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[Bebpo]

I just hope this game's emphasis on 4p coop doesn't hurt the 1p.

Crackdown 1 was fun in 2p coop, but even solo it was a fantasticly fun game. I'll be going through Crackdown 2 solo and I'm hoping it's just as fun and not one of these RE5, Borderlands, LP2 "who cares about the SP, we are designing for COOP" games.

 

[FHIZ]

The thing about Destructoid's reviews a lot of the time is that the numbers never seem to match up with the actual review themselves.

...and I think Jim just loves giving out 4.5s to piss people off.

 

[Mrbob]

I'll never understand the line that seems to exist on GAF...on the internet...where reviews are suddenly something that should be agreed with to the letter and those that are worthless trash.

Agreed, but you completely missed the point of my post pointing out issues and decided to take a defensive route. I wasn't saying the game was bad (and I haven't), but explaining where the disappointment stems from.

I seem to remember CD1 getting all sorts of mediocre, even negative reviews and, yet, disagreed with most if not all of them to find that CD1 was one of the best games of this gen for co-op.

Crackdown reviews were around 83:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/crackdown?q=crackdown

Crackdown 2 reviews are treading significantly lower.

I had only one complaint from that first game and that was that you could scale out to being way too powerful too early with not very much meaningful and satisfying challenge to use it on in the end. That seems to be addressed well in this new one, but maybe with the new stuff they added and changed, I can be satisfied while many others find it to be below minimum effort...I dunno.

From the reviews I've read, it sounds like Crackdown 2 scales the same way. A couple hours into the game zombies aren't even a challenge anymore as your agent is way too powerful.

Sorry if I don't want to take the some reviewers' issues as being true for me...I need to play it for myself and with friends in co-op. CD2 looks to crutch just as much on social enjoyment as any co-op game, so I'll withhold my opinion until I've got play time in.

If the only major addition you wanted from a Crackdown sequel is 4 player co op, you will be happy. If you read the reviews (and you claim you didn't and then automatically dismiss them), you will realize they say the game is still fun to play. But outside of the 4 player co op the game hasn't changed a lot. I personally want more from a 60 dollar sequel to an amazing first game.

I'm still looking forward to getting my final copy tomorrow from Amazon and playing it, but I've definitely lowered the bar for expectations. Could be a good ting.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Well I have this coming from Amazon, but I think I'll return it. Doesn't sound at all like it's worth the price when I could have it in a couple months for far less.

 

[Risette]

Well I have this coming from Amazon, but I think I'll return it. Doesn't sound at all like it's worth the price when I could have it in a couple months for far less.

You can try getting customer support to intercept the package. They did that for mine.

 

[soldat7]

You can try getting customer support to intercept the package. They did that for mine.

Holy crap :lol

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Agreed, but you completely missed the point of my post pointing out issues and decided to take a defensive route. I wasn't saying the game was bad (and I haven't), but explaining where the disappointment stems from.

I didn't say those people didn't have their reasons to be disappointed...I basically said that, even given their stated reasons for their feelings on that first game, I disagreed with them. I'm not saying they're wrong (with CD1 or CD2), I'm saying that I simply didn't agree (with a lot of them on CD1). I wonder how many of them will come from the angle of co-op playthroughs for their assessments in review, because that was my primary experience going through the first game...and that changes a lot if the balancing shifts because of multiple players or not.

Crackdown reviews were around 83:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/crackdown?q=crackdown

Crackdown 2 reviews are treading significantly lower.

Great. I have never given two fucks about score averages and aggregator sites. They're worthless to me outside wanting to know what the general consensus of reviews scores are. And if I don't care for reviews, in general, why do I really care about a misleading and generally uninformative number value representing the average of those scores? See what I'm saying, here? Those scores aren't something I care about and neither are those averages.

From the reviews I've read, it sounds like Crackdown 2 scales the same way. A couple hours in the zombies aren't even a challenge anymore as your agent is way too powerful.

I'll be disappointed if this isn't remedied by starting on the highest difficulty or having appropriately scaled challenge if there are more players involved. Fingers crossed.

If the only major addition you wanted from a Crackdown sequel is 4 player co op, you will be happy. If you read the reviews (and you claim you didn't and then automatically dismiss them), you will realize they say the game is still fun to play. But outside of the 4 player co op the game hasn't changed a lot. I personally want more from a 60 dollar package.

Right, although I stated I wanted a little more than that, that's pretty much what I said earlier. Games are going to be valued differently to different people based on different expectations. Reviews cannot and will not account for that fact because they need to come to a conclusion that requires it to take a stand and defend it.

