The only people who know about the room switch trick are Makoto and Sayaka. With that in mind, Sayaka only needed to switch the name plates after the murder, and suspicion would immediately fall on Makoto. Proving that he didn't do it would be difficult without evidence and i'm sure Makoto would be completely disoriented after the fact, and blindly trust in Sayaka (until Kyoko tells him to get his shit together?)
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DanganRonpa: Trigger Happy Havoc Spoiler Thread - Farewell, spoiler tags of despair!
- Thread starter SolarKnight
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ScraftyDevil
Banned
My headcanon is the scenario in which Hiro or Hifumi kill Chihiro in Chapter 2 instead of Mondo because that's the scenario that makes me cry less.
Hours Left
Member
That's fine, it's not like the solution is that creative anyway.
Just move it to Hiro's room and have a fake note inviting Makoto there. (They could even work in Hiro's neat handwriting in there. It could be used by Sayaka as evidence against Makoto, because no one would believe Hiro's writing is that pretty.)
That would also give a little throwback at the end of the game when they find Hiro's old notebook. A sad reminder.
I agree that they were probably trying to set up some parallels to the assistant trope in these types of games/stories, it's just that she had very little time to actually demonstrate any of that. Ironically, her being the killer, instead of the killed, would of given them more of an opportunity to turn that trope on its head.
dakkumauji
Member
It just means the player figures out who's the murderer once the body is discovered not 15 minutes later when they go back there to reexamine the body.
Hours Left
Member
That's probably one of the biggest problems with this game. The murderers in every case are all SUPER apparent, right off the bat.It just means the player figures out who's the murderer once the body is discovered not 15 minutes later when they go back there to reexamine the body.
I hope DR2 is more surprising in that regard.
It certainly was one of the weaker points. At least in regards to during the investo
Though, chapter 2 threw me for a loop in terms of the actual murderer (everything else was quite clear, besides that one detail).
First thing I did in the investigation was talk to Mondo. Literally the first word out of his mouth was referring to Chihiro as a "dude".
Then you find out the crime scene had been switched and actually took place in the boys' locker room... I thought it was obvious.
Hours Left
Member
When Mondo called Chihiro "dude" early on I was like "Oh..."
;_;
(Not sad that Chihiro was a guy, sad that Mondo was the murder.)
BTW, how was than handled in the Japanese version? Did Mondo refer to Chihiro as a guy directly then too? I see how they could get away with it in the English version, since "guy" can be gender neutral in a casual sense.
Every case in the Danganronpa series gives you this one small hint at who the culprit is, unless you're Leon, in which case the game spells it out in blood.
For case 2 it's Mondo referring to Chihiro as "dude."
For case 3 it's Celete's slip of the tongue about "those guys"
For case 4 it's the fact that the cup is on top of the glass
For case 2 it's Mondo referring to Chihiro as "dude."
For case 3 it's Celete's slip of the tongue about "those guys"
For case 4 it's the fact that the cup is on top of the glass
Well, that was the only real hint, and it was an easy thing to miss. Especially at the point in the game where almost all important details are shoved in your face, lol.
It wasn't excessively apparent, but the opportunity to make the connection was there, I suppose.
dakkumauji
Member
Yeah, the 2nd case was pretty subtle in revealing who was the murderer. Well besides knowing it couldn't have been Togami because he was playing too hard on that one.
3 was easy cause it was the stupidest plan ever.
3 was easy cause it was the stupidest plan ever.
Hours Left
Member
Add to that the scene between Mondo and Taka at the beginning of the chapter. If a character is suddenly getting extra attention, they will almost certainly be involved in the upcoming murder.
Sayaka: "Let's get a weapon for self defense!"
Mondo: "Let's have a bro-off in the sauna. I'm not taking my clothes off!"
Celeste: "Hey Hifumi, I loathe you with every fiber of my being, but can I please have your gaudy camera? ALSO MAKE ME TEA CORRECTLY YOU FAT PIG."
