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[frontieruk]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned in this thread (27 pages is too much to backread), but whenever the theories about Luke being Rey's father come up, I'm reminded of Maz's lines in TFA. I haven't seen TFA in a while, so my memory is hazy, but I thought after Rey touches the lightsaber and has her visions, Maz says something to the effect of "your old family abandoned you, but you have a new family waiting for you, a.k.a. Luke." I'm definitely paraphrasing, and maybe I'm adding too much of my own interpretation, but I do remember thinking that Maz's lines implied that Luke was not Rey's old family. Am I totally misremembering what Maz said in that scene?

Anyways, if I'm remembering Maz's lines correctly, that evidence combined with Daisy Ridley's quotes here make me think that Rey is a nobody.

Maz Kanata: [to Rey] That lightsaber was Luke's. And his father's before him. And now, it calls to you.

Hints at lineage don't you think?

Maz Kanata: Dear child. I see your eyes. You already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku... they're never coming back... But... there's someone who still could.
Rey: Luke.
Maz Kanata: The belonging you seek is not behind you... it is ahead. I am no Jedi, but I know the Force. It moves through and surrounds every living thing. Close your eyes... Feel it... The light... it's always been there. It will guide you. The saber. Take it.
Rey: I'm never touching that thing again. I don't want any part of this

At no point in the film is it mentioned that it's Rey's parents that leave her there, implied maybe, but it could also be someone who is really well known to her.

Watch the vision again.

The sequence of events begin in what appears to be Cloud City, then as Rey - a little girl laying in the rain (but Rey the adult is remembering herself there). Please note that Rey is about to be killed by someone with a very distinct helmet. All of a sudden we see a red saber spear the would-be killer and save Rey.
The camera pulls back and we see that the holder of that weapon is Kylo, surrounded by the KOR and the dead bodies of students of Luke's Academy. Rey sees Kylo's mask, camera focuses on his mask and directly cuts to the scene of her being left on Jakku.

The assumption made from this is Kylo, left her (which ties in with everyone's fascination with Kylo's awareness of a special girl on Jakku), Kylo being family would illicit the sort of response Rey shows, it would also make Luke's motivation for hiding himself away after the school massacre thinking his daughter was also dead more likely.

 

[SpaceWolf]

If she's Obi Wan's grandkid they might as well put a "Find out their story in the Obi Wan: A Star Wars Story trilogy!"ad in the corner during the reveal.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

The assumption made from this is Kylo, left her (which ties in with everyone's fascination with Kylo's awareness of a special girl on Jakku), Kylo being family would illicit the sort of response Rey shows, it would also make Luke's motivation for hiding himself away after the school massacre thinking his daughter was also dead more likely.

The massacre hadn't occurred six years before TFA as Ben was still training with Luke. Rey's 19 in TFA and younger than 13 when she's dropped off on Jakku. She wasn't dropped off there because of the massacre.

 

[rec0ded1]

I knew she was watto's and Bobba fett's love child.

 

[Zornack]

The massacre hadn't occurred six years before TFA as Ben was still training with Luke. Rey's 19 in TFA and older than 13 when she's dropped off on Jakku.

This kid is supposed to be older than 13?

 

[WadiumArcadium]

This kid is supposed to be older than 13?

Ha, I meant younger. Brain fart.

 

[golem]

Her being a Kenobi while Kylo is an evil Skywalker is like poetry... it rhymes.

Finally a Kenobi will rise to put that trash ass force family out of its misery lawd.gif

 

[FeD.nL]

In regards to Rey being a nobody, Pablo Hidalgo (the one in charge of maintaining the canon) tweeted this out not to long ago:

Her being a nobody is likely of the table.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Hints at lineage don't you think?.

Lightsaber Crystals call out to their wielder regardless of their lineage. Ahsoka Tano's white crystal lightsabers were originally part of one of the Inquisitor's lightsabers, but they chose her as their wielder. This was revealed in Ahsoka's solo novel, all canon to the current SW universe.

 

[Gotchaye]

It's not complicated and you don't need to have all of this explained anymore than people needed to know how Luke and Leia could be twins and not know while also not knowing that Vader was their father.

What? We're explicitly told that they were hidden away in order to keep them safe from the Emperor. This happens at the same time that Luke finds out he has a sister at all.

And the sillyness of "Who is Obi-wan?" After he's been in 5 of the 7 movies and the entirety of The Clone Wars is a perfect example of trying to make everything seem more complicated than it is. Anyone who goes to watch Star Wars Episode 8 is going to either be familiar with the mainline movies or at the very very VERY least understand that they're jumping into an established universe late and will not understand everything.

