not really. there are essential stories to characters that need to be read, but other than that theres a lot that doesnt require reading. id advise someone to read priests work on panther if they want a feel for them, while telling you to ignore the hudlin stuff, and im sure than can be said by anyone with favorite characters
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COMICS! |OT| May 2013. Nothing says "love you Mom" like a thick Man-Thing... Omnibus.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
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not really. there are essential stories to characters that need to be read, but other than that theres a lot that doesnt require reading. id advise someone to read priests work on panther if they want a feel for them, while telling you to ignore the hudlin stuff, and im sure than can be said by anyone with favorite characters
Who thought that was a good idea anyway? Dude must have the most epic blackmail material ever.
I'm kind of with you... I've been pretty disappointed in it, except my reason for sticking with it is I'm afraid of missing something awesome happening in a later issue.
Freezasaurus
Member
That's the only reason I bother these event books anymore. And Marvel knows it. :/
I just really hate all he multiple universe bullshit that both Marvel and DC do. It feels worse with DC, though. It feels like it is to the point where issue and character might as well be set in their own universe, so anything that doesn't add up is because it happened in a different universe.
I skipped Age of Ultron and don't have too many regrets, but events are hard to pass up because they typically effect the Marvel books i do read. Since i order from dcbs i'm always behind on message board discussion anyways XO
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
Batgirl #20
Nightwing #20
Supergirl #20
FF#7
X-Factor #256
That's a win week right there.
Nightwing #20
Supergirl #20
FF#7
X-Factor #256
That's a win week right there.
GrandHarrier
Member
Event books sell.
This is obvious of course but it's one of the few ways to get people to check out the tie in books they don't normally get.
I wish DC was more aggressive with the events and crossovers.
Justice_dp
Member
Doing what your editor tells you, doing fast rewrittes and no complains when asked to abandon long term storylines or change them to fit in with the lead writters ideas is why he is writting so many books for DC currently.
He is a good guy. He works hard and I think he must be frustrated that so many of his storylines are cut short or interruppted because of editorial mandate, but he does his job non the less.
And the things he does best - character building and dialogs - often work no matter how much his main storyline get's twisted.
I think he learned much about this specific writing style during his X-Men years at Marvel, because this was the time when Marvel was known for meddeling with storylines.
GrandHarrier
Member
For all the shit Lobdell gets, Red Hood and the Outlaws is really great. People should check it out. It gets way too much flak for that first issue.
slightconfuse
Banned
HE-man
Sword and Socery
Wonder woman
FF
X-factor
iron man
Sword and Socery
Wonder woman
FF
X-factor
iron man
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
That's kind of why, though I think it's fun as, I don't have much invested in Age of Ultron.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
I'm just getting Helheim this week. I don't even know if I want to continue reading it.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Final Crisis is beautiful and amazing.
creationtheory
Member
So Starlin is back at Marvel. I hope he's doing something with Warlock. His 'event' books have been pretty bad for a while but I think he could still do some decent stuff with Warlock.
BuddyJoeHooker
Member
Could this be the event that finally satisfies fans?
Yes. Yes it is.
re: Barbara
Comics tend to have a history of homogeneity (i.e. white dudes) and Barbara as Oracle was always one of things you could point to to say "hey! not all characters are like this!" Oracle was an important character that we didn't see a lot of in comics. The idea of that disabled heroes could still be... heroes is a pretty important one. Like, Marvel theoretically has two of the more prominent disabled heroes as well in Xavier and Daredevil but Xavier is always in a fluctuating state of walking/non-walking and Daredevil's superpower is essentially that he can see.
Oracle, partly due to being in the Batbooks, didn't have that luxury. The idea that she was in this magical realm where injuries can be magically fixed/where she could get robotic enhancements/where they could go back in time to make it never happen/etc, etc is absurd. That kind of thinking breaks the shared universe conceit of superhero comics - especially in the DCU where there's motherfucking Superman. Besides that though, what Oracle represented was always more important than the suspension of disbelief.
Anyways, with Batgirl, Cassandra was already gone and replaced with a generic blonde white girl and even though that was a pretty good comic, it exacerbated a lot of the rhetoric at the time for DC - that the resurgence of the "original" characters displaced more diverse characters. Having Barbara taking back the mantle is arguably the worst of it all because it takes away Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, and Oracle. In one fell swoop, you've gotten rid of a visible minority, someone who brought a lighter tone to the Batman books, and the most important disabled character in comics.
