save the money and just read vision instead.
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COMICS!!! |OT| December 2016. Motor Girl is my new Motor Crush
- Thread starter Messi
- Start date
save the money and just read vision instead.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
I have no idea but we sell a ton of her books at work.
Durrzerker
Banned
Already read it. I'm caught up on every other Marvel comic, this was the last one on my list.
it is confirmed for being cancelled, but if you want to go through it all do you.
echoshifting
Banned
Some of those numbers are very interesting. Especially the relaunched titles that did not surpass the second issue of their last volume, like Ultimates. And the books that did not benefit at all from CWII tie-ins and arguably suffered...this part we've known about for awhile but it's really something to see all the data together like this.
That's a huge shift in the way people buy Marvel comics. It was once commonly accepted that, for the big 2, a) events sell (obviously still true) b) event tie-ins can give books a boost and c) #1s sell. The latter two points seem to be changing dramatically. While some books with CWII tie-ins did get a boost, others continued on a normal downward trend or even took a hit and most ended up right where they started or lower by the time the tie-in wrapped. A shiny #1 did not help some books at all, like wow at that Ultimates relaunch.
I think Xavier is right in that their scorched earth tactics are largely to blame, especially all the damn events right on top of each other. But I do wonder if staying loyal to one family of titles so you can always pick up all of the tie-ins for the events is still a thing that people do. That was common practice in the '90s...so if that's true Marvel should be freaking out right now. That's not where they should aspire to be creatively and it's a path to financial doom.
Kinda blows mind that Marvel is letting OML die despite it being one of the most stable solo titles in their entire line. Maybe Lemire doesn't want to do it anymore...if that's the case you find someone else to fucking do it. That's how it's always been done and I don't get why they've stopped doing it. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't but you gotta give it a shot at least.
On the more ordinary side of things, there are the always frustrating cases of fresh ideas and characters doing poorly, and the legit depressing spread between, say, Sam and Steve, like even with that huge blowup over the first issue of Steve Rogers that book is doing much better than Sam Wilson which is easily the better Cap book. But there are a few bright spots here and there, I'm pleased with how Moon Knight is doing, and DoX doing well despite being agonizingly terrible gives me hope they won't keep Scott and Emma off the board for very long
In general though it's obvious Marvel has lost a lot of trust and is leaning on talent readers don't actually care about that much, like Waid and, sorry to say, Ewing.
I hate to say it, a lot of good things have happened under his watch, but it might be time for Alonso to go. It might be time for new leadership.
That's a huge shift in the way people buy Marvel comics. It was once commonly accepted that, for the big 2, a) events sell (obviously still true) b) event tie-ins can give books a boost and c) #1s sell. The latter two points seem to be changing dramatically. While some books with CWII tie-ins did get a boost, others continued on a normal downward trend or even took a hit and most ended up right where they started or lower by the time the tie-in wrapped. A shiny #1 did not help some books at all, like wow at that Ultimates relaunch.
I think Xavier is right in that their scorched earth tactics are largely to blame, especially all the damn events right on top of each other. But I do wonder if staying loyal to one family of titles so you can always pick up all of the tie-ins for the events is still a thing that people do. That was common practice in the '90s...so if that's true Marvel should be freaking out right now. That's not where they should aspire to be creatively and it's a path to financial doom.
Kinda blows mind that Marvel is letting OML die despite it being one of the most stable solo titles in their entire line. Maybe Lemire doesn't want to do it anymore...if that's the case you find someone else to fucking do it. That's how it's always been done and I don't get why they've stopped doing it. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't but you gotta give it a shot at least.
On the more ordinary side of things, there are the always frustrating cases of fresh ideas and characters doing poorly, and the legit depressing spread between, say, Sam and Steve, like even with that huge blowup over the first issue of Steve Rogers that book is doing much better than Sam Wilson which is easily the better Cap book. But there are a few bright spots here and there, I'm pleased with how Moon Knight is doing, and DoX doing well despite being agonizingly terrible gives me hope they won't keep Scott and Emma off the board for very long
In general though it's obvious Marvel has lost a lot of trust and is leaning on talent readers don't actually care about that much, like Waid and, sorry to say, Ewing.
I hate to say it, a lot of good things have happened under his watch, but it might be time for Alonso to go. It might be time for new leadership.