They are obviously not going to tell Rey that she's Obi-Wan's grandkid and then everyone nods and moves on without an explanation about who Obi-Wan was and some comments about how he had a kid that nobody knew about before this. You don't have to do this additional explanation if she's Luke's kid, since Luke is already a character in Ep 7 and Ep 8 and it's totally plausible that he had a kid 20 years ago, although you probably do need to show her mother at least briefly. Likewise we didn't need much prep work to explain Ren being Han and Leia's kid after the movie tells us that he is.

Rey's grandmother could be Satine or it could be someone else. Being Satine makes it a nice nod to The Clone Wars and makes sense though. They're going to have to explain why Rey was abandoned anyways, so that doesn't change. And they will have to explain why Rey is significant to Luke and Kylo already as well.

Right, Rey's abandonment and mysterious parentage need to be explained. They really only make sense as storytelling choices if existing characters from Ep 7 were heavily involved. Luke being her father lets you get through this pretty efficiently and opens up easy storytelling possibilities later. Her parents being nobodies is a bit weird but you can pass over that quickly as you're explaining that Ren or whoever was onto her and Luke hid her away. Obi-Wan being her grandfather just doesn't add anything to this. It's a lot of extra work to make what's ultimately just "a nice nod", and of course if they're just after a fan-pleasing moment it's going to be hard to beat "Rey, I am your father".

I mean, I'm not saying that they won't make her be Obi-Wan's kid. I'm just saying it'd be a weird (and poor) storytelling choice. Kind of like doing a new Star Wars movie where now there's a Death Star but even bigger and more dangerous. But at least that you can understand as Disney trying to show that they can make something in the spirit of the OT.

 

[Manmademan]

I mean, the main reason to doubt it's Obi-Wan is just that that requires a lot more boring exposition for not much gain. It's not that it's hugely weirder for Obi-Wan to have had a secret kid who had a secret kid who was abandoned on Jakku than for Luke to have had a secret kid who was abandoned on Jakku, but if you're the one writing the story this seems like malpractice.

Having Rey be Luke's (or for that matter Leia's) kid is a lot easier to explain because of course we don't know what Luke's been up to since Episode 6, and Luke is right there. Obi-Wan hasn't even been a real character since Episode 4 - you have to explain why he's important - and then people who remember him are going to need an explanation for why this kid of his never came up in the original trilogy. And then you're going to need someone to explain this who has to explain how they know about it in the first place. It also then becomes a lot harder to link her to other characters in significant ways. "I am your father" and "I am your aunt" and "I am your cousin" instantly establish relationships in ways that "Your grandfather was my first teacher" and "I saw your grandfather die and apparently he helped me escape the Death Star but I never spoke to him" and "Yeah wasn't he like some old guy my parents met once and then for some reason they named me after him?" just don't. This is Spaceballs.

Uh, obi wan was a central character of episodes 1-3, which while chronologically take place before episode 4 in the canon, were RELEASED well after it in 1999, 2002, and 2005, in addition to the animated stuff. Luke hasn't appeared in a starwars movie or TV series for more than 30 seconds or with any dialogue since 1983.

We also know that Disney/Lucasfilm either are or were planning standalone Obi Wan movies starring ewan mcgregor to be released as side stories like Rogue One.

These movies would show what Obi Wan was doing in the 20 year gap or whatever between Episode 3 and Episode 4.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Ewan-McGregor-Being-Courted-Obi-Wan-Kenobi-Trilogy-71818.html

Now why would they want to do a thing like that? Why bother if he isn't important to episode 7-9?

Rey is a kenobi, kids. might as well deal with it now.

 

[SpaceWolf]

We also know that Disney/Lucasfilm either are or were planning standalone Obi Wan movies starring ewan mcgregor to be released as side stories like Rogue One.

No, this was an unsubstantiated rumour.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Ewan's said a few times Lucasfilm haven't approached him yet. You'd think it's a no-brainer but it doesn't sound like there's been any movement. Kathy Kennedy said they'd be discussing the slate post-Han's film after Rogue One released.

Another storyline fans have expressed interest in seeing include an Obi-Wan Kenobi movie, possibly with Ewan McGregor reprising the role of the Jedi knight from the prequels. The actor himself has been enthusiastic about such an idea, if it were to happen.

Lucasfilm isn’t tipping its hand about new titles yet. They’re waiting until after Rogue One‘s debut to begin figuring that out.

“There are [possible movies] that we have been talking a lot about,” Kennedy says. “But we are planning to sit down in January, since we will have had The Force Awakens released, now Rogue One, and we’ve finished shooting Episode VIII. We have enough information where we can step back a little bit and say, What are we doing? What do we feel is exciting? And what are some of the things we want to explore?”

 

[funkystudent]

I think they will do whatever they want and any hints in TFA will easily be tossed aside in future movies if they want to go another direction for some reason.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Ewan's said a few times Lucasfilm haven't approached him yet. You'd think it's a no-brainer but it doesn't sound like there's been any movement. Kathy Kennedy said they'd be discussing the slate post-Han's film after Rogue One released.

