles issue seemed like
. Bit of a shame for the series to end on that note, although I doubt it's truly the end for a Miles ongoing.
they ran out of time. Things just suddenly ended, Miles gets a new power out of nowhere, there's no resolution between him and Katie (she's cut off mid sentence) and then suddenly "oh here's Secret Wars"
Serpentine
Banned
cool, thanks. gonna see if the shop has anymore Supermans, and i'll scout the rest next week
wasn't a hire, he was doin it just cuz
Boooooooo
Ultimate End sounds like it's going to focus heavily on Miles.
Freezasaurus
Member
So how did it end up being a variant cover?
If there was a faux pas here, it was clearly on Marvel's end.
Serpentine
Banned
oh, my bad. i'm talking about the original Cho drawing.
I agree with you, then. DK why Marvel, who's trying to reach out to a wider fanbase, hit up ass-man Manara for that cover. and then Land for the interiors.
Freezasaurus
Member
On the Frank Cho side of things, sure it may have come off as juvenile. But the dude can draw whatever he wants. If people get butthurt over it, who gives a shit? If you try to stop people from doing things like this, it very much becomes a censorship issue. And fuck censorship.
Would you like to upgrade your drink to a large for 50c more?
Poodlestrike
Banned
Well, if they're willing to go to Land for... uh, anything, I'm not sure how you can say they're trying to reach out to a wider fanbase.
Or any fanbase at all really.
Freezasaurus
Member
Only if I can sit next to Dead Yamcha.
Deadpool #45, holy crap. That's a pretty bittersweet thing.
And yeah, Ultimate End seems really Miles focussed. But that's not entirely strange, he's like the only guy (well okay I like Ultimate Fury too) worth a damn. Allthough I'm really curious about his and Ultimate Reed's role in the end.
Everyone else dies. Well almost everyone.
And yeah, Ultimate End seems really Miles focussed. But that's not entirely strange, he's like the only guy (well okay I like Ultimate Fury too) worth a damn. Allthough I'm really curious about his and Ultimate Reed's role in the end.
Everyone else dies. Well almost everyone.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Someone should Frank the Frank that drawing.
The truth is that you would be better off just buying your ticket. You pretty much feel compelled to buy a lot of shit you may not want at that moment, just so you can get a "free"' ticket, when in reality you're just saving $14 on an order. It's pretty lame.
TetraxShards
Member
I can only speak for myself, but while companies have the right to publish and sell these works, I have the right to not buy it and complain about it. Not buying it does more to get the point across than me complaining about it. I wasn't even angry, I was just shaking my head at it and the Cho drawings. Nothing worth getting mad about, they are just extremely dumb and tone-deaf to what's going on right now. It's like that kid that wouldn't stop screaming "TITS" in my cinema earlier. Edgy and crass for the sake of it. I think the bitching on Twitter is a little much, but I can understand their point of view.
Have come to the conclusion between internet stuff and work stuff recently that Twitter kind of sucks. At least it feels like the good things that come from it are rarer. Maybe everyone is on Instagram now. I tried it but my phone camera sucks and so does their desktop site.
I dunno man, a theater full of comic store dudes is going to have some serious stank. But if there's a $100 of stuff you want to buy, do it. I probably would.
I actually got my unlimited card for the cinema I work at yesterday. All the movies and snacks I want. What a shame there's only like two movies I want to see this summer.
Freezasaurus
Member
You're right. The advantage I see to it, though, is that I'll probably be in a mostly empty theater which is going to be IMPOSSIBLE for an AoU showing for the first couple weeks.
And I do want that Hawkgirl Bombshell statue....The one ENTERTAINMENT EARTH STILL HASN'T SHIPPED.
Serpentine
Banned
I don't think anyone's trying to stop Cho, though. The strongest reaction i've seen was "ugh, fuck that guy," which i think is something I said. i mean, he put it out there so people are gonna comment on it
n e way, I read an issue of All-New Atom from the Convergence sale. I had no idea John Byrne was still drawing for DC into the 2000s. i thought he'd burned his bridges by this point in time. it's not strong work from him IMO but i guess it's better than some of the run-of-the mill dudes that were drawing for them at the time. I think i'll grab a few more
Amazon's down to 92 dollars with Prime shipping. I was skeptical but I'm 2 for 2 on them not fucking up my statues in transit.
he's either seeking negative attention or grandstanding to gross people, more likely both. like, how's your life dude.
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
I got the Harley one and the Nightwing Oracle one. They didnt have any Batgirls. Im still looking for a shop here to stay at. One i went to was charging like seven bucks for the movie covers. Blah to that place. The one i went to today was really tiny and he had star trek things hanging. And a pee wee playhouse display Was a cool place but its kinda far.
I wanted the Flash one too but i don't trust it. I dont trust any of them.
I wanted the Flash one too but i don't trust it. I dont trust any of them.
my name is ed
Banned
I was actually completely fine with that cover. It's basically exactly what you'd expect from Manara. If you can find my posts from that thread you'll see me defending the piece itself but I could see why some were upset.
In my words, I'd say people were upset at the fact that Manara was hired for a cover of a book that was supposed to be targeted to women. Of course Manara, like many erotic artists, have many female fans. For many, it was like saying 'your female superheroes will never stop being sexualized but buy this anyway we swear it's just the thing for you!'
Which brings up something, when Manara heard about how some were reacting to his piece, he simply put out a sketch of the piece from another angle to clarify the position spider woman was in and asked that be taken into consideration when discussing the cover.
