Copa América Centenario |OT| featuring Messi, James, Suárez and $110 mil in bribes

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MLS is being modeled after the big US leagues. This has always been the long-term goal.

Like the NBA and NFL with conferences and unbalanced schedules that have the top teams go to the playoffs with the conference champions eventually meeting for a final.

It didn't have the number of teams to do that in the past which is why the format has changed as often as it did.
 
The last three Copa America, the winners were all in the same group with Mexico.

That means we are gonna win the cup. I can feel it in my bones
 
MLS is fairly easy to understand. The only wacky stuff is the financials. The league in general is a mix of American sports traditions (draft, playoffs) with the realities of being part of an international sport. The audience MLS is aimed at is one that understands both parts.

Resident_UA said:
EDIT 2: I just spent 20 minutes trying to figure out 2015 season... I can't even tell who became a champion. There's a cup winner, but MLS plays cup after the league is over? So it's like NBA? Why do that? Also each conference played 34 games (!!) and some of the games they played against other conference anyway. It seems very unfair. Games away in soccer are actually a huge factor. Just keep it to either 2 or 4 games against the same team... Who thought this was a good idea?
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There are three main trophies. Open Cup is the domestic competition that is open to all flights. Supporters Shield goes to the best regular season team. MLS Cup winner is the "real" champion, which is determined by the playoffs.
 
ryseing said:
MLS is fairly easy to understand. The only wacky stuff is the financials. The league in general is a mix of American sports traditions (draft, playoffs) with the realities of being part of an international sport. The audience MLS is aimed at is one understands both parts.
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You have to keep in mind that people like me don't understand any of American sport traditions... That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. Why even have this "American sport traditions" part? It makes it more difficult to get in for people who are not interested in American sports to begin with...

ryseing said:
There are three main trophies. Open Cup is the domestic competition that is open to all flights. Supporters Shield goes to the best regular season team. MLS Cup winner is the "real" champion, which is determined by the playoffs.
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See, that's the part that seems backwards to me. In most countries being at the top of the table is waaaaaay more prestigious than winning a cup. When I look at 2015 I see 4th team playing against 5th team for the championship. Just does not seem to be as "prestigious".
 
Resident_UA said:
You have to keep in mind that people like me don't understand any of American sport traditions... That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. Why even have this "American sport traditions" part? It makes it more difficult to get in for people who are not interested in American sports to begin with...
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But MLS has to appeal to the mainstream American sports fan or else it's doomed to be a hockey level sport- almost there but not near the big three.

I'm not trying to be a dick. I'll happily explain to the best of my ability any questions you have about the league.

See, that's the part that seems backwards to me. In most countries being at the top of the table is waaaaaay more prestigious than winning a cup. When I look at 2015 I see 4th team playing against 5th team for the championship. Just does not seem to be as "prestigious".
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But in order to get there they had to beat the teams that finished ahead of them in the standings. In the NFL, the best regular season team doesn't often win the Super Bowl.
 
ryseing said:
But MLS has to appeal to the mainstream American sports fan or else it's doomed to be a hockey level sport- almost there but not near the big three.

I'm not trying to be a dick. I'll happily explain to the best of my ability any questions you have about the league.
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I think that they could get enough people interested if they didn't try to appeal to the same audience. Just look at the game today. Around 70,000 and I could bet that huge part of them knows more about English league than they know about most American sports.

ryseing said:
But in order to get there they had to beat the teams that finished ahead of them in the standings. In the NFL, the best regular season team doesn't often win the Super Bowl.
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Don't get me started on NFL. It feels so random. I don't really know how NFL works either :)

But that's besides the point. I'm just explaining why I don't know a single person interested in MLS and I know about 20 people who watch soccer at least once a week (both friends and work).

ryseing said:
Half of that 70k was Colombian. EPL does decent ratings over here considering the time zone difference but they're nowhere near basketball/baseball ratings.

And that's part of the problem. MLS isn't even a top 10 global league so the hardcore fans are going to watch the foreign stuff instead.
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That's right. I feel like they should be competing against other leagues rather then competing against American sports. Sure, it's way more risky, but I think it would help the national team for sure. That way MLS would have potential to become more diverse (both players and viewers).
 
Resident_UA said:
I think that they could get enough people interested if they didn't try to appeal to the same audience. Just look at the game today. Around 70,000 and I could bet that huge part of them knows more about English league than they know about most American sports.
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Half of that 70k was Colombian. EPL does decent ratings over here considering the time zone difference but they're nowhere near basketball/baseball ratings.

And that's part of the problem. MLS isn't even a top 10 global league so the aficionados are going to watch the foreign stuff instead.