For god's sake Kennedy, hardly any Star Wars fans actually want a damn spin-off about Han Solo (who won't be Harrison Ford) or Boba Fett (who's weird ass origins have already been covered). We want Obi-Wan, damn you...stop stalling.

 

[Manmademan]

No, this was an unsubstantiated rumour.

Ewan's said a few times Lucasfilm haven't approached him yet. You'd think it's a no-brainer but it doesn't sound like there's been any movement. Kathy Kennedy said they'd be discussing the slate post-Han's film after Rogue One released.

everything is "unsubstantiated rumor" until it's confirmed.

there were reports from more than one source that talks were happening around the concept, but that's all anyone knows. Disney of course isn't going to say anything in advance, because why would they?

edit: more rumor, different site:

"”I have heard rumors that the one reason they haven't moved sooner on Obi-Wan is that they're not done with Obi-Wan quite yet in the saga films. So I wouldn't be surprised to see an Obi-Wan [solo film] happen beyond ‘Episode IX',""

http://collider.com/star-wars-obi-wan-kenobi-solo-movie-update/

Disney still has plans for Obi-Wan. They're not done with the character. I believe there's also a (canon) comic marvel is running that shows some of the events of what he was doing after episode IV, but I don't keep up with the SW comics.

 

[golem]

For god's sake Kennedy, hardly any Star Wars fans actually want a damn spin-off about Han Solo (who won't be Harrison Ford) or Boba Fett (who's weird ass origins have already been covered). We want Obi-Wan, damn you...stop stalling.

I'm staring to think Kennedy was the wrong choice for that position. She definitely doesn't seem to be a Feige who has a pretty masterful grasp of the story he wants to tell and the talent he wants to tell it with. I mean the writer of Monster Trucks is writing Episode XI? Smh.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

If she's Obi Wan's grandkid they might as well put a "Find out their story in the Obi Wan: A Star Wars Story trilogy!"ad in the corner during the reveal.

They might as well have done that with the last 2 movies.

"Whats the First Order, I thought the Rebels won in ROTJ? What is the New Republic, who are the Resistance and why is it separate?
"Who the fuck is Rey?"

"Read all the books and visual guides"
"Watch Episode VIII"

"Who is Saw Guerra, what is his deal? Who is Krennic and why does he hate this guy Tarkin so much? What the fuck are the Whills and guardians of the them?"
"Hope" Hope for what?"

"Read the books, visual guides, Clone Wars and Rebels"
"Watch ANH"

 

[Cheebo]

They might as well have done that with the last 2 movies.

"Whats the First Order, I thought the Rebels won in ROTJ? What is the New Republic, who are the Resistance and why is it separate?
"Who the fuck is Rey?"

"Read all the books and visual guides"
"Watch Episode VIII"

"Who is Saw Guerra, what is his deal? Who is Krennic and why does he hate this guy Tarkin so much? What the fuck are the Whills and guardians of the them?"
"Hope" Hope for what?"

"Read the books, visual guides, Clone Wars and Rebels"
"Watch ANH"

Expecting people to watch the other movies and watch the two tv shows really isn't an unfair expectation.

If you watch the main movies you get the general gist, if you want the whole overall story you have to watch the tv shows as well. If you want to nitty gritty OCD level details you need the books.

 

[Davide]

For god's sake Kennedy, hardly any Star Wars fans actually want a damn spin-off about Han Solo (who won't be Harrison Ford) or Boba Fett (who's weird ass origins have already been covered). We want Obi-Wan, damn you...stop stalling.

I didn't think I wanted a movie about stealing the Death Star plans and yet Rogue One is now my favourite of the eight films. I have a lot of trust in the writers/producers.

And Rey really should be Luke's.

 

[Manmademan]

I didn't think I wanted a movie about stealing the Death Star plans and yet Rogue One is now my favourite of the eight films. I have a lot of trust in the writers/producers.

And Rey really should be Luke's.

Nah.

having her be Luke's means you need to come up with an extremely contrived reason why Luke left her in the desert for 20 years by herself despite being the most powerful jedi in the galaxy who could sense her easily, AND you need to explain why no one in the galaxy including his sister seems to know he has a kid, or even a relationship in the first place.


Could you come up with a scenario where she's his? yeah sure. But it would be a lot more nonsense than being someone down obi-wan's family tree.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

For god's sake Kennedy, hardly any Star Wars fans actually want a damn spin-off about Han Solo (who won't be Harrison Ford) or Boba Fett (who's weird ass origins have already been covered). We want Obi-Wan, damn you...stop stalling.

