Nah he'll be back.
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COMICS! |OT| May 2013. Nothing says "love you Mom" like a thick Man-Thing... Omnibus.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
- Start date
- Status
He comes back at #13, if memory serves me right. Someone will check the solicits and make me look stupid now.
Interesting. I've been wanting to get into the Nova Corps and all, so this may serve as a neat intro for me.
GrandHarrier
Member
I think that this is a byproduct of heroes existing in fantastical worlds. One begins to question things when one can save entire worlds with futuristic alien technologies or magics, but can't fix a broken spine.
(Incidently, Barbara was still paralyzed by Joker and spent some time with it. She just got better.)
I know. I'll especially mourn the loss of
Triplicate Girl and Polar Boy
Well she had a radically experimental surgery to fix it, it's not like she just woke up one morning and could move her legs.
GrandHarrier
Member
I'd be just fine if it was Kryptonian Healing Nanites. I think people should accept that it's a thing that will happen. And especially with Barbara, as she had a VERY long run with it.
I personally think that the notion of people with disabilities getting better shouldn't be seen as a bad thing. It's not the same thing as minority representation. We don't need minorities to "get better", but if the ability to grow new eyes and return sight to people suddenly existed IRL, tomorrow, people would herald it as a triumph of science. Apply the same notion to comics, and it's seen as insulting to blind people. It's this weird double edged standard.
At the same time we shouldn't just be hand waving disabilities away in comics just because. Unless it serves a greater story purpose just leave it be. It's a hard thing to deal with, I think something like Venom is doing a good job with that.
Escape Goat
Member
My grief isn't so much how they repaired her legs but that they eliminated her handicap entirely. Instead of having a character disabled readers can look at and say "Shes like me and shes contributing and kicking ass like anyone else." or "Xavier can't walk but hes the force that animates the X-Men."
It would be like making Storm white just because. Part of attracting readers is to create characters that many people can identify with.
It would be like making Storm white just because. Part of attracting readers is to create characters that many people can identify with.
Yea but they got Flash as Venom and he's way cooler.
GrandHarrier
Member
See, this is where I disagree. In real life we'd want to fix virtually any disability you can name. If a fix existed, it'd be considered a good thing, but blackness isn't something that needs to be fixed.
But I do agree. Just because one can expect people to want to get better is not a reason to hand wave all instances of disabilities away. But in the case of someone like Barbara, they gave it 25+ years. That's a long run.
P.S. I find it mildly amusing that getting better from dead is OK, but from a disability is not?
I think that one still kind of works because it's not a permanent thing? Unless they changed it recently, I mean. I stopped reading Venom a while ago.
Escape Goat
Member
See, this is where I disagree. In real life we'd want to fix virtually any disability you can name. If a fix existed, it'd be considered a good thing, but blackness isn't something that needs to be fixed.
But I do agree. Just because one can expect people to want to get better is not a reason to hand wave all instances of disabilities away. But in the case of someone like Barbara, they gave it 25+ years. That's a long run.
P.S. I find it mildly amusing that getting better from dead is OK, but from a disability is not?
A lot of people who are disabled don't see their disability as a negative. A deaf lesbian couple were adopting a baby and requested a deaf baby. Being deaf created a bond between them and it was something positive for them.
Dude has no legs, unless he's got the suit on. He turned down prosthetic legs a little while back, so unless he's out saving the day Flash is in the chair.
Rastafarian42
Member
Remender's run was soooo good, it was constantly better than ASM at that time and I hope it gets more recognition.
GrandHarrier
Member
Funny you link that. My on-again-off-again girlfriend is deaf. So I've had some interesting interactions with that community. To be fair she is more in the camp of "would use hearing aids that would work for her condition". (She is 95% deaf, from birth)
Damn, guess it's time to create some new Legionnaires.
GrandHarrier
Member
Well, If the idea is to trim the roster to make it more manageable, then creating new Legionaires doesn't help, especially since we had just recently got some new ones to replace the roles of the Legion Lost.
Or who knows maybe they start mostly fresh.