Comics tend to have a history of homogeneity (i.e. white dudes) and Barbara as Oracle was always one of things you could point to to say "hey! not all characters are like this!" Oracle was an important character that we didn't see a lot of in comics. The idea of that disabled heroes could still be... heroes is a pretty important one. Like, Marvel theoretically has two of the more prominent disabled heroes as well in Xavier and Daredevil but Xavier is always in a fluctuating state of walking/non-walking and Daredevil's superpower is essentially that he can see.
Oracle, partly due to being in the Batbooks, didn't have that luxury. The idea that she was in this magical realm where injuries can be magically fixed/where she could get robotic enhancements/where they could go back in time to make it never happen/etc, etc is absurd. That kind of thinking breaks the shared universe conceit of superhero comics - especially in the DCU where there's motherfucking Superman. Besides that though, what Oracle represented was always more important than the suspension of disbelief.
Anyways, with Batgirl, Cassandra was already gone and replaced with a generic blonde white girl and even though that was a pretty good comic, it exacerbated a lot of the rhetoric at the time for DC - that the resurgence of the "original" characters displaced more diverse characters. Having Barbara taking back the mantle is arguably the worst of it all because it takes away Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, and Oracle. In one fell swoop, you've gotten rid of a visible minority, someone who brought a lighter tone to the Batman books, and the most important disabled character in comics.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
it's not like there's any good BabsBatgirl stories besides Year One, unless I'm missing some major
Hickman's FF/Fantastic Four ending arc could have been an event for hype levels. This is the first event i'm actually excited for, last one was probably Final Crisis because of Morrison. I'm not excited at all about Trinity War on the other side Xo.
nah, I don't think so either. Year One is really good but the rest of it is forgettable. I like her in All Star Batman too, but that's cuz she rides a sweet as hell skateboard. Oracle on the other hand's got Suicide Squad and parts of BoP on her resume.
I hope he takes over Thunderbolts, goes "hmmm, that didn't quite work, did it?" after reading the Way issues and reboots everything.
I hope he takes over Thunderbolts, goes "hmmm, that didn't quite work, did it?" after reading the Way issues and reboots everything.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Light week for me, but meh
Fables #129
Batwoman #20
Supergirl #20
Fatales #14
Ultimate Comics Spider Man #23
X-Factor #256
Sword of Sorcery #8
Wonder Woman #20
And I agree Oracle Babs > Batgirl Babs. I'd much rather have Cassandra back.
Fables #129
Batwoman #20
Supergirl #20
Fatales #14
Ultimate Comics Spider Man #23
X-Factor #256
Sword of Sorcery #8
Wonder Woman #20
And I agree Oracle Babs > Batgirl Babs. I'd much rather have Cassandra back.
GrandHarrier
Member
Babs has the element of being the first Batgirl going for her. She is also way more "fun", to me. Cassandra and Stephanie are stranger cases.
Stephanie, for example, comes across as an extreme adrenaline junkie who can't stop herself, and even gives up her kid to be able to continue despite having a support mechanism in both herself and her own mother, whom she lives with.
Cassandra, I suppose, is a little more redeeming, but even she is way to grim-mega-dark-Assassin for my tastes though I suppose that is to be expected coming from her background.
For all the accusations that DC is too grimdark, you'd think someone fun loving like Babs would be appreciated.
Stephanie, for example, comes across as an extreme adrenaline junkie who can't stop herself, and even gives up her kid to be able to continue despite having a support mechanism in both herself and her own mother, whom she lives with.
Cassandra, I suppose, is a little more redeeming, but even she is way to grim-mega-dark-Assassin for my tastes though I suppose that is to be expected coming from her background.
For all the accusations that DC is too grimdark, you'd think someone fun loving like Babs would be appreciated.
slightconfuse
Banned
anyone donating to the lad sabre kickstarter.
thinking about dropping 30$ for the hardcover.
i trust rucka to deliver
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1319733363/lady-sabre-and-the-pirates-of-the-ineffable-aether
thinking about dropping 30$ for the hardcover.
i trust rucka to deliver
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1319733363/lady-sabre-and-the-pirates-of-the-ineffable-aether
I see your point. But I feel that Babs never really became interesting until she became Oracle. She fit this perfect niche in the DCU that nobody else really did. It tied her into everything.
