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Crimson Dragon |OT| This Orta be good
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
KillerIsJed
Member
I just don't know that I'll get in trouble of some sort? I'm not under any NDA or anything. Just it technically is a game that wasn't supposed to be released so... If anyone has more advice, I'd appreciate it.
Really, if it has the same bosses and stage designs as the XB1 version, I'd rather it not be out there until the XB1 has been out for at least a few days, to give people the chance to see it all fresh, without spoilers floating around.
I appreciate the idea, and it could even be a positive way for people to see how much has changed between versions... but I wouldn't watch it until after some comfortable time with the XB1 release.
Would Microsoft / Grounding & Co. Have an issue? I don't know... Japanese people are very strict about citing origin and creators of work, and giving applicable credit to anything shown off... someone MIGHT have an issue, but they also might just be glad that the public gets to see the potentially never-to-be-released work. *shrug*
I appreciate the idea, and it could even be a positive way for people to see how much has changed between versions... but I wouldn't watch it until after some comfortable time with the XB1 release.
Would Microsoft / Grounding & Co. Have an issue? I don't know... Japanese people are very strict about citing origin and creators of work, and giving applicable credit to anything shown off... someone MIGHT have an issue, but they also might just be glad that the public gets to see the potentially never-to-be-released work. *shrug*
KillerIsJed
Member
Or I could play it tonight and if people choose to watch it or not they can. I will tell you that it is probably the best Kinect game I've ever played as far as functionality and fun factor. I can't imagine it would hurt the title, if anything help it.
Edit: Didn't mean to sound like a dick. Sorry.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
If you're not under NDA, then do it whenever you want to. People who don't want to watch it can... not watch it. If they wanna check it out later, it'll be archived.
KillerIsJed
Member
I think I'm going to stream around 12:30am EST or so, if anyone cares to watch
Edit: Stream is done. Played through the first boss. Replay can be found here.
Edit: Stream is done. Played through the first boss. Replay can be found here.
I'm in, curious to see what it looks like.
Chobel
Member
GAF>Internet>GAF
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Well, they've updated the game pre-launch following feedback:
http://news.xbox.com/2013/11/games-crimson-dragon-updates
http://news.xbox.com/2013/11/games-crimson-dragon-updates
Ha, no worries!
I don't know much about twitch...so if it gets archived then all is good. I was just figuring a stream would get a lot more interested viewers after the game releases so we don't have to spoil.
HueyFreeman
Banned
Looks like the Kinect interface is pretty janky, dragon movement is really rough.
I have to say - there are flashes of that incredible PD art style here, but overall it's a really mixed bag. Man, that sucks. Hopefully it garners enough attention that Sega sees fit to release a PD collection
Otherwise this might be the last hint we see of the series.MightyHedgehog
Member
Well, it looks like this is the one launch title that gets critically panned and I'm just not that convinced because I have got quite a bit of pent-up desire to play this for years now. Will hope that their pre-release tweaks address the most serious issues.
Eh, glad you just streamed the first section. It's not about "who wants to see and who doesn't", it's more about the direction of conversation that a product should be allowed before release.
You sounded as if you were going to show everything you could of the previous version, and I just think that'd be more negative than positive, not necessarily to just your watchers, but to the final release product itself. But just a section is no worse than a preview, so not so much a problem.
This sounds good in a way, but I wonder if these are even the issues people have with it? I don't know where the panic about "buying continues" came from; weeks of streaming made it very clear that continues were easy to come by through normal play, and that their only purpose is to allow you to continue from where you died, without losing items. It's not like, say, the JoJo's game, or Tekken Revolution, where you can't advance or play until "charges" or "coins" return.
Why do "series fans" freak out about such a thing anyway? Compared to the dime-a-dozen FPS and Modern "Mature" games, this game probably won't sell anywhere near what it deserved, even if it was the best of all the launch games. "Oh no, a company might make an extra buck or 2 off an impatient fan! How evil!"