They could have two new members to fill out a team of seven, and then have a couple of reservists.
I'm trying to think of other classic members that would be unaccounted for and am drawing a blank.
Are any of the pre N52 Legion Academy kids still around?
GrandHarrier
Member
Heh, I think most of the Academy members either died or graduated. Glorith and Dragon wing are two of the most recent?
My personal seven would be Mon El, Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad, Brainiac 5, Glorith / White Witch (for the mystical member), and Dawnstar because I adore her. But if I could have 10, instead of 7, I'd add Timber Wolf, Gates, and Element Lad.
My personal seven would be Mon El, Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad, Brainiac 5, Glorith / White Witch (for the mystical member), and Dawnstar because I adore her. But if I could have 10, instead of 7, I'd add Timber Wolf, Gates, and Element Lad.
That's a good line up, totally forgot about White Witch. I'd also give Mon-El his Green Lantern ring back, I really liked GL Mon-El.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Do you call your friends for every little issue that comes up in your life? Do you have your co-workers help you with every single thing you do?
Keeping some one handicapped just to have some one handicapped around seems really demeaning to me. I'm not even saying after 25 years she had to take up the mantle again, but she should have been walking again. Her injuries epically PALE in comparison to those of the people around her but she has to stay the way she is because...reasons. I suppose it would be different if she had her fucking legs cut off, but the injury she sustained in the DC universe wasn't a never walk again injury. Leaving her as such is telling me she chose to be handicapped. Which IMHO starts to kill believability. If you lost the use of your legs, and had the chance to get them back are you telling me you'd say no to that?
I think if you're going to have a handicapped hero you really need to take into consideration what caused them to be handicapped, and what you're going to allow other characters in your universe to recover from. I question though how Oracle was one of DC's most interesting characters? She sat in a room full of computers supplying information, something that was replaced with Batman's computer.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Grant Morrison on Multiversity(which is suppose to be coming out...eventually!):
This new book is something that Ive been working on for quite awhile. Its nine issues that are 40 pages each. The first one and the last one comprise an 80-page, giant DC super-spectacular story. There are seven comics, each of which come from a different parallel universe, all with a different storytelling approach and artistic look. Each one is drawn by a different artist, but each of them combine. DC Comics has always had this idea of the multi-verse, where there are multiple parallel universes that all occupy the same space, but vibrate at different frequencies. Its that idea of comic book universes as music. Thats what the vibration is. And when you hear them all vibrating together, it makes the most beautiful music youve ever heard, and you can choose what you want that music to be. So, were exploring that concept with this book.
They established that, in each of the worlds of the DC multi-verse, they read comic books about the other worlds. In one world, a fictional character can be a real person. So, we chose to make that the basis of this story. Basically, each of the worlds can read the comic book that we just read, the month before, and theyre all facing a gigantic cosmic threat, which is the most terrifying thing that anybodys ever read in a comic. I dont do hyperbole, so this is the one. Each of the worlds all connect, and they pass on a message to the next world, that something terrible is happening and something is bringing down the structure of the multi-verse.
The first of the seven books is a kind of Justice League of the multi-verse and how they come together. It features the black Superman that we had in Action Comics #9, Calvin Ellis. Hes the main character in that one. The second one is a pulp universe thats the 1940′s characters that fit the pulp archetype. Its set in a world where theres only two billion people. Its 2013, but they just had a major world war, and out of that comes a particular set of circumstances. The next one is set on Earth 11. There was this concept of the super-sons, where Superman and Batman had a couple of sons that were real mean bastards when they grew up. They just werent happy about the legacy their fathers had left them. So, the next one is about this world of the children of superheroes and what happens after youve turned the world into utopia, so theres nothing for you to do, but you can punch out mountains. We chose to do it in the style of The Hills, with these really super bland conversations. We wanted something as shallow, flat and on the surface, but with superheroes and the kind of conversations that superheroes would have. Youll see a lot of the 90s characters who have been consigned to the dust bins. Theyve got nothing to do, so they perform battle re-enactments. Thats another book, which I cant really describe the ambiance of.