But that's besides the point. I'm just explaining why I don't know a single person interested in MLS and I know about 20 people who watch soccer at least once a week (both friends and work)
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^ Your friends are watching better quality soccer. I like MLS and I'll be the first to admit the quality of play isn't the best.

MLS has a problem that other American sports don't have because those leagues are the best in the world. Not only is MLS competing with other American sports, they're competing for the relatively small American soccer audience with other leagues that have a flat out better product.

That's right. I feel like they should be competing against other leagues rather then competing against American sports. Sure, it's way more risky, but I think it would help the national team for sure. That way MLS would have potential to become more diverse (both players and viewers).
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That argument has been made, but again, it will doom the sport to second tier status in this country.

MLS can't compete on quality of play. They can compete on being American, with all of the idiosyncrasies that come with that label.
 
USA was trash city. I don't see klingon being coach after the cup. This could've easily been a 4-0 game if Colombia didn't chill in the back the first half. They played much better in the second half and looked good. I'm hyped to see them play.
 
In Mexico we use Playoffs, in fact, I think some South Americans countries as well.

Its more appealing and seen as less boring. Honestly I don't think a league system like England would change anything here, the outside crowed might get interested, but if the style of football is unappealing. They'll drop it.

Although I have a Bias for playoffs.
 
DecoReturns said:
In Mexico we use Playoffs, in fact, I think some South Americans countries as well.

Its more appealing and seen as less boring. Honestly I don't think a league system like England would change anything here, the outside crowed might get interested, but if the style of football is unappealing. They'll drop it.

Although I have a Bias for playoffs.
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Oh, I love playoff systems. Adds more drama and makes for better storylines.
 
The404ce said:
People are looking for unforgettable experiences, MLS should give them that.
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again this speaks to ignorance about the league. If you look at fanbases in places like Orlando, Kansas City and Cascadia etc., I would say that they are getting their 'unforgettable' experiences.

MLS has its own idiosyncrasies. But it isn't take an understanding in rocket science to figure them out (only exception would be the financial side of things)
 
Nesotenso said:
again this speaks to ignorance about the league. If you look at fanbases in places like Orlando, Kansas City and Cascadia etc., I would say that they are getting their 'unforgettable' experiences.

MLS has its own idiosyncrasies. But it isn't take an understanding in rocket science to figure them out (only exception would be the financial side of things)
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Something something Garber bucks.
 
Lolno. Mls shouldn't model the European leagues at all as it just wouldn't work. The calendar is fine but the MLS really needs to work on how the matches are set. It's stupid to play against the same team 4 times in the season while you only play against another team once. I've always thought that if the MLS wants a long season, they should do one home and one away and couple it with the playoffs. If anything, the MLS should model how the Mexican league handles stuff. Two short seasons within the soccer calendar. The teams would win more often thus garnering attention from casuals much faster. I'm okay with the east and west conferences, I've always liked it and it makes sense here in the USA at least since the country is so damn big.
 
v1lla21 said:
If anything, the MLS should model how the Mexican league handles stuff. Two short seasons within the soccer calendar. The teams would win more often thus garnering attention from casuals much faster. I'm okay with the east and west conferences, I've always liked it and it makes sense here in the USA at least since the country is so damn big.
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NASL (second flight) actually does this, with somewhat mixed results.
 
well I survived, but that's surprising how angry some of the US fans were getting. I'm worried about Rodriguez with his shoulder now, hopefully that doesn't take him out of the the whole cup. Also hard to judge Colombia since we sat back for the first half after that early goal, US had possession most of the time, though I doubt we'll have any trouble advancing past the group stage. What are you guys seeing for Colombia? I'd obviously like them to win, but realistically, I'd be happy with getting to the semi's. We just need to play our games well and lose after a tough match, and not because we crumbled (minus Ospina) like we did last summer.
 
Went to the game tonight to cheer on the US. We had great seats is about the only thing I can say. :D idontknowwhatiexpected.gif
 
Zardes and Wood were useless together. Bedoya, Jones, Bradley looked terrible in the mf. Jones looked completely shaken and when Nagbe came in he looked so timid with the ball. I'm not sure there is a solution there. Jones just needs to step it up.

The back four were otherwise good but for two costly mistakes, and that's just not going to cut it at a tournament like this.

Colombia scored on a corner because our cb got himself screened. He was otherwise so good. Yedlin was faster than anyone else out there, but threw his hand up and rightfully got called. Ball to hand or hand to ball - doesn't matter. Keep your fucking hands down.

We really needed a damn goal here too. That save on Dempsey was incredible, but it also might be what knocks us out of the group on top of the lose.