I think those changes just sounds like they'll make it easier for players to get into the game, without getting frustrated early on, which may have happened to many impatient, continue-freely, no-effort-to-win game reviewers now-a-days. But that probably won't fix the real issues people seem to have, and that is the fact that it's not an exact PD clone.
People often blame Kinect for these changes, but to me it also sounds like Futatsugi tried to add some modern depth to the game, but people overlook all of that, and just focus on the fact that spinning around the camera might be a little less robotic (no 45 degree shifts, more like leaning into each view), and more loose.
Changes / shifts such as having actual decipherable language, elemental affinities for attacks, selectable wingmen, easy ways to score run, free dragon growth and selection, player profile progression leading to unlocks, and reusing of environments less as separate paths on the same map, but instead as separate stages that reuse the map, all seem like good changes to try and progress PD into something that could be seen as a solid modern downloadable title.
Oh well, hopefully, I get a chance to play for myself, and see how this is tonight! I really never feel like modern reviewers know how to look at games like this. Some of my favorite games end up being things that get mediocre review scores, because were I see something that tries to harken back to days modern big-budget games don't give me, with obvious elements of passion and creativity applied, they just see something antiquated and lower-budget than some comparable western release.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Yep, totally agree. Hyped to play this.
piratepwnsninja
Member
Not sure what is so "oh my" about that statement. It's absolutely true that devs can store things that would be tweak values in the cloud ago that they get instantly pushed when someone plays the game. The contents of such would be so small, too, that it could be actively read from during play.
It's just a silly statement. Yesterday they would have called it "a patch". Now they call it "the power of the cloud".
Alx
Member
That looks great even on 360, I'm still hesitating if that game or Killer Instinct will be my third game on the One.
That system (in the phone version) gave me familiar feelings, from the time I was playing in arcades. Not entirely positive, since I always refused to pay to continue (unless I feel I'm really close to finishing the game), but not entirely negative, because it adds a lot of excitement and makes you fear death.
In the end, I would advise players not to use gems as continues, especially since it will be much more efficient (and enjoyable) to improve your skills and upgrade your dragon. The gems will be much more useful to buy new abilities.
piratepwnsninja
Member
It's not a patch.
I'm glad to hear they are making changes. The thing I noticed from Gamespot's stream is that when bombarded by enemies the difficulty came from the fact that you had to be rolling every second to dodge attacks since the movement of the dragon wasn't fast enough.
I was getting this and KI at launch originally, but now I think I am getting Forza instead. I loved the Saturn games and Orta, and was hyped about this game despite lack of information for months. I really don't know how it will turn out. I want to support the series, hope there is a demo so I can get a feel for it. I didn't care about review scores, however when I read reviews that specifically mentioned the reviewers love for the PD series and how disappointing this was, I got worried.
I think they should have made the game level based (like the originals) instead of mission based. In PD when you fly through a level and encounter new creatures it is a really cool experience. In CD they stop you to show a cutscene of the monster appearing and you get a commander lady calling you telling you about everything. Let the players experience this stuff naturally. I hope there is a way to turn her off.
SlaughterX
Banned
Disappointed with the low review scores but the fact that it's only $20 and there isn't an awful lot of other games I want on the One means I just might get it...
KillerIsJed
Member
I think the adapter on my Kinect makes it that way, shakey. If I play without it, it will be smooth, but I can't control shit.
dancrane212
Member
I liked the bit I played yesterday, I didn't realize you were able to pan the camera from side to side similar to Panzer Dragoon (No option to "jump" from side to side though which slows things down compared to PD). I also found the camera to be too close to the player dragon though, wish there was a way to move it back so things didn't feel as cramped.
The actual game feels enough like PD that I'm enjoying it, can definitely see where the complaints are coming from though. The game does feel rough at parts.
The soundtrack sounds great though, no complaints with it here!
Thanks for recording that, it's interesting to see the changes made for the XB1 version compared to the 360 game.
NoirVisage
Banned
thanks, I'll actually watch the replay during lunch!
not only is your name wrong, but you are just wrong.