Then, we took the storytelling devices of Watchmen and applied them to the Charlton characters that Watchmen was originally inspired by. Instead of Watchmens nine-panel grid, we have an eight-panel grid that reflects the musical harmonics that underpin the whole series. Its based on the number eight, which becomes really important through everything. In 40 pages, weve done this thing that is probably the best thing weve ever done in superhero comics. After that is a great take on the Captain Marvel stuff, and its done as an all-ages book. It's like a Pixar movie. It has a completely different tone, and its a really neat little story thats self-contained.
After that are the Nazi superheroes thats set on what used to be Earth X, but its not Earth 10. The idea behind it is that the Nazis won World War II and took over the world. Its like, what if the classic DC world has been played with and Hitler got ahold of the super-baby, and the world emerges from that. We didnt want to do something dull. This one was meant to feel like a big Shakespeare-style HBO series. Imagine if you were Superman and for the first 25 years of your life you were working for Hitler, and then you go, Oh, my god, its Hitler! Shit, now I get it! Now I see who the baddie is! And he cleans up and creates a utopia, but that utopia is based on the Nazi principles that he was indoctrinated with. Everything is wrong, overblown and ready for destruction in this culture, and Superman knows it. He knows that his entire society, even though it looks like utopian, has been built on the bones of the dead and ultimately is wrong and must be destroyed. To that comes the Freedom Fighter characters led by Uncle Sam, who is the last remnant of the America that was conquered in 1956. Hes gathered all the people that Hitler killed. Weve recast all the Freedom Fighter characters as Hitlers enemies. Its all the people who Hitler persecuted, and its the return of the oppressed. Its a big Game of Thrones, hardcore story about what happens when your entire society is under threat from terrorists who actually embody the good. Worse than that, your leader, Superman, knows that theyre right and that its time for this society to die.
Following that, the seventh issue of the book is called Ultra Comics. Its the one thats set in this world, where we actually use this technology that will blow your mind. Youve never had this experience before with a comic book. Thats all that Im going to say. Its something you have never seen before, and its an actual superhero that were going to make, in front of you. In the midst of all of that, theres a guidebook where were going to show you how the multi-verse works, and it will have a narrative element through it as well. And then, it ends with a bookend that completes the story that we started off in #1, and it unites all the strands of the narrative together. This is my magnum opus. This is why I love comics.
This sounds incredible. Morrison, you sly ol' dog!
Shin Johnpv
Member
Except they didn't eliminate it completely, she still spent some time unable to walk. She had surgery and can now walk again. Which is something I think anyone who as an adult lost their ability to walk, would jump at the chance of.
It's a matter of the greater universe, you're allowing characters to heal relatively easy from injuries far worse than she sustained, but Barbara should stay in a wheel chair because......
Also your comment about Storm is WAY off the mark. They're not even remotely the same thing.
GrandHarrier
Member
Green Lantern Daxamite is such beautiful overkill. I mean, Mon El is practically a one man army as it is. I could see a different member becoming a GL... GL Dawnstar?!
Even as I wrote my list I had second thoughts; what about Chameleon Girl?! Or Collosal Boy?! Its making you pick your favorite child. Except in this case the rest die
If a teenage fan fiction writer could land a Legion gig, I think I can too. Brb, off to write my GL Dawnstar story arc for DC.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Wow. Never seen it put so well but yeah, Levitz's Legion is pretty much No Adults Allowed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY8YIn5okX8
Green Lantern Daxamite is such beautiful overkill. I mean, Mon El is practically a one man army as it is. I could see a different member becoming a GL... GL Dawnstar?!
Even as I wrote my list I had second thoughts; what about Chameleon Girl?! Or Collosal Boy?! Its making you pick your favorite child. Except in this case the rest die
If a teenage fan fiction writer could land a Legion gig, I think I can too. Brb, off to write my GL Dawnstar story arc for DC.
I never really liked Collosal Boy. If he survives, I'd add Blok, always liked that guy.
GL Dawny would be interesting, she could track anything and then pretty much do anything because of the ring. She might end up as overpowered as Mon-El, haha.