Some of those numbers are very interesting. Especially the relaunched titles that did not surpass the second issue of their last volume, like Ultimates. And the books that did not benefit at all from CWII tie-ins and arguably suffered...this part we've known about for awhile but it's really something to see all the data together like this.
That's a huge shift in the way people buy Marvel comics. It was once commonly accepted that, for the big 2, a) events sell (obviously still true) b) event tie-ins can give books a boost and c) #1s sell. The latter two points seem to be changing dramatically. While some books with CWII tie-ins did get a boost, others continued on a normal downward trend or even took a hit and most ended up right where they started or lower by the time the tie-in wrapped. A shiny #1 did not help some books at all, like wow at that Ultimates relaunch.
I think Xavier is right in that their scorched earth tactics are largely to blame, especially all the damn events right on top of each other. But I do wonder if staying loyal to one family of titles so you can always pick up all of the tie-ins for the events is still a thing that people do. That was common practice in the '90s...so if that's true Marvel should be freaking out right now
Kinda blows mind that Marvel is letting OML die despite it being one of the most stable solo titles in their entire line. Maybe Lemire doesn't want to do it anymore...if that's the case you find someone else to fucking do it. That's how it's always been done and I don't get why they've stopped doing it. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't but you gotta give it a shot at least.
On the more ordinary side of things, there are the always frustrating cases of fresh ideas and characters doing poorly, and the legit depressing spread between, say, Sam and Steve, like even with that huge blowup over the first issue of Steve Rogers that book is doing much better than Sam Wilson which is easily the better Cap book. But there are a few bright spots here and there, I'm pleased with how Moon Knight is doing DoX doing well despite being agonizingly terrible gives me hope they won't keep Scott and Emma off the board for very long
In general though it's obvious Marvel has lost a lot of trust and is leaning on talent readers don't actually care about that much, like Waid and, sorry to say, Ewing.
I hate to say it, a lot of good things have happened under his watch, but it might be time for Alonso to go. It might be time for new leadership.
easily? woah now. and this is coming from a huge fan of the book.
but yea, we knew the marvel relaunch wasn't as successful as Marvel thought it would be but it is quite interesting to see actual numbers and drops offs.
echoshifting
Banned
Steve Rogers is a fascinating character study but almost nothing has happened in seven issues. Plotting, plotting, more plotting. I'm enjoying it but I don't think it's anywhere near as good as Sam Wilson which is grappling with current events and societal issues on the regular and has a more forward-moving plot.
Even if they are roughly the same, which is an opinion I respect and understand, the difference in sales numbers is still sad to see.
LordOfLore
Banned
So with Uncanny Inhumans being cancelled in favor of Royals and Black Bolt, will Soule do some other Marvel book or is he gone for now?
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
im reading wonder woman by rucka and scott now
... well, only at issue #2, and i have to say i love nicola scott's art so much
very lovely * ___ *
... well, only at issue #2, and i have to say i love nicola scott's art so much
very lovely * ___ *
true. and I already expected rogers to cut into wilson's sales. world's greatest hero now evil has quite a lure to it.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
I can't in good conscience recommend any of those Image titles. So I'll say Manifest Destiny, Birthright, and Rumble.
echoshifting
Banned
Now you know why marvel are obsessed with event books. Casuals don't drop them.
You shitting on Death Vigil? I will stab you
Freezasaurus
Member
God damn, Messi gets violent when people talk shit about Sejic books.
which is so crazy to me. why read events about characters you aren't reading about!
although BK did recommend the most obscene image titles, Huck is good shit. it is a mini though that might get a sequel later. kinda like luther strode in a sense(not plot wise)
Serpentine
Banned
didn't even know that Dr. Strange and the SS book came out. No feelings about Dr Strange but i do love Javier Rodriguez
That's good to hear, hopefully you get it all relatively soon. I don't think I have the patience for that kind of thing even if the end product is great.
While it can help, I really don't think the writer name on the book matters too much to the average comic book reader as long as the book isn't trash. People just want the old characters to be in the forefront among other things.Some of those numbers are very interesting. Especially the relaunched titles that did not surpass the second issue of their last volume, like Ultimates. And the books that did not benefit at all from CWII tie-ins and arguably suffered...this part we've known about for awhile but it's really something to see all the data together like this.