Sakura: "Please meet me at this suspicious location so we can 'end' things."
For case 3, there were so many other giveaways that made it obvious. Mostly Celeste's behavior in general. Her insistence on being an obstacle to the trial only made it more obvious.
I thought case 4 became relatively clear at two points. One, the poison combined with the situation you found Sakura in seemed to lead to the correct conclusion. It was basically confirmed when they talked about Sakura saying she wanted to end it. Forget if that was in the trial or before.
That's not the strongest argument. More people than them got focused on. In Chapter 2 alone, Taka, Toko, and Byakuya also got a lot of focus before the murder.
It just means the player figures out who's the murderer once the body is discovered not 15 minutes later when they go back there to reexamine the body.
Right, but the surprising part about trial 1 isn't that Leon is the killer, it's that Sayaka set it up to frame you.
dakkumauji
Member
Anyone suddenly getting character development means they are going to die or kill someone ;_;
Hours Left
Member
That was obvious from the moment she asked to switch rooms.
Saving the reveal till near the end of the trial would of been more satisfying IMO.
And they were all involved heavily in that case. It's obviously not a perfect formula, but it's a strong indicator, that when viewed along other facts, make things quite obvious.
Mondo was the most surprising, but he wasn't a real surprise.
IMO Mondo calling Chihiro a dude and Celeste suddenly being the key player in every decision in the Robo Justice events and acting incredibly unusual aren't small hints, they were obvious giveaways... and then the idea of a Robo Justice suit points so obviously to Hifumi it sounds more like a setup.
It's kinda hard to get away from the "Sayaka is dropping concussive hints that she's going to screw you over" from the start if you're a suspicious kind of player, huh
even when she's being genuine she's being super transparent
I won't deny that. It very well creates a pool of possible suspects, but I wouldn't use it in court beyond that.
Hours Left
Member
"You'll always stand with me, right Makoto?!?!? NO MATTER WHAT?????!!!!!"It's kinda hard to get away from the "Sayaka is dropping concussive hints that she's going to screw you over" from the start if you're a suspicious kind of player, huh
even when she's being genuine she's being super transparent
O_O
Good thing this isn't a real courtroom then.
It's also important to recognize, that anyone convicted early in every trial never turns out to be the killer.
The main problem is really that there's just no opportunity for real buildup because someone has to get offed. It's not like, if, say, Maya were to suddenly and irreversably try and screw over Phoenix, because you're introduced so abruptly and you just kind of have to take Makoto's word for it that Sayaka is totes sweet brah.
And that could easily be taken as a person simply trying to reaffirm a stable state of mind after being really, really shaken up. Its not so cut and clear.
Oh, I'm more talking about pre-trial. Trials do a lovely job of spelling it out to you even well before they intend to spell it out to you.Good thing this isn't a real courtroom then.
It's also important to recognize, that anyone convicted early in every trial never turns out to be the killer.
If SDR2 does a better job of making you actually sit back and figure things out, then it'll be a huge improvement (then again, I also regret not going mean difficulty on logic).
dakkumauji
Member
Good thing this isn't a real courtroom then.
It's also important to recognize, that anyone convicted early in every trial never turns out to be the killer.
Which is a shame cause I wouldn't have mind seeing Togami being the murderer in Chapter 2.
Hours Left
Member
That's why I think Hiro would of been a great candidate for the first victim. He survives the real game, but he still had almost no presence beyond being annoyingly dumb.
Having him try to rally everyone to give peace a chance at the beginning would of been more character development than he got the whole game through. And that would of given us more time to see Makoto and Sayaka to interact, and we, the players, could of seen Sayaka's cracks starting to really form in person, as opposed to through the trial that ends up with a throwaway killer. (Hi Leon!)
It could, but by that point Sayaka had already admitted to doing bad things to get to the top of her profession. She was already gone.