What about Wildfire or Shrinking Violet?
GrandHarrier
Member
It's not his fault but I just can't really like Drake. He is one of the heavy hitting power houses of the team to be sure and his one man showdown in Legion Lost was great, but... Eh... His impossible to consumate relationship with Dawnstar became too much of a focus if his story and personality.
Shrinking Violet... She is great, with Lightning Lass. But if you remove that, I feel her character would suffer like it did (imo) during Five Years Later.
Violet, Lightning Lass, and Dream Girl can be the reserve members then, because of reasons.
Can we agree there is no need to bring Karate Kid back? Unless they're going to reuse his story from Countdown and have him be the Morticoccus carrier.
GrandHarrier
Member
Thanks Birdie. Conversation was too rational and positive. ;-)
Current Levitz Legion are adults, married, kids for some.
Tim: This is the problem isn't it? We don't want to lose anyone but the cuts gotta be deep! DEEP BRO.
Ok, so if it's going to be 7 members (to match the JL), then I go with Brainy, Mon-El, Dawnstar, Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Wildfire. If we expand to 10 then add White Witch, Glorith, and Blok.
Grant Morrison on Multiversity(which is suppose to be coming out...eventually!):
This new book is something that Ive been working on for quite awhile. Its nine issues that are 40 pages each. The first one and the last one comprise an 80-page, giant DC super-spectacular story. There are seven comics, each of which come from a different parallel universe, all with a different storytelling approach and artistic look. Each one is drawn by a different artist, but each of them combine. DC Comics has always had this idea of the multi-verse, where there are multiple parallel universes that all occupy the same space, but vibrate at different frequencies. Its that idea of comic book universes as music. Thats what the vibration is. And when you hear them all vibrating together, it makes the most beautiful music youve ever heard, and you can choose what you want that music to be. So, were exploring that concept with this book.
They established that, in each of the worlds of the DC multi-verse, they read comic books about the other worlds. In one world, a fictional character can be a real person. So, we chose to make that the basis of this story. Basically, each of the worlds can read the comic book that we just read, the month before, and theyre all facing a gigantic cosmic threat, which is the most terrifying thing that anybodys ever read in a comic. I dont do hyperbole, so this is the one. Each of the worlds all connect, and they pass on a message to the next world, that something terrible is happening and something is bringing down the structure of the multi-verse.
The first of the seven books is a kind of Justice League of the multi-verse and how they come together. It features the black Superman that we had in Action Comics #9, Calvin Ellis. Hes the main character in that one. The second one is a pulp universe thats the 1940′s characters that fit the pulp archetype. Its set in a world where theres only two billion people. Its 2013, but they just had a major world war, and out of that comes a particular set of circumstances. The next one is set on Earth 11. There was this concept of the super-sons, where Superman and Batman had a couple of sons that were real mean bastards when they grew up. They just werent happy about the legacy their fathers had left them. So, the next one is about this world of the children of superheroes and what happens after youve turned the world into utopia, so theres nothing for you to do, but you can punch out mountains. We chose to do it in the style of The Hills, with these really super bland conversations. We wanted something as shallow, flat and on the surface, but with superheroes and the kind of conversations that superheroes would have. Youll see a lot of the 90s characters who have been consigned to the dust bins. Theyve got nothing to do, so they perform battle re-enactments. Thats another book, which I cant really describe the ambiance of.
Then, we took the storytelling devices of Watchmen and applied them to the Charlton characters that Watchmen was originally inspired by. Instead of Watchmens nine-panel grid, we have an eight-panel grid that reflects the musical harmonics that underpin the whole series. Its based on the number eight, which becomes really important through everything. In 40 pages, weve done this thing that is probably the best thing weve ever done in superhero comics. After that is a great take on the Captain Marvel stuff, and its done as an all-ages book. It's like a Pixar movie. It has a completely different tone, and its a really neat little story thats self-contained.