 

[legend166]

Just the fact that there is a mission structure in this game makes me sad. That's what I loved about Crackdown 1. There was essentially no structure other than opening up islands one at a time.

 

[Mrbob]

You are making my head spin. :lol

We'll just have to agree to disagree on what we want from a Crackdown 2 sequel.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

Very disappointed with the way CD2 turned out. Seems like such a missed opportunity. Instead of building on the success of the first one, they just iterated the shit out of it. Kind of a head scratcher.

On a side note, I recently had to delete my old Crackdown save (it was corrupt) and started fresh. Playing it again from the start actually scratched that Crackdown itch. So I'll wait until this game hits the bargain bins. Which really doesn't take that long these days anyway.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

You are making my head spin. :lol

We'll just have to agree to disagree on what we want from a Crackdown 2 sequel.

:lol Well, basically, I don't care much for reviews. I'm not saying that I don't trust them (as honest), but I generally don't take their conclusions as reasons to change my vector unless I was already on the fence. They're separate opinions that may differ from mine. If they don't like something, I may or may not agree. I am not willing to take their opinions to heart until I can find myself agreeing though personal experience. Some things can and will give me cause of apprehension and worry, while other things said can and will give me a chance to be delighted at the thought and anticipate the game even more. In any case, I'm going to play this for myself and have no intention of stopping that. I'm basically speaking for myself, you know. My minimum bar for CD2 seems lower than yours, and given the content of some reviews, you see reason to worry that the sequel has failed to clear yours. That's just not the case for me. I mean, I may end up feeling burned and disappointed after some playtime...who knows.

 

[Burger]

Order cancelled.

 

[Karram]

After reading GB review I'm glad I cancelled my pre-order. I'm actually thinking about just renting it since I don't like co-op in open world games and multiplayer doesn't sound great.

 

[Mrbob]

:lol Well, basically, I don't care much for reviews. I'm not saying that I don't trust them (as honest), but I generally don't take their conclusions as reasons to change my vector unless I was already on the fence. They're separate opinions that may differ from mine. If they don't like something, I may or may not agree. I am not willing to take their opinions to heart until I can find myself agreeing though personal experience. Some things can and will give me cause of apprehension and worry, while other things said can and will give me a chance to be delighted at the thought and anticipate the game even more. In any case, I'm going to play this for myself and have no intention of stopping that. I'm basically speaking for myself, you know. My minimum bar for CD2 seems lower than yours, and given the content of some reviews, you see reason to worry that the sequel has failed to clear yours. That's just not the case for me. I mean, I may end up feeling burned and disappointed after some playtime...who knows.

Don't forget I'm one of those crazies who needed about 20 Dynasty Warriors games to finally get burnt out on the series, ignoring all reviews on the way. Of course maybe I shouldn't make this info public because it might be a bad thing to state!

Game is coming tomorrow from Amazon. We can co op if we are online at the same time.

 

[bill.cosby]

Reviews notwithstanding, I enjoyed the game for the 4 straight hours I played using the demo timer glitch. And that was without any co-op partners. Went ahead and ordered. $40 ain't too bad

 

[Flavius]

I'd be curious to see John Davison and Luke Smith's impressions of the game, given those two did much to generate my interest in the first title. Caught the GamePro review online...no Davison, but pretty thoughtful and well-stated.

 

[RBH]

I feel all sad reading these reviews and impressions.

I'll still pick the game up down the line, but it's disappointing that it seems to be a step back from the original in various ways.

 

[zero margin]

Will be waiting for the price drop now.

 

[soldat7]

Order cancelled.

Catalina Thorne is winning.

I feel all sad reading these reviews and impressions.

Eh, it's more Crackdown. That's good enough for me.

 

[GhaleonEB]

This is from the IGN article. Everyone should read it; Ruffian is pretty honest about things:

Holy crap, that's way less than I thought. I've calling this an expansion pack to the first Crackdown - orbs, quests, zombies and toys - but given the time they pulled it off in, that's actually quite impressive.

I think when it's all said and done, Microsoft's handling of this potentially epic franchise will be looked back on with a sense of collective exasperation.

 

[Flavius]

You guys are all going to be eating your words when you find out that the Agency helicopter levels up and turns into the ship out of Halo: Reach.

Spoiler

 

[jkanownik]

Will be waiting for the price drop now.

$40 at Dell.com right now

 

[Tadale]

Shame on me for helping to derail this thread, but Destructoid's reviews are horribly written.