"(sniff) You mean, that, Makoto? You'll do anything to help me escape?"
Hours Left
Member
Cool.
Though I'll miss Kyoko rolling her eyes, waiting to pimp slap everyone with the real info.
I was actually pretty surprised with the murder in cases 2 and 4. All of that genocide Jack stuff in case 2 really threw me off. And case 4 was surprising by virtue of it being a suicide. (Spoilers for the entire Ace Attorney series)
Cases 3 and 5/6 weren't super obvious to me either, though I did guess correctly (I assumed that the dead body was really the body of the person that we thought was Junko, and that the mastermind was really either Mukuro or Junko or both of them, since I ruled everything else out and a user on another forum had a picture of Junko during her execution as his avatar).
Case 1 was super obvious though. The writing on the wall gave it away. But overall I think I was more surprised with the outcome in DR's cases than the ones in Dual Destinies.i
Also, Mondo calling Chihiro a dude didn't make me think that he's male, since I've heard several people call women "dudes" before >_>.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKYXmjfQY4U
I thought that could be the case but there has never been a suicide in an Ace Attorney case before so I tend to think it's less likely.
Case 1 was super obvious though. The writing on the wall gave it away. But overall I think I was more surprised with the outcome in DR's cases than the ones in Dual Destinies.i
Also, Mondo calling Chihiro a dude didn't make me think that he's male, since I've heard several people call women "dudes" before >_>.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKYXmjfQY4U
Game of the Year, then.
Hours Left
Member
What about the fact that Chihiro refused to train with Sakura and Hina, but wanted to be stronger and was always looking for positive reinforcement from the guys, especially Mondo?
The whole thing about him being more comfortable around guys gave the trap twist away pretty clearly, but that was well after the "dude" comment. So the connection between that plot twist and Mondo would not have been made.
Hours Left
Member
It was referenced before. Chihiro didn't take Sakura up on her offer when she first mentioned it, and he was shown looking for validation from Mondo when he was still alive.
As soon as Mondo called him dude, it was all perfectly clear to me. I already had my suspicions long before the trial.
Eh. That isn't as strongly referenced there as you are suggesting.
Hours Left
Member
Well, it was referenced strongly enough for me.
As I said previously, Chapter 2 has the most surprising solution, comparatively, but it wasn't really a surprise in a general sense IMO.
But I also happen to play a lot of mystery games and just love mysteries in general. I'm always on alert for clues when playing.
dakkumauji
Member
I'm just being a bit argumentative today. I get where you're coming from.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Yeah, the trials generally felt like they were less about "whodunnit" and more about "how am I gonna pin this shit on them?" I looked forward to the inevitable drama that would unfold more than anything, and was never disappointed.
I found it a bit.....odd, but I figured at first that it could have been part of her character. Like, maybe she was just shy around girls due to a traumatic experience or something. During the trial I basically thought about that and came to the conclusion that Chihiro was a dude, but I also had no idea that Mondo was the killer because I thought it had to either be Toko or Byakuya due to the Genocide Jack stuff.
It was nice looking on Chihiro's Pixiv tag and seeing so much more fanart! Happy birthday to my favorite Danganronpa character!
As for the cases, Sakura's actually really surprised me. I honestly didn't see it coming. The cases in SDR2 are much trickier, though. Some of them are nothing less than pure evil!
You know, I didn't really care that Monokuma woke up at the end of the game, but now that I think about it, that is really odd.
I'm guessing there is no real explanation for this in SDR2, but I'm going to guess that Monokuma has Junko's personality or something using the AI program that Chihiro made on that laptop. Junko may have copied it or something and modified it to match her personality or the personality she used for Monokuma.
I'm guessing there is no real explanation for this in SDR2, but I'm going to guess that Monokuma has Junko's personality or something using the AI program that Chihiro made on that laptop. Junko may have copied it or something and modified it to match her personality or the personality she used for Monokuma.
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