That's a huge shift in the way people buy Marvel comics. It was once commonly accepted that, for the big 2, a) events sell (obviously still true) b) event tie-ins can give books a boost and c) #1s sell. The latter two points seem to be changing dramatically. While some books with CWII tie-ins did get a boost, others continued on a normal downward trend or even took a hit and most ended up right where they started or lower by the time the tie-in wrapped. A shiny #1 did not help some books at all, like wow at that Ultimates relaunch.
I think Xavier is right in that their scorched earth tactics are largely to blame, especially all the damn events right on top of each other. But I do wonder if staying loyal to one family of titles so you can always pick up all of the tie-ins for the events is still a thing that people do. That was common practice in the '90s...so if that's true Marvel should be freaking out right now. That's not where they should aspire to be creatively and it's a path to financial doom.
Kinda blows mind that Marvel is letting OML die despite it being one of the most stable solo titles in their entire line. Maybe Lemire doesn't want to do it anymore...if that's the case you find someone else to fucking do it. That's how it's always been done and I don't get why they've stopped doing it. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't but you gotta give it a shot at least.
On the more ordinary side of things, there are the always frustrating cases of fresh ideas and characters doing poorly, and the legit depressing spread between, say, Sam and Steve, like even with that huge blowup over the first issue of Steve Rogers that book is doing much better than Sam Wilson which is easily the better Cap book. But there are a few bright spots here and there, I'm pleased with how Moon Knight is doing, and DoX doing well despite being agonizingly terrible gives me hope they won't keep Scott and Emma off the board for very long
In general though it's obvious Marvel has lost a lot of trust and is leaning on talent readers don't actually care about that much, like Waid and, sorry to say, Ewing.
I hate to say it, a lot of good things have happened under his watch, but it might be time for Alonso to go. It might be time for new leadership.
You do realize that he's writing Daredevil, Poe Dameron, and IvX, right?
BKatastrophe
Member
IvX is limited, and I'd assume Poe is as well. I suppose the big question is how long his DD run will go? People were super down on it at the start, but apparently this new arc is pretty sick
Poe Dameron is an ongoing and Daredevil will probably stick around until he's done with whatever story he wants to tell.
I'm only stuck to it because I'm a Wanda mark.
I think Axel pushed to hard on diversity and younger gen and it's ultimately backfiring. You can have the young guard but when you start killing off heroes to make way for them, you burn off the people you want to stick with and see why the new kid deserves that push.
Ms Marvel and Nova are examples of it succeeding. Yeah, Sam started out as a Gary Stu but once Duggan and Ryan got their hands on him, he wasn't a complete tool.
Silk is basically Spider Girl 5 but has carved out a niche for herself.
I'm not saying stoping pandering to the assholes/old assholes or the diversity/Tumblr people but have a balance.
And then, the events, there's a reason 2008-2014, the events weren't stacked like a Arbys sandwich, they had a balance. Sure some missed the mark but the tie in ratio was either low or had their own minis. Then Secret Wars stopped the momentum and CW2 decided every book had to at least have one tie in.
Axel I think deserves that flak and I think it's time he needs to go. Will we stop seeing diversity pushed and everything goes back to the same shit after he leaves? Who knows? I think Brevoort might take the reigns if the shit goes down.
I'm only stuck to it because I'm a Wanda mark.
I think Axel pushed to hard on diversity and younger gen and it's ultimately backfiring. You can have the young guard but when you start killing off heroes to make way for them, you burn off the people you want to stick with and see why the new kid deserves that push.
Ms Marvel and Nova are examples of it succeeding. Yeah, Sam started out as a Gary Stu but once Duggan and Ryan got their hands on him, he wasn't a complete tool.
Silk is basically Spider Girl 5 but has carved out a niche for herself.
I'm not saying stoping pandering to the assholes/old assholes or the diversity/Tumblr people but have a balance.
And then, the events, there's a reason 2008-2014, the events weren't stacked like a Arbys sandwich, they had a balance. Sure some missed the mark but the tie in ratio was either low or had their own minis. Then Secret Wars stopped the momentum and CW2 decided every book had to at least have one tie in.
Axel I think deserves that flak and I think it's time he needs to go. Will we stop seeing diversity pushed and everything goes back to the same shit after he leaves? Who knows? I think Brevoort might take the reigns if the shit goes down.
amazing
Future Foundation
Member
Champions was the one with the Scholastic tie-in correct? That would explain the insane drop. But what happened to Sorcerers Supreme?
First real bad experience for me. Has hurt my love of their work if I am honest. I almost don't care what I get now.