But I suppose I am coloured by the fact that Babs was already Oracle when I started reading Batman comics.
Wow he has almost made 80k, and he only wanted 27.5!
Rucka is a bit of a legend though.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
slightconfuse
Banned
ith our heroes at the other end of the universe, who is left to protect Earth? Enter Thanos, the galaxy’s most ruthless threat and an unparalleled force of brutality who brings order to the chaos of life through murder. The greatest threat to the Mad Titan’s work—and perhaps the universe’s greatest hope—is something he created leaving no world safe. Earth’s last hope may lie in the hands of a man who can level cities with a single whisper – Black Bolt, king of the Inhumans. But can the fearsome leader of a race hated and feared by his world, lead his people against Thanos? If they fall, so does the Earth—and the entire universe with it.
THANOS VS BLACK BOLT!!!
PRAISED BE TO HICKMAN!!!!!!!
THANOS VS BLACK BOLT!!!
PRAISED BE TO HICKMAN!!!!!!!
Steph's ~TEEN PREGNANT~ story was hella dumb, tho. She's not an "adrenaline junky" - certainly not more than... any of these characters really. But in a way, she's kind of what Babs always should have been - and is, in Year One and All Star Batman - where she's a person who doesn't have the tragedy that informs Batman or Robin, and tries to do good anyways.
Cass is someone who had the Worst Childhood but her story is basically her moving away from that.
And man, I only read that first issue of Batgirl but that ends with a police officer going. "BATGIRL!! YOU PUSHED THAT MAN TO HIS DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM"
e: oh god what have i become i'm arguing batman comics on message boards
nope that's it. it's amazing how boring she is as batgirl.
Justice_dp
Member
The problem is - Babs as Batgirl is a very bland character and has been written way better over the last two decades, despite being in the hands of the VERY awesome Gail Simone, who wrote the definitive Oracle Babs.
And DC killed the very good Steph series for an average to below average Babs series, which was in NO way grim dark and not as generic as the current BG series.
DC is very much focusing on their "Superfriends"-characters after they ruined most legacy characters and many fans did not take this well (Connor Hawke, Wally West, Donna Troy --> Got marginalised before the reboot and now they do not exist anymore and characters like Kyle Rayner and Helena Bertinelli, as well as the Batgirls and several others got the short end of the deal).
I understand what they tried to do, but I don't think it works - not when you are known to place very much emphasis on legacies and the past, but very publicly retcon it again and again.
Marvel is much more elegant in the way they use their history - yes Ironman could have possibly had all those wacky adventures and got 3 new bodies and spent time on another planet and has lost at least ten companies, but as long as they don't reference it - and let's be honest, NO ONE WILL EVER AGAIN TRY TO USE TEEN TONY - it may as well not have happend to the current Ironman. Marvel uses "hypertime" without the need to introduce it with a complex crossover that involves alternate timelines and three reboots. DC puts so much emphasis on it's history and the rewritting of it, that fans will never stop complaining, because both the company and many many fans love the idea of ill specified "iconic" characters (man DO I HATE THIS TERM).
Brubaker, Ellis and Bendis rebooted the Avengers to suit their needs around 2004 when you want to put a finger on it - and did anyone really care and ran around crying that reboots suck? No, in most cases fans complained that character XYZ should not be an Avenger or something like that...
LTDR: DC put's to much emphasis on it's history and reboots, instead of giving good writers the chance to write good stories,
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
It's always hard for me to articulate why I appreciate Marvel's approach over DC's, and now I don't ever need to! Spot on, mayne!!!!!!!!!
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
What don't you like about it? I really, really love Joelle Jones art and colors. Not to mention the paper quality is great, not like Marvelthat uses recycled two ply toilet paper.
Rastafarian42
Member
I really hope so after Fear Itself I said fuck main-line events but this one has the art and story that just intrigues me.
