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COMICS!!! |OT| January 2017 This is the Dawning of the Age of Apocalypse
- Thread starter Messi
- Start date
my name is ed
Banned
The important thing to remember is that punching Nazis is just one part of a well rounded strategy.
Again, there is a track record here. We have tried multiple times, in multiple countries, to talk to fascists. The thought of peaceful resistance against nazis and fuckers of their ilk is not new or original. Talking to nazis, normalizing them, treating them like any other player in politics has been done, and it has never worked. Not once. Not ever.
What works is showing that nazis will not be tolerated, ever, in any circumstances. What works is making nazis afraid. What works is fighting nazis wherever they are, in whatever way we can, and sometimes that means cleaning Richard Spencer's clock.
What works is showing that nazis will not be tolerated, ever, in any circumstances. What works is making nazis afraid. What works is fighting nazis wherever they are, in whatever way we can, and sometimes that means cleaning Richard Spencer's clock.
Its always like that. The left needs to be nice while the right can throw hand granades at refugee housings and can get away with it. It makes me so sick that we, the resonable people have to be nice and open for a dialogue while the other ones can get away with everything and can be rude.
I am so afraid what will happen in the next few years.
I am so afraid what will happen in the next few years.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Okay, so, it's like this.
The human brain is fundamentally flawed. We are messy, disorganized creatures at heart. As such, there are a number of entirely garbage philosophies that, if presented to society as a whole, will always find a home in at least some hearts and minds. Once they've taken root anywhere, they spread through a number of means; first redirected angst, then social pressure inside of subgroups, and finally normalization, e.g. "sure, it sounded abhorrent at first, but then it entered political discourse alongside everything else so it can't be that bad." See also, "yeah, it sounds bad, but I haven't seen any proof myself and I really don't want to rock the boat" and other excuses for putting up with genocide. There is nothing that can be done about this. Fascists have, traditionally, been extremely adept at manipulating systems designed to give nonproportional representation for whatever reason (see: the Nazis gaining control of their government with less than 40% of the vote). Not much we can do about that either at this juncture, though it should definitely be on the agenda moving forward.
As such, we are left with 2 conclusions: our system is vulnerable to fascist takeover, and fascists will always spread themselves and their horrifying beliefs if given a platform. Once they have control of our systems, they do stuff like send me and my family to a camp. Probably a bunch of other people you know too. Worth keeping in mind.
It's that second bit about "if they have a platform" that the punching can help with. By making it extremely clear that attempting to spread their abhorrent beliefs in public will have Consequences, you can discourage the more weak-willed from signing off on it where other people can see. As they become progressively silenced, they become progressively less normalized, until finally they end up back on the fringe where they can be contained. If there were less violent ways of denying them a platform like in Germany, I would happily sign off on that, but until such a thing presents itself as a real option in the States, I'm comfortable with the punching.
Also, 2 notes about the "resisting makes them sympathetic" thing. Firstly, if someone sees somebody spewing Richard Spencer's style of hate and goes "hmm, I really disagreed with this, but then he got punched and it made me wonder if there's not something to it" then they didn't really disagree with it to begin with or else they'd be cheering. Second, I'm not seeing any actual evidence that such a thing even happens. I look on Twitter, and the reaction seems to be a more or less unanimous "GSO Spencer" from basically everybody who knows who the guy is and isn't already a Nazi or Nazi sympathizer, or else of the class of people who are more concerned with method policing than advancing progressive causes, and even that last group is more "hmm, I don't like him but don't punch him." I don't think I've seen anybody make the leap from anti-Nazi to pro-Nazi because of the punching, and I'd like to see some evidence that such a group even exists.
ed: and sorry for taking up space in the comics thread but this shit is important so if y'all could put up with it for a minute it'd be appreciated.
Durrzerker
Banned
I wanna keep my promise to not derail the thread talking about this any further, but I appreciate the detailed and serious post, Poodlestrike, and will think on it heavily. Not many people would have put such a sincere explanation forward, so thank you.
Poodlestrike
Banned
No problem, m8.
Serpentine
Banned
yea it really is
echoshifting
Banned
Excellent post poodle. Sums up my thoughts quite nicely.
I don't see why we shouldn't talk about this. Unlike a lot of other shit we talk about in here, this topic is certainly relevant to comics, as all social issues are. I mean we have the writer of Captain America on twitter telling people it's not okay to punch nazis.
I don't see why we shouldn't talk about this. Unlike a lot of other shit we talk about in here, this topic is certainly relevant to comics, as all social issues are. I mean we have the writer of Captain America on twitter telling people it's not okay to punch nazis.
yea. considering Nick spencer is behind that tweet, and then the books he is writing.
We are clearly getting a little off track, but the topic is right for this thread.
Nice post, Poodlestrike. I personally believe in no violence at all however.
I wonder how King Jack Kirby, a man who fought the Nazis overseas for his country and gave readers true art, would feel about the world today. He would probably be disgusted to see what has happened but also inspired to keep speaking out.