We now have to win big and hope for a draw.
 
i didn't catch the game... it was 3AM here when it started and I was knocked out... i caught highlights and the stadium seemed to be..... well... not very full?

Opening match Colombia vs USA... doesn't bode well. I'm sure it'll do well especially on the East Coast with East Rutherford and Philly.... but...


Edit> nvm I don't know what I was watching but I just rewatched the highlights and the stadium looked pack.... people's videos on facebook though seemed like it was half empty... but they were opening ceremony.. so makes sense.
 
Cappa said:
i didn't catch the game... it was 3AM here when it started and I was knocked out... i caught highlights and the stadium seemed to be..... well... not very full?

Opening match Colombia vs USA... doesn't bode well. I'm sure it'll do well especially on the East Coast with East Rutherford and Philly.... but...


Edit> nvm I don't know what I was watching but I just rewatched the highlights and the stadium looked pack.... people's videos on facebook though seemed like it was half empty... but they were opening ceremony.. so makes sense.
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It was 92F at kickoff, I think a lot of people were in the stadium but not in their seats until the game actually started. To their credit, the fans endured 45 + 45 minutes of the sun shining directly down on them in that heat and were loud the whole way through. At least it's a dry heat.
 
How is MLS confusing? There is a league, a post-season playoff, and a national cup. So aside from the playoffs its no different than any other Euro country with football? Playoffs are pretty standard across this continent and South America.
 
Outdoor Miner said:
How is MLS confusing? There is a league, a post-season playoff, and a national cup. So aside from the playoffs its no different than any other Euro country with football? Playoffs are pretty standard across this continent and South America.
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You forgot to mention not playing equal number of games against other teams. That's a big part of confusion as well. Also I really hate having 2 conferences. But I'm going to give up on that argument. Not having relegation and promotion is shitty. Drafting makes no sense to me...


Is there anyone from outside the US that understands MLS? If so, where are you from?
 
Goddamn we suck a lot of ass. I thought we were getting better as a nation after the 2014 WC. I even thought we would have a good team in the olympic games this year with all the U23 talent, but we couldn't even qualify. I thought we'd get a new generation of players in the next 20 years or so to be a powerhouse, but it seems like we are regressing as a soccer nation. I honestly think we are worse now than we were a couple of years ago.

Alex_Mexico said:
The USMNT must be the only soccer national teams that semi regularly plays as visitors even when playing in their own country. What the hell was all those oleeeees in favor of Colombia?
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That's par for the course in the US. When you think about it, the US has more immigrants than any other country in the world, by far. If you count first generation and/or birthright children, then that number is probably greater than the population of the UK or even Germany.

It's not semi regularly either, it's every single time. The USMNT does not have a home field advantage that other countries enjoy. It's not only in soccer either, it's for pretty much every sport as well. There was a recent World Championship and World Cup of wrestling in the US. You'd hear chants of "Iran, Iran, Iran" when their wrestlers were fighting US players (I gotta admit the chants were catchy too lol). I feel confident we will see the same at next weekend's freestyle wrestling world cup in LA.

In a way it's good as the players/athletes will always be used to playing in a hostile environment and will be very used to it when they play away games, but it's bad as they will never truly get that advantage of playing at home.

I'm genuinely curious as to what the crowd would look like if LA gets the 2024 games and/or the US gets the 2026 FIFA World Cup. Things are a bit different now than they were in 1994 and 1996
 
Resident_UA said:
Not having relegation and promotion is shitty. Drafting makes no sense to me...
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Pro/rel only works in countries with a long established soccer culture where fans will support their local club no matter what. MLS has been around for two decades.

Drafting exists because of the roles colleges play in developing talent.
 
Resident_UA said:
You forgot to mention not playing equal number of games against other teams. That's a big part of confusion as well. Also I really hate having 2 conferences. But I'm going to give up on that argument. Not having relegation and promotion is shitty. Drafting makes no sense to me...


Is there anyone from outside the US that understands MLS? If so, where are you from?
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I do and I like it. I like watching games here and there but I'm not big of a follower. But I love all the other american sports as well so I'm familiar with their formats.

They do need to say fuck you to College Soccer, I agree drafting doesn't work for Football It puts players behind so much internationally, College years are crucial years where if you're good enough to go pro you should probably have been playing pro for a while. I don't really follow MLS closely so I'm guessing really good young players bypass college? I would certainly hope so.
 
clemenx said:
I don't really follow MLS closely so I'm guessing really good young players bypass college? I would certainly hope so.
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I don't follow MLS close enough to know either, but at least for other US sports leagues it is not that uncommon for someone to go pro out of High School, or at least before finishing college. Basketball is probably the most common in that regard, with (American) Football being the least due to how big college football itself is and the NFL's whole draft structure being college-based.