Manara was unlikely to have thought the piece was going to have such a reception.
Frank Cho decides to do a 2nd piece related to that cover with Spider Gwen and a pervy Spider-Man. Some got upset. Rather than try to empathize or engage thoughtfully with whoever may have been upset, his response was basically here let me do it again!
He's an ass. Fuck him
my name is ed
Banned
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Frank Cho sucks? Isn't the guy like a master on female anatomy? He always releases those "How to draw girls" books.
I think it's a common thing among independent artists like Cho where their not being confined to corporate like Marvel and DC so it's a anything goes. Artists like to watch each other's backs.
I think it's a common thing among independent artists like Cho where their not being confined to corporate like Marvel and DC so it's a anything goes. Artists like to watch each other's backs.
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
Aw crap I didn't know there was a Question book.
Nobody is saying his art sucks.
GrandHarrier
Member
...how do you ball your fist? because there are three fingers pointing up, not at me
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I have no interest in censoring him. The whole beauty of freedom is speech is he can do that and I can say "What a dick move."
Not "What an unconstitutional move."
TetraxShards
Member
"I won't work for your company and I hate everything you stand for, but I'm happy to charge $stupid for commissions of your copyrighted characters in inappropriate situations."
His art is far from bad, apart from the fact that he is in the late stages of Phil Noto Syndrome where all his women look the same. Not a bad thing, I just remember finding it very distracting in Mighty Avengers. He is also Madureira-and-Aja-tier at keeping a schedule. I understand art is hard, and books are late all the time (LOOK AT MY AVATAR THAT BOOK IS THE DEFINITION OF SCHEDULE SLIP) but he is consistently very late.
Bingo.
Freezasaurus
Member
I think Manara gets a bad rap for being a pervy artist. He draws very sexualized pieces, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's his niche, and that's what people expect from him. Given Marvel's intentions with Spider-Woman, they maybe miscalculated. But I don't think Manara is at fault here. Not at all. He does plenty of pieces that are sexy, yet not lewd at all. His Captain Marvel and Wasp pieces being good examples:
On the other hand, females and female characters in general will never stop being sexualized. It's time to admit it. Corporations know that there's a clear link between sex and $$$$$. So good fucking luck getting them to stop doing it. I'm not condoning it, but that's the world we live in right now.
TetraxShards
Member
I'd be fine with this if some of them were sexualised and some of them weren't. Nobody is telling the artists to stop drawing pretty ladies. The problem is almost every female character is like this, and for many of them it is their defining characteristic.
It's a small industry. We need every reader we can get. We're all getting older
and attracting new, young and diverse readers is what's going to bring in the $$$ in the long term, and I don't think we can do that with images like the Spider-Woman cover, regardless of the artist's good intentions.
ANECDOTE WARNING. I have a friend from college who is a massive Harley Quinn fan. Funkos, almost every TPB ever printed, a couple of statues and a closet full of cosplays. But she was completely turned off from comics by the Death in the Family Suicide Squad issues. I think that's sad personally as there's lots of books she would enjoy.
my name is ed
Banned
Yup. Those pieces are great. I think Manara is a phenom artist. I have Memory in my living room so I can just look at his work from time to time and admire. His Gamora piece was dope too.
As for constant sexualization regardless of context, I think trying to get corporations to understand we dont want that is important and accepting things as they are is defeatism. We need variety. Not only do we need comics and superheroes that arent sexed up all the time, we also need comics and superheroes that show a variety of sexuality. Because thats who we are as a people, were varied perverts
GrandHarrier
Member
There are plenty of characters who arent sexualized. The real problem is that there are people who will attack any sexualization at all. You can't turn to them and say, hey, this is an instance where it's OK, this doesn't have to be for you just like the comics you like aren't for me.
Freezasaurus
Member
Milo Manara is going to do pieces in Milo Manara style. He doesn't own a monopoly on characters, so others are free to draw characters any way they please. Just don't expect it from Manara. Though I suspect he'd do it if you paid him enough.
But I'm curious as to what you consider a non-sexualized take on a female character. Okay, maybe the new Squirrel Girl. But what else? Most of them are drawn to be attractive in order to attract readers.
Okay, anyone with taste will tell you the Death of the Family issues of Suicide Squad were fucking shit, and should be rounded up and burned. It's unfortunate that they reflect back on the whole medium.
Also, based on that first sentence, I started to wonder if your college friend was Messi.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Not as bad as Brett Booth. I like his art but some of his females look like Wonder Girl.
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
Freezasaurus
Member
What I especially like about the Wasp piece is the curve of her form. It's really quite beautiful.
The Gamora piece was a definitely on the sexy side, but that WAS the costume she was wearing for a long time. He didn't embellish on anything, and didn't give her unnecessarily large bing-bongs.
We need variety. Not only do we need comics and superheroes that arent sexed up all the time, we also need comics and superheroes that show a variety of sexuality. Because thats who we are as a people, were varied perverts
This actually reminds me of something I read on Kotaku today.
Look at that. A wholesome Christian-themed manga character. And her name is Pyuuri-tan. Adorable.
I'm sure she'll be Rule 34'd in no-time, but still. She's not drawn to be remotely sexual.
Filthy Slug
Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
I saw a kid ogling the statue displays at my shop like a crazed badger and when his mom asked if he wanted to find the comics he said "I DON' CARE ABOUT COMICS!" I'm glad that comics-gaf's spirit follows everywhere I go.
hell yeah
Freezasaurus
Member
Was he looking at lewd statues?