Cops shoot and kill man holding toy gun in Walmart
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They did this with my sister. Three shots in the chest, and while she's lying there gurgling, trying to breathe, he rolls her over and handcuffs her. The paramedics actually had to ask him to remove the cuffs so they could work on her.
Jazzy Network
Member
Lol yea like Minority Report. Kill the person who might commit the deed before they commit it.
DoktorEvil
Banned
But Obama isn't the Democrats, and...
Fuck it, I'm too tired to try and decipher what goes through people's heads when they walk around with AKs and military grade weaponry like they're fucking fashion accessories.
This guy didn't deserve that shit.
Found a gun blogger discussing the 2 people who called 911 on the guy:
http://bearingarms.com/walmart-airgun-death-looks-worse-every-passing-day/
Shouldn't a former marine be able to discern between a fake gun and a fucking gun designed to kill people?
If the cop shot first before identifying himself and ordering him to drop it, he's going to be in for some shit hopefully.
The family should also sue the fuck out of wal-mart. Here's why.
This is a picture of the air rifle (i wouldn't call an air rifle a toy. This thing is a bb/pellet rifle, not airsoft) in question.
According to a GIS, this thing comes boxed. Why the hell was he carrying it around unboxed? Probably because that's how wal-mart sells it. And if so, why the shit does wal-mart allow a customer to carry the thing around the store instead of walking it up to the register or boxing it?
The family should also sue the fuck out of wal-mart. Here's why.
This is a picture of the air rifle (i wouldn't call an air rifle a toy. This thing is a bb/pellet rifle, not airsoft) in question.
According to a GIS, this thing comes boxed. Why the hell was he carrying it around unboxed? Probably because that's how wal-mart sells it. And if so, why the shit does wal-mart allow a customer to carry the thing around the store instead of walking it up to the register or boxing it?
At this point its just semantics of how bad the situation really is. In an open carry state and like the multiple pictures being shown even if it was a real rifle the situation would still have been handled wrong.
He was on a phone in a walmart store buying a gun. Sadly inserting "A black man" or "A white man" meant life or death in this situation. We have consistent youtube videos and pitures of white guys rubbing open carry in police officers face and antagonizing them about it and the law without coming to harm. It's so incredibly obvious what is going on here in the story.
I also see how the open carry activists are going to try and distance themselves away from having to defend the guy and side with the police without being called racists. "But they said he was waving it around so thats that. Case closed."
Woah. Can you give us more information? Why was she shot? It seems incredible this would be done if somebody is mortally injured.
You're looking at it the wrong way.
If someone waved a toy gun at you but you thought it was real, would you not want a police officer to kill the person pointing it at you? Would you not be scared for your life?
Again, school example. If I walked into a school with a toy gun and pointed it at everyone, they'd evacuate the building, send about 50 cops and probably shoot me if I didn't comply immediately when the cops arrived.
I wish I could say you're wrong and believe it. I really, really do.
Words cannot describe how terrible those people are.
Angelus Errare
Banned
White guys open carry real weapons in department store, live to tell about it.
Black guy does the same thing with a toy gun, is killed by cops.
I wonder why...
Man if I saw cats like this walking around my target, I would have dropped all my shit and
Fuck that noise.
Sir Blaming
Member
Oh and can we make the conclusion that one, if he was holding a gun, that yes, it must be out of the box. Two, if the thing was out of the box, there must be other guns in display as well. And three, we are not going anywhere without footage?
Stop speculating, and wait until some proof are out(if they even come out). We could even ask one of the poster here that was living nearby about the layout of the store.
well, can i say that its a tad bit ironic that you guys don't mind openly carry your guns?
But the point still stands here, you should not be shooting at a guy that was just pointing a gun at people. Yes, calling the police because he was pointing at people is understandable, but you should not be shooting at people who has not done anything at all.
I can go on and on, but you guys should stop killing people like you can read their thoughts to "kill"
Stop speculating, and wait until some proof are out(if they even come out). We could even ask one of the poster here that was living nearby about the layout of the store.
well, can i say that its a tad bit ironic that you guys don't mind openly carry your guns?