 

[CrazedArabMan]

Catalina Thorne is winning.



Eh, it's more Crackdown. That's good enough for me.

Exactly, me and my friend are having a great time in the demo, just screwing around with mag grenades, ramp truck glitch, and stuff like that, it's a game where you go to have fun and forget everything else, and it does it really well to.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

bummer.

oh well, I'll get it for a tenner just as I did with CD 1

 

[soldat7]

$40 at Dell.com right now

And don't forget:

As low as $15.00/month
Dell Preferred Account for PCs, laptops, and computer accessories Apply | Learn More

:lol

 

[Risette]

Holy crap :lol

I hope you don't think it's because of the reviews lol, I just didn't like the demo very much and I forgot to cancel my preorder.

 

[soldat7]

I hope you don't think it's because of the reviews lol, I just didn't like the demo very much and I forgot to cancel my preorder.

No, I just pictured Amazon Agents leaping in front of the UPS truck and kicking it 50 feet off the road to stop your package from being delivered. I have Crackdown on the mind.

 

[xbhaskarx]

I complained about the direction the game was taking numerous times in the initial Crackdown 2 thread (e.g. here, here, here, here), so based on previews my hype was already killed and I didn't preorder. Then I played the godawful demo, and it moved from a buy to a rental. After reading reviews and impressions, I don't think I'll bother at all. What a fucking disaster.

 

[FateBreaker]

Wait a minute, the city map is the same as the first game?

Why isn't this $40?

Ruffian is a small team, and the crew was apparently given 8 months of development time. So, guess the budget, and then guess how much it would take to make a new map.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Ruffian is a small team, and the crew was apparently given 8 months of development time.

You're right, I'm surprised they were able to make it so much shittier in just 8 months... I would think it would take at least 2 years to destroy the things that were great about the original Crackdown as much as they did.
But I guess developers are getting rather efficient with this popular new "just add zombies/mutants" formula of game design...

And don't forget:

Did it live up to Hype +1000000?

 

[Dash Kappei]

Uhmmm... all those review are pretty disappointing.
Does the demo glitch still work?

 

[ReBurn]

$40 at Dell.com right now

Just hit up that deal. I had a $15 Dell gift card that I'd been sitting on for a few months, so I just picked it up for $25. Well, $28 with tax. If it really sucks it'll have a $30-$35 trade in value for the first couple of weeks, so I can always trade it toward something else.

And there's free shipping, too. Right now Dell has free shipping on orders over $50 and since the list price is $59.99 the free shipping still applies.

 

[soldat7]

Did it live up to Hype +1000000?

:lol

I'll let you know in the next day or two.

 

[BrLvgThrChmstry]

Uhmmm... all those review are pretty disappointing.
Does the demo glitch still work?

This. I can't remember when exactly to 'pull the plug' (Ethernet; wired connection). Also, didn't see this info in the OP, does CD2 support 2p local co-op?

 

[C Jones]

$40 at Dell.com right now

Thanks for posting this. I was going to wait for a price drop but I'll bite for $40.

 

[soldat7]

Order cancelled.

I was going to wait for a price drop but I'll bite for $40.

The galaxy is at peace.

Also, didn't see this info in the OP, does CD2 support 2p local co-op?

I don't think so. I'll check and add it to the OP sometime.

 

[Prine]

I complained about the direction the game was taking numerous times in the initial Crackdown 2 thread (e.g. here, here, here, here), so based on previews my hype was already killed and I didn't preorder. Then I played the godawful demo, and it moved from a buy to a rental. After reading reviews and impressions, I don't think I'll bother at all. What a fucking disaster.

SAme. I didnt have much faith in the sequel, everything about it looked like a minimal upgrade. The graphics and shooting is so bad, and demo reminded me of Saints Row 2 (very unpolished, and a disaster of a game).

I hope Ruffian and MS work on a new Crackdown, but start from scratch. To explain further keep the core game mechanics with platforming and leveling, but redo everything else, and ditch the horrid, bland and dull looking art.

 

[Mrbob]

D:

Prine off the Crackdown 2 bandwagon too.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'm much more sympathetic to Ruffian and what they've done now that I've read the IGN article. They were given eight months to make a sequel to one of the most beloved and successful original titles this gen. What they pulled off (seems to be) a remix of the original game. If they had even 18 months, I think they could have done something pretty remarkable.

My respect for Microsoft's studio and franchise management somehow manages to keep dropping. Bungie, FASA, Bizarre, Kinect and now the shameful mistreatment of the Crackdown franchise. Eight months to develop a sequel? Really Microsoft?