I've had some truly wonderful experiences with commissions though (Sejic, Elsa Charretier, Mirka Andolfo, Sanford Greene) so it's all good.
He's still under exclusive contract I think so he will probably have an unannounced book coming.
Bunn is writing that.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Keep in mind each issue is a different story.
Durrzerker
Banned
So, that's a no, then, since each issue spends 70% of the story on setting its resolution up, which itself seems lacking and dull. Which would work okay for a longer arc but not that format.
Alright, whatever. I'll power through it if it's ending soon.
Some of those numbers are very interesting. Especially the relaunched titles that did not surpass the second issue of their last volume, like Ultimates. And the books that did not benefit at all from CWII tie-ins and arguably suffered...this part we've known about for awhile but it's really something to see all the data together like this.
That's a huge shift in the way people buy Marvel comics. It was once commonly accepted that, for the big 2, a) events sell (obviously still true) b) event tie-ins can give books a boost and c) #1s sell. The latter two points seem to be changing dramatically. While some books with CWII tie-ins did get a boost, others continued on a normal downward trend or even took a hit and most ended up right where they started or lower by the time the tie-in wrapped. A shiny #1 did not help some books at all, like wow at that Ultimates relaunch.
I think Xavier is right in that their scorched earth tactics are largely to blame, especially all the damn events right on top of each other. But I do wonder if staying loyal to one family of titles so you can always pick up all of the tie-ins for the events is still a thing that people do. That was common practice in the '90s...so if that's true Marvel should be freaking out right now. That's not where they should aspire to be creatively and it's a path to financial doom.
Kinda blows mind that Marvel is letting OML die despite it being one of the most stable solo titles in their entire line. Maybe Lemire doesn't want to do it anymore...if that's the case you find someone else to fucking do it. That's how it's always been done and I don't get why they've stopped doing it. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't but you gotta give it a shot at least.
On the more ordinary side of things, there are the always frustrating cases of fresh ideas and characters doing poorly, and the legit depressing spread between, say, Sam and Steve, like even with that huge blowup over the first issue of Steve Rogers that book is doing much better than Sam Wilson which is easily the better Cap book. But there are a few bright spots here and there, I'm pleased with how Moon Knight is doing, and DoX doing well despite being agonizingly terrible gives me hope they won't keep Scott and Emma off the board for very long
In general though it's obvious Marvel has lost a lot of trust and is leaning on talent readers don't actually care about that much, like Waid and, sorry to say, Ewing.
I hate to say it, a lot of good things have happened under his watch, but it might be time for Alonso to go. It might be time for new leadership.
Good points. It isn't too surprising that the impact of #1 means less when a company rarely gets any title up to #25 or so. #1 means very little anywhere, but with Marvel in particular it seems like they keep going to that well so often that it's going to start producing less and less each time.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Some of them I just haven't read. Death Vigil being one of those.
BKatastrophe
Member
Hawkeye #1
Pretty good start. Even though the book makes a joke about superhero PIs being all the rage, I'm totally okay with this book to contrast Jessica Jones. I'm familiar enough with Kate, but this will be my first ongoing with her in it and so far it's pretty fun. I like the targeting reticles used to point out important stuff, as it does a lot to not only help distinguish things visually, but to give us insight into the character: she's an archer and a PI, both things requiring high levels of focus and visual awareness and acuteness. It's a nice touch that I really enjoy. Also this book has the best opening recap page styles ever.
I'll definitely give this book a second issue. I'm a sucker for
Pretty good start. Even though the book makes a joke about superhero PIs being all the rage, I'm totally okay with this book to contrast Jessica Jones. I'm familiar enough with Kate, but this will be my first ongoing with her in it and so far it's pretty fun. I like the targeting reticles used to point out important stuff, as it does a lot to not only help distinguish things visually, but to give us insight into the character: she's an archer and a PI, both things requiring high levels of focus and visual awareness and acuteness. It's a nice touch that I really enjoy. Also this book has the best opening recap page styles ever.
I'll definitely give this book a second issue. I'm a sucker for
a good old fashioned stalker plot, and I really enjoyed the stealth To Be Continued on the last page.
He'll be the Dan Slott of Daredevil
I can imagine it's quite a knock on the experience but as you say you've had a lot of good as well. I've seen what you have posted before and you have some lovely pieces.