But the point still stands here, you should not be shooting at a guy that was just pointing a gun at people. Yes, calling the police because he was pointing at people is understandable, but you should not be shooting at people who has not done anything at all.
I can go on and on, but you guys should stop killing people like you can read their thoughts to "kill"
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I'm with you, dude.
Thankfully, that doesn't happen around here.
It's actually shocking for me to see.
I'd be like "...nope".
KidGalactus
Member
I would call the cops, and have them shot to death.
It's apparently the appropriate response.
FloatingDivider
Member
Coming at this from a European perspective this all seems super crazy. First of all, why are "toy guns" even coming close to looking like the real deal? I haven't seen anything that looks that realistic sold as a toy over here. Secondly, why isn't the toy gun in a box? Was it in a box? It should have been in a box, or atleast ziptied to some cardboard or something. Did he unpack it in the store?
Was he holding a cellphone in one hand while supposedly brandishing this assault rifle? I don't know much about guns, but how effective could you possible be while holding an assault rifle with one hand(if it actually was one)?
Was his finger actually on the trigger? If the couple following him heard it click shouldn't they assume it's either unloaded or you know a toy? Why would you follow someone who was brandishing what you thought was a gun? Doesn't Wal Mart sell real guns and ammo? What happens to the people that buy those? Why didn't he drop the gun? Did he drop gun? Was he just not fast enough? How much time do you actually have to comply to a request like drop the gun? Did these cops approach him from the front or from the rear? Logic says they should have approached him from the rear, but maybe he spun around when they said drop the gun and that caused them to panic? I would have spun and probably wouldn't have dropped the gun. I don't get how any of this story can actually happen, it seems utterly unbelievable, like something from a terrible movie.
I'd like to visit America at some point in my life but I'm brown, and I've read enough neogaf shooting reports that I'm afraid of getting shot. That Carl Zeiss telescoping lens might be attached to a sniper rifle of sorts.
Was he holding a cellphone in one hand while supposedly brandishing this assault rifle? I don't know much about guns, but how effective could you possible be while holding an assault rifle with one hand(if it actually was one)?
Was his finger actually on the trigger? If the couple following him heard it click shouldn't they assume it's either unloaded or you know a toy? Why would you follow someone who was brandishing what you thought was a gun? Doesn't Wal Mart sell real guns and ammo? What happens to the people that buy those? Why didn't he drop the gun? Did he drop gun? Was he just not fast enough? How much time do you actually have to comply to a request like drop the gun? Did these cops approach him from the front or from the rear? Logic says they should have approached him from the rear, but maybe he spun around when they said drop the gun and that caused them to panic? I would have spun and probably wouldn't have dropped the gun. I don't get how any of this story can actually happen, it seems utterly unbelievable, like something from a terrible movie.
I'd like to visit America at some point in my life but I'm brown, and I've read enough neogaf shooting reports that I'm afraid of getting shot. That Carl Zeiss telescoping lens might be attached to a sniper rifle of sorts.
CouldBeWorse
Member
It's NOT semantics. A toy gun doesn't do anything. An air rifle shoots pellets that can sting a large person/animal and kill a small one. Changing the thread title will stop the drive-by posts of people who don't read the article and assume he was just holding an orange-tipped toy gun.
There is nowhere in the story that suggests he was buying the gun.
Also, I'm not sure how you can compare the two situations. While it is HIGHLY likely that his race played a role in the tragedy, you can't say with absolute certainty that a white guy doing exactly the same thing wouldn't have also been shot. The combination of older folks scared by a younger kid and the cops perhaps being too quick on the trigger with a needless death being the result could happen to anyone of any race. And I'm sure it does, but we definitely here more about it with white cops and black victims.
Not very effective. Which is just more proof the cops didn't evaluate the situation at all.
I'll still maintain that the smartest thing to do in a thread like this is to find out more facts and assess the situation.
Jumping to conclusions, generalizing to trends is always the wrong thing to do.
Go over and look at the Tony Stewart thread. Horrible thing happens, people condemn Tony Stewart. Footage emerges, completely changes the narrative. Logic wins out.