I wonder how King Jack Kirby, a man who fought the Nazis overseas for his country and gave readers true art, would feel about the world today. He would probably be disgusted to see what has happened but also inspired to keep speaking out.
Captain America actually shares a similar view to Spencer going by past history, which he brought up on twitter. I don't think it makes sense to use comics, as evidence on either side though.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Didn't he bodily toss out a couple of America Firsters who showed up at the Marvel offices to complain about Cap?
Heh, I never heard about that story. It wasn't in the Marvel Comics Untold Story book.
Durrzerker
Banned
my name is ed
Banned
Let us all remember King Kirby was ready to throw down with white supremacists when he took heat for that famous Captain America cover.
God bless that man
Typically the higher a book opens, the bigger the drop. The book underperformed though.
Scholastic numbers aren't tracked.
New #1's excite people and bring in casual readers. Also, when you see these HUGE numbers it can also be because of subscription boxes. I believe Champions #1 was in the October Marvel Collector Corp box.
I'm not religious but amen brother.
LordOfLore
Banned
They bought the first issue from Diamond. They didn't buy any other #1 from Marvel and instead are waiting for the trades for those. But they had the largest order to Diamond bar none and a unique variant cover.
Comichron actually said they weren't counted on the chart, which is probably why their number is in the low 300k range.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Ever since I found out you liked Red Hood and the Outlaws I knew you were good people.
LordOfLore
Banned
BC: Tweets and photos from the marches by comic people. Missing a few like Tynion IV but that's to be expected when it's the largest protest in the history of the US. The ones on the cruise like Simone and Snyder are supporting it from afar.
Why did I read the comments?
TetraxShards
Member
This is the first weekend I've had off since before Christmas and I really want to play something, but nothing's really tickling my fancy.
The Marvel Heroes update being so awful has me searching for a new game I can play long-term. I'm strongly thinking about going back to Path of Exile.
TetraxShards
Member
Finally got around to Power Rangers #11. I'd read about Lord Drakkon's identity, but the other stuff in the issue.....
Yo.
YO.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Fantastic issue again. Can't wait for more.
Yo.
YO.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
The Thunderzords! AND MOTHERFUCKING SABA!
Fantastic issue again. Can't wait for more.
So anyway, comics are pretty great.
Reading Superman Up Up and Away trade paperback and it's really good. I'm liking it a lot. Its co-written by Geoff Johns and comes right before Johns Action Comics run and Busiek's Superman run.
Starman continues to be incredible. I desperately want two or three real oversized omnis instead of the 400-500 page glued binding standard-sized hardcovers we have now. It's great material for a re-read but I have vol 1 and 2 in paperback, vol 3 in digital, and vol 4, 5, and 6 in hardcover. It's not ideal.
Looking forward to picking up the deluxe edition in August or July or whenever it comes out.
Reading Superman Up Up and Away trade paperback and it's really good. I'm liking it a lot. Its co-written by Geoff Johns and comes right before Johns Action Comics run and Busiek's Superman run.
Starman continues to be incredible. I desperately want two or three real oversized omnis instead of the 400-500 page glued binding standard-sized hardcovers we have now. It's great material for a re-read but I have vol 1 and 2 in paperback, vol 3 in digital, and vol 4, 5, and 6 in hardcover. It's not ideal.
Looking forward to picking up the deluxe edition in August or July or whenever it comes out.
You want to read the 90s Vertigo edition, but unfortunately the whole run was never collected in trade. Thankfully comixology has the entire run available in single issues.
So some of the Rebirth stories (that arent superman or batman) are worth reading? I havent touched any since the flash and Greens #1s
Tyrant Rave
Banned
You want the Vertigo run. It's amazing.
Memento Mori
Member
Amazon claims volume 4 is being reprinted in paperback in July but that seems unlikely when DC didn't reprint volume 3.
Yeah. I liked it. I didn't love the art in this issue, but otherwise it was very good. Aquaman has been pretty solid since Rebirth started. Not great for me, but consistently good.
TetraxShards
Member
The Green Lanterns issue that dealt with anxiety was really good. Exactly what I needed at the moment. Surprised Humphries had it in to write something like that.
Humphries also deals with anxiety so this was personal.
my name is ed
Banned
Here's an excerpt talking about King Kirby ready to throw down with Nazis
https://twitter.com/katewillaert/status/822941824889356289
https://twitter.com/katewillaert/status/822941824889356289
When Arthur drops the call me Majesty line I lost it. This is pretty much what I want from inhumans.
TetraxShards
Member
I mean, I'd believe it. I don't follow the charts much these days because digital and sub boxes have taken a lot of the meaning out of it, but if you factored in trades and stuff I'd be inclined to agree with it. Walking Dead TPBs alone are still strong sellers. The Compendiums are never out of print it feels like.
Man...that hits me hard. I would love to see Kirby throw down in defense of Marvel writers on Twitter. The man was legit.
I'm going to go read his run on FF again in tribute I think. I still need to pick up his work at DC sometime too.
Fairly sure all of walking deads formats except the library style ones have been kept in print.
Poodlestrike
Banned
All Hail the King.