GrandHarrier
Member
I wasn't saying Stephanie's series was grimdark. I was talking about Cassandra. I recently bought the Stephanie run to GET INSIDE YOUR MINDS AND UNDERSTAND YOU 
, because I had never read that particular run. She comes across as particularly adrenaline junkie, more so than anyone else, really. But that's just my impression, considering she is specifically going against both Batman and Oracle, at the time, telling her not to. But she neeeeeds it so bad. And it was weird having not a single reference to her kid. Not even like, a single wistful thought about it, it was like she dropped that shit cause it was crampin' her party (night) life and she was glad to be rid of it. Made her a little less of a "hero" in my mind.
Other than that, though, yeah the series was OK.
I think Babs from Batman:TAS is what especially colors me (besides Year One). Obviously not the same character. But I just love the energy. She has *fun* doing it, and did it not because she needed the fix, or to escape a dark past, but because she wanted to be a police officer, and her father didn't approve. So she did it to do follow her dream.
Whether that was boring or not. Obviously opinions. But that motivation and that energy was contagious. And I feel that the current Batgirl run, while having some low point issues, is net-positive on good vs. poor.
, because I had never read that particular run. She comes across as particularly adrenaline junkie, more so than anyone else, really. But that's just my impression, considering she is specifically going against both Batman and Oracle, at the time, telling her not to. But she neeeeeds it so bad. And it was weird having not a single reference to her kid. Not even like, a single wistful thought about it, it was like she dropped that shit cause it was crampin' her party (night) life and she was glad to be rid of it. Made her a little less of a "hero" in my mind.Other than that, though, yeah the series was OK.
I think Babs from Batman:TAS is what especially colors me (besides Year One). Obviously not the same character. But I just love the energy. She has *fun* doing it, and did it not because she needed the fix, or to escape a dark past, but because she wanted to be a police officer, and her father didn't approve. So she did it to do follow her dream.
Whether that was boring or not. Obviously opinions. But that motivation and that energy was contagious. And I feel that the current Batgirl run, while having some low point issues, is net-positive on good vs. poor.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
It's not that I don't like it. It is $3.99 and I was thinking of cutting it to save a little bit. I'll probably stick with it since it is halfway over I think.
Shin Johnpv
Member
It's not absurd though. Batman came back from having his back broken and it's like nothing happened, Hal and Superman both came back from the dead, besides tons of other characters doing the same. The amount of injuries that these characters take and eventually come back from is well beyond the realm of believable, and all of a sudden you're going to say she got shot in her spine and can NEVER BE HEALED, ever ever ever. Though we're going to do worse to other characters and they're going to be fine like nothing happened 10 issues later. It didn't work after 25 years of it. You can not tell me that none of her super hero friends, some of whom have come back from the fucking dead, could do anything to help her walk again. Now that, THAT is fucking absurd.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I dropped it after #1. Just wasn't feelin it.
Dial H and Demon Knights join the list of cancelled series come August. We also know that Threshold ends that month, too.
Full solicits should be out soon.
Full solicits should be out soon.
Speaking of paper, I really like the East of West paper. That rough, matte texture....so good.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Same here. I think the same is used for Manhattan Projects because the trade is similar. I love when companies use good paper like that, but Disney just wants to cut corners so they can afford Land and GuruFX salaries.
Sucks about Dial H. I wonder what launch cause, that would leave DC will only forty seven books.
Oh and LoSH was cancelled. Fuck you Paul Levitz, hang up the typewriter.
That kind of questioning just leads to really dumb stuff... why doesn't Batman just call his pals Superman or Flash any time he has a problem?? At the same time, that's a secondary concern. Oracle's role as the premiere handicapped character in the DCU justifies her continued existence, especially when there is no good reason to have her taking up the mantle again.
Yeah I think MP is the same too. Love those singles.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
It's not Dial H levels but it is really great. Best book not being talked about
Al these DC cancellations are getting me excited about Morbius eventual cancellation. Pointless and pathetic book.
slightconfuse
Banned
Might pick up the Dial H trade. really enjoyed the first few issues
I heard Marvel is optioning a Morbius movie tho, that brah ain't going anywhere.
Filthy Slug
Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
I knew it was too good and out-there to not get cancelled but damn, does that fucking suck. I hope China Mieville sticks around comics, though--dude's clearly got some great talent for comics writing.
- Status