Jumping to conclusions, generalizing to trends is always the wrong thing to do.
Go over and look at the Tony Stewart thread. Horrible thing happens, people condemn Tony Stewart. Footage emerges, completely changes the narrative. Logic wins out.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Visit anyways. Stick to the cities and you won't have paranoid assholes harassing you.
Gotta say, the more I read these stories, the more I feel like I can't go anywhere that is a suburb.
I don't want to derail, but...
My sister had problems, and the biggest was an asshole junkie on and off again boyfriend. When they were off, she was sober and fine, when they were on, he controlled her through drugs. She also had a lot of mental problems that plagued her throughout her life. Mental illness plus hardcore drug use are a bad combo. Flash to that night. My sister was accusing the boyfriend of cheating on her (we found out later he was), he got her off his back by giving her crack. Then he wound her up telling her all sorts of crazy shit that people are willing to believe in altered states. She started throwing shit at him, he called the cops. Cops sent one guy. By the time he got there, the fight was over. My sister had just taken a bath and was gethering up laundry when the cop showed up. He went to see what the problem was, saw the paring knife in the waistband of my sister's pants, told her to drop it. I don't know whether she was confused or still on her high, but instead of just dropping the knife, she drew it and held it in her hand despite the cop telling her to drop it. Eventually he shot her 3 times in the chest (though he had a taser) and the rest you know.
The Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation did an investigation, found no wrongdoing, and the cop got an award that year.
It seems to happen to young black men a lot, though.
A.D. Skinner
Member
All of these pictures with white people and guns aren't really an argument though, and I agree with the top post on this page about why some gun owners have to be complete dicks about it. As for the pictures and the situation, they're not waving the guns around, the guy is being reported as point it at people and waving it around. Big difference.
I look forward to seeing what comes of all those involved and if a video is ever released.
I look forward to seeing what comes of all those involved and if a video is ever released.
lol, people from the burbs feel the same about the city
CouldBeWorse
Member
Statistically, the burbs are way safer for anyone, regardless of race.
I know, which is why I found that statement funny.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Release the surveillance footage and remove all doubt.
My guess is he was loosely handling it because it was an empty BB gun. Probably not intentionally pointing it at anyone so much as carelessly handling it, leading the business end to be waved around as he inspected it and messed with it while babbling on the phone.
As for the, "he looked menacing" commentary from our marine...yea, okay. I'd imagine if cops rushed to me, guns drawn and said "freeze" or "drop it", I'd half-way think they were talking to someone behind me. Because surely they're not threatening to shoot me holding this BB gun. And in that pause, I'd be on my way to heaven.
Because shopping while black can be hazardous if you look "menacing". The logical conclusion if you look unhappy as a black man is that you might be intending to rob people. It's why I'm always smiling at white folk.
My guess is he was loosely handling it because it was an empty BB gun. Probably not intentionally pointing it at anyone so much as carelessly handling it, leading the business end to be waved around as he inspected it and messed with it while babbling on the phone.
As for the, "he looked menacing" commentary from our marine...yea, okay. I'd imagine if cops rushed to me, guns drawn and said "freeze" or "drop it", I'd half-way think they were talking to someone behind me. Because surely they're not threatening to shoot me holding this BB gun. And in that pause, I'd be on my way to heaven.
Because shopping while black can be hazardous if you look "menacing". The logical conclusion if you look unhappy as a black man is that you might be intending to rob people. It's why I'm always smiling at white folk.
The Burbs did for suburbs what Jaws did for sharks.
DoktorEvil
Banned
No kidding.
Something about Long Island that breeds paranoid, entitled little shits that hurt the city just as much as some help.
I spoke to someone that thought all 5 boroughs were dangerous war zones(her words). That's a new one.
So it's just as safe for a black person to open carry as a white person?
DoktorEvil
Banned
Tell us. Does the toy aisle have be guns like that one out in the open? Are they normally boxed?
You do realize that pretty much every source article on this says toy gun, right?