 

[Kibbles]

So is the helicopter on top of the Agency Tower or something?

 

[Mrbob]

Yeah that is the biggest disappointment of it all. MS management seems to want Crackdown 2 out as a bullet point than care about the quality of the game. Did MS get this on the "hardcore checklist" before Kinect is out as proof they haven't abandoned the hardcore gamer? Well this hardcore gamer would have loved it if their management team had given this franchise the care it deserves. Ruffian needed more time.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Great. I have never given two fucks about score averages and aggregator sites. They're worthless to me outside wanting to know what the general consensus of reviews scores are. And if I don't care for reviews, in general, why do I really care about a misleading and generally uninformative number value representing the average of those scores? See what I'm saying, here? Those scores aren't something I care about and neither are those averages.

Erm, well that's one of the major uses for aggregation sites.

 

[Shurs]

So is the helicopter on top of the Agency Tower or something?

There's a helipad on Agency Island. I didn't discover it until after I beat the game.

 

[Bebpo]

Also I seem to have bad luck with using amazon credits. I paid for Crackdown 2 using amazon credits that have expired by now, so I'm basically forced to get it (though I can resell it).

Last time I put all my credits into a game was Dante's Inferno and then reviews came out days up to release saying it sucks and don't buy and I was pretty much stuck with it unless I wanted to resell.

Note to self, stop putting amazon credits into iffy games (though I assumed a sequel to Crackdown, one of the best games this gen, would have been a safe bet; seems I was wrong)

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Yeah that is the biggest disappointment of it all. MS management seems to want Crackdown 2 out as a bullet point than care about the quality of the game. Did MS get this on the "hardcore checklist" before Kinect is out as proof they haven't abandoned the hardcore gamer? Well this hardcore gamer would have loved it if their management team had given this franchise the care it deserves. Ruffian needed more time.

I have no idea what they were thinking. Crackdown was roundly derided as being a shitty Halo 3 beta delivery mechanism - before it came out and people saw it was actually quite good. Why Microsoft would take a potentially huge franchise like this and piss it away with a bad sequel is mind-boggling.

 

[Why For?]

I'm much more sympathetic to Ruffian and what they've done now that I've read the IGN article. They were given eight months to make a sequel to one of the most beloved and successful original titles this gen. What they pulled off (seems to be) a remix of the original game. If they had even 18 months, I think they could have done something pretty remarkable.

My respect for Microsoft's studio and franchise management somehow manages to keep dropping. Bungie, FASA, Bizarre, Kinect and now the shameful mistreatment of the Crackdown franchise. Eight months to develop a sequel? Really Microsoft?

I'm in the same boat.

If the worst thing about Crackdown 2 is that it's too much like the first. I'll cop that.

I read a few articles with Ruffian where they said the original engine was borderline unworkable, and they're amazed the first Crackdown was even released.

So that they had 8 months to rework an engine and make a new game is amazing.

Hopefully they get 2 or 3 years with Crackdown 3 and have a brand new engine to use.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Erm, well that's one of the major uses for aggregation sites.

I meant that only if I wanted to see what the numbers looked like for the sake of argument when talking about score averages. Publishers and developers might care as it could well figure into their agreements and, maybe, a consideration for future work together. What value do those averages really hold when they rarely seem to be much of consistent force in determining sales? Certainly, the higher the average, the better it looks...maybe adding a very small (but difficult-to-determine) percentage of sales, overall. GOTY awards probably do more to help sales than a high Metacritic value because of their visibility-raising potential all throughout the year and during holiday season. In any case, they don't hold much value if any when talking about the actual quality of a game since that is something to be determined by each individual player. Personally, the average score doesn't figure in for me and I'll take to those well-reasoned and -written reviews from reviewers whose opinions I understand in those few times that I'm on the fence about a particular title rather than look at average number across the spectrum.

 

[soldat7]

So a B- (1UP Review) equates to a 67% on Metacritic? I wish my school had graded like that.

 

[krypt0nian]

Very disappointed with the way CD2 turned out. Seems like such a missed opportunity. Instead of building on the success of the first one, they just iterated the shit out of it. Kind of a head scratcher.

On a side note, I recently had to delete my old Crackdown save (it was corrupt) and started fresh. Playing it again from the start actually scratched that Crackdown itch. So I'll wait until this game hits the bargain bins. Which really doesn't take that long these days anyway.

As painful as it is for me to say, this is what I did too. Sticking with the Boss until this is sub $20.

Fuck you, Ruffian.

Hold me, MrBob, hold me...