Anticitizen One
Banned
So whats the GAF verdict?
piratepwnsninja
Member
I'm wrong? You're telling me something I've actually seen implemented in a game I've worked on and utilized didn't actually exist? That's cool.
edit: And that was last gen, too.
Alx
Member
I bought it and had a quick go at the first two levels... Too early for detailed impressions, it's quite nice, but the controls felt funny. After playing Child of Eden with kinect or the phone version of CD, aiming with a stick feels quite imprecise. And having to control the dragon in addition to aiming makes it harder.
Anyway it's quite enjoyable, and there is obviously a lot of things to unlock and upgrade (dragons, abilities, sidekicks, ...). It's a bit daunting actually, I'm not sure I should start feeding and upgrading my dragon, or keep some items for the other dragons I'll probably unlock later.
Anyway it's quite enjoyable, and there is obviously a lot of things to unlock and upgrade (dragons, abilities, sidekicks, ...). It's a bit daunting actually, I'm not sure I should start feeding and upgrading my dragon, or keep some items for the other dragons I'll probably unlock later.
Anticitizen One
Banned
Are you kidding me? Only like 2 or 3 Gaffers bought this game? We need some real detailed impressions here.
dancrane212
Member
After playing more today here's some late night thoughts.
- Music is great, very much in the same vein as previous Panzer Dragoon soundtracks.
- Controlling the dragon is, for lack of a better term, floaty. Maybe this is something that improves as the dragon levels up?
- Having to control your dragon while aiming a separate reticule takes time to get used to, especially when the camera is facing behind you.
- Haven't run into any issues with microtransactions yet, though it is pretty gross getting achievements for using things that can be bought with real money (as an incentive to try them).
- Only been to a couple areas (reused by levels) but they all look nice, the game itself looks good artistically but it's easy to see the game's roots as a 360 title.
- Game is good to swap over to for 20-30 minutes sessions, lends itself well to short bursts.
- There is quite a bit of depth to some of the mechanics (your dragon's elemental attribute, what wingman you choose, what skills you teach your dragon). It's a bit overwhelming at first but I think I've got the hang of it.
- Music is great, very much in the same vein as previous Panzer Dragoon soundtracks.
- Controlling the dragon is, for lack of a better term, floaty. Maybe this is something that improves as the dragon levels up?
- Having to control your dragon while aiming a separate reticule takes time to get used to, especially when the camera is facing behind you.
- Haven't run into any issues with microtransactions yet, though it is pretty gross getting achievements for using things that can be bought with real money (as an incentive to try them).
- Only been to a couple areas (reused by levels) but they all look nice, the game itself looks good artistically but it's easy to see the game's roots as a 360 title.
- Game is good to swap over to for 20-30 minutes sessions, lends itself well to short bursts.
- There is quite a bit of depth to some of the mechanics (your dragon's elemental attribute, what wingman you choose, what skills you teach your dragon). It's a bit overwhelming at first but I think I've got the hang of it.
Well I played it and beaten the 1st level, but I'm playing Dead Rising 3 and Killer Instinct a lot more.
Bought the game today, played KI all last night, sooo... XD
Ok, random notes and details time! - Please note all these opinions are based on CLASSIC difficulty.
Looks:
Sounds!:
Controls:
Side Section: WINGMAN!:
Game Play "Feeling" and Notes:
Microtransactions? In game Purchases?
So far, I see no reason to ever buy credits.
Current Thoughts: This is an interesting take on the evolution of this genre. It focuses a bit more on using it's underlying mechanics, rather than straight shooting and dodging, like the days of old. This seems like it may hurt it's initial presentation, and may make the player feel a bit weak and poor to start. However, sticking with it seems to have obvious rewards, and I get the feeling it'll grow on me more and more as I play. It's RPG-ish elements are actually welcomed to me; it gives just one more thing to take away from high-score runs, with in game payoffs of evolutions and new attacks alongside them.
Ok, random notes and details time! - Please note all these opinions are based on CLASSIC difficulty.
Looks:
- I love the colors and designs. Gives that "HD Dreamcast" feel, which I mean as a compliment!