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
I'm willing to bet that if he were white those people would have thought, 'oh, he is playing around with that toy gun and those kids'
We don't know that he was "pointing it at people". It seems that he was on the phone talking to his wife/girlfriend and absentmindedly pointing the airsoft gun around, as he'd just bought it. People thought it was a real gun and called the police, and an idiot cop's first instinct was to shoot the guy.
CouldBeWorse
Member
I don't follow your question because you completely changed the argument.
To humor you, though, I don't have any statistics not have I sought out any studies that would definitely answer your question. And it would be difficult to answer because it's so dependent upon the situation that there is no blanket answer to your question.
A-huh.
Actually I didn't change any question, i've been stating all along if this was a white person we would have different results, backed up by the countless pics and youtube video open carry activists who HAPPEN to be white doing so unscathed. Sometimes you don't need statistics to come to conclusions.
Just for fun I suggest people type in black men open carry in google search for images. You get a couple pics of the same couple black men open carrying and the rest are white dudes open carrying.
Eh, this is a typical gaf-clusterfuck.
On one end, there's the people who think if a cop shoots a black person all fault and doubt goes towards the cops, because all cops are racist.
On the other, there's the people who think the person is an idiot for waving a fake gun and deserves to be killed.
Me? I'll just wait and see if more information comes up. Usually there's more to the story and could lead either way. If he indeed started waving the gun to the customers and did not comply to the officer's warning then it was obvious how that was going to end. Still, I think killing him was a bit too much, maybe shoot him in the leg or something.
Edit: I wonder though, do we even know the cop's race? What if he was african-american? what would GAF say?
On one end, there's the people who think if a cop shoots a black person all fault and doubt goes towards the cops, because all cops are racist.
On the other, there's the people who think the person is an idiot for waving a fake gun and deserves to be killed.
Me? I'll just wait and see if more information comes up. Usually there's more to the story and could lead either way. If he indeed started waving the gun to the customers and did not comply to the officer's warning then it was obvious how that was going to end. Still, I think killing him was a bit too much, maybe shoot him in the leg or something.
Edit: I wonder though, do we even know the cop's race? What if he was african-american? what would GAF say?
SenorArdilla
Member
My problem with the whole "waving the gun at people" was that that testimony came from the same people who were following him and called 911. And eyewitnesses aren't usually the most reliable of evidence due to misattribution of memory and such. This is Walmart so there should be surveillance footage.
speculawyer
Member
Fuck.
I'm sick of this bullshit. :-(
I'm sick of this bullshit. :-(
SliceSabre
Banned
Just another day being black in america. Cops in this country honestly don't know how good they have it. They can kill people at will and never pay for their crimes and the harshest punishment they'll get is a paid vacation for a few weeks.
Honestly, I think they are normally boxed, but I rarely go to Walmart, so I'm not 100%. Basically, as I was leaving the store there was a ton of commotion about "a crazy guy threatening to shoot people" and people were evacuating. So I actually didn't get a look at the guy or the situation. Everything I heard was second hand. RIP to both victims, shitty situation.
And that would be an example of journalists not doing a very good job. One of the articles linked in this thread identified it as an air rifle, right on down to the make and model.
You talk about how this is a typical gaf reaction, and then you post the "disarming shot" that this thread was missing.
KidGalactus
Member
Black cops are susceptible to the same biases as white cops.
You don't feel bad for a person who's shot and killed just for waving a fake gun? If that's even what happened in the first place, it's possible he wasn't waving it and they just shot him for the hell of it.
They could've tased him or something. Why the hell are cops so damn trigger happy?
Omg... you have my sympathies.
Jmanunknown
Member
They will not release the video. Lawsuits will be coming for the police department and walmart. The cops killed someone in the store after a couple racially profiled him.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Nothing wrong with replica firearms. I play airsoft as a hobby and as long as you're careful with them nothing bad should happen. These guns are legal in the vast majority of European countries (and no orange tip is required) and I don't see massive amounts of gun crime happening because of them. Here in the UK we have some of the most ridiculous regulations possible for replicas (two tone in bright colours unless you can prove you're an airsofter,etc.) and it has done absolutely nothing, so regulating airsoft guns and other replicas make no sense at all.
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