If Han is an Imperial for at least 1/3 I will take it, otherwise I agree.
Boba definitely has more potential, however only really care if its post ROTJ.
Obi-Wan I don't care if its Obi-Wan sitting in the desert for 2 hours, im in day1.
Same for an Ahsoka spinoff.

 

[Surfinn]

Or you know as with everything else in TFA it could just be mirroring the scene between Obi and Luke on the Falcon where Obi gets Luke to feel the force on demand for the first time and tells him "you've taken your first step into a larger world"

Rey having seen the past and the future in her vision could be seen as different 'steps'.

As Obi trained Anakin, he trained Luke it would make sense that his spirit would would reveal itself to another Skywalker about to embark on the path of the force, perhaps even influencing the vision to help Rey choose the path of light?

I think there was a specific reason why they called Ewan in to record that line otherwise they would have just spliced/reused the same line from ANH.

 

[Davide]

Nah.

having her be Luke's means you need to come up with an extremely contrived reason why Luke left her in the desert for 20 years by herself despite being the most powerful jedi in the galaxy who could sense her easily, AND you need to explain why no one in the galaxy including his sister seems to know he has a kid, or even a relationship in the first place.


Could you come up with a scenario where she's his? yeah sure. But it would be a lot more nonsense than being someone down obi-wan's family tree.

It would be way less stupid than having her be a grandchild of Obi-Wan Kenobi. For better or worse, Anakin breaks the Jedi Code in the prequels by getting married and having kids. Obi-Wan tells him he will be expelled from the Jedi Order for going back for Padme on Geonosis because he cares about her. To suddenly give Obi-Wan a family and kids would be super-hypocritical and come out of nowhere for him at least within the films. Obi-Wan (and Yoda) represented the orthodox way of thinking for the old Jedi Order. I'd take her being a random over a Kenobi. And what does it contribute to the story anyway? Nothing.

You don't know that Luke could sense Rey if she was alive. Vader couldn't sense he had living kids for twenty years. Or that Leia standing in front of him was his own daughter. The easiest explanation is abducted by Snoke.

 

[jetpacks was yes]

Nah.

having her be Luke's means you need to come up with an extremely contrived reason why Luke left her in the desert for 20 years by herself despite being the most powerful jedi in the galaxy who could sense her easily, AND you need to explain why no one in the galaxy including his sister seems to know he has a kid, or even a relationship in the first place.


Could you come up with a scenario where she's his? yeah sure. But it would be a lot more nonsense than being someone down obi-wan's family tree.

Both leave a lot to explain for sure. I'm really interested to see if they can pull this off well.

 

[Manmademan]

It would be way less stupid than having her be a grandchild of Obi-Wan Kenobi. For better or worse, Anakin breaks the Jedi Code in the prequels by getting married and having kids. Obi-Wan tells him he will be expelled from the Jedi Order for going back for Padme on Geonosis because he cares about her. To suddenly give Obi-Wan a family and kids would be super-hypocritical and come out of nowhere for him at least within the films. Obi-Wan (and Yoda) represented the orthodox way of thinking for the old Jedi Order. I'd take her being a random over a Kenobi. And what does it contribute to the story anyway? Nothing.

as someone else pointed out, Obi Wan had a relationship with a woman during the clone wars/rebels tv series. That doesn't break canon or character at all- and keep in mind that the Jedi as an order were pretty much done after episode III. Obi-Wan gave up his name and adopted an alias to live in the desert, Yoda fled to a swamp planet. "code" is probably secondary at that point when the concept of "jedi" entirely is on life support.

What does it contribute to the story? Because of the midichlorians business you need some kind of rationale to explain why an UNUSUALLY powerful jedi shows up out of nowhere in the form of Rey. Kylo Ren is not only a skywalker, he's a skywalker trained by luke. Despite this Rey is strong enough to resist and reject his mind control completely untrained, and beat him in a lightsaber duel.

There is exactly ONE Jedi in the galaxy that was powerful enough to beat down Anakin (potentially the strongest jedi that existed at that time) in his prime, and that Jedi was Obi Wan.

You don't know that Luke could sense Rey if she was alive. Vader couldn't sense he had living kids for twenty years. Or that Leia standing in front of him was his own daughter. The easiest explanation is abducted by Snoke.

Vader had no reason to believe he had kids. He was told they were dead. This presumably isn't the case for Luke.

 

[MoeDabs]

as someone else pointed out, Obi Wan had a relationship with a woman during the clone wars/rebels tv series. That doesn't break canon or character at all- and keep in mind that the Jedi as an order were pretty much done after episode III. Obi-Wan gave up his name and adopted an alias to live in the desert, Yoda fled to a swamp planet. "code" is probably secondary at that point when the concept of "jedi" entirely is on life support.

What does it contribute to the story? Because of the midichlorians business you need some kind of rationale to explain why an UNUSUALLY powerful jedi shows up out of nowhere in the form of Rey. Kylo Ren is not only a skywalker, he's a skywalker trained by luke. Despite this Rey is strong enough to resist and reject his mind control completely untrained, and beat him in a lightsaber duel.