- The only thing "dated" looking about it is the geometric simplicity (You can see the edges on your dragon when close up, for instance), but it's sharp and nicely designed overall.
- Some of the dragon colors, however, are just... Odd? The "Dark" Day one Dragon you get is the kind of shade of color you wouldn't expect to see used normally, it's not entirely pleasant to the eye.
- The UI is nice enough, and I actually like this "Community Meld" feature of MSStudios games. It looks like a part of the game, but it houses community info and updates. As games now-a-days are always updating and changing, it's great to have something fit-to-the-game that will update us on all these things.
Sounds!:
- Invigorating, inspiring stuff, reminds of the games of old. It fits well, but it's not OVERLY IN YOUR FACE like something such as KI, and isn't trying TOO HARD to get your attention.
- I rather like the sound effects for shooting, kills, etc. They go off at the right times, and the rhythm of it all reminds me of PD well. Gotta love listening to those lock-ons...
Controls:
- Your starting dragons have low agility. They feel heavy, and depend on barrel-rolling for dodging shots. They don't have that nice "Lean right, and watch as you are grazed by shots" feel to them, that is common in games like this and Rez. It's a bit more demanding.
- There should REALLY be an option on the Left / right of D-Pad to get the old "robotic motion" PD style 45 degree angle shift. This would make it easier for you to quickly shift the camera in front or behind you.
- HOWEVER, this isn't necessary, because that's what your wingman technically is for.
Side Section: WINGMAN!:
- The reviews that call him useless don't pay any attention!
- In the start of the game, you're weak. You can't lock on to many enemies, and have no explosives weapons. Hence, enter the Wingman.
- He perfects your attacks, and will make getting ranks much more reasonable.
- You press UP on D-pad to set him before you. Up here, he attacks things even before they start attacking you, which really helps clear groups. This is needed for item collection.
- Press D-Pad DOWN, and he goes behind you. Perfect for catching the one or 2 enemies that slip past you, to again, help you clear those waves.
- He's the extra control that rounds out the unique design decisions. He allows you to do your "full screen explosion" blast, and can even have unique elements, so he can do more damage to things that resist your elements. He's a core part of this game.
Game Play "Feeling" and Notes:
- The slow agility at first really works against you. I have to play on further to see if higher speed makes movement more "natural" feeling.
- Old PD games were balanced to a singular, common dragon that evolved in stages. CD isn't made this way.
- Instead, these stages are designed to make you want to grind them with different elements, abilities, and Ampule (limited use buffs.)
- Hence, It's a bit more loosely designed. You start off just getting by with kills, barely making enough scores for grades, etc.
- This helps make it really satisfying to actually bring and attack with the right "loadout"
Microtransactions? In game Purchases?
So far, I see no reason to ever buy credits.
- Prices:
- 1.99 - 6 Jewels
- 4.99 - 20 Jewels
- 9.99 - 45 Jewels
- You receive jewels for getting medals.
- You can buy everything but the "Drago Hunter Pack" (A collection of random buffs and items) with In game credits.
- The game has freebie "Daily login" items it gives you.
- Credits drop pretty often, as long as you fight well.
- Everything else (Dragons, item packs, continues) can be bought with in-game gold, which you will likely have an abundance of it you play the game for score and item hunting.
Current Thoughts: This is an interesting take on the evolution of this genre. It focuses a bit more on using it's underlying mechanics, rather than straight shooting and dodging, like the days of old. This seems like it may hurt it's initial presentation, and may make the player feel a bit weak and poor to start. However, sticking with it seems to have obvious rewards, and I get the feeling it'll grow on me more and more as I play. It's RPG-ish elements are actually welcomed to me; it gives just one more thing to take away from high-score runs, with in game payoffs of evolutions and new attacks alongside them.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
This game is getting multiplayer soon. I just read that in the news section. That will be cool.