It would be interesting to see what would happen of US soccer attempted a classic relegation-style league setup. I'm not sure if it's something that Americans at large would really latch onto though, just due to how it's different from all other sports leagues.
 
ryseing said:
Pro/rel only works in countries with a long established soccer culture where fans will support their local club no matter what. MLS has been around for two decades.

Drafting exists because of the roles colleges play in developing talent.
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Sorry to get off-topic, but this whole discussion got me trying to figure out NFL and NBA tournament setups. They seem to be so freaking artificial. I guess I understand splitting teams into two conferences, but why they are further split into 8 "groups"? Plus, who are they playing against. Why not just play against specific teams in your group or conference? Is it just to make it more exciting?
 
Resident_UA said:
You forgot to mention not playing equal number of games against other teams. That's a big part of confusion as well. Also I really hate having 2 conferences. But I'm going to give up on that argument. Not having relegation and promotion is shitty. Drafting makes no sense to me...


Is there anyone from outside the US that understands MLS? If so, where are you from?
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You play more games against teams from your conference for the same reason you have two conferences, because of the travel times and distances.

Having pro/relegation would kill the league as the lower leagues are not financially stable. And pro/rel isn't magically going to make soccer development better. It is a tired argument trotted out by people who have no clue of the financial situation of soccer leagues in this country.

College drafts used to be the primary source of new players but they are not anymore. Nowadays they are there to bring in players who might fall through the cracks.

clemenx said:
I don't really follow MLS closely so I'm guessing really good young players bypass college? I would certainly hope so.
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the college draft is increasingly becoming an afterthought (if it is not already) for most MLS teams. All the MLS teams are required to have academies are building the pyramid upwards with various teams of different age groups. All MLS teams have USL (3rd division of soccer) affiliates and some teams have a 2nd team in USL (sort of like B teams in Europe and other places). The MLS academies are slowly bringing more players into the league.

The future of US Soccer depends on the success/failure of MLS academies and how they develop their talent.
 
Resident_UA said:
Sorry to get off-topic, but this whole discussion got me trying to figure out NFL and NBA tournament setups. They seem to be so freaking artificial. I guess I understand splitting teams into two conferences, but why they are further split into 8 "groups"? Plus, who are they playing against. Why not just play against specific teams in your group or conference? Is it just to make it more exciting?
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NFL teams play each team in their 4-team division twice (home and away). It has created some great rivalries in my opinion. Why does every league have to be set up the same way?

Also, I must say that it's really annoying that every time US looses a soccer game it leads to some existential discussion about MLS and the future of everything. Like cmon, calm down people haha
 
Nesotenso said:
You play more games against teams from your conference for the same reason you have two conferences, because of the travel times and distances.

Having pro/relegation would kill the league as the lower leagues are not financially stable. And pro/rel isn't magically going to make soccer development better. It is a tired argument trotted out by people who have no clue of the financial situation of soccer leagues in this country.

College drafts used to be the primary source of new players but they are not anymore. Nowadays they are there to bring in players who might fall through the cracks.
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Just making the number of games set would help a lot. For example - play 2 games against each team in your league (home and away) and then 1 game with each team from the other league (home and away determined by ranking from the past season - higher ranked team plays away).

ZZMitch said:
NFL teams play each team in their 4-team division twice (home and away). It has created some great rivalries in my opinion. Why does every league have to be set up the same way?

Also, I must say that it's really annoying that every time US looses a soccer game it leads to some existential discussion about MLS and the future of everything. Like cmon, calm down people haha
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So it is artificial :). It's just not my cup of tea. I prefer when the rules are equal across as many teams as possible. I actually enjoy following the league table from week to week and seeing slow progression and then trying to anticipate what kind of games the team has remaining.

Also I think US team looked very interesting yesterday. Probably most exciting game I've seen them play...
 
Resident_UA said:
So it is artificial :). It's just not my cup of tea. I prefer when the rules are equal across as many teams as possible. I actually enjoy following the league table from week to week and seeing slow progression and then trying to anticipate what kind of games the team has remaining.

Also I think US team looked very interesting yesterday. Probably most exciting game I've seen them play...
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Of course it's "artificial". So is any league set up... I dont get your point. What makes having a single table less artificial then any other set up.

As someone who follows MLS and the NFL, I also check league standings often and see who is in the playoff picture, on the outside looking in etc. It is very interesting
 
Jurgen Damm is out for Mexico. Feel bad for him, but I honestly don't think he's as good as many are saying. Although Candido is a stupid call up. He doesn't play at all

Then again Tigres is not the club for him, felt he was playing better in Pachuca.
 
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