There is exactly ONE Jedi in the galaxy that was powerful enough to beat down Anakin (potentially the strongest jedi that existed at that time) in his prime, and that Jedi was Obi Wan.




Vader had no reason to believe he had kids. He was told they were dead. This presumably isn't the case for Luke.

Rey is created from Luke's right hand. They both start EP7 living alone. Then at the end his right hand returns his lightsaber. Boom. Star Wars.

 

[Davide]

as someone else pointed out, Obi Wan had a relationship with a woman during the clone wars/rebels tv series. That doesn't break canon or character at all- and keep in mind that the Jedi as an order were pretty much done after episode III. Obi-Wan gave up his name and adopted an alias to live in the desert, Yoda fled to a swamp planet. "code" is probably secondary at that point when the concept of "jedi" entirely is on life support.

What does it contribute to the story? Because of the midichlorians business you need some kind of rationale to explain why an UNUSUALLY powerful jedi shows up out of nowhere in the form of Rey. Kylo Ren is not only a skywalker, he's a skywalker trained by luke. Despite this Rey is strong enough to resist and reject his mind control completely untrained, and beat him in a lightsaber duel.

There is exactly ONE Jedi in the galaxy that was powerful enough to beat down Anakin (potentially the strongest jedi that existed at that time) in his prime, and that Jedi was Obi Wan.

Vader had no reason to believe he had kids. He was told they were dead. This presumably isn't the case for Luke.

And I really hope that wouldn't carry over to the films. It really doesn't seem in character to me with what we see of him in all the films. I think you can agree that other characters too, like Anakin, act pretty-out-of-character in the show as well for better or worse. And most of the audience watching these films has no idea about Satine or anything about that, so it would really come out of nowhere for them.

I agree with that idea, that Rey shouldn't have been able to defeat him unless if she descends from a very strong Jedi, I just don't think it works well for Kenobi. Technically Luke was just as strong as Anakin, so if Rey was a Skywalker it would satisfy this principle set up even more so.

And Rey Kenobi really doesn't contribute to the story like Rey Skywalker would. If Rey is a Skywalker it means a very different relationship with Luke, her father, and Kylo too would be family. They'd both be fighting over who is the heir to the Skywalker legacy. I really don't want want Kylo Ren to be all that's left of the line. Rey Kenobi adds nothing beyond, oh that's cool.

 

[Surfinn]

Nah.

having her be Luke's means you need to come up with an extremely contrived reason why Luke left her in the desert for 20 years by herself despite being the most powerful jedi in the galaxy who could sense her easily, AND you need to explain why no one in the galaxy including his sister seems to know he has a kid, or even a relationship in the first place.


Could you come up with a scenario where she's his? yeah sure. But it would be a lot more nonsense than being someone down obi-wan's family tree.

Considering they've got two more films to tell this story, I really don't think it needs to be contrived. But I'm still in the camp of "Luke didn't drop her off himself".

 

[Manmademan]

And I really hope that wouldn't carry over to the films. It really doesn't seem in character to me with what we see of him in all the films. I think you can agree that other characters too, like Anakin, act pretty-out-of-character in the show as well for better or worse. And most of the audience watching these films has no idea about Satine or anything about that, so it would really come out of nowhere for them.

I agree with that idea, that Rey shouldn't have been able to defeat him unless if she descends from a very strong Jedi, I just don't think it works well for Kenobi. Technically Luke was just as strong as Anakin, so if Rey was a Skywalker it would satisfy this principle set up even more so.

And Rey Kenobi really doesn't contribute to the story like Rey Skywalker would. If Rey is a Skywalker it means a very different relationship with Luke, her father, and Kylo too would be family. They'd both be fighting over who is the heir to the Skywalker legacy. I really don't want want Kylo Ren to be all that's left of the line. Rey Kenobi adds nothing beyond, oh that's cool.

on the contrary, Kylo Ren being all that's left of the skywalker line implies some kind of stakes involving his inevitable redemption and turning towards the light side of the force.

If Rey is also a skywalker, then there's no real need for Kylo to be redeemed. He gets killed off, so what, the line continues with Rey.

As for a "very different relationship", the kenobi/skywalker relationship has been a strong thread through all three films. continuing it in some form for the new trilogy where kenobi is the student and skywalker is the master to embark on a mission to redeem a rogue skywalker (that actually succeeds!) would be appropriate, I think.

Considering they've got two more films to tell this story, I really don't think it needs to be contrived. But I'm still in the camp of "Luke didn't drop her off himself".

Then who did? no one seems to mention anything about Luke being married or having a relationship- but there's plenty about his jedi school.