GayForMaster
Banned
lol dem reviews
MightyHedgehog
Member
Good look, SAB CA. I can't wait to dig into it later, but I have to say that, in my brief time with it so far, the heavy dragon you control in the beginning hurts first impressions a bit. I found myself half-dodging with my head via Kinect and switching to bumpers in more heated moments. Looking forward to playing more.
Aw man, I just checked out some of this game's OST and it's reallllly cool. Ugh, sort of want an XBOX One now (lol!). Must resist. Gotta admit, the launch library is far more interesting to me than the PS4's. I picked up my PS4 last week and other than Knack and Resogun, system's pretty boring right now. I want more Japanese games like this!!
EDIT: Alright, I think it's been decided. I'm going to have to get this system for this game I think. Music is god-like. I think I may pick up the system when D4 drops. D4 and Crimson Dragon were the two main games I was interested in from this system. They're probably not going anywhere, right? For some reason I thought D4 was a launch game because otherwise I'd start hunting for one right now, lol!
EDIT: Alright, I think it's been decided. I'm going to have to get this system for this game I think. Music is god-like. I think I may pick up the system when D4 drops. D4 and Crimson Dragon were the two main games I was interested in from this system. They're probably not going anywhere, right? For some reason I thought D4 was a launch game because otherwise I'd start hunting for one right now, lol!
Uncle Dukey
Member
SAB CA gave a pretty good summary of the game. My apologies if my impressions sound like a bit of a rehash. I agree with most of their points, but so far I dislike the new structure of the game.
Your dragons start out underpowered, and you have to play levels multiple times to level up your dragon and get random drops which give you additional skills and buffs. You can also purchase randomized packs that give you the chance of getting those same things. This can be done with currency earned in game, or with currency paid for with real money. The structure of this reminds me a little bit of Mass Effect 3's multiplayer, where you played matches to get randomized packs of weapons/characters/etc except not nearly as bad.
The game also allows you to purchase revive crystals. They allow you to revive yourself if you lose all your health rather than failing the mission and losing the items you found during the mission. This could have been really sketchy, but the game gives you enough credits where you don't feel obligated to pay money.
Visually it looks fine but the fact that it runs at 30 fps is really disappointing and it can't even maintain that in some scenes. I would have been much more forgiving to the game if it ran at 60 fps, especially given it's pedigree as an Xbox 360 title. The fluidity that was in Orta is sorely missed here.
Still, I see the potential. I'm hoping that as the dragons level up and the amount of skills to choose from increase that the game will feel better. It's not what I was hoping for, but I think it could grow on me. Once the dragons become more powerful and responsive going for the challenges tied to each level could be more fun and less frustrating.
Your dragons start out underpowered, and you have to play levels multiple times to level up your dragon and get random drops which give you additional skills and buffs. You can also purchase randomized packs that give you the chance of getting those same things. This can be done with currency earned in game, or with currency paid for with real money. The structure of this reminds me a little bit of Mass Effect 3's multiplayer, where you played matches to get randomized packs of weapons/characters/etc except not nearly as bad.
The game also allows you to purchase revive crystals. They allow you to revive yourself if you lose all your health rather than failing the mission and losing the items you found during the mission. This could have been really sketchy, but the game gives you enough credits where you don't feel obligated to pay money.
Visually it looks fine but the fact that it runs at 30 fps is really disappointing and it can't even maintain that in some scenes. I would have been much more forgiving to the game if it ran at 60 fps, especially given it's pedigree as an Xbox 360 title. The fluidity that was in Orta is sorely missed here.
Still, I see the potential. I'm hoping that as the dragons level up and the amount of skills to choose from increase that the game will feel better. It's not what I was hoping for, but I think it could grow on me. Once the dragons become more powerful and responsive going for the challenges tied to each level could be more fun and less frustrating.
AndoCalrissian
Member
Bought this, but dislike the controls. I'd be a lot more into it if they patched in aim/move dragon onto the same stick, but that seems highly unlikely.
Still happy to support because we don't see many games with this type of art style or flying rail shooters anymore, but I don't think I'll play it much.
Still happy to support because we don't see many games with this type of art style or flying rail shooters anymore, but I don't think I'll play it much.
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