One more try on this, but I guess I can just make a thread in the general off-topic informing about the sale and then just asking what of the rest of that stuff is good. Since for whatever reason there seem to be a good number of people who are knowledgeable about comics and will often post in such things, but never seem to pop up in this thread.
Also, catching up on my comics I bought, I read through what's out of the new Teen Titans, Raven, and Venom series, and each one taught me something that I realized I never questioned before but totally didn't know. That being that Raven is a hero name and she has an actual name (Rachel Roth), that Beast Boy has a very weird origin, and that the symbiote species actually has a name other than "symbiote". Also, never thought I'd feel bad for the Venom symbiote, but yeeeeah, that was kind of tragic
seeing it be all "man, we were a real awesome good guy, think of how much we can help people!" and the new host just dragging it back down to how it was used in the past.
Roland_Gunner
Member
Looking through the March solicits and DC gets some Rocafort time and they use him to pump up Red Hood and Outlaws? Amazing. Matias Bergara drawing Supergirl should be the good kind of amazing though.
Well Rocafort has drawn Red Hood and the Outlaws before.
DC solicits for March - http://www.cbr.com/dc-comics-march-2017-solicitations/
JRJR doing a stint on Suicide Squad.
JRJR doing a stint on Suicide Squad.
Rocafort has collabed with Lobdel many times before on different titles so I see why.
Dude worked on Red Hood with lobdell for a good portion of his run, than did Superman with him.
Freezasaurus
Member
I.....WAT
La Maquinon
Member
From Boom, I recommend Jonesy. It started as a mini but was promoted to ongoing. Funny, all-ages title about a teenager with the power to make others fall in love.
It's based on Harley Quinns cover for her first ongoing series
choaffable
Member
You're not the only one that thinks this. It's a common refrain on the internet, but it just doesn't make sense to me. This argument conflates diversity with "not-the-status-quo." In your example, you cited Nova Sam, who last I checked, was still a hetero white dude. Marvel's "problem" is not "pushing too hard on diversity." It gets them great mainstream press and could potentially attract new readers. Unfortunately, Marvel just pisses that all away once people pick up the book.
Marvel's method for launching books is spinning them out of crossovers, which is so counter to bringing in new readers. So even if you were interested in a new book, the fact that it starts smack dab in a crossover of other characters would scare you off. Like Spider-Woman's first issue starting right in the middle of Spider-verse. That did the book dirty, because the actual first issue, the issue that serves as a pilot for the actual themes of the book is Spider-Woman #5. These new books aren't given the chance to establish their own voices or themes, shortchanged for the quick crossover buck.
Legacy heroes are my jam! It's what made the DCU so great in the '90s. And for Marvel, it's a great way to squeeze new stories out of old IP. I mean, how many more sad Bruce Banner sad because he's an angry monster stories do we really need? A new group of young heroes from diverse backgrounds taking up the names of older heroes opens up new stories.
And before anybody else says, "But as minorities, wouldn't you rather have your own heroes?" Naw. We're here to take your spouses, jobs and now superheroes.
Same is actually a mixed Caucasian/Latino. Loveness is the first one in awhile to establish he has a Latino mother.
Ms. Marvel spun out of Infinity
Sam spun out of AvX
Miles kinda spun out out solo but it took a whole event for him to 616
Jane Thor spun off of Sin.
You maybe on to something.
Marvel spins the characters out of other books because it brings more attention to them from fans and even then we have examples like Mosaic. Right now there are people complaining about the more familiar characters taking a backseat and the legacy versions aren't as popular for various reasons.
echoshifting
Banned
I think having a legacy character appear in an event, even having the origin take place within the event (nine out of every ten #1s are better off skipping it anyway), does get everyone's eyes on that character. And that doesn't mean the event becomes a crucial part of the story. You can go into the first Sam Nova series or Ms. Marvel #1 and you don't really need the event to enjoy them. The one that relies on it the most is Thor, but the pertinent part of the event is literally a single page, you don't need to read all of Original Sin to understand what has happened.
SamCap did not spawn from an event iirc. Steve was aged in his own series and Sam took up the mantle then.
I mean SamNova's role in AvX is crashing to Earth at the very beginning and warning everyone the Phoenix is coming. End. It has no bearing on his solo title.
SamCap did not spawn from an event iirc. Steve was aged in his own series and Sam took up the mantle then.
I mean SamNova's role in AvX is crashing to Earth at the very beginning and warning everyone the Phoenix is coming. End. It has no bearing on his solo title.