And again- unless Luke himself doesn't know he has a daughter (which would be pushing it, really) there's no reason to leave her completely alone on Jakku to begin with. Hell, he was able to hide himself away so well that literally no one could find him for at least a decade. And being as powerful as he is, Sensing his own daughter should be trivial.

 

[Davide]

on the contrary, Kylo Ren being all that's left of the skywalker line implies some kind of stakes involving his inevitable redemption and turning towards the light side of the force.

If Rey is also a skywalker, then there's no real need for Kylo to be redeemed. He gets killed off, so what, the line continues with Rey.

As for a "very different relationship", the kenobi/skywalker relationship has been a strong thread through all three films. continuing it in some form for the new trilogy where kenobi is the student and skywalker is the master to take down a rogue skywalker (that actually succeeds!) would be appropriate, I think.

I don't want it to feel like Kylo has to be redeemed. That's boring for me. If Rey is a Skywalker too, the stakes feel higher because it actually feels like Kylo may die or be irredeemable.

And after killing Han I don't even particularly want to see him redeemed.

Adding to my point before about Obi-Wan representing the Jedi orthodox way of thinking: the Jedi weren't allowed to love. Obi-Wan and Yoda believe this idea all the way up to VI, it takes Luke to prove them wrong. Anakin's love was one that was selfish, because he couldn't stand losing Padme and was willing to kill to stop her death. But by fearing any kind of attachment, the Jedi were wrong in not allowing love at all - it's because of Luke's love for his father that he sees the good in him, unlike Obi-Wan and Yoda. They think he's irredeemable, representing the old orthodox Jedi way of thinking. They didn't even want Luke to know Vader was his father because they would it would make Luke weaker, even lying to him about it. But it's ultimately Anakin's love for his son that redeems him and results in the death of the Emperor. So to suddenly give Obi-Wan a family/kid of his own would seem really, really wrong to me. It should be Luke who decided that Jedi should be allowed to love and had a child of his own.

 

[Surfinn]

on the contrary, Kylo Ren being all that's left of the skywalker line implies some kind of stakes involving his inevitable redemption and turning towards the light side of the force.

I doubt it's happening after having murdered his father. I think this is just the beginning of his destructive path into the dark side.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I doubt it's happening after having murdered his father. I think this is just the beginning of his destructive path into the dark side.

Like when Vader killed his wife?

 

[Lifejumper]

Everybody is going to be so disapointed when she turns out to be a nobody.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

It would be way less stupid than having her be a grandchild of Obi-Wan Kenobi. For better or worse, Anakin breaks the Jedi Code in the prequels by getting married and having kids. Obi-Wan tells him he will be expelled from the Jedi Order for going back for Padme on Geonosis because he cares about her. To suddenly give Obi-Wan a family and kids would be super-hypocritical and come out of nowhere for him at least within the films. Obi-Wan (and Yoda) represented the orthodox way of thinking for the old Jedi Order. I'd take her being a random over a Kenobi. And what does it contribute to the story anyway? Nothing.

You don't know that Luke could sense Rey if she was alive. Vader couldn't sense he had living kids for twenty years. Or that Leia standing in front of him was his own daughter. The easiest explanation is abducted by Snoke.

As I pointed out Obi-Wan and Satine had history long before the Clone Wars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y-23aBeWRY
He even says if she asked he would have left the Jedi Order for her.

The Rey thing could be pushing it but it seriously isn't ridiculous to believe they could have had a kid that was taken away do to their circumstances.

Its going to be explained either way and its pretty much the same regardless unless she is a random.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Rey's vision is a mess. There is no indication that it's about her other than the part where she's left on the planet. The part where Kylo kills someone with his buddies might not involve Rey at all but someone else considering she would have been too old by then, and I would argue it is showing us how Kylo originally got Luke's saber, which he supposedly did and Maz stole it from him later. Also as shown before he appears to have Obi-Wan's saber too, so maybe he got both there.

As far as we know, no one had light sabers other than the ones that already existed in the OT, and Kylo even appears to have tried to make his own after leaving Luke, so it doesn't look like Luke had anyone make new ones.

 

[Surfinn]

Like when Vader killed his wife?

Not even remotely comparable, he didn't intend to do it and howled out "NOOOO" when he was informed of her death.

In fact the only reason why he became Vader in the first place was because he was trying to save her from that very fate.

 

[Davide]

As I pointed out Obi-Wan and Satine had history long before the Clone Wars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y-23aBeWRY
He even says if she asked he would have left the Jedi Order for her.

Man, that's really stupid.

I'm glad that wasn't in any of the films.

 

[Manmademan]

I don't want it to feel like Kylo has to be redeemed. That's boring for me. If Rey is a Skywalker too, the stakes feel higher because it actually feels like Kylo may die or be irredeemable.

And after killing Han I don't even particularly want to see him redeemed.

come on man, be realistic. This one is being telegraphed a mile away. Kylo hasn't fully given in to the dark side and will eventually be brought back. Thinking otherwise is just ignoring the bright flashing signs disney has all over the place. Even Han and Leia were doing all they could to bring him back after he murdered all those people at Luke's school. They forgave him, they weren't trying to kill him.

Adding to my point before about Obi-Wan representing the Jedi orthodox way of thinking: the Jedi weren't allowed to love. Obi-Wan and Yoda believe this idea all the way up to VI, it takes Luke to prove them wrong. Anakin's love was one that was selfish, because he couldn't stand losing Padme and was willing to kill to stop her death. But by fearing any kind of attachment, the Jedi were wrong in not allowing love at all - it's because of Luke's love for his father that he sees the good in him, unlike Obi-Wan and Yoda. They think he's irredeemable, representing the old orthodox Jedi way of thinking. They didn't even want Luke to know Vader was his father because they would it would make Luke weaker, even lying to him about it. But it's ultimately Anakin's love for his son that redeems him and results in the death of the Emperor. So to suddenly give Obi-Wan a family/kid of his own would seem really, really wrong to me. It should be Luke who decided that Jedi should be allowed to love and had a child of his own.

and again- I think the point is that adhering so strictly to Jedi orthodoxy regarding relationships caused the fall of anakin in the first place, and Obi Wan and Yoda know this. There's a lot about the Jedi in episodes IV-VI and how to be one for luke in the original trilogy- avoiding love and relationships never came up at all from Obi Wan OR Yoda. I think that's telling.

I doubt it's happening after having murdered his father. I think this is just the beginning of his destructive path into the dark side.

As I said, Kylo murdered a lot more people before Han. it's the reason Luke ran off into hiding in the first place. Despite this Han and Leia were still going the path of forgiveness, not revenge.

 

[frontieruk]

QUOTE=Poor GRIMES;227895127]Lightsaber Crystals call out to their wielder regardless of their lineage. Ahsoka Tano's white crystal lightsabers were originally part of one of the Inquisitor's lightsabers, but they chose her as their wielder. This was revealed in Ahsoka's solo novel, all canon to the current SW universe.[/QUOTE]

Not everyone reads the books, though there will be a bigger cross over than other series, the choice of Maz's words, in the handing of the lightsaber to Rey and in the teaser where they recycle Luke's lines about the force from RotJ just realigning the line about you have it to the end with the scene of maz handing Rey the lightsaber, adds weight to the implication that Rey is Luke's daughter.

I think there was a specific reason why they called Ewan in to record that line otherwise they would have just spliced/reused the same line from ANH.

Yeah it was a nod to the fans. Gotchaye explains better why the whole Obi thing is just wasted screen time.

 

[Surfinn]

As I said, Kylo murdered a lot more people before Han. it's the reason Luke ran off into hiding in the first place. Despite this Han and Leia were still going the path of forgiveness, not revenge.

We still don't have the details on what exactly happened at the academy and the context of those deaths. Plus there's a huge difference between killing other Jedi and brutally murdering your defenseless father who's trying to win you back over with his love.

That's irredeemable, IMO.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Man, that's really stupid.

Why?

 

[Gotchaye]

Like when Vader killed his wife?

If we're talking about a Ren redemption story then they've got a lot of reason to make Rey Luke's kid, or even Leia's if they can explain it. What personal relationship is going to be important to his redemption? His father's gone in-story and Carrie Fisher can't film any more scenes. I think you'd really want to have set up Rey as his sister to sell this, and if the original plan was to lean on Leia for it it may still be worth the awkwardness of explaining why Leia and Han ditched Rey and didn't seem to be aware that they had a kid on Jakku.

Also it's pretty important that in the actual movies people were watching where Vader is introduced as a bad guy and is then redeemed through his love for his son, we're not even told he killed his wife. Vader's two big personal acts of evil in the OT were killing Obi-Wan (who knew what he was getting into and allowed it to happen, and didn't really die 100%) and supposedly killing Anakin Skywalker.

 

[Surfinn]

If we're talking about a Ren redemption story then they've got a lot of reason to make Rey Luke's kid, or even Leia's if they can explain it. What personal relationship is going to be important to his redemption? His father's gone in-story and Carrie Fisher can't film any more scenes.

Also it's pretty important that in the actual movies people were watching where Vader is introduced as a bad guy and is then redeemed through his love for his son, we're not even told he killed his wife. Vader's two big personal acts of evil in the OT were killing Obi-Wan (who knew what he was getting into and allowed it to happen, and didn't really die 100%) and supposedly killing Anakin Skywalker.

And even Obi-Wan's death was more of a sacrifice that Vader knew he was making before it happened. "Escape is not his plan. I must face him, alone."

Yeah it was a nod to the fans. Gotchaye explains better why the whole Obi thing is just wasted screen time.

That's an interesting assumption. Unless I missed an official confirmation that explains it was included as a nod to fans?

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Man, that's really stupid.

I'm glad that wasn't in any of the films.

He's talking about when he was younger.
its pretty similar to Anakin and Padme however they never see each other again until a ways into the Clone Wars.

 

[Davide]

come on man, be realistic. This one is being telegraphed a mile away. Kylo hasn't fully given in to the dark side and will eventually be brought back. Thinking otherwise is just ignoring the bright flashing signs disney has all over the place. Even Han and Leia were doing all they could to bring him back after he murdered all those people at Luke's school. They forgave him, they weren't trying to kill him.

and again- I think the point is that adhering so strictly to Jedi orthodoxy regarding relationships caused the fall of anakin in the first place, and Obi Wan and Yoda know this. There's a lot about the Jedi in episodes IV-VI and how to be one for luke in the original trilogy- avoiding love and relationships never came up at all from Obi Wan OR Yoda. I think that's telling.

I do expect Kylo to be redeemed, but I want it to feel like he could actually die like Jacen Solo did, too.

Obi-Wan certainly seemed to want Luke to avoid having any kind of relationship with his father - or his sister either. Yoda wanted Luke to let go of his attachments for his friends. It doesn't feel like things have changed much. Although Yoda did tell Luke the Force was strong in his family and to pass on what he learned...making Luke decided Rey to train Rey Skywalker seeming to be a natural continuation. He didn't mention anything about training Kenobi's kids.

 

[Einchy]

Rey being Luke's daughter and Kenobi's granddaughter would make me so happy.

 

[Manmademan]

We still don't have the details on what happened at the academy and the context of those deaths. Plus there's a huge difference between killing other Jedi and brutally murdering your defenseless father who's trying to win you back over with his love.

That's irredeemable, IMO.

not really, because it's implied Luke was running a school. Those were kids and adolescents, not grown men.

Kylo then carved a bloody swath across the galaxy as part of the first order. Han dying is tragic and all, but it's clear that Leia and Han are aware that he's been influenced by the dark side (presumably Snoke) since birth, and know the behavior isn't entirely his choice.

”He knew our child would be strong with the Force. That he was born with equal potential for good or evil."

”You knew this from the beginning? Why didn't you tell me?"

She sighed. ”Many reasons. I was hoping that I was wrong, that it wasn't true. I hoped I could sway him, turn him away from the dark side, without having to involve you." A small smile appeared. ”You had— you have— wonderful qualities, Han, but patience and understanding were never among them. I was afraid that your reactions would only drive him farther to the dark side. I thought I could shield him from Snoke's influence and you from what was happening."

Her voice dropped. ”It's clear now that I was wrong. Whether your involvement would have made a difference, we'll never know."

He had trouble believing what he was hearing. ”So Snoke was watching our son."

”Always," she told him. ”From the shadows, in the beginning, even before I realized what was happening, he was manipulating everything, pulling our son toward the dark side. But nothing's impossible, Han. Not even now, at this late time. I have this feeling that if anyone can save him— it's you."

Kylo had been born with equal potential for good and evil within the force since birth, and Snoke had been exploiting that for 30(?) years. He's not just a petulant teenager.

 

[WrenchNinja]

How is it an overcomplication,
Obi-Wan is really the only one that matters.

Satine is irrelevant (unless they want to do some Mandalore shit.)
Satine however makes Obi-Wan's side in all this better.

there is fifty years between revenge and force awakens

like fucking what, obi wan is definitely not the only thing that matters here. there's a couple of steps missing

Where is all this "secret kid of a secret kid" stuff coming from? I feel like people who don't like the idea are over complicating it.

Obi Wan has had romance in his storyline before. All it would need to be is Satine, discovering she's pregnant decides not to tell Obi Wan. Their lives already have them barely in contact with each other and with Obi Wan's decision to watch over Luke as he's raised, he wouldn't look for her either.

Satine's child would be raised openly as her child. The kid grows to be an adult and has their own relationship and child. That child is Rey.

None of it is secret secret hush hush like the Skywalker twins. It's just not made known to Obi Wan and Satine doesn't talk about who her child's father is.

Doesn't even have to be Satine, she's just conveinent because the nature of her relationship with Obi Wan leans towards believeably not telling him.

you have immediately over complicated things bringing up a story line and relationship from a cartoon that you cant count on your audience to have watched or know of and then added another kid with another kid to have rey

like are you reading the shit you're typing

 

[Davide]

you have immediately over complicated things bringing up a story line and relationship from a cartoon that you cant count on your audience to have watched or know of and then added another kid with another kid to have rey

like are you reading the shit you're typing

And it's probably 1% of the audience.