After that are the Nazi superheroes thats set on what used to be Earth X, but its not Earth 10. The idea behind it is that the Nazis won World War II and took over the world. Its like, what if the classic DC world has been played with and Hitler got ahold of the super-baby, and the world emerges from that. We didnt want to do something dull. This one was meant to feel like a big Shakespeare-style HBO series. Imagine if you were Superman and for the first 25 years of your life you were working for Hitler, and then you go, Oh, my god, its Hitler! Shit, now I get it! Now I see who the baddie is! And he cleans up and creates a utopia, but that utopia is based on the Nazi principles that he was indoctrinated with. Everything is wrong, overblown and ready for destruction in this culture, and Superman knows it. He knows that his entire society, even though it looks like utopian, has been built on the bones of the dead and ultimately is wrong and must be destroyed. To that comes the Freedom Fighter characters led by Uncle Sam, who is the last remnant of the America that was conquered in 1956. Hes gathered all the people that Hitler killed. Weve recast all the Freedom Fighter characters as Hitlers enemies. Its all the people who Hitler persecuted, and its the return of the oppressed. Its a big Game of Thrones, hardcore story about what happens when your entire society is under threat from terrorists who actually embody the good. Worse than that, your leader, Superman, knows that theyre right and that its time for this society to die.
Following that, the seventh issue of the book is called Ultra Comics. Its the one thats set in this world, where we actually use this technology that will blow your mind. Youve never had this experience before with a comic book. Thats all that Im going to say. Its something you have never seen before, and its an actual superhero that were going to make, in front of you. In the midst of all of that, theres a guidebook where were going to show you how the multi-verse works, and it will have a narrative element through it as well. And then, it ends with a bookend that completes the story that we started off in #1, and it unites all the strands of the narrative together. This is my magnum opus. This is why I love comics.
This sounds completely amazing. I am still catching up on Morrison's run of Batman, and Batman and Robin. I really dug his writing in All-Star Superman. When the issues start to come out, I'l probably pick them up.
GrandHarrier
Member
Gonna have to explain your choice in Drake. He just seems so melodramatic to me. But I'd love to be convinced otherwise!
Of course we could also be looking at this all wrong. Wasn't there a Justice Legion that was like, in the DC One Million line?
I like Drake's powers, and honestly all the melodrama is amusing to me. I probably like him for all the reasons you don't like him.
Wasn't the DC 1000000 Justice Legion just time displaced analogues of the League? A Superman, Batman, etc..
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
If you can't appreciate the need to drop a Mr. Show clip whenever even remotely appropriate, I don't even know what to tell you.
GrandHarrier
Member
Ah. Never watched it and on limited bandwidth atm. I'll check it out when I get home.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Two issues into Archer and Armstrong and my god this book is fantastic.
X-O is pretty dope too. Up to #4 on that one (I think). Pretty interesting take on not all that unexplored territory.
X-O is pretty dope too. Up to #4 on that one (I think). Pretty interesting take on not all that unexplored territory.
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
needs more Phantom Girl
GrandHarrier
Member
Only if it's the half crazy Threeboot version.
Colossal waste of time, it's like reading a bunch of What Ifs tied together with Ultron lurking around in the background not doing shit
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
It's exactly what you expect. Some "event" when the first issue was about Hawkeye raiding a crack house instead of Ultron shenanigans, you knew it would be bad. It had a cool foil cover, which all issues should've had. I would say it is the Morbius of events.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
While this is accurate, I wouldn't call it a waste of time. Pretty fun story.
MisterHero
Super Member
Wow I didn't expect so much information about Multiversity in one article. That just makes me want it more. D:
As long as he's talking about characters reading comics about other characters, I really want it to include
As long as he's talking about characters reading comics about other characters, I really want it to include
Superboy-Prime. Is that such a bad request?
Only Bendis could write a big event comic where nothing actually happens.
slightconfuse
Banned
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
GrandHarrier
Member
Wow I didn't expect so much information about Multiversity in one article. That just makes me want it more. D:
As long as he's talking about characters reading comics about other characters, I really want it to includeSuperboy-Prime. Is that such a bad request?
It